Re: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

[Guest guest]

Someone I knows practices a form of Reiki, and worked on me. He never touched

me, but his hands were so hot that even with my eyes closed I could feel where

his hands were.

 

My pain went away for five days, with no pain medication what so ever. He

doesn't live in

my state, let alone anywhere near me but if he did I would certainly want him to

work on me.

 

I don't know where you got this, or how old it is, but it's not accurate at all.

Even modern

day medicine has recognized the mind body connection and energetic healing.

 

, when new information becomes available, I always keep an open mind.

Holding on to traditional knowledge would have kept us thinking the earth was

flat.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 8:54 AM

>

> No; and [to illustrate the logical fallacy]* I never ate a $#!t

> sandwich.  Nor will I ever.

>

> Regards,

>

>

> *The logical fallacy of saying, " If you never tried it then you don't

> know " contains the false assumption that there are not other ways of

> knowing besides trying something.  As a matter of fact there are

> multiple ways.  There are numerous things that it is patently unwise to

> try for oneself.

> .

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

When " new information " [in this case centuries old, back to the leeches

and blood letting days or earlier] becomes available I look for

contradictions with known facts. When these are available in abundance

and when the proposed methods that the process is supposed to utilize do

not exist then it becomes highly suspect.

With Google you have an easy way to know the real facts about any quack

process so widely known.

Quack processes DO sometimes produce [or seem to produce] positive

results. The number of patients in credible research projects on such

processes who get positive results will be from chance or placebo.

The process you're supporting goes back almost to the time some people

still thought the earth was flat. I don't know why you refer to it as

" new information " .

Luck,

..

..

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20REIKE%2E%20%20WAS%3A%20Another%\

20Day%20Another%20Doctor>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:46 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> Someone I knows practices a form of Reiki, and worked on me. He never

> touched me, but his hands were so hot that even with my eyes closed I

> could feel where his hands were.

>

> My pain went away for five days, with no pain medication what so ever.

> He doesn't live in

> my state, let alone anywhere near me but if he did I would certainly

> want him to work on me.

>

> I don't know where you got this, or how old it is, but it's not

> accurate at all. Even modern

> day medicine has recognized the mind body connection and energetic

> healing.

>

> , when new information becomes available, I always keep an open

> mind. Holding on to traditional knowledge would have kept us thinking

> the earth was flat.

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 10:28 AM

>

> My phrase " unwise to try it " only referred to my logical argument, not

> to Reiki.

>

> As for what it is, it wears all the clothes of the typical quack;

> although I don't doubt the benefits of the basic massage functions.

> However, when you start sending something that does not exist over long

> distances and claiming factual results you've gone over the line.

>

> Here's information that perhaps can to some extent counteract the

> foolish hype:

> .

> .

> >

> > *Reiki*

> >

> > The word, *Reiki*, is of Japanese origin. Rei means " universal spirit,

> > unlimited, " and ki refers to the " life force " or " energy. " Proponents

> > credit a Dr. Mikao Usui with " re-discovering " *Reiki* some time around

> > 1846 as part of his search of " sacred texts. "

> >

> > It is clear from proponents' descriptions that *Reiki* is but a

> > variation of other healing superstitions such as " pranic healing "

> > (ritual of ancient fertility religion, Wicca ), qigong (based upon

> > traditional Chinese medicine), Therapeutic Touch (a pseudomedical

> > practice done by 20th Century American nurses), and unnamed shamanic

> > healing practices that involve hand-waving, or laying-on-of-

> hands,

> > healing rituals. Such rituals are magical practices that purport to

> > manipulate unseen " spiritual " forces.

> >

> > First degree *Reiki* practitioners learn to treat through a series of

> > 12 specific hand positions placed gently on the body. This allegedly

> > facilitates the flow of *Reiki* energy through the practitioner, said

> > to be manifested by a heightened feeling of warmth in the hands. The

> > practitioner is said to merely serve as a conduit for the *Reiki*

> > energy. A second degree *Reiki* practitioner allegedly " learns to send

> > *Reiki* over distance through the use of special symbols which involve

> > the opening up to the experience of the energy and listening to one's

> > inner voice. " The third level is *Reiki* Master, a process lasting a

> > year or more while working as an apprentice with another *Reiki*

> > Master. During this time the apprentice learns to embody the energy

> > and is then able to teach *Reiki* to others. "

> >

> > There is no evidence that clinical *Reiki*'s effects are due to

> > anything other than suggestion, or that they are superior to massage

> > or any other healing ritual. *Reiki*'s metaphysical beliefs may be in

> > conflict with an individual patient's religious beliefs. Full

> > disclosure of the belief system should precede its use in any setting.

> > An investigation of proponent literature casts serious doubt as to

> > whether *Reiki* practitioners can be trusted with such full

> > disclosure. *Reiki* literature presents misinformation as fact, and

> > instructs practitioners on how to skirt the law in order to protect

> > themselves from regulation and accountability.

> >

> .

> .

> One of the harms of things that just don't work are that they may

> encourage you to not get treatment for something that can be fatal

> without treatment. Your actual results [other than the benefits of any

> massage] may be as great as the typical chance or placebo results in

> credible research, but not higher.

>

> Regards,

>

> .

[Guest guest]

New information as I used it, referred to the United States which has been late

in embracing these old methods. Just because something isn't allopathic medicine

doesn't mean is quackery.

 

They are now suing the makers of the so called bone restoration drugs because

they have found them to be actually causing bone fractures of the long bones in

the leg. It obviously was quackery, even though it was allopathic.

 

Rockefeller started the whole allopathic medical system as it stands today, from

what would be taught in medical schools, to the drug companies, to the doctors'

practices to medical insurance.

It's all there on Google if you want look it up. The entire system was set up to

make MONEY, not to help patients.

 

 Your reverence of allopathic medicine to the exclusion of everything else is

amazing to me. You are an intelligent person, and I'm sure you realize that

other medical systems are practiced around the world and are healing

populations.

 

There is one area that I will agree with you, which is surgery. I think our

surgeons are the most qualified and have the best equipment in the world. The

rest of it, not so much.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 10:28 AM

>

> My phrase " unwise to try it " only referred to my logical argument, not

> to Reiki.

>

> As for what it is, it wears all the clothes of the typical quack;

> although I don't doubt the benefits of the basic massage functions.

> However, when you start sending something that does not exist over long

> distances and claiming factual results you've gone over the line.

>

> Here's information that perhaps can to some extent counteract the

> foolish hype:

> .

> .

> >

> > *Reiki*

> >

> > The word, *Reiki*, is of Japanese origin. Rei means " universal spirit,

> > unlimited, " and ki refers to the " life force " or " energy. " Proponents

> > credit a Dr. Mikao Usui with " re-discovering " *Reiki* some time around

> > 1846 as part of his search of " sacred texts. "

> >

> > It is clear from proponents' descriptions that *Reiki* is but a

> > variation of other healing superstitions such as " pranic healing "

> > (ritual of ancient fertility religion, Wicca ), qigong (based upon

> > traditional Chinese medicine), Therapeutic Touch (a pseudomedical

> > practice done by 20th Century American nurses), and unnamed shamanic

> > healing practices that involve hand-waving, or laying-on-of-

> hands,

> > healing rituals. Such rituals are magical practices that purport to

> > manipulate unseen " spiritual " forces.

> >

> > First degree *Reiki* practitioners learn to treat through a series of

> > 12 specific hand positions placed gently on the body. This allegedly

> > facilitates the flow of *Reiki* energy through the practitioner, said

> > to be manifested by a heightened feeling of warmth in the hands. The

> > practitioner is said to merely serve as a conduit for the *Reiki*

> > energy. A second degree *Reiki* practitioner allegedly " learns to send

> > *Reiki* over distance through the use of special symbols which involve

> > the opening up to the experience of the energy and listening to one's

> > inner voice. " The third level is *Reiki* Master, a process lasting a

> > year or more while working as an apprentice with another *Reiki*

> > Master. During this time the apprentice learns to embody the energy

> > and is then able to teach *Reiki* to others. "

> >

> > There is no evidence that clinical *Reiki*'s effects are due to

> > anything other than suggestion, or that they are superior to massage

> > or any other healing ritual. *Reiki*'s metaphysical beliefs may be in

> > conflict with an individual patient's religious beliefs. Full

> > disclosure of the belief system should precede its use in any setting.

> > An investigation of proponent literature casts serious doubt as to

> > whether *Reiki* practitioners can be trusted with such full

> > disclosure. *Reiki* literature presents misinformation as fact, and

> > instructs practitioners on how to skirt the law in order to protect

> > themselves from regulation and accountability.

> >

> .

> .

> One of the harms of things that just don't work are that they may

> encourage you to not get treatment for something that can be fatal

> without treatment.  Your actual results [other than the benefits of any

> massage] may be as great as the typical chance or placebo results in

> credible research, but not higher.

>

> Regards,

>

> .

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi, Roni. A few comments below...

..

..

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20REIKE%2E%20%20WAS%3A%20Another%\

20Day%20Another%20Doctor>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:45 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> New information as I used it, referred to the United States which has

> been late in embracing these old methods. Just because something isn't

> allopathic medicine doesn't mean is quackery.

..

..

I'm sure there are new twists, but basically it's very old. Quackery is

when claims are made that conflict with well established facts and for

benefits that always fail above chance and placebo when credible studies

are done.

..

..

>

> They are now suing the makers of the so called bone restoration drugs

> because they have found them to be actually causing bone fractures of

> the long bones in the leg. It obviously was quackery, even though it

> was allopathic.

..

..

There are and have been allopathic practices that are ineffective. That

does not mean they were quackery, although an element of quackery could

have been involved if the research was " cooked " .

..

..

>

> Rockefeller started the whole allopathic medical system as it stands

> today, from what would be taught in medical schools, to the drug

> companies, to the doctors' practices to medical insurance.

> It's all there on Google if you want look it up. The entire system was

> set up to make MONEY, not to help patients.

..

..

Nearly all regular businesses are set up to make money, although it

doesn't always work out that way. That's the nature of a free market

capitalist system such as we [used to] have in the US; which has

produced more of the benefits of wealth [standard of living] to average

people than any other system in history. Those selling you worthless

quack products are in it for the money too, you know...

..

..

>

> Your reverence of allopathic medicine to the exclusion of everything

> else is amazing to me. You are an intelligent person, and I'm sure you

> realize that other medical systems are practiced around the world and

> are healing populations.

..

..

Ha! As I've stated before: If I or a loved one have to get major

medical help from allopathic medicine I approach it with fear and

trembling, but hardly reverence. I'm well aware that it kills thousands

every year [probably every month] in the US.

What I'm aware of is this: When a lot of the old systems are tested

they cannot produce results greater than chance or placebo. The human

body has evolved [or was designed] to heal itself; otherwise we would

not have survived the millions of years before modern medicine. The

bottom line is that when someone claims to work with some kind of energy

that cannot be detected and measured by any method known to man they're

probably a quack. As a matter of fact if some " healer " starts talking

about " vibrations " or some undefined " energy " then it's a good time to

look for the exit. For the most part they know little or nothing about

either; or else are just deliberately lying.

..

..

>

> There is one area that I will agree with you, which is surgery. I

> think our surgeons are the most qualified and have the best equipment

> in the world. The rest of it, not so much.

>

> <>Roni

..

..

There are lots of mistakes, often fatal IMHO in surgery too. And many

are performed that probably should not have been. It's often as much an

art as a science, even though science based.

Regards,

..

..

>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 10:18 AM

>

> When " new information " [in this case centuries old, back to the leeches

> and blood letting days or earlier] becomes available I look for

> contradictions with known facts. When these are available in abundance

> and when the proposed methods that the process is supposed to utilize do

> not exist then it becomes highly suspect.

>

> With Google you have an easy way to know the real facts about any quack

> process so widely known.

>

> Quack processes DO sometimes produce [or seem to produce] positive

> results. The number of patients in credible research projects on such

> processes who get positive results will be from chance or placebo.

>

> The process you're supporting goes back almost to the time some people

> still thought the earth was flat. I don't know why you refer to it as

> " new information "

> .

>

> Luck,

>

[Guest guest]

I want to state that everything has a vibration, everything. It's the reason

that a singer hitting a particular note can shatter a glass. People have a

vibration too, and if some learn how to enhance that vibration, it's no more

quackery than enhancing a radio signal. Just because  something isn't

seen doesn't mean it's not there. I experience it myself, and so I know that

energy healing does work. That does not mean that all " practictioners " of it are

good, just like

all allopathic " practitioners " are good.  I've met good and bad practitioners of

each of the

practices, and some are good and some are definitely not.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 10:18 AM

>

> When " new information " [in this case centuries old, back to the leeches

> and blood letting days or earlier] becomes available I look for

> contradictions with known facts.  When these are available in abundance

> and when the proposed methods that the process is supposed to utilize do

> not exist then it becomes highly suspect.

>

> With Google you have an easy way to know the real facts about any quack

> process so widely known.

>

> Quack processes DO sometimes produce [or seem to produce] positive

> results.  The number of patients in credible research projects on such

> processes who get positive results will be from chance or placebo.

>

> The process you're supporting goes back almost to the time some people

> still thought the earth was flat.  I don't know why you refer to it as

> " new information "

> .

>

> Luck,

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I certainly had no intention of causing you to believe I don't know that

the universe is utterly full of vibrations and energy. My objection is

that quack practitioners refer to vibrations and energy of a nature that

either does not exist or cannot be detected. Further, they claim to be

able to control same when their claims reveal they know little or

nothing about the nature or either.

Given that each human has so many vibrations the notion of enhancing a

human's vibration makes no sense to me. Controlling most of them is

difficult or impossible, and in any event would not provide any health

benefit.

Energy healing is undefined. It is therefore unlikely to be effective

above chance or placebo.

The most effective con artist is the one who is the most effective at

conning. And in case you're wondering: Yes, some allopathic

practitioners are pretty darn good con artists.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20REIKE%2E%20%20WAS%3A%20Another%\

20Day%20Another%20Doctor>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:39 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> I want to state that everything has a vibration, everything. It's the

> reason that a singer hitting a particular note can shatter a glass.

> People have a vibration too, and if some learn how to enhance that

> vibration, it's no more quackery than enhancing a radio signal. Just

> because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there. I

> experience it myself, and so I know that

> energy healing does work. That does not mean that all " practictioners "

> of it are good, just like

> all allopathic " practitioners " are good. I've met good and bad

> practitioners of each of the

> practices, and some are good and some are definitely not.

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: REIKE. WAS: Another Day Another Doctor

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 11:03 AM

>

> Hi, Roni. A few comments below...

> .

> .

>

> > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam%40>

> > <mailto:matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam%40>?Subject=%20Re%

> 3A%20REIKE%2E%20%20WAS%3A%20Another%20Day%20Another%20Doctor>

> > matchermaam <matchermaam

> <matchermaam>>

> >

> >

> > Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:45 pm (PST)

> >

> >

> >

> > New information as I used it, referred to the United States which has

> > been late in embracing these old methods. Just because something isn't

> > allopathic medicine doesn't mean is quackery.

> .

> .

> I'm sure there are new twists, but basically it's very old. Quackery is

> when claims are made that conflict with well established facts and for

> benefits that always fail above chance and placebo when credible studies

> are done.

> .

> .

> >

> > They are now suing the makers of the so called bone restoration drugs

> > because they have found them to be actually causing bone fractures of

> > the long bones in the leg. It obviously was quackery, even though it

> > was allopathic.

> .

> .

> There are and have been allopathic practices that are ineffective. That

> does not mean they were quackery, although an element of quackery could

> have been involved if the research was " cooked " .

> .

> .

>

> >

> > Rockefeller started the whole allopathic medical system as it stands

> > today, from what would be taught in medical schools, to the drug

> > companies, to the doctors' practices to medical insurance.

> > It's all there on Google if you want look it up. The entire system was

> > set up to make MONEY, not to help patients.

> .

> .

> Nearly all regular businesses are set up to make money, although it

> doesn't always work out that way. That's the nature of a free market

> capitalist system such as we [used to] have in the US; which has

> produced more of the benefits of wealth [standard of living] to average

> people than any other system in history. Those selling you worthless

> quack products are in it for the money too, you know...

> .

> .

> >

> > Your reverence of allopathic medicine to the exclusion of everything

> > else is amazing to me. You are an intelligent person, and I'm sure you

> > realize that other medical systems are practiced around the world and

> > are healing populations.

> .

> .

> Ha! As I've stated before: If I or a loved one have to get major

> medical help from allopathic medicine I approach it with fear and

> trembling, but hardly reverence. I'm well aware that it kills thousands

> every year [probably every month] in the US.

>

> What I'm aware of is this: When a lot of the old systems are tested

> they cannot produce results greater than chance or placebo. The human

> body has evolved [or was designed] to heal itself; otherwise we would

> not have survived the millions of years before modern medicine. The

> bottom line is that when someone claims to work with some kind of energy

> that cannot be detected and measured by any method known to man they're

> probably a quack. As a matter of fact if some " healer " starts talking

> about " vibrations " or some undefined " energy " then it's a good time to

> look for the exit. For the most part they know little or nothing about

> either; or else are just deliberately lying.

> .

> .

> >

> > There is one area that I will agree with you, which is surgery. I

> > think our surgeons are the most qualified and have the best equipment

> > in the world. The rest of it, not so much.

> >

> > <>Roni

> .

> .

> There are lots of mistakes, often fatal IMHO in surgery too. And many

> are performed that probably should not have been. It's often as much an

> art as a science, even though science based.

>

> Regards,

>