Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being on T4-only?

[Guest guest]

I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to take the poll

- but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3 to my regimen.

I still don't know why

>

>

> You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/> is in the process of creating a World

> Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

>

>

>

> The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> hypothyroidism.

>

>

>

> It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php> . All

> responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> this be become necessary. "

>

>

>

> If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> help spread the word.

>

>

>

> Many thanks

>

> Sheila

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Everyone is different, and just like T4 made me sick because of my chemistry the

T3 made you sick because of yours. That's why we usually tell people on this

list that ask for help to make sure they see their doctor and discuss the

problem and get the best testing that can be had, as well as getting copies of

their lab tests, no matter what they may be.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Dave <dcbaden@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 8:32 AM

I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to take the poll

- but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3 to my regimen.

I still don't know why

>

>

> You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>  is in the process of creating a World

> Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

>

>

>

> The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> hypothyroidism.

>

>

>

> It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>  . All

> responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> this be become necessary. "

>

>

>

> If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> help spread the word.

>

>

>

> Many thanks

>

> Sheila

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Most people make T3 from T4, even when they have a defective thyroid

gland. But it apparently doesn't work for everybody, as Roni [and

others] can tell you from personal experience. The percentage of

patients who benefit in controlled studies seem to be so small that they

don't show up above chance or placebo in all of the cases I've heard of;

but for some people it appears to the the holy grail of hypo care

[anecdotal evidence]. The problem for those in the UK is that they

don't have much [if any] choice.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Dave " dcbaden@...

>

<mailto:dcbaden@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Did%20you%20feel%20better%20when%20\

starting%20T3%20after%20being%20on%20T4-only%3F>

> dcbaden <dcbaden>

>

>

> Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:36 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to

> take the poll - but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3

> to my regimen.

> I still don't know why

>

>

> >

> >

> > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>> is in the

> process of creating a World

> > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> >

> >

> >

> > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > hypothyroidism.

> >

> >

> >

> > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>> . All

> > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> > this be become necessary. "

> >

> >

> >

> > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> > help spread the word.

> >

> >

> >

> > Many thanks

> >

> > Sheila

> >

[Guest guest]

Some information on Cytomel (T3).

 

http://endocrine-system.emedtv.com/cytomel/cytomel.html

 

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 9:02 AM

Most people make T3 from T4, even when they have a defective thyroid

gland.  But it apparently doesn't work for everybody, as Roni [and

others] can tell you from personal experience.  The percentage of

patients who benefit in controlled studies seem to be so small that they

don't show up above chance or placebo in all of the cases I've heard of;

but for some people it appears to the the holy grail of hypo care

[anecdotal evidence].  The problem for those in the UK is that they

don't have much [if any] choice.

Regards,

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " Dave " dcbaden@...

>   

   <mailto:dcbaden@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Did%20you%20feel%20better%20when\

%20starting%20T3%20after%20being%20on%20T4-only%3F>

>       dcbaden <dcbaden>

>

>

>         Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:36 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to

> take the poll - but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3

> to my regimen.

> I still don't know why

>

>

> >

> >

> > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>> is in the

> process of creating a World

> > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> >

> >

> >

> > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > hypothyroidism.

> >

> >

> >

> > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>> . All

> > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> > this be become necessary. "

> >

> >

> >

> > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> > help spread the word.

> >

> >

> >

> > Many thanks

> >

> > Sheila

> >

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

not being able to tolerate t3 is often due to weak adrenal function since t3

uses up cortisol...try taking your temperature for a few days, three hours after

you wake up and three hours after that and again three hours after the second

time...if there is a variation from day to day that can indicate low adrenals.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

> >

> >

> > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/> is in the process of creating a World

> > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> >

> >

> >

> > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > hypothyroidism.

> >

> >

> >

> > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php> . All

> > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> > this be become necessary. "

> >

> >

> >

> > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> > help spread the word.

> >

> >

> >

> > Many thanks

> >

> > Sheila

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What would

the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 11:27 AM

not being able to tolerate t3 is often due to weak adrenal function since t3

uses up cortisol...try taking your temperature for a few days, three hours after

you wake up and three hours after that and again three hours after the second

time...if there is a variation from day to day that can indicate low adrenals.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

> >

> >

> > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>  is in the process of creating a World

> > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy. This

> > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms disappeared

> > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product , whether

> > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> >

> >

> >

> > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only therapy is

> > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities throughout the

> > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > hypothyroidism.

> >

> >

> >

> > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you complete the

> > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>  . All

> > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date should

> > this be become necessary. "

> >

> >

> >

> > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum), will you

> > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the potential to

> > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you can to

> > help spread the word.

> >

> >

> >

> > Many thanks

> >

> > Sheila

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'd be extremely leery of following the advice of Dr. Rind. Here's a

brief report of some of his problems:

..

> In December 2000, the land Board of Physicians concluded that

> Bruce *Rind*, M.D., who now practices in Washington, D.C. , had failed

> to meet appropriate standards for delivering quality medical care;

> failed to keep adequate medical records on ten patients; wilfully

> submitted false insurance statements to collect fees for services not

> provided for nine patients; was guilty of unprofessional conduct; and

> had falsely represented himself as a registered acupuncturist. *Rind*

> was ordered to pay an $8,000 penalty and placed on probation for 18

> months.

..

..

For a more in depth idea of how he operates see this link:

..

http://www.circare.org/pd/rindmdorder_20001220.pdf

..

..

You will also find quite a number of people who think he walks on

water. It seems probable that few if any of them are in any danger of

falling off the right side of the Bell curve or have benefited from a

higher education.

Luck,

..

..

> Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@...

>

<mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Did%20you%20feel%20better%20when%2\

0starting%20T3%20after%20being%20on%20T4-only%3F>

> trishruk <trishruk>

>

>

> Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:28 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

>

> not being able to tolerate t3 is often due to weak adrenal function

> since t3 uses up cortisol...try taking your temperature for a few

> days, three hours after you wake up and three hours after that and

> again three hours after the second time...if there is a variation from

> day to day that can indicate low adrenals.

>

> http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

> <http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph>

[Guest guest]

i replied to this a few days ago but it seems to have disappeared in cyber

space!

if t4†" t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can become toxic

through unused t4. common reasons for not converting can be due to lack/low

level of selenium and not having enough cortisol. i think too much cortisol

also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for rt3 being made which

then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of t3. i am not an expert by

any means and am open to correction on all the above.

>

> That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

> �

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

[Guest guest]

All these things were checked and there was no problem. It all started with the

change in Armour. I was not the only one that got sick.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 12:05 AM

i replied to this a few days ago but it seems to have disappeared in cyber

space!

if t4†" t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can become

toxic through unused t4.  common reasons for not converting can be due to

lack/low level of selenium and not having enough cortisol.  i think too much

cortisol also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for rt3 being made

which then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of t3.  i am not an

expert by any means and am open to correction on all the above.

>

> That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

> �

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Trish,

You wrote:

>

> ... if t4†" t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can become

> toxic through unused t4. common reasons for not converting can be due to

> lack/low level of selenium and not having enough cortisol. i think too

> much cortisol also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for

> rt3 being made which then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of

> t3....

This is essentially correct.

The same selenium based enzyme that converts T4 to T3 is also

responsible for converting RT3 to T2. If it is impaired in any way, the

balance of T3 tips toward RT3.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I have always taken a high potency multi with the correct dose of selenium, plus

whatever I get from the food I eat. I never showed up with a selenium shortage,

and yet, when Armour changed their " inert " ingredients (according to them) I

became ill and was making too much ReverseT3. It had to have been something

Armour did, and more than changing their inert ingredients by substituting a

sugar for cellulose.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> ... if t4†" t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can

become

> toxic through unused t4. common reasons for not converting can be due to

> lack/low level of selenium and not having enough cortisol. i think too

> much cortisol also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for

> rt3 being made which then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of

> t3....

This is essentially correct.

The same selenium based enzyme that converts T4 to T3 is also

responsible for converting RT3 to T2. If it is impaired in any way, the

balance of T3 tips toward RT3.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

thanks for the added *nugget*

> >

> > ... if t4� " t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can become

> > toxic through unused t4. common reasons for not converting can be due to

> > lack/low level of selenium and not having enough cortisol. i think too

> > much cortisol also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for

> > rt3 being made which then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of

> > t3....

>

> This is essentially correct.

>

> The same selenium based enzyme that converts T4 to T3 is also

> responsible for converting RT3 to T2. If it is impaired in any way, the

> balance of T3 tips toward RT3.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

yes indeed, there were many who suffered badly due to the re-formulation fiasco.

because the new armour could no longer be taken sublingually, i'm wondering

whether gut issues had an impact for you...apparently at least half a pint of

(preferably) water needs to be taken in order to *push* the medication right

down to the jejunum part of the small intestine where the t4 is absorbed ...at

least this is what needs to

happen with t4 only medication so i admit i am assuming that it would be valid

practice for armour as well. if you weren't absorbing it then it wouldn't be

available for conversion and that could stress your body and maybe rt3 was made

because of that ....it's a conundrum isn't it, there are so many variables!!

when you had your cortisol level checked, was it a first thing in the morning

blood test or did you do the 24hour saliva test?

may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem? my

thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3 would

automatically show up in the blood.

thanks

> >

> > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> >

> >

> > <>Roni

> > Immortality exists!

> > It's called knowledge!

> > �

> > Just because something isn't seen

> > doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

All of these were checked. Nothing was amiss until Forest fooled around with

Armour.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 12:05 AM

i replied to this a few days ago but it seems to have disappeared in cyber

space!

if t4†" t3 conversion doesn’t happen as it should the body can become

toxic through unused t4.  common reasons for not converting can be due to

lack/low level of selenium and not having enough cortisol.  i think too much

cortisol also affects t4-t3 conversion and this is one reason for rt3 being made

which then sits on the t3 receptors and blocks the use of t3.  i am not an

expert by any means and am open to correction on all the above.

>

> That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

> �

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I didn't have a conversion problem till the formula changed. Then I became very

ill. It was only after all kinds of testing for all kinds of things that it was

discovered when the RT3 test was added to the others. Since I have been off

Armour and on T3 only I feel as good as someone who has had Fibromyalgia since

1998 can feel. I don't have the pains and feeling of dying that I had when I

became ill from the Armour.

 

By the way, I never took Armour sublingually, and had no trouble with it before.

The cortisol was done in the morning blood test, but was high enough that

there  was obviosly no problem, and I haven't had a problem since.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 8:23 AM

yes indeed, there were many who suffered badly due to the re-formulation

fiasco. 

because the new armour could no longer be taken sublingually, i'm wondering

whether gut issues had an impact for you...apparently at least half a pint of

(preferably) water needs to be taken in order to *push* the medication right

down to the jejunum part of the small intestine where the t4 is absorbed ...at

least this is what needs to

happen with t4 only medication so i admit i am assuming that it would be valid

practice for armour as well.  if you weren't absorbing it then it wouldn't be

available for conversion and that could stress your body and maybe rt3 was made

because of that ....it's a conundrum isn't it, there are so many variables!!

when you had your cortisol level checked, was it a first thing in the morning

blood test or did you do the 24hour saliva test?

may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem?  my

thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3 would

automatically show up in the blood.

thanks

> >

> > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> >

> >

> > <>Roni

> > Immortality exists!

> > It's called knowledge!

> > �

> > Just because something isn't seen

> > doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

if you didn't have a problem before and you didn't take armour sublingually then

it cicumstantially points to the change of filler? some people are incredibly

sensitive to certain things and sounds like you fall into that category.

> may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem? my

thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3 would

automatically show up in the blood.

> > >

> > > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> > >

> > >

> > > <>Roni

> > > Immortality exists!

> > > It's called knowledge!

> > > �

> > > Just because something isn't seen

> > > doesn't mean it's not there<>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I did have a conversion problem. However it wasn't until the Armour change that

it surfaced. They tried to give me levoxyl alone. Three different times and each

time I got sick again until a full battery of tests were run including RT3 which

showed the excess RT3.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:44 AM

if you didn't have a problem before and you didn't take armour sublingually then

it cicumstantially points to the change of filler?  some people are incredibly

sensitive to certain things and sounds like you fall into that category.

> may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem? 

my thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3

would automatically show up in the blood.

 

> > >

> > > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well. What

would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> > >

> > >

> > > <>Roni

> > > Immortality exists!

> > > It's called knowledge!

> > > �

> > > Just because something isn't seen

> > > doesn't mean it's not there<>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi all

I take levothyroxine, at mo and am a keen runner. I live in England and was

thinking of buying t3 to aid my training, has anyone done this?

Also what is natural thyroxine? Is it pig extraction or a quackery product?

Cheers

Jay

On 1 Feb 2011, at 22:30, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

> I did have a conversion problem. However it wasn't until the Armour change

that it surfaced. They tried to give me levoxyl alone. Three different times and

each time I got sick again until a full battery of tests were run including RT3

which showed the excess RT3.

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: Trish <fielddot@...>

> Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:44 AM

>

> if you didn't have a problem before and you didn't take armour sublingually

then it cicumstantially points to the change of filler? some people are

incredibly sensitive to certain things and sounds like you fall into that

category.

>

> > may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem?

my thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3

would automatically show up in the blood.

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well.

What would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <>Roni

> > > > Immortality exists!

> > > > It's called knowledge!

> > > > �

> > > > Just because something isn't seen

> > > > doesn't mean it's not there<>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I, personally, would never advise anyone to take T3 or any other hormone just to

improve

performance. This is serious business, and I think it needs to be handled that

way.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: Trish <fielddot@...>

> Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:44 AM

>

> if you didn't have a problem before and you didn't take armour sublingually

then it cicumstantially points to the change of filler?  some people are

incredibly sensitive to certain things and sounds like you fall into that

category.

>

> > may i ask how it was determined that you didn't have a conversion problem? 

my thinking here is that because armour contains 9mcg per grain of t3 then t3

would automatically show up in the blood.

>

>   

>

>

> > > >

> > > > That's very interesting. I am on t3 only and tolerate it quite well.

What would the reason be for someone not to tolerate T4, and get sick from it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <>Roni

> > > > Immortality exists!

> > > > It's called knowledge!

> > > > �

> > > > Just because something isn't seen

> > > > doesn't mean it's not there<>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

What most people refer to as the " natural " thyroxine is Armour. It

comes from pigs and has both T4 and T3 in it. Levothyroxine is T4 only,

which your body uses to make T3.

All of the T4 and T3 from whatever source is bioidentical, in that the

molecules are exactly the same. That being the fact the case for the

" natural " product isn't impressive.

Armour and similar products are not quackery; however the way some

people approach it has similarities. Most people do not need T3 unless

they have a conversion or other problem with T4. The credible research

I've seen referenced usually does not show any benefit above chance or

placebo from T3 or from T3 and T4 when compared to T4 alone, but we have

one heck of a lot of anecdotal evidence supporting the fact that some

small percentage of patients do in fact receive immense benefits from T3

or a combination of T4 and T3.

I personally would not recommend using T3 as any kind of training aid;

OTOH I'm not a doctor or any kind of expert. Thyroid products have been

misused by some interested in weight control or exercise programs; I'm

not sure of the details so maybe I'm off base there.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Jay " jmorrisuk@...

>

<mailto:jmorrisuk@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Did%20you%20feel%20better%20whe\

n%20starting%20T3%20after%20being%20on%20T4-only%3F>

> jmorrisuk <jmorrisuk>

>

>

> Tue Feb 1, 2011 3:03 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> Hi all

>

> I take levothyroxine, at mo and am a keen runner. I live in England

> and was thinking of buying t3 to aid my training, has anyone done this?

>

> Also what is natural thyroxine? Is it pig extraction or a quackery

> product?

>

> Cheers

>

> Jay

[Guest guest]

You are, of course, absolutely correct. We are all different, T4 made me

sick, like you, adding synthetic T3 made me sick, but starting NDT got

me well. Many people do fine on T4-only, many do well on either

synthetic T4/T3 combination or T3 alone. We also ensure that all our

members are made aware by way of a note that is automatically appended

to every message sent that members should never change their medication

without consultation with a medical practitioner, and just to assure

you, we also recommend the best testing possible (which in the UK is

often not the NHS recommended tests. We always ask our members also to

get copies of all their results, together with the reference range for

each test done and if necessary, we try to help them with their

interpretation.

Please note the specific wording in my message - " This short survey is

applicable only to those who continued to suffer symptoms on T4-only

therapy, and who found those symptoms were mitigated or disappeared once

they were started on a T3 hormone containing product, whether synthetic

or natural desiccated thyroid "

Not sure what point, if any, you are trying to make Roni.

Also Dave - this is a worldwide Register of Counterexamples, but

obviously, this is not for you as you did not feel better on T3.

Have you considered that the reason you might not have been able to get

better with T3 could be because you may be suffering with low adrenal

reserve, have systemic candidiasis, could be suffering with mercury

poisoning caused through amalgam fillings, have low levels of ferritin,

vitamin B12, vitami D3, magnesium, folate, copper or zinc. Any of these

being low in the reference range could stop the thyroid hormone from

being properly utilised at the cellular level.

Sheila

> Everyone is different, and just like T4 made me sick because of my

chemistry the T3 made you sick because of yours. That's why we usually

tell people on this list that ask for help to make sure they see their

doctor and discuss the problem and get the best testing that can be had,

as well as getting copies of their lab tests, no matter what they may

be.

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

>

> From: Dave dcbaden@...

> Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3

after being on T4-only?

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 8:32 AM

>

>

>

> I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to

take the poll - but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3

to my regimen.

> I still don't know why

>

> ---

[Guest guest]

This is a world-wide register - not just UK. There were 900 participants

in the studies you are talking about which were quite flawed in how they

were carried out, that showed T4/T3 combination therapy was no better

than T4-only therapy. Already, we have 852 names in the register of

counterexamples.

The existence of counterexamples to T4-only therapy prove

incontrovertibly that endocrinology's stance is dangerously wrong. Their

continuance of practising in line with the T4-only treatment dictat is

pernicious.

It is long overdue for endocrinologists to recognise that the symptoms

of hypothyroidism can result from (a) insufficient secretion by the

thyroid gland or ( insufficient levels of thyroid hormones in the

body, associated with peripheral metabolism and peripheral cellular

hormone reception.

Sheila

> > >

> > >

> > > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy

www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>> is in the

> > process of creating a World

> > > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy.

This

> > > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms

disappeared

> > > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product ,

whether

> > > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only

therapy is

> > > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities

throughout the

> > > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > > hypothyroidism.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you

complete the

> > > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>

> > > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>> . All

> > > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date

should

> > > this be become necessary. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum),

will you

> > > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the

potential to

> > > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you

can to

> > > help spread the word.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > >

> > > Sheila

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I really don't remember now except maybe the one you just made to make sure the

doctor knows what is going on and does the prescribing. Also, getting the

original test results from the lab, not the edited results that some doctors'

offices give to their patients.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

> From: Dave dcbaden@...

> Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3

after being on T4-only?

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 8:32 AM

>

>

>

> I don't live in the UK, so it's probably not appropriate for me to

take the poll - but I'll tell you that I felt terrible when I added T3

to my regimen.

> I still don't know why

>

> ---

[Guest guest]

The T4, whether alone or in concert with the T3 was making my body convert

badly, leaving me with Reverse T3 running around in my blood with very little T3

getting into the cells. I don't like taking surveys that's why I didn't do it.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...>

Subject: Re: Did you feel better when starting T3 after being

on T4-only?

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 5:36 AM

This is a world-wide register - not just UK. There were 900 participants

in the studies you are talking about which were quite flawed in how they

were carried out, that showed T4/T3 combination therapy was no better

than T4-only therapy. Already, we have 852 names in the register of

counterexamples.

The existence of counterexamples to T4-only therapy prove

incontrovertibly that endocrinology's stance is dangerously wrong. Their

continuance of practising in line with the T4-only treatment dictat is

pernicious.

  It is long overdue for endocrinologists to recognise that the symptoms

of hypothyroidism can result from (a) insufficient secretion by the

thyroid gland or ( insufficient levels of thyroid hormones in the

body, associated with peripheral metabolism and peripheral cellular

hormone reception.

Sheila

> > >

> > >

> > > You may not be aware, but Thyroid Patient Advocacy

www.tpa-uk.org.uk

> > > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/>> is in the

> > process of creating a World

> > > Register of Counterexamples to levothyroxine-only (T4) therapy.

This

> > > short survey is applicable only to those who continued to suffer

> > > symptoms on T4-only therapy, and who found those symptoms

disappeared

> > > once they were started on a T3 hormone containing product ,

whether

> > > synthetic or natural thyroid extract.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The objective of this Register of Counterexamples to T4-only

therapy is

> > > to draw to the attention of those responsible authorities

throughout the

> > > world, the dire need for an urgent re-examination of the existing

> > > protocol for the diagnosis and management of the symptoms of

> > > hypothyroidism.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It is VERY important that if you fit this category that you

complete the

> > > 3 questions with either 'YES', 'NO' or N/A here

> > > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>

> > > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php

> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/register_of_counterexamples.php>> . All

> > > responses will be collated online, and your email address (if you

> > > provide one) will be used ONLY to contact you at a later date

should

> > > this be become necessary. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If you 'chat' on any other thyroid (or thyroid related forum),

will you

> > > also please copy and paste this message there. We have the

potential to

> > > gather thousands of such counterexamples, so please do what you

can to

> > > help spread the word.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > >

> > > Sheila

> > >

>