Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I could be wrong about this . Many women take bioidentical estrogen. How that is different from Estrace, which is the estrogen I used to take, I have no idea. I don't know if it's even done for thyroid hormones, and wouldn't consider any of it without checking it out thoroughly. I'm a little leery of it too right now, since I know so little about it. Thanks for your input. Barb Re: More Numbers ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 By what name do you call the care that allows insurance companies to deny coverage or claims to people at will, and lets adults and children die because they won't cover them ..Also, by what name do you call a health system that leaves millions of people with no insurance who can't go to a regular doctor because they can't afford it, and end up seriously sick at the ER? Then, of course every body else ends up paying for this. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:51 AM That's a very small taste of rationing; although the Politically Correct crowd who foisted it upon you will never call it that. If you think it's bad now just wait until Obamadon'tcare gets into full swing and you don't have any other choices. Best, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:23 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > Thanks. That could be the case. It's just not right that they can't > wait to get you out of the office. There is one large medical group > that has a monopoly in this city, and many of my friends 65 and over > have experienced the same treatment. In fact, one who has friends > within the system said they told her, the doctors were limiting > appointments of Medicare patients to five minutes. Judging by my > experience, that is exactly what they're doing. > > I'm still looking for sugestions on how to get them to do pituitary > testing. Since the doctors don't suggest it with all the information > they have, and some here think it's necessary or a good idea. The > question is, do they think it's not necessary because for some reason > they don't think I have a problem with that, or because they are > cutting back on Medicare costs? I'd hate to think something would be > overlooked because they are trying to cut costs. > > Barb ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:58 AM ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As far as estrogen replacement is considered. I would not take it until and unless an estrogen level test was performed and it showed a very low level of estrogen for the age of the woman involved. In addition I would not take it unless the menopause symptoms were really severe and not allowing the woman to conduct her life in a normal manner. A few hot flashes can be annoying, but when compared to becoming soaking wet every 20 minutes 24/7, you can see there is a striking difference. Also, the nurses study showed that taking progesterone with the estrogen created more cases of cancer and ones that were harder to treat and eradicate. These are all serious considerations. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: H <macbarb0503@...> Subject: Re: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 11:16 AM I could be wrong about this . Many women take bioidentical estrogen. How that is different from Estrace, which is the estrogen I used to take, I have no idea. I don't know if it's even done for thyroid hormones, and wouldn't consider any of it without checking it out thoroughly. I'm a little leery of it too right now, since I know so little about it. Thanks for your input. Barb Re: More Numbers ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Roni, Thanks. That's interesting and educational. I didn't realize Armour is a biodentical hormone. The article is correct that what works for one, may not work for another. A friend's husband was on Synthroid and doing well. His doctor switched him to the generic Levothyroxin, and he got very sick. He had no energy, didn't want to do anything, and felt awful. She called the doctor and insisted he write a prescription for Synthroid. Her husband is back on that and doing well again. Barb Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:58 AM ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's good advice Roni. Barb Re: More Numbers ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Roni, You wrote: > Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only > viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. > > http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ I'm with on this one. A doctor who pushes Armour because it is " bio-identical, " while Synthroid is not, but merely synthetic, is either a quack or incompetent. I would be very leery, either way. The T4 in Synthroid is completely chemically identical to the T4 in Armour. This is the usual meaning of bio-identical, to distinguish drugs such as prednisone from what it mimics, cortisol, the bioidentical form. What is different about Armour is that it made from dessicated thyroid gland, so it contains T3 and some of the metabolic by-products, such as T2 and T1, as well as calcitonin. A second meaning of bio-identical is that a mixture matches the mixture we produce or receive, including buffers and incipient ingredients. There are several reasons why this mixture cannot claim to be bio-identical in this sense, even though the ingredients are chemically identical to the synthetics. First, dessicated porcine thyroid glands have a higher ratio of T3 to T4 than in humans. Secondly, since the Armour must be digested and absorbed, it reaches the blood in a very different form than what is released from a functioning gland. The biggest difference is that nearly 100% of the T3 is absorbed, but only about 80% of the T4. This makes the ratio of T3 to T4 even greater. If food, drink, or supplements are taken near the dose, even less of the T4 is absorbed, thus making making Armour nearly the same as just taking synthetic T3, Cytomel. So, Armour is not " natural " in its effects just because it is an animal byproduct, and its active ingredients are no more nor less identical to the hormones produced by a living gland than are the synthetics. It may be a great nostrum for you; many rave about it, but these labels (bio-identical and natural) are just incorrect and misleading hype. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Chuck is a scientist, and a person of incalculable value to this group. For a little info on his professional pursuits see this link: .. http://www.pittstate.edu/department/physics/faculty/charles-c-blatchley.dot .. While much of what he shares here is outside of his main specialty the training and education he has allows him to understand the most technical papers presented on hypothyroidism or any other specialty. He and a number of his family are hypothyroidism patients and I suspect that has provided him an incentive to learn about the illness. I have absolutely no doubt that he knows a heck of a lot more about it than many doctors. He is IMHO also an all around nice guy; surely among the most helpful you will find here. He never toots his own horn and I probably irritate the h*!! out of him when I do it for him; sorry, Chuck... Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:16 pm (PST) > > > > > > > Chuck, > > I continue to be amazed by how much you know! How do you know all > this? Anyway, I'm glad you do, and thanks for sharing your knowledge > with the rest of us. It is very helpful. Do you know what a doctor > might be looking for as " evidence of excess cortisol " ? > > Thanks, > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 , You wrote: > ...He never toots his own horn and I probably irritate > the h*!! out of him when I do it for him; sorry, Chuck... I just worry that you are boring everyone. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well aren't we lucky to have such a well educated person to help us figure things out? Thanks for the information . And, thank you Chuck for sharing your knowledge with us. I appreciate the contributions of everyone here. Barb Re: More Numbers Chuck is a scientist, and a person of incalculable value to this group. For a little info on his professional pursuits see this link: .. http://www.pittstate.edu/department/physics/faculty/charles-c-blatchley.dot .. While much of what he shares here is outside of his main specialty the training and education he has allows him to understand the most technical papers presented on hypothyroidism or any other specialty. He and a number of his family are hypothyroidism patients and I suspect that has provided him an incentive to learn about the illness. I have absolutely no doubt that he knows a heck of a lot more about it than many doctors. He is IMHO also an all around nice guy; surely among the most helpful you will find here. He never toots his own horn and I probably irritate the h*!! out of him when I do it for him; sorry, Chuck... Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:16 pm (PST) > > > > > > > Chuck, > > I continue to be amazed by how much you know! How do you know all > this? Anyway, I'm glad you do, and thanks for sharing your knowledge > with the rest of us. It is very helpful. Do you know what a doctor > might be looking for as " evidence of excess cortisol " ? > > Thanks, > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 These types of reactions to ANY drug for anything are not unusual, and it's important that patients report any undesirable reactions to anything they are taking to their doctors. My Cardiologist rxd some natural vitamins for me, and the amount was evidently too much for my body, because I was wearing out the carpet in trips back and forth to the bathroom. I halved the dose of the two that I thought (after researching them) the problem, and I seem to be doing all right now. I go to see him in a couple of weeks so we'll discuss it again. I react badly to medications, so he is good at finding natural things for me. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:58 AM ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're getting don't add up. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:49 am (PST) > > > > > Marla, > > [...] > > I've thought about a holistic doctor, and am checking into that. There > is one here who does bioidentical hormones, but it might be only for > estrogen. I'm going to call her and a couple of other holistic doctors > and see what I can find out. A D.O. is something I hadn't thought of, > even thought I went to one years ago, and was happy with him. I > understand what you're saying about the specialists. > > It is shocking that your endo refused to check your iron. Unbelievable! > > Thanks for your good wishes. > > Barb ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Everything you say may be entirely true, but I personally have known people who had been put on Synthroid, and did very badly, and then were put on Armour and did very well. This was all way before Armour went through their formula change. I have no idea what it's results are today. I spent many years on Thyrolar, which was the synthetic equivilent of Armour, and as long as they allowed me to have enough of a dose I was all right. However, every time they read the TSH and labeled me hyper, my dose was cut and there I was sick again. While we or others discuss synthetic or bioidentical ad infinitem, as far as I'm concerned the discourse should be about the physicians promoting sickness in their thyroid patients because of their refusal to pay attention to symptoms and do sufficient checking with tests to make absolutely sure of their diagnoses, rather than to feed their egos and maintain their rigidity. The emphasis needs to be on what does this patient need to make him/her healthy again, not should it be this or that particular doctor's favorite drug. This haphazard way of rxg drugs to patients is inherent in all the specialties, not just Endos. When I showed my Cardiologist my thyroid results which clearly showed elevated RT3 and severely hypothyroid, all he looked at was the TSH number and said you're hyperthyroid. I had to redirect his gaze to the other numbers at which point he pronounced in a shocked voice that no, I wasn't hyperthyroid, I was in fact hypothyroid. If the patient doesn't know get copies of the lab reports and makes sure to find out what the results mean, they could be complicit in their own illness. It's deplorable. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only > viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. > > http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ I'm with on this one. A doctor who pushes Armour because it is " bio-identical, " while Synthroid is not, but merely synthetic, is either a quack or incompetent. I would be very leery, either way. The T4 in Synthroid is completely chemically identical to the T4 in Armour. This is the usual meaning of bio-identical, to distinguish drugs such as prednisone from what it mimics, cortisol, the bioidentical form. What is different about Armour is that it made from dessicated thyroid gland, so it contains T3 and some of the metabolic by-products, such as T2 and T1, as well as calcitonin. A second meaning of bio-identical is that a mixture matches the mixture we produce or receive, including buffers and incipient ingredients. There are several reasons why this mixture cannot claim to be bio-identical in this sense, even though the ingredients are chemically identical to the synthetics. First, dessicated porcine thyroid glands have a higher ratio of T3 to T4 than in humans. Secondly, since the Armour must be digested and absorbed, it reaches the blood in a very different form than what is released from a functioning gland. The biggest difference is that nearly 100% of the T3 is absorbed, but only about 80% of the T4. This makes the ratio of T3 to T4 even greater. If food, drink, or supplements are taken near the dose, even less of the T4 is absorbed, thus making making Armour nearly the same as just taking synthetic T3, Cytomel. So, Armour is not " natural " in its effects just because it is an animal byproduct, and its active ingredients are no more nor less identical to the hormones produced by a living gland than are the synthetics. It may be a great nostrum for you; many rave about it, but these labels (bio-identical and natural) are just incorrect and misleading hype. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I think everyone on this group is grateful that Chuck is here and helps everyone so much. I know that I am. You go ahead and toot his horn as much as you like, he deserves it. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 1:54 PM Chuck is a scientist, and a person of incalculable value to this group. For a little info on his professional pursuits see this link: .. http://www.pittstate.edu/department/physics/faculty/charles-c-blatchley.dot .. While much of what he shares here is outside of his main specialty the training and education he has allows him to understand the most technical papers presented on hypothyroidism or any other specialty. He and a number of his family are hypothyroidism patients and I suspect that has provided him an incentive to learn about the illness. I have absolutely no doubt that he knows a heck of a lot more about it than many doctors. He is IMHO also an all around nice guy; surely among the most helpful you will find here. He never toots his own horn and I probably irritate the h*!! out of him when I do it for him; sorry, Chuck... Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:16 pm (PST) > > > > > > > Chuck, > > I continue to be amazed by how much you know! How do you know all > this? Anyway, I'm glad you do, and thanks for sharing your knowledge > with the rest of us. It is very helpful. Do you know what a doctor > might be looking for as " evidence of excess cortisol " ? > > Thanks, > Barb ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 On 1/13/2011 5:53 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > Everything you say may be entirely true, but I personally have known > people who had been put on Synthroid, and did very badly, and then were > put on Armour and did very well.... I wasn't knocking Armour. For some, it is the only thing that works. My objection was to Dr. K calling it bio-identical in contrast to synthetics or suggesting it is superior because it is natural. BTW, Dr. K's degrees and honors are all in the field of chiropractic, including his nutrition degrees. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 That's interesting. I wasn't suggesting you were knocking Armour. I've done plenty of that since I got sick last year on it. I'm really much more interested in the doctor's paying more and better attention to their patients. Chuck I just received a message that my son was rear ended on the freeway on the way home, and is sitting in his chair with ice on his neck. I advised him to see a doctor or the ER tomorrow and offereed to drive if he needs me. My DIL said he had his seatbelt on but got quite a bump. Do you have any suggestions other than what I already told him. Oh, I also told him that whiplash develops over time. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > Everything you say may be entirely true, but I personally have known > people who had been put on Synthroid, and did very badly, and then were > put on Armour and did very well.... I wasn't knocking Armour. For some, it is the only thing that works. My objection was to Dr. K calling it bio-identical in contrast to synthetics or suggesting it is superior because it is natural. BTW, Dr. K's degrees and honors are all in the field of chiropractic, including his nutrition degrees. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi, Barb. Please see below... .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:27 am (PST) > > > > > .. wrote: > >Easy weight loss with hypothyroidism typically just don't go together; > >something else that confounds me. Usually with hypo you tend to gain > >weight or to have problems losing weight. That's IMHO because your > >metabolism is lowered and you burn fewer calories in just maintaining > >your life processes. > > , > > That's why it was so important for me to know I have Hashimoto's. > Because of the swings from hypo to hyper, there can be weight loss. .. .. I suspect that in such a case the majority of the weight loss occurs during hypEr swings instead of during hypO swings. Not sure though... .. .. > Also, I've read that the multi-nodular goiter can also cause weight > loss. The doctors didn't tell me any of this, so because of the > swelling on the sides of my neck, of course I wondered if I might have > Cancer. Thank God the biopsy came back benign. .. .. We're all so glad of that. I know a young lady [twenties/ maybe early thirties?] with two young children who discovered recently that she has advanced ovarian cancer. Not hopeful at all. .. .. > > > " In our culture we males have tended to " talk down " > >to women, even when we don't intend to do so; and further, when it is > >totally unjustified. You may just have to put you foot down and insist > >that you be an equal partner in your quest to find out what is going on > >and to get the relief you need. " .. .. > > WOW! It's big of you to admit that! It is something that I have > experienced many times, especially when having cars serviced through > the years. I do put my foot down, but many times have been laughed at. > For some reason, certain people think it's funny because I am 5'1 " , > and through the years my weight has varied from 94 to 118, with an > average of 110. It's like a double whammy when you're a woman and > you're small too. LOL! > > Barb .. .. Actually it's somewhat painful. I can't see it in myself nearly as well as I can see it in other males dealing with women but it happens so often that I guess I'm probably guilty too. After all I'm pretty hard-headed and that probably comes off as being even more put-down when I'm butting heads with women. I almost can't help but laugh in situations such as going with my wife when she's buying a car. If the salesperson is male almost without exception in a few microseconds the questions and discourse from the salesperson will be directed to me. Depending upon the attitude of the salesperson I might gently remind him that she's the one buying the car; or I can wait for my wife to rather abruptly inform him of the [already mentioned] fact. Of course my wife doesn't know a wrist pin from elbow grease, and the salesman probably guesses that to be the case. But she is often interested in vastly different attributes in a car than I would be, and she is quite capable of inquiring about those. Best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I've come across numerous claims for the use of bioidentical T4 and/or T3, often while researching the more bizarre claims of some of the con artists and quacks we sometimes see promoted here. Also high on the list of claims will be for " natural " as opposed to " synthetic " medicines; and " holistic " as opposed to conventional medicine. Knowing that these terms are pretty much totally bs WRT T4 and T3 often allows for a very quick accessment of ones claims. After all, once you find out a doctor is pushing something patently false how much confidence are you going to place in her/him? FAIK there may well be a world of difference between bioidentical estrogen, or there may not; I simply do not know. Best, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:16 am (PST) > > > > > I could be wrong about this . Many women take bioidentical > estrogen. How that is different from Estrace, which is the estrogen I > used to take, I have no idea. I don't know if it's even done for > thyroid hormones, and wouldn't consider any of it without checking it > out thoroughly. I'm a little leery of it too right now, since I know > so little about it. Thanks for your input. > > Barb > > Re: More Numbers > > ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat > with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating > hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, > so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the > unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then > they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. > > OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're > getting don't add up. > > Best, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have to echo the problems with buying or having cars serviced when it's a woman they are dealing with. When it's a woman alone, it's evern worse, and when the woman is older it's downright demeaning. They talk to you like you are a child. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > >Easy weight loss with hypothyroidism typically just don't go together; > >something else that confounds me. Usually with hypo you tend to gain > >weight or to have problems losing weight. That's IMHO because your > >metabolism is lowered and you burn fewer calories in just maintaining > >your life processes. > > , > > That's why it was so important for me to know I have Hashimoto's. > Because of the swings from hypo to hyper, there can be weight loss. .. .. I suspect that in such a case the majority of the weight loss occurs during hypEr swings instead of during hypO swings. Not sure though... .. .. > Also, I've read that the multi-nodular goiter can also cause weight > loss. The doctors didn't tell me any of this, so because of the > swelling on the sides of my neck, of course I wondered if I might have > Cancer. Thank God the biopsy came back benign. .. .. We're all so glad of that. I know a young lady [twenties/ maybe early thirties?] with two young children who discovered recently that she has advanced ovarian cancer. Not hopeful at all. .. .. > > > " In our culture we males have tended to " talk down " > >to women, even when we don't intend to do so; and further, when it is > >totally unjustified. You may just have to put you foot down and insist > >that you be an equal partner in your quest to find out what is going on > >and to get the relief you need. " .. .. > > WOW! It's big of you to admit that! It is something that I have > experienced many times, especially when having cars serviced through > the years. I do put my foot down, but many times have been laughed at. > For some reason, certain people think it's funny because I am 5'1 " , > and through the years my weight has varied from 94 to 118, with an > average of 110. It's like a double whammy when you're a woman and > you're small too. LOL! > > Barb .. .. Actually it's somewhat painful. I can't see it in myself nearly as well as I can see it in other males dealing with women but it happens so often that I guess I'm probably guilty too. After all I'm pretty hard-headed and that probably comes off as being even more put-down when I'm butting heads with women. I almost can't help but laugh in situations such as going with my wife when she's buying a car. If the salesperson is male almost without exception in a few microseconds the questions and discourse from the salesperson will be directed to me. Depending upon the attitude of the salesperson I might gently remind him that she's the one buying the car; or I can wait for my wife to rather abruptly inform him of the [already mentioned] fact. Of course my wife doesn't know a wrist pin from elbow grease, and the salesman probably guesses that to be the case. But she is often interested in vastly different attributes in a car than I would be, and she is quite capable of inquiring about those. Best, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi, Roni. Please see below... .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:53 am (PST) > > > > By what name do you call the care that allows insurance companies to > deny coverage or claims to people at will, .. .. There isn't any such system. When you buy insurance you are given a contract. The contract lays out what is covered and what is not. It is my responsibility to know what I'm buying and what I'm not buying; shame on me if I don't. " Will " doesn't have anything to do with it. .. .. and lets adults and children die because they won't cover them .. .. What you have described is every lawyer's dream/nightmare, depending upon whether she/he is representing the patient or the insurance company. The insurance company has an obligation to cover whatever is in the contract and has no obligation whatsoever to cover anything that is not in the contract. If the insurance company fails to provide coverage for a condition that is clearly covered and the patient dies then the estate of the patient will probably win millions in the resulting litigation. Thereafter the insurance company will have a rather strong financial incentive to provide contracted coverage. Further: If what you describe were the norm then very rapidly all of the lawyers would work for the patients and none for the insurance companies. I don't see that happening. If you buy house insurance and a storm blows your car into the ocean you really have no claim against your home replacement policy. It's equally illogical to suggest a health insurance company pay for something they did not insure. Unfortunately it sounds like I'm a proponent of the insurance companies in the above; actually far from it. I certainly have my own beefs [beeves?] to pick with them. There are a lot of improvements I think we should consider. But when you make charges against an insurance company or any other entity then your charges need to be well thought out and well supported by facts. I'd suggest there are in fact logical and well supported reasons to attack some of the practices of some insurance companies; I'd like to see those facts brought out rather than emotional responses. It isn't really the responsibility of the insurance company if little Timmy falls into the well and drowns; no matter how sad or heart-rending it may be. .. .. > .Also, by what name do you call a health system that leaves millions > of people with no insurance who can't go to a regular doctor because > they can't afford it, and end up seriously sick at the ER? Then, of > course every body else ends up paying for this. .. .. I'd call it one that has been totally mucked up more by government actions than anything else. Therefore given how they've screwed up what we have [that used to be much more affordable and patient-oriented] it makes very little sense to me to ask them to take on a vastly greater [actually, all-encompassing] role in health care. I'll repeat: The government doesn't do ANYTHING with economy, efficiency, timeliness or human compassion. If those attributes matter to you then the government bureaucracy should be the last entity you want involved. Let my give you and example: At one time patients had a direct financial relationship [among others] with their doctor. They paid his bill. The person receiving the service/benefit paid for it directly; and thus had a strong incentive to be a frugal consumer. One of the most destructive things that has happened to American health care started the decline of this important relationship a long time ago; as a matter of fact in WWII. Prices, wages, industrial production, darn near everything was taken over by the government. Specifically wage increases were prohibited. In order to reward employees to whom they could not give a raise many companies hit upon the idea of providing low cost or free health care insurance. Now the insurance company paid so the consumer/patient had less incentive to be frugal. The upward spiral traced back to that government action is responsible for much of the costs of our medical care today. Of course there's more to it than that; but I'll suggest that many/most of the ills in our present health care system have at their roots similar well meaning government actions. Unintended consequences often based upon static analysis. Regards, .. .. > > <>Roni > Immortality exists! > It's called knowledge! > > Just because something isn't seen > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:51 AM > > That's a very small taste of rationing; although the Politically Correct > crowd who foisted it upon you will never call it that. If you think > it's bad now just wait until Obamadon'tcare gets into full swing and you > don't have any other choices. > > Best, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 That is a perfect example. In the very first paragraph Dr. K reveals the fact that he does not know that all of the T4 and T3 molecules are bioidentical; or else he chooses to try to hide the fact. How could you possibly put any confidence in anything he says??? Regards, .. .. > > Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only > viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. > > http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ > <http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/> > > <>Roni > Immortality exists! > It's called knowledge! > > Just because something isn't seen > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:58 AM > > ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat > with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating > hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, > so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the > unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then > they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. > > OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're > getting don't add up. > > Best, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Barb, ALL of the T4 and ALL of the T3 from whatever source is bioidentical. A fact that seems to have escaped the mind of Dr. K. This is one of the facts that Chuck has covered repeatedly unless I'm totally off my rocker [possible, I guess]. OTOH it's probably quite true that SOME people do not react well to one medication or another; but the presence or absence of the attribute of bioidentical molecules of T4/T3 in one or the other IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!! If you're talking to a doctor who does not know that then I'd suggest you look elsewhere. Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:44 pm (PST) > > > > > Roni, > > Thanks. That's interesting and educational. I didn't realize Armour is > a biodentical hormone. The article is correct that what works for one, > may not work for another. A friend's husband was on Synthroid and > doing well. His doctor switched him to the generic Levothyroxin, and > he got very sick. He had no energy, didn't want to do anything, and > felt awful. She called the doctor and insisted he write a prescription > for Synthroid. Her husband is back on that and doing well again. > > Barb > > Re: Re: More Numbers > > Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only > viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. > > http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ > <http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/> > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Precisely; thank you Chuck. I'd like to emphasize one point you make: Dr. K and those like him cannot be using the second meaning of " bioidentical " , because if they did even the Armour that they are describing as " bioidentical " fails to meet the standard. Thus I always use the first meaning of " bioidentical " in discussing T4/T3 molecules. I think you said it best: What they're promoting is " ...just incorrect and misleading hype " . Regards, .. .. > > > Posted by: " ChuckB " gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:51 pm (PST) > > > > Roni, > > You wrote: > > Here's an overview from one source. It may or may not be the only > > viewpoint that is viable, but it's a start. > > > > http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/ > <http://drknews.com/which-thyroid-hormone-is-right-for-you/> > > I'm with on this one. A doctor who pushes Armour because it is > " bio-identical, > " while Synthroid is not, but merely synthetic, is either > a quack or incompetent. I would be very leery, either way. > > The T4 in Synthroid is completely chemically identical to the T4 in > Armour. This is the usual meaning of bio-identical, to distinguish drugs > such as prednisone from what it mimics, cortisol, the bioidentical form. > What is different about Armour is that it made from dessicated thyroid > gland, so it contains T3 and some of the metabolic by-products, such as > T2 and T1, as well as calcitonin. > > A second meaning of bio-identical is that a mixture matches the mixture > we produce or receive, including buffers and incipient ingredients. > There are several reasons why this mixture cannot claim to be > bio-identical in this sense, even though the ingredients are chemically > identical to the synthetics. > > First, dessicated porcine thyroid glands have a higher ratio of T3 to T4 > than in humans. Secondly, since the Armour must be digested and > absorbed, it reaches the blood in a very different form than what is > released from a functioning gland. The biggest difference is that nearly > 100% of the T3 is absorbed, but only about 80% of the T4. This makes the > ratio of T3 to T4 even greater. If food, drink, or supplements are taken > near the dose, even less of the T4 is absorbed, thus making making > Armour nearly the same as just taking synthetic T3, Cytomel. > > So, Armour is not " natural " in its effects just because it is an animal > byproduct, and its active ingredients are no more nor less identical to > the hormones produced by a living gland than are the synthetics. It may > be a great nostrum for you; many rave about it, but these labels > (bio-identical and natural) are just incorrect and misleading hype. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I'm inclined to surmise that that explains the lack of a clue in his repertoire! [ggg] .. .. > > Posted by: " ChuckB " gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001> > > > Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:06 pm (PST) > > > > On 1/13/2011 5:53 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > > Everything you say may be entirely true, but I personally have known > > people who had been put on Synthroid, and did very badly, and then were > > put on Armour and did very well.... > > I wasn't knocking Armour. For some, it is the only thing that works. My > objection was to Dr. K calling it bio-identical in contrast to > synthetics or suggesting it is superior because it is natural. > > BTW, Dr. K's degrees and honors are all in the field of chiropractic, > including his nutrition degrees. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 You've been fortunate . Others not so. People who had insurance and were taken down by deadly illnesses have been denied treatments that would have saved their lives, and died because of that. This includes chldren who were fully covered under their parents policies. These facts have been all over the news. I'm surprised you haven't seen them. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:51 AM > > That's a very small taste of rationing; although the Politically Correct > crowd who foisted it upon you will never call it that. If you think > it's bad now just wait until Obamadon'tcare gets into full swing and you > don't have any other choices. > > Best, > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I'm not. I just thought it was a simple jumping off point of explanation of how things work in the thyroid field. I don't have to believe every word he says or buy anything he's selling. However, maybe that's because I might know more than some about this subject. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 9:58 AM > > ly I'm somewhat leery of someone who advertises that they treat > with bioidentical hormones; especially if they're treating > hypothyroidism. All of the T4 and T3 from any source is bioidentical, > so if they advertise that they using bioidentical T4/T3 while giving the > unspoken impression that others are not and are therefor inferior then > they are deliberately flying under false colors IMHO. > > OTOH it makes sense to look for better answers when the ones you're > getting don't add up. > > Best, > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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