Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Barb, You wrote: > > http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Cancerinformation/Cancertypes/Lymphomanon-Hodgkin/Ty\ pesofNHL/Thyroid.aspx > > You may decide this reference has no merit, since it's .org.uk.... Looks OK to me, but most of what I know about lymphoma came from my veterinarian who was treating my hypoT dog, named Moose. Moose died last August. My criticisms of the UK system were mostly aimed at the British Thyroid Association. Their guidelines contain at least half a dozen major errors, including the T3 half life and obsolete criticisms of Armour. This is the group that recommends no thyroid medication of any kind until the TSH hits 10.0. http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/Guidelines/ Unfortunately, many doctors in the UK follow these recommendations. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 On 1/15/2011 1:45 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > I'm sure that these denied treatments could well have been > " experimental. However, the insurance companies cover " off label " drugs > all the time. If a child or even an adult has a > " chance of survival vs. death " I think the insurance companies have a > moral obligation to > allow that treatment rather than to sit by and watch that patient die.... The courts have ruled that they have a legal obligation to make a profit for stockholders. Any action that deviates from that, such as violating a contract to spend money on an unproven treatment, will subject them to substantial lawsuits. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Roni, You wrote: > Do you have a consistent consequence for him when he does something > wrong? Ceaser, the dog whisperer has lots of ideas. You may want to get > his bood if you don't already have it. Dogs are like children they learn > by our reactions to their actions, and need to have clear indications > that something is good or bad. To keep this on topic, large dog breeds are prone to hypoT. Cats, curiously, only tend to be hyperT. We do enjoy watching Caesar Milan's show. One thing that was suggested for house training puppies was to hang a bell on the door, so the dog would associate ringing the bell with going out. The hope was that she would learn to ring the bell when it was time to go out. She ate the bell. We learned to just anticipate and take her early. The puppy is training us. Chuck Calm-assertive, consistent, Pack Leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 She ate the bell. That's hilarious Chuck! LOL! Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Chuck, you asked for an example. I found an example of someone who was lucky enough to get into a trial for a new cancer drug, and has survived. If he had been refused, he would be dead now. Â http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/east_king/kir/news/113505634.html <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Â Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Cancerinformation/Cancertypes/Lymphomanon-Hodgkin/Ty\ pesofNHL/Thyroid.aspx > > You may decide this reference has no merit, since it's .org.uk.... Looks OK to me, but most of what I know about lymphoma came from my veterinarian who was treating my hypoT dog, named Moose. Moose died last August. My criticisms of the UK system were mostly aimed at the British Thyroid Association. Their guidelines contain at least half a dozen major errors, including the T3 half life and obsolete criticisms of Armour. This is the group that recommends no thyroid medication of any kind until the TSH hits 10.0. http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/Guidelines/ Unfortunately, many doctors in the UK follow these recommendations. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 How do you feel about that? To me that is one of the great travesties of justice. Â <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Â Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > I'm sure that these denied treatments could well have been > " experimental. However, the insurance companies cover " off label " drugs > all the time. If a child or even an adult has a > " chance of survival vs. death " I think the insurance companies have a > moral obligation to > allow that treatment rather than to sit by and watch that patient die.... The courts have ruled that they have a legal obligation to make a profit for stockholders. Any action that deviates from that, such as violating a contract to spend money on an unproven treatment, will subject them to substantial lawsuits. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I always trained puppies by taking them out every hour for an entire weekend. By the end of the weekend they associated going out, doing their business and getting a treat. After that it was smooth sailing. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Â Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > Do you have a consistent consequence for him when he does something > wrong? Ceaser, the dog whisperer has lots of ideas. You may want to get > his bood if you don't already have it. Dogs are like children they learn > by our reactions to their actions, and need to have clear indications > that something is good or bad. To keep this on topic, large dog breeds are prone to hypoT. Cats, curiously, only tend to be hyperT. We do enjoy watching Caesar Milan's show. One thing that was suggested for house training puppies was to hang a bell on the door, so the dog would associate ringing the bell with going out. The hope was that she would learn to ring the bell when it was time to go out. She ate the bell. We learned to just anticipate and take her early. The puppy is training us. Chuck Calm-assertive, consistent, Pack Leader. ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 It really is. I would love your dog. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge!  Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: H <macbarb0503@...> Subject: Re: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 1:43 PM She ate the bell. That's hilarious Chuck! LOL! Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 On 1/15/2011 3:43 PM, H wrote: > > > She ate the bell. > > That's hilarious Chuck! LOL! She also eats twigs, bark, and paper if we don't watch her carefully. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 It's true puppies have to be watched. When one of mine was a puppy and I would print something, she started barking the minute she heard the printer start. Then as each page went into the tray, she would grab it, snatch it out of the tray, and drop it on the floor. The printer was on top of a low filing cabinet, and she could just barely reach it standing on her hind legs. The first time it happened I couldn't believe it, and laughed so hard I cried. Having two is twice the fun, but I don't know about two the size of yours Chuck. LOL! Mine are little Westies. Barb Re: Re: More Numbers On 1/15/2011 3:43 PM, H wrote: > > > She ate the bell. > > That's hilarious Chuck! LOL! She also eats twigs, bark, and paper if we don't watch her carefully. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 On 1/15/2011 4:02 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > Chuck, you asked for an example. I found an example of someone who was > lucky enough to get into a trial for a new cancer drug, and has > survived. If he had been refused, he would be dead now. > > http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/east_king/kir/news/113505634.html 1. It is not a certainty that he would be dead, but the other treatments definitely did not seem to be working. 2. This has nothing to do with insurance. Pfizer paid for the crizotinib trials. He was lucky enough to qualify to be included. Insurance did not determine his eligibility; terms of Pfizer's trial did. 3. Once Pfizer jumps through all the hoops proving the drug works, it will be allowed for insurance to cover it. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 On 1/15/2011 4:05 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > I always trained puppies by taking them out every hour for an entire > weekend. By the end of the weekend they associated going out, doing > their business and getting a treat. After that it was smooth sailing. Just a weekend? The rule of them is that a dog can only hold it for one hour for every month of age plus 1. It helps if you take away their water at bedtime, but basically you can't expect them to make it through the night until they get to be around 4-5 months old. We're still giving treats when they come back in. " Insurance. " Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I seriously doubt that you can authenticate even one child's death due to an insurance company denying a covered claim where there was not multiple lawyers chomping at the bit. Raising the dead isn't part of the equation; providing a financial incentive for the insurance company to never do such a thing again might well save the life of the next child. Regards, .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:29 am (PST) > > > > I seriously think that if a child has died because the insurance > company denied treatment then even if 1,000 lawyers were at my door, > none of them could bring back the child. > > <>Roni > Immortality exists! > It's called knowledge! > > Just because something isn't seen > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 9:43 AM > > I have two newspapers delivered to my house each day; I usually read > much of the news in one of them. I skip most sports and advertisements. > > I suspect that if you follow up on some of the stories you will find > important facts left our or misrepresented. If not then you should be > able to find a follow-up story of the insurance company losing a > multi-million dollar lawsuit. Honestly, if such a case happened to a > child of yours where the insurance clearly failed to live up to its > contract do you think that you could step outside your door without > tripping over a dozen lawyers??? > > As I said before: I DO think we need to make some changes. I just > don't think the government bureaucracy is the entity to entrust with our > entire health care system. And I certainly do not have the expertise to > suggest all of the changes needed, especially knowing the insidious > nature of unintended consequences. > > Regards, > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Yes, and I think it's right in the sense you mean. However, when you do that you are using a meaning for " bioidentical " that is not common to other people who often may have cause to use it. Therefore communication becomes difficult. Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:33 am (PST) > > > > All right, I suppose I should have pointed that out. However, I still > don't think ANY of them are bioidentical at least because of the extra > ingredients and the delivery system (which Chuck has cited too). To > me, bioidentical is exactly the same, and none of them are the same. > Other ingredients can and do act to make the hormone behave > differently, and so the bioidenticallity is gone. Does this make sense > to you? > > <>Roni > Immortality exists! > It's called knowledge! > > Just because something isn't seen > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 9:53 AM > > I don't doubt that you know a lot more about some of the facets of > hypothyroidism than I do; I'm no expert. And further I haven't had the > years of searching for help that you did, and gained the knowledge that > you did along the way. > > I would also assume that you know that all of the T3 and T4 molecules > are bioidentical; Chuck and I have mentioned that many times. So it > surprised me that you seemed to be recommending an article written by > someone who is supposed to be some kind of expert but seems to be > lacking such elemental knowledge. Even if it's only for the purpose of > discussion it is IMHO totally confusing to start the discussion with a > number of incorrect facts unless the errors in those facts are clearly > pointed out. How else would someone new to this group and reading the > article be informed that Dr. K is full of bs? > > Regards, > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hi, Barb. I doubt Chuck would automatically reject research and other material just because it is from the UK. AFAIK they can and have done high quality work. The problem there is with the socialized medical care system like the one Obama wants to saddle us all with in the US. Such systems tend to cost vastly greater sums than anyone estimates up front, so that some form of rationing is necessary to avoid quickly bankrupting the economy of the entire country. One simple way they do that in the UK is to deny that you actually have hypothyroidism if your TSH is not at least 10. Now I'm quite sure the bureaucrats denying coverage with a TSH of 9 will swear on a stack of bibles that there is no rationing intended. All you have to do is to carry that number forward to get an idea of how much money they're saving: It takes a reading of about 3 times as high there as it does in other countries to even be considered for health treatment. AND if you do get treatment you can forget Armour and probably most medications having T3. Regards, .. .. PS: I don't know anything about the reliability of your reference. .. .. > Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... > <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > westieabbey <westieabbey> > > > Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:41 am (PST) > > > [...] > > http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Cancerinformation/Cancertypes/Lymphomanon-Hodgkin/Ty\ pesofNHL/Thyroid.aspx > <http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Cancerinformation/Cancertypes/Lymphomanon-Hodgkin/T\ ypesofNHL/Thyroid.aspx> > > You may decide this reference has no merit, since it's .org.uk. You > have already said what you think about the UK system of medicine. I > wasn't checking the UK, just the swelling, and that'swhat came up > related to the thyroid. > > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Roni, insurance companies do not " ...allow treatment... " nor do they disallow treatment. They simply provide coverage or they do not; the treatment can go on despite whatever the insurance company does. There are other parties involved besides insurance companies; do they all have the " moral obligation " to provide the treatment? How about the doctors? The nurses? The hospital? The general public? Experimental treatments are just that: Experiments. The result of an experiment might save a life or it might kill a patient. If you owned an insurance company would you want that responsibility? In any event to require the insurance company to cover something clearly excluded in the contract places an obligation on them that perhaps should be placed elsewhere. Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:45 am (PST) > > > > I'm sure that these denied treatments could well have been > " experimental. However, the insurance companies cover " off label " > drugs all the time. If a child or even an adult has a > " chance of survival vs. death " I think the insurance companies have a > moral obligation to > allow that treatment rather than to sit by and watch that patient die. > In addition, these " experimental " treatments, used in life/death > situations could also further the knowledge and success of treatment > for thousands of others. > > <>Roni > Immortality exists! > It's called knowledge! > > Just because something isn't seen > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > You've been fortunate . Others not so. People who had insurance and > > were taken down by deadly illnesses have been denied treatments that > > would have saved their lives, and died because of that. This includes > > chldren who were fully covered under their parents policies. These > > facts have been all over the news. I'm surprised you haven't seen them. > > > > The only cases I have seen reported involve experimental treatments or > ones approved for other conditions (off label) that might or might not > work. The " contracts " I have selected with insurance companies > explicitly exclude funding experiments for treatments outside the > medicare defined mainstream. > > If examples of deaths of fully covered children denied a contracted > treatment ex post facto is all over the news, you should have no problem > finding us an example, right? > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Barb, You wrote: > > ... Having two is twice the fun, but I don't know > about two the size of yours Chuck. LOL! Mine are little Westies. Ooh, tiny! Our other one is a little bigger than that size, a chow-golden mix male, about 40 pounds. So far they seem to get along well. I occasionally have to step in when they play, and it starts to become dominance testing. Other times they will sleep with paws around each other, spooning. The Pyrenees is also mostly white, and I bet she can dig black topsoil faster than a Westie. I have seen her muzzle turn completely black with dirt. We don't leave her outside alone very long. Otherwise the yard would look as if we had gophers. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 On 1/15/2011 5:24 PM, I wrote: > > The rule of them... Sorry, rule of thumb. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I know - no problem. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Â Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > The rule of them... Sorry, rule of thumb. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Most large companies, insurance companies and others, need to be monitored to help insure that they won't try to cut corners and cheat. Usually, these things only come to light when something bad happens, as in the Gulf Oil Spill which brought to light that the rig had been in bad condition and should have been fixed a long time before the accident.  Theories, different kinds of government, companies are all run and managed by people. It's not the institutions that fail, it's the people. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge!  Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 9:43 AM > > I have two newspapers delivered to my house each day; I usually read > much of the news in one of them. I skip most sports and advertisements. > > I suspect that if you follow up on some of the stories you will find > important facts left our or misrepresented. If not then you should be > able to find a follow-up story of the insurance company losing a > multi-million dollar lawsuit. Honestly, if such a case happened to a > child of yours where the insurance clearly failed to live up to its > contract do you think that you could step outside your door without > tripping over a dozen lawyers??? > > As I said before: I DO think we need to make some changes. I just > don't think the government bureaucracy is the entity to entrust with our > entire health care system. And I certainly do not have the expertise to > suggest all of the changes needed, especially knowing the insidious > nature of unintended consequences. > > Regards, > > . ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Yes this whole jumble of test or no test, treat with this that or the other thing, too much, too little, other factors. It's a thyroid jungle, and we are the prey. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge!  Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: More Numbers > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 9:53 AM > > I don't doubt that you know a lot more about some of the facets of > hypothyroidism than I do; I'm no expert. And further I haven't had the > years of searching for help that you did, and gained the knowledge that > you did along the way. > > I would also assume that you know that all of the T3 and T4 molecules > are bioidentical; Chuck and I have mentioned that many times. So it > surprised me that you seemed to be recommending an article written by > someone who is supposed to be some kind of expert but seems to be > lacking such elemental knowledge. Even if it's only for the purpose of > discussion it is IMHO totally confusing to start the discussion with a > number of incorrect facts unless the errors in those facts are clearly > pointed out. How else would someone new to this group and reading the > article be informed that Dr. K is full of bs? > > Regards, > > . ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Actually they do, since the treatments are usually way too expensive for most people to pay for themselves. I would not run an insurance company in the first place, unless they would let me study the model and make whatever changes I would want to do. No one is going to let me do that so it's a moot point.\  As illustration, I didn't have dental insurance and ended up with $15,000 of debt because of having to have extensive work done. I'm still struggling to pay that debt off. The interest rates are such that they take half of the amount I send them each month for interest, and I send them more than the minimum payment. When I was able to work, it wasn't so bad, but ever since I had to stop working it's a great burden. I never had problems like this before. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge!  Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > You've been fortunate . Others not so. People who had insurance and > > were taken down by deadly illnesses have been denied treatments that > > would have saved their lives, and died because of that. This includes > > chldren who were fully covered under their parents policies. These > > facts have been all over the news. I'm surprised you haven't seen them. > > > > The only cases I have seen reported involve experimental treatments or > ones approved for other conditions (off label) that might or might not > work. The " contracts " I have selected with insurance companies > explicitly exclude funding experiments for treatments outside the > medicare defined mainstream. > > If examples of deaths of fully covered children denied a contracted > treatment ex post facto is all over the news, you should have no problem > finding us an example, right? > > Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Chuck, Â I found this for you. Maybe something in there might help. I didn't read the whole thing. Â http://blog.timesunion.com/bark/category/housebreaking/ <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Â Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > She ate the bell. > > That's hilarious Chuck! LOL! She also eats twigs, bark, and paper if we don't watch her carefully. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 That's a difficult and painful situation; I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it go away. I'm sure many of us share in that. But I must admit I don't get the connection with insurance companies. Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:59 pm (PST) > > > > Actually they do, since the treatments are usually way too expensive > for most people to pay for themselves. I would not run an insurance > company in the first place, unless they would let me study the model > and make whatever changes I would want to do. No one is going to let > me do that so it's a moot point.\ > > As illustration, I didn't have dental insurance and ended up with > $15,000 of debt because of having to have extensive work done. I'm > still struggling to pay that debt off. The interest rates are such > that they take half of the amount I send them each month for interest, > and I send them more than the minimum payment. When I was able to > work, it wasn't so bad, but ever since I had to stop working it's a > great burden. I never had problems like this before. > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 The connection is that if you don't have insurance they charge outrageous prices which most of us cannot afford. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge!  Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: More Numbers hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 9:26 AM That's a difficult and painful situation; I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it go away. I'm sure many of us share in that. But I must admit I don't get the connection with insurance companies. Regards, .. .. >     Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... >     <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20More%20Numbers> >     matchermaam <matchermaam> > > >      Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:59 pm (PST) > > > > Actually they do, since the treatments are usually way too expensive > for most people to pay for themselves. I would not run an insurance > company in the first place, unless they would let me study the model > and make whatever changes I would want to do. No one is going to let > me do that so it's a moot point.\ > > As illustration, I didn't have dental insurance and ended up with > $15,000 of debt because of having to have extensive work done. I'm > still struggling to pay that debt off. The interest rates are such > that they take half of the amount I send them each month for interest, > and I send them more than the minimum payment. When I was able to > work, it wasn't so bad, but ever since I had to stop working it's a > great burden. I never had problems like this before. > > <>Roni ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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