T3

[Guest guest]

How much Nutri Adrenal Extra (NAX) are you taking Stephie and

when was the last time it was increased? Also, how much vitamin D are you

taking daily. Co Enzyme Q10 at 30mgs is a teeny dose, and when suffering the

symptoms of hypothyroidism, you need to take much larger doses than the

recommended daily dose. Also, how much magnesium and calcium are you

taking? You don't tell us what thyroid hormone replacement you are taking or

when that was last increased?

Luv - Sheila

I am under Dr P and take

NAX, and NA,

Vitamin C 4000 a day

D3 drops,

co enzyme Q10 30 MCG.

Iron is now 200 after taking spatone for some year and a half,

I use serenity night and morning.

Magnesium and calcium

Starflower Oil 100 mg

He has never mentioned Cortisol though.

I just thought that although I am better than I was, I would have had more

improvement, can't afford to have my fillings removed Im afraid.

bin seeing Dr P since late 2008 and I think he is mistified.

If I increase I get heart palpitations , headache, anxiety, body swells up all

over.

[Guest guest]

Are you drinking

loads of water, this often helps with belly distension - but also, this can

happen with adrenal fatigue. As something in the NAE appears not to be agreeing

with you, why not try one of the other adrenal supplements. Have you tried

adding Siberian Ginseng or liquorice? If you stop taking your NAX and NA, does

your belly distension go down? if you haven't tried the experiment, it might be

worth doing. Have you checked your ferritin level, B12, folate, copper

and zinc to see if any of these could be the culprit?

Luv - Sheila

I take one and a half NAX and one NA at breakfast and at lunch.

I have tried taking more NAX but my belly was so tight and swollen I could

hardly bend over in the shower if I dropped the Scrubby I wash with.

Dr p says something in the NAX is not agreeing with me so hence the mix of NA

and NAX.

Tried 8 NA tablets ( split dose) alone but all symptoms were back with a

vengance.

I take magnesium and calcium in one tablet 400 calcium and 200 magnesium.

Vitamin D3 drop 1 drop each day 1000u. Tried taking more initialy but gave me

bad headaches.

I take 25mcg of T4 morning and night and 10mcg of T3morning and 5mcg mid to

late afternoon.

If I take more of either med it makes me feel ill also if I take the doses

together instead of spaced out same problems arise.

Luv Stephie

--- >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

I do drink water but not as much as I used to when my bowels did not work well.

My Ferritin is

200 range 20-291 U

B12 328 range 260-911 U

Zinc 14.9 range 10.7 17.5

Serum folate 6.9

My liver function ( serum alanine aminiotransferase level )has been steadily

rising over time and is now

114 range 0-34

I am going for a liver ultrasoumd in two weeks.

When I tried taking less of the adrenal stuff as you suggest, I quickly got very

shaky and bad anxiety and back pain felt bad. I quickly started uping the dose

again. The NA seems to be not enough for me and so started with some NAXin the

mix again. It would seem the amount of pituitory in the NAX is not something I

can do without. My hair started coming out and could not go to the loo again. As

I say loads of symptoms back again.

I have not tried the Siberian Ginseng or liquorice.

I tried the Kelp and also the Vitamin B nuggets and they both brought on bad

headaches, I did try them seperately as well.

It is so expensive when you buy the meds and they do not work not to mention

disheartening.

My morning temps at 6.30am are 36.2 or 3 but if on my day off I take the temps

at 8am and they are 36.6

by night they are 36.1or2 again so the adrenals must still be poor?

Thanks for any advice on that.

Luv Stephie

>

> Are you drinking loads of water, this often helps with belly distension -

> but also, this can happen with adrenal fatigue. As something in the NAE

> appears not to be agreeing with you, why not try one of the other adrenal

> supplements. Have you tried adding Siberian Ginseng or liquorice? If you

> stop taking your NAX and NA, does your belly distension go down? if you

> >

>but my belly was so tight and swollen I could

> hardly bend over in the shower if I dropped the Scrubby I wash with.

> Dr p says something in the NAX is not agreeing with me so hence the mix of

> NA and NAX.

>

> >

>> --- >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

No the GP did not say anything was adrift with the B12! Neither did Dr P.

I will get the Ginseng and try to take the solgar nuggets again, if it gives me

headaches as before I will tell GP I need the Injections.

There was no range when they did the folate however I will double check on the

print out again just to be sure.

Thanks for the advice

Stephie

>

> O-Ho! The big culprit here is your very low B12. Vitamin B12 results should

> be at the TOP of the range, and yours is very close to the bottom - this

> needs supplementing with at least 1000mcgs sublingual B12 daily (Solgar is

> excellent) to build this level up. If you are unable to take the B12

> sublingually, then you need to report this to your GP and ask for a course

> of B12 injections. Did your GP tell you these were normal results? Also,

> what is the reference range for your folate?

>

> Try the Siberian Ginseng and Liquorice. Siberian Ginseng is the best and it

> is not expensive.

>

> >

>

> My Ferritin is

> 200 range 20-291 U

> B12 328 range 260-911 U

> Zinc 14.9 range 10.7 17.5

> Serum folate 6.9

> My liver function ( serum alanine aminiotransferase level )has been steadily

> rising over time and is now

> 114 range 0-34

> I am going for a liver ultrasoumd in two weeks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling in some ways, but the fact that you

are seeing some improvements is promising.

I have had my ups and downs. I am on day 5 today since completely stopping the

Erfa due to the leg pains coming back.

For the first 3 days I took 25mcg in 4 doses and the last 2 days I have had

30mcgs split into 6 small doses.

My temperatures had dropped on Erfa, so I have been tracking them since going

onto T3, my daily average has been 36.7, 36.6, 36.7 and today 36.8.

I felt dreadful yesterday and nearly went back on the erfa, but today I have

felt normal, so i am hoping that this is the way to go. will keep you posted and

good luck hope it continues to work for you too.

Love Lizzie

>

> Hi Lizzie,

>

> I've been away from the forum for a bit while I try and get my meds sorted. Am

I

> right in thinking that you've moved over to T3 alone ... if so, how's it going

?

>

> I tried ERFA and T3 combo for a bit but got in a mess so then switched solely

to

> T3 and still got it horribly wrong for about two weeks. I then took nothing

but

> adrenal support for a few days then re-started on just the T3. Right now I am

on

> a tiny dose of just 2.5mg every three hours... and feeling much more stable

> (though under-dosed). Next week I aim to increase to my dose slightly, though

> haven't decided by how much yet.... it's tricky cutting up the pills into

> anything less than 2.5mg. I see my endo on the 5th...he might have some ideas.

>

> Now that I've got the 'feel' of coming up and dipping down on the T3 I feel

more

> confident about increasing the dose, though only by a bit. My only worry is

that

> my bp is low... 105/72. My temp is still stuck at a steady 36.4, so obviously

> still undermedicated, but all in all I'm more hopeful. My brain is crystal

clear

> for the first time in years and all the time I'm 'up' on the T3, I have NO

joint

> or muscle pain. Sleeping still sucks however.....no change there (horrible

> nightmares too, which is new).

>

> I'd be very interested to hear how you're getting along........

>

> julia

>

[Guest guest]

, have you asked y our GP to test your ferritin, vitamin

B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc, because if not, do so. If

any of these are low in the reference range, no amount of thyroid hormone is

going to work until whatever is low is supplemented. Also, is there a chance

you could be suffering with low adrenal reserve with your horrendous nights.

You can get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile to see where your DHEA and

Cortisl levels are at 4 specific times during the day - and you might find your

cortisol secretion at night is too high. Again, this will stop the thyroid

hormone from working, as will systemic candidiasis, if you suffer with this.

Luv - Sheila

Now that I've

got the 'feel' of coming up and dipping down on the T3 I feel more confident

about increasing the dose, though only by a bit. My only worry is that my

bp is low... 105/72. My temp is still stuck at a steady 36.4, so obviously

still undermedicated, but all in all I'm more hopeful. My brain is crystal

clear for the first time in years and all the time I'm 'up' on the T3, I have

NO joint or muscle pain. Sleeping still sucks however.....no change there

(horrible nightmares too, which is new).

[Guest guest]

·

Everything crossed Lizzie, including my eyes.

·

Luv - Sheila

I have had my ups and downs. I am on day 5 today since completely stopping the

Erfa due to the leg pains coming back.

For the first 3 days I took 25mcg in 4 doses and the last 2 days I have had

30mcgs split into 6 small doses.

My temperatures had dropped on Erfa, so I have been tracking them since going

onto T3, my daily average has been 36.7, 36.6, 36.7 and today 36.8.

I felt dreadful yesterday and nearly went back on the erfa, but today I have

felt normal, so i am hoping that this is the way to go. will keep you posted

and good luck hope it continues to work for you too.

Love Lizzie

---

[Guest guest]

Dear Sheila

Thank you.

I decided to send my repeat prescription into the docs to see if I could get

away with it.

Today my husband collected a prescription for me for 100 20mcg tabs of

Liothyronine sodium, no questions asked.

This gives me leeway now to see if it works without having to pay out.

So pleased.

Love Lizzie

Everything crossed Lizzie, including my eyes.

[Guest guest]

brilliant Lizzie, I am so pleased for you, and I hope whatever

treatment protocol you decide to try will do the trick.

Luv - Sheila

Dear Sheila

Thank you.

I decided to send my repeat prescription into the docs to see if I could get

away with it.

Today my husband collected a prescription for me for 100 20mcg tabs of

Liothyronine sodium, no questions asked.

This gives me leeway now to see if it works without having to pay out.

So pleased.

Love Lizzie

Everything crossed Lizzie, including my eyes.

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[Guest guest]

They would have to give me loads then - but that would prove very expensive.   Presumably that is for T3 only and not combined with T4 though.

 

Lilian

 

your recent message about T3 dosing just hit me with a lightbulb moment- you said that dosing was up to a max of 1.6mcg per Kg. Now for me that would be about 125mcg- I've found that 110mcg worked fine- so that makes sense.

Now several times I've heard from UK folk being told by their docs that they are 'not allowed' to prescribe more than 60mcg T3- which is inadequate

[Guest guest]

Hi , What I really meant to ask was- do you have any papers to support this dosing regime?Lilian, My point is that 60mcg is insufficient for almost anyone on T3 alone. Subject: Re: T3

They would have to give me loads then - but that would prove very expensive. Presumably that is for T3 only and not combined with T4 though.

Lilian

your recent message about T3 dosing just hit me with a lightbulb moment- you said that dosing was up to a max of 1.6mcg per Kg. Now for me that would be about 125mcg- I've found that 110mcg worked fine- so that makes sense.

Now several times I've heard from UK folk being told by their docs that they are 'not allowed' to prescribe more than 60mcg T3- which is inadequate

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:43:19 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Now several times I've heard from UK folk being told by their docs that they

are 'not allowed' to prescribe more than 60mcg T3- which is inadequate.

From

http://kingpharm.com/products/product_document.cfm?brand_name=Cortisporin & produc\

t_specific_name=Otic%20Solution%20Sterile & document_type_code=PI

(Cytomel manufacturers site)

>DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION

>The dosage of thyroid hormones is determined by the indication and must in

every case be individualized according to patient response and laboratory

findings.

>Cytomel (liothyronine sodium) Tablets are intended for oral admin- istration;

once-a-day dosage is recommended. Although liothyronine sodium has a rapid

cutoff, its metabolic effects per- sist for a few days following discontinuance.

>Mild Hypothyroidism: Recommended starting dosage is 25 mcg daily. Daily dosage

then may be increased by up to 25 mcg every

>1 or 2 weeks. Usual maintenance dose is 25 to 75 mcg daily.

They are at least recommending up to 75 and this is ammunition if you

need it for a Dr

Patients have learnt more about how to use the hormone effectively

than the manufacturers though, their dosing would not work for me

The part on that leaflet that makes me smile the most though from the

way Drs behave is this

>CONTRAINDICATIONS

>Thyroid hormone preparations are generally contraindicated in patients with

diagnosed but as yet uncorrected adrenal cortical insufficiency, untreated

thyrotoxicosis and apparent hypersensi- tivity to any of their active or

extraneous constituents. There is no well-documented evidence from the

literature, however, of true allergic or idiosyncratic reactions to thyroid

hormone.

Why can't Dr's get their heads around checking adrenals and supporting

them if necessary

Nick

[Guest guest]

Hi Nick,

[[ Why can't Dr's get their heads around checking adrenals and supporting them if necessary ]]

My recently retired doctor said it's a medico-legal thing...

plus, the older ones's recall the overdosng of hydrocortisone from the 1950-60s era ....

So the suepicion is that the newly trained doctors don't have the experience and the older ones are too frightened to use/recommend its use.

Bob

> > >> >Now several times I've heard from UK folk being told by their docs that they are 'not allowed' to prescribe more than 60mcg T3- which is inadequate.

[Guest guest]

So if the younger one's don't have the experience because they

are not trained, why don't the middle-aged one's teach them in medical school -

and leave the old one's to dodder on their way? There's not a lot to learn - if

we can learn, then surely qualified doctors can.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Nick,

[[ Why can't Dr's get their heads around checking

adrenals and supporting them if necessary ]]

My recently retired doctor said it's a medico-legal thing...

plus, the older ones's recall the overdosng of hydrocortisone from the

1950-60s era ....

So the suepicion is that the newly trained doctors don't have the experience

and the older ones are too frightened to use/recommend its use.

Bob

>

> >

> >Now several times I've heard from UK folk being told by their docs

that they are 'not allowed' to prescribe more than 60mcg T3- which is inadequate.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila- Is the problem who is teaching the students this subject ? In todays

NHS they all specialise -so who are the experts doing the teaching -the endos .

Maybe teaching in Medical schools needs to be a little more searching !! If we

can work it out[despite the brain fog] they certainly should . Best wishes

[Guest guest]

I saw an endo the other day who had a student with him. Whilst he was talking to me he was teaching her the same old rubbish, which no doubt she will end up teaching to her student when she is an endo.

I have noticed that people who are academic seem to lack common sense, and a lot of the medics thinking is very lacking in common sense.

So I would say definitely the problem is who is teaching the students.

Lilian

Is the problem who is teaching the students this subject ?

[Guest guest]

….and we all know why the teaching is so abysmal -

PROFESSOR ANTHONY WEETMAN IS HEAD OF ALL MEDICAL SCHOOLS.

Luv - Sheila

I saw an endo the other day who had a student with

him. Whilst he was talking to me he was teaching her the same

old rubbish, which no doubt she will end up teaching to her student when she is

an endo.

I have noticed that people who are academic seem to

lack common sense, and a lot of the medics thinking is very lacking in

common sense.

So I would say definitely the problem is who is teaching the

students.

Lilian

Is the problem who is teaching the students this

subject ?

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[Guest guest]

Most definitely, and we all know that PROFESSOR ANTHONY WEETMAN

is Head of all Medical Schools in the UK. Say no more.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila- Is the problem who is teaching the

students this subject ? In todays NHS they all specialise -so who are the

experts doing the teaching -the endos . Maybe teaching in Medical schools needs

to be a little more searching !! If we can work it out[despite the brain fog]

they certainly should . Best wishes

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[Guest guest]

You should have objected, if your endo is stupid there is no reason to allow him

to pass it on during your appointment!!!!!!

Glynis

> I saw an endo the other day who had a student with him. Whilst he was

talking to me he was teaching her the same old rubbish, which no doubt she will

end up teaching to her student when she is an endo.

>

> I have noticed that people who are academic seem to lack common sense, and a

lot of the medics thinking is very lacking in common sense.

>

> Is the problem who is teaching the students this subject ?

>

[Guest guest]

I did object but was 'quietly' shouted down e.g. fell on deaf ear subject agreed between them and then changed.  

 

Lilian

On 7 November 2010 12:05, glynisrose06 <arianrhod@...> wrote:

You should have objected, if your endo is stupid there is no reason to allow him to pass it on during your appointment!!!!!!

Glynis

[Guest guest]

i hope the student just feigned *deaf ear* and had the open mind to think more

on what ever you said.

trish

>

> I did object but was 'quietly' shouted down e.g. fell on deaf ear subject

> agreed between them and then changed.

>

> Lilian

[Guest guest]

In that case you should have refused to say a word or acknowledge the doctor

till the student had left the room, it is YOUR decision as to whethere the

student stays for your consultation and you should ring PALS and make an

official complaint.

Glynis

> I did object but was 'quietly' shouted down e.g. fell on deaf ear subject

> agreed between them and then changed.

>

> Lilian

[Guest guest]

Surely not over all of them? I went to see the head teaching prof at a certain

hospital and although he was a BTA rep he was head of endocrinology. Right

***hole he was too, bedside manner of psycopath!!

Is he not still in Leicester?

Glynis

Most definitely, and we all know that PROFESSOR ANTHONY WEETMAN is Head of

> all Medical Schools in the UK. Say no more.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Glynis I think the general rule should be that we all need to take our

partner or a good friend when seeing an endo [for the first time]-if a

complaint to Pals etc is needed -you have your own witness.We are not at our

best before treatment so I think support is essential .Best wishes

[Guest guest]

I agree with that, I went with my sister for her first appointment to see the

same endo I see.

I have to say though that some years back I went for an appointment with a heart

specialist, he had a student in the room, he asked me if it was OK and I said

no, I would prefer speaking to him alone, the student was asked to leave, she

didn't seem bothered, neither did the specialist.

Its a matter of respect and I am of the belief that we should strive to keep

that respect at all times, no one will just give you respect, you have to show

it, earn it, use it. I know it can be hard sometimes but you just have to

reinforce that you are a person, an individual, at every opportunity, or you

will be dismissed, ignored and treated badly.

Glynis

>

.................the general rule should be that we all need to take our partner

or a good friend when seeing an endo [for the first time]-if a complaint to

Pals etc is needed -you have your own witness.We are not at our best before

treatment so I think support is essential .Best wishes

>