Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 In a message dated 3/7/00 9:25:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, twmom@... writes: << I am going throught the grieving phase. It doesn't seem to affect my husbad the same way >> Dear Terri, Me too... Today at the school book fair lo and behold there was a book mentioned on this site " Kissing Doorknobs " . I sorta gasped in surprised and then picked it up to read the back. I started to cry right there not because my son shares the same symptoms of the girl in the book, but the pain is SO familiar. My son calls his bad thoughts BT's and until just a few days ago I thought that they were basically worries about something bad happening. As it turns out, it is his worries that if he does something (touch something) then something bad will happen unless he undoes it by touching it (or something else) again. He also worries that he has damaged things by just brushing against them. So, if misery loves company, babes you got it ;-) It is good to hear you are doing something for yourself. We have a daughter starting college in the fall, so I have just had to take a part time job. My son is NOT happy about this, and I am afraid it could adversely affect him (It is the 6-10 shift at night). His dad will be home, and I'll be home after school and for dinner, so I hope he can adjust. This is a case where mom has to do something for the family (like...pay bills ha). Keep us posted. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 Welcome! You need to check the resources at www.ocfoundation.org and at www.ocdsca.org Dr. Grayson is located near Philadelphia. I think Drs Edna Foa and Jon Abramowitz are near there also Grayson, Ph.D. Director Anxiety & Agoraphobia Treatment Center Bala Cynwyd, PA (610) 667 - 6490 S. Abramowitz, Ph.D. University of Pennsylvania Center for Treatment and Study of Anxiety 3535 Market Street, 6th floor Philadelphia, PA 19104 tel: 215-746-3327 fax: 215-746-3311 e-mail: abramow2@... Good Luck jim in san diego ' jjmcf@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 Hi Terri: Welcome to the list and thank you for posting about yourself and your family. Yes you are lucky to be in PA. Here is some information about Dr. Edna Foa and her affiliations: Edna B. Foa, Ph.D. Profesor at Allegheny University of the Health Sciences, East Falls Campus (formerly the Medical College of Pennsylvania and Hahnemann University) and Director of the Center for the Treatment and Study of Anxiety, is an internationally renowned authority on the psychopathology and treatment of anxiety. There are also other great OCD docs in PA, but I think Dr. Foa is the one who has the treatment center you have been reading about. CBT with E & RP is the first line treatment recommended by the Expert Consensus Guidelines for treating kids with OCD. We have on this list several moms with kids even younger than Evan who are doing E & RP. The challenge is to find professionals skilled in working with young children and doing this kind of therapy with them. Many kids can be treated just with therapy and no meds. Many docs do not know this however. For kids whose OCD is severe or complicated by other tricky alphabet soup, meds may be required as well as CBT. My son, Steve, also has violent and sexual obsessions. He has told me very little about the violent obsessions (mostly non-verbal communication on this) and even less about the sexual obsessions. These are very normal for OCD and I hope Evan realizes this. It can take 10-12 weeks to get an OCDer up to the effective SSRI dosage for OCD. This does take a lot of patience and determination. What dosage of Zoloft is Evan on? Response to CBT can happen within a few sessions if the mental health practitioner is skilled. When Steve did his last round of the March protocol he would get therapy three times a week for a couple of hours each time and things really started to turn around fast. The first couple of times on the March protocol he really struggled to get going, we had to learn never to give up. Thanks again for posting, please write again soon and tell us how you are coping with the grieving, it is a hard job to do this. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H) kathyh@... At 12:21 PM 03/07/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: twmom@... > >Dear OCD Parenting list, > >I have been lurking on here for several weeks and learning alot, decided it's >time to introduce myself. I'm another Theresa, but I go by Terri. Like some >others, I got on this list before my son was diagnosed officially, as soon as >i suspected OCD. > >My children are Cara, 10, a precocious reader and spirited child, >Evan, 7 , OCD and ADHD, and , 4. > >We homeschool, and always have, not because of OCD or for religious reasons. >I decided my educational philosophy when my first child was a toddler. Mostly >it works well for us, but I have been feeling very stressed lately, in part >because Evan's behavior interferes with learning.- his and his sisters'. On >the other hand,because of homeschooling, I feel his self esteem is still >intact, a big plus. > >We live in Lancaster,PA, so i was wondering about the references to an OCD >therapy program in PA - Where is this? more details, please? > >Evan was officially diagnosed 2 weeks ago, He started on Zoloft the next day. >I haven't seen any effect yet. I was told it could take 6 - 8 weeks - that >seemd really long to me! Anyone have any info to share on that? The dr hopes >to get theOCD, a bit under control before we tackle the ADHD with any meds. >The hyperactivity and defiance is making me crazy some days and I wish I >could give him something, This is a big change for me - a year ago - when the >ADHD was confirmed, I was so against medication and explored many >alternatives - none of which helped him. > >We are seeing a pyschologist, weekly at the moment. Still just getting some >rapport there and getting him to focus and be willing to talk about his " bad >thoughts " . Is Eand RP therapy possible at his age? I appreciated the recent >expalanations of it on this list and I plan to get the March books soon. He >has thoughts about killing people, about being killed, about being in others >families, about seeing peoples privates. He can not promise anything, has >(totally unfounded) concerns about having damaged things, about whether he >has told the truth. Often he has to whisper these things to his Dad or me. He >is one very anxious kid. He did have a brief bout with handwashing about 2 >years ago, but it was only about 2 weeks, we attributed it to learning about >germs. The intense bad thoughts started in January. he also has worries about >bad things he may have done in the past, ie not told the truth when asked >whether he had ever tried a certain kind of cracker. only folks on this list >can understand about obsessing about something like that. > >I am going throught the grieving phase. It doesn't seem to affect my husbad >the same way. He is supportive, but not as stressed as I am. I do have >supportive family near. one sister with 5 kids of her own, who will watch >mine as neede for the appointments, and another, with a MEd in Special Ed who >is very supportive emotionally. And I do try to take care of myself - for me >that's going to the gym, allowing time for my reading and phone calls. bit, I >do appreciate the reminders I see on this list. Sorry this is so long-winded, >it has taken time and courage for me to post. Thanks in advance for any >answers. >Terri in PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 Hi Terri: Welcome to the list and thank you for posting about yourself and your family. Yes you are lucky to be in PA. Here is some information about Dr. Edna Foa and her affiliations: Edna B. Foa, Ph.D. Profesor at Allegheny University of the Health Sciences, East Falls Campus (formerly the Medical College of Pennsylvania and Hahnemann University) and Director of the Center for the Treatment and Study of Anxiety, is an internationally renowned authority on the psychopathology and treatment of anxiety. There are also other great OCD docs in PA, but I think Dr. Foa is the one who has the treatment center you have been reading about. CBT with E & RP is the first line treatment recommended by the Expert Consensus Guidelines for treating kids with OCD. We have on this list several moms with kids even younger than Evan who are doing E & RP. The challenge is to find professionals skilled in working with young children and doing this kind of therapy with them. Many kids can be treated just with therapy and no meds. Many docs do not know this however. For kids whose OCD is severe or complicated by other tricky alphabet soup, meds may be required as well as CBT. My son, Steve, also has violent and sexual obsessions. He has told me very little about the violent obsessions (mostly non-verbal communication on this) and even less about the sexual obsessions. These are very normal for OCD and I hope Evan realizes this. It can take 10-12 weeks to get an OCDer up to the effective SSRI dosage for OCD. This does take a lot of patience and determination. What dosage of Zoloft is Evan on? Response to CBT can happen within a few sessions if the mental health practitioner is skilled. When Steve did his last round of the March protocol he would get therapy three times a week for a couple of hours each time and things really started to turn around fast. The first couple of times on the March protocol he really struggled to get going, we had to learn never to give up. Thanks again for posting, please write again soon and tell us how you are coping with the grieving, it is a hard job to do this. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H) kathyh@... At 12:21 PM 03/07/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: twmom@... > >Dear OCD Parenting list, > >I have been lurking on here for several weeks and learning alot, decided it's >time to introduce myself. I'm another Theresa, but I go by Terri. Like some >others, I got on this list before my son was diagnosed officially, as soon as >i suspected OCD. > >My children are Cara, 10, a precocious reader and spirited child, >Evan, 7 , OCD and ADHD, and , 4. > >We homeschool, and always have, not because of OCD or for religious reasons. >I decided my educational philosophy when my first child was a toddler. Mostly >it works well for us, but I have been feeling very stressed lately, in part >because Evan's behavior interferes with learning.- his and his sisters'. On >the other hand,because of homeschooling, I feel his self esteem is still >intact, a big plus. > >We live in Lancaster,PA, so i was wondering about the references to an OCD >therapy program in PA - Where is this? more details, please? > >Evan was officially diagnosed 2 weeks ago, He started on Zoloft the next day. >I haven't seen any effect yet. I was told it could take 6 - 8 weeks - that >seemd really long to me! Anyone have any info to share on that? The dr hopes >to get theOCD, a bit under control before we tackle the ADHD with any meds. >The hyperactivity and defiance is making me crazy some days and I wish I >could give him something, This is a big change for me - a year ago - when the >ADHD was confirmed, I was so against medication and explored many >alternatives - none of which helped him. > >We are seeing a pyschologist, weekly at the moment. Still just getting some >rapport there and getting him to focus and be willing to talk about his " bad >thoughts " . Is Eand RP therapy possible at his age? I appreciated the recent >expalanations of it on this list and I plan to get the March books soon. He >has thoughts about killing people, about being killed, about being in others >families, about seeing peoples privates. He can not promise anything, has >(totally unfounded) concerns about having damaged things, about whether he >has told the truth. Often he has to whisper these things to his Dad or me. He >is one very anxious kid. He did have a brief bout with handwashing about 2 >years ago, but it was only about 2 weeks, we attributed it to learning about >germs. The intense bad thoughts started in January. he also has worries about >bad things he may have done in the past, ie not told the truth when asked >whether he had ever tried a certain kind of cracker. only folks on this list >can understand about obsessing about something like that. > >I am going throught the grieving phase. It doesn't seem to affect my husbad >the same way. He is supportive, but not as stressed as I am. I do have >supportive family near. one sister with 5 kids of her own, who will watch >mine as neede for the appointments, and another, with a MEd in Special Ed who >is very supportive emotionally. And I do try to take care of myself - for me >that's going to the gym, allowing time for my reading and phone calls. bit, I >do appreciate the reminders I see on this list. Sorry this is so long-winded, >it has taken time and courage for me to post. Thanks in advance for any >answers. >Terri in PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2000 Report Share Posted September 7, 2000 Hi Amy, When my son was about 5, he would only wear shorts for the whole year. He refused to wear long pants. Luckily we live I n southern Ca. so that wasn't a problem(LOL) but at the time we just thought it was a quirk. Now we know it's OCD. Terry Intro and Questions Hi Everyone,I've been reading the list for a few weeks now, and lately have decided tojump in and introduce myself, so here goes! My 5.75-year-old son, Graham,was diagnosed with OCD by a developmental pediatrician this past May. Westarted working with a psychologist recommended by the pediatrician in June.The psychologist also feels Graham has OCD, and has already (after only 5sessions) started telling us we may need to see a psychiatrist about puttingGraham on medication, which came as a shock to both my husband and myself,as we didn't think the subject of medication would be discussed before allpossible cognitive behavioral interventions had been tried, although whatexactly CBT could do for us I don't know yet.The best way to describe Graham is to say he is a child who is just brimmingwith anxiety. As I mentioned in my earlier post about fire drills, he isvery sensitive to loud noises and any other sudden surprises. He startlesvery easily (and has since day one). He is in constant motion here at home,except when he's watching t.v. or playing a computer game. His ritualisticbehavior is a movement-based one. He likes to jump back and forth on thecouch or pace back and forth on the floor while shaking a key on a key chainin front of his eyes and telling a "story" based on his favorite t.v. show("Digimon") accompanied by repetitive noises. This ritual (which somehow wenamed "jiggling"; don't ask me why) usually lasts anywhere from five totwenty minutes, and Graham probably spends a total of one to two hours everyday doing it. When he isn't "jiggling", he seems to need to self calm inother ways, so he jumps on the bed, or spins, or repeatedly presses his faceinto his favorite blankie or pillows, or stands on his head on the couch, oris aggressive toward his two-year-old brother (which may be more than anattention-seeking behavior; it almost seems cathartic for him in some ways).Graham seems to lack, I guess because of the anxiety, a locus of motivationwithin himself. He can't self-initiate play in the way other kids do. Hehas to be entertained, either by me, his dad, or another person, or the t.v.or computer. Despite the fact that he seems to need to move to self-calm,he refuses to learn to ride a bike or play any backyard sports.Graham has attended a Montessori school for the past three years. Up untilabout eight months ago, he showed no interest in playing with other childreneither at school or outside of school. Thankfully, in the latter part ofthis past school year the desire to have friends appeared, and he made a fewfriends at school and started playing regularly with three boys in ourneighborhood. He plays so nicely with his friends, which is just a joy tosee. And it does provide a kind of break for me, because he is able towithhold the anxiety symptoms to a certain extent when he's with his friends(or at school).I do have some questions for the list. Graham's psychologist seems focusedon getting to know Graham in therapy to try to find out if there are anyobsessive thoughts and addressing Graham's lack of eye contact anddifficulty approaching his teachers at school. Should we also try to beaddressing the jiggling, self-calming, lack of ability to self-initiate athome? Wouldn't it be the case that if we tried to "extinguish" thejiggling, we'd be cruelly depriving him of his primary means ofself-calming, and forcing him to channel the anxiety into some other ritual?What exactly should our goals be, and is medication the only answer? Also,what exactly is E & RP and how does it work with regard to rigid behaviors(like his refusal to wear shirts with collars, to name one of manyexamples).Sorry to have gone on so long. I will echo what others have said about itbeing such a relief to have found a list where I can talk openly about oursituation. Thank you for being here, and for being such a supportive,well-informed, and positive group.Amy in NJYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD . You may access the files, links, and archives for our list at http://www.egoups.com/group/ . Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2000 Report Share Posted September 7, 2000 Hi Amy: Thanks for introducing yourself and Graham to the list. YOu are very lucky to have a pediatrician who recognizes OCD and who can refer you to someone who can help. Have you asked Graham's psychologist why he is recommending medication? The expert consensus guidelines for OCD recommend CBT (with E & RP) only for mild to moderate OCD. Do you think Graham has any other disorders as well as OCD? Our son, Steve, has major depressive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder as well as OCD. THe MDD really complicates his situation and he is on medication for that. THe OCD is pretty much handled by the CBT. It can be very difficult to find skilled and experienced CBT therapists who know how to treat quite young children. Often as a parent you will be very much involved as a co-therapist. The state-of-the-art treatment protocol for OCD is the March protocol described in his and Mulle's book, " Obsessive COmpulsive Disorder in Children and Adolescents " . ALthough this is a treatment manual aimed at professionals I think this is a very important resource for all parents with kids with OCD. We also have two wonderful docs on this list who have written books about the treatment of OCD with E & RP. Dr. March's protocol is research based, and like so much in mental illness, treatments do need to be customized to each individual child. Nevertheless the treatments which are of proven effectiveness in OCD involve facing fears, yes, wearing those yucky collars, etc. This is done in a graduated manner and with a young child rewards and incentives are used to turn the experience into as much fun as possible. The problem with OCD rituals/compulsions is that they only provide temporary self-calming and actually in the long run only reinforce the obsessions or feeling that things are not right or general feeling of unease. Often young children lack insight into their thoughts and behaviors and find it hard to explain what is going on. Parents have to develop detective skills to uncover the nature of their obsessions. I found reading about different kinds of obsessions and compulsions helped me to develop an understanding of what my son was going through. He has/had most of the OCD flavors commonly described, except perhaps hoarding. An important part of doing E & RP is to develop a hierachy of OCD symptoms as this helps in developing a graduated approach to doing exposures. Does Graham's psychologist have a hierarchy of his symptoms yet and have they developed a plan with goals to work on? Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H) kathyh@... At 11:45 AM 09/07/2000 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Everyone, > >I've been reading the list for a few weeks now, and lately have decided to >jump in and introduce myself, so here goes! My 5.75-year-old son, Graham, >was diagnosed with OCD by a developmental pediatrician this past May. We >started working with a psychologist recommended by the pediatrician in June. >The psychologist also feels Graham has OCD, and has already (after only 5 >sessions) started telling us we may need to see a psychiatrist about putting >Graham on medication, which came as a shock to both my husband and myself, >as we didn't think the subject of medication would be discussed before all >possible cognitive behavioral interventions had been tried, although what >exactly CBT could do for us I don't know yet. > >The best way to describe Graham is to say he is a child who is just brimming >with anxiety. As I mentioned in my earlier post about fire drills, he is >very sensitive to loud noises and any other sudden surprises. He startles >very easily (and has since day one). He is in constant motion here at home, >except when he's watching t.v. or playing a computer game. His ritualistic >behavior is a movement-based one. He likes to jump back and forth on the >couch or pace back and forth on the floor while shaking a key on a key chain >in front of his eyes and telling a " story " based on his favorite t.v. show >( " Digimon " ) accompanied by repetitive noises. This ritual (which somehow we >named " jiggling " ; don't ask me why) usually lasts anywhere from five to >twenty minutes, and Graham probably spends a total of one to two hours every >day doing it. When he isn't " jiggling " , he seems to need to self calm in >other ways, so he jumps on the bed, or spins, or repeatedly presses his face >into his favorite blankie or pillows, or stands on his head on the couch, or >is aggressive toward his two-year-old brother (which may be more than an >attention-seeking behavior; it almost seems cathartic for him in some ways). >Graham seems to lack, I guess because of the anxiety, a locus of motivation >within himself. He can't self-initiate play in the way other kids do. He >has to be entertained, either by me, his dad, or another person, or the t.v. >or computer. Despite the fact that he seems to need to move to self-calm, >he refuses to learn to ride a bike or play any backyard sports. > >Graham has attended a Montessori school for the past three years. Up until >about eight months ago, he showed no interest in playing with other children >either at school or outside of school. Thankfully, in the latter part of >this past school year the desire to have friends appeared, and he made a few >friends at school and started playing regularly with three boys in our >neighborhood. He plays so nicely with his friends, which is just a joy to >see. And it does provide a kind of break for me, because he is able to >withhold the anxiety symptoms to a certain extent when he's with his friends >(or at school). > >I do have some questions for the list. Graham's psychologist seems focused >on getting to know Graham in therapy to try to find out if there are any >obsessive thoughts and addressing Graham's lack of eye contact and >difficulty approaching his teachers at school. Should we also try to be >addressing the jiggling, self-calming, lack of ability to self-initiate at >home? Wouldn't it be the case that if we tried to " extinguish " the >jiggling, we'd be cruelly depriving him of his primary means of >self-calming, and forcing him to channel the anxiety into some other ritual? >What exactly should our goals be, and is medication the only answer? Also, >what exactly is E & RP and how does it work with regard to rigid behaviors >(like his refusal to wear shirts with collars, to name one of many >examples). > >Sorry to have gone on so long. I will echo what others have said about it >being such a relief to have found a list where I can talk openly about our >situation. Thank you for being here, and for being such a supportive, >well-informed, and positive group. > >Amy in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2000 Report Share Posted September 7, 2000 Amy: I will preface this post by saying that I am NOT a psychologist, but your description of your son sounds much more to me like aspergers syndrome than a simple case of OCD. The repetitive movements sound a lot like " stimming " . The poor eye contact and lack of social skills are also indicative of AS. Many of our kids have comorbid disorders -- my son who is 12 is on the autism spectrum as well as OCD, ADHD, and depression. I probably left some other alphabet soup out. I would recommend doing a search on " aspergers " and see if what you find clicks with you. As Kathy says, CBT is the first line of treatment for kids with OCD; that being said, however, it is sometimes necessary for medication to be prescribed to reduce the anxiety to a level where the child is able and willing to participate. In addition, if he has trouble expressing what his anxieties are, CBT won't necessarily help. I would get a second opinion on the diagnosis myself. Barb Kirby's website is an excellent place to start for info on aspergers. http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/ Jule in Cleveland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 At 11:45 AM 9/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >I've been reading the list for a few weeks now, and lately have decided to >jump in and introduce myself, so here goes! My 5.75-year-old son, Graham, >was diagnosed with OCD by a developmental pediatrician this past May. He can't self-initiate play in the way other kids do. He>has to be entertained, either by me, his dad, or another person, or the t.v.>or computer. Despite the fact that he seems to need to move to self-calm,>he refuses to learn to ride a bike or play any backyard sports. >Amy in NJ Your description reminds me of my son, who was first diagnosed with OCD and then with Asperger's Syndrome a few months later. That might not fit Graham, but he certainly sounds like he has sensory integration problems, which are typical for a lot of kids with Asperger's and other spectrum disorders. You might ask doctors about that. -- Vicki in MT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 At 11:45 AM 9/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >I've been reading the list for a few weeks now, and lately have decided to >jump in and introduce myself, so here goes! My 5.75-year-old son, Graham, >was diagnosed with OCD by a developmental pediatrician this past May. He can't self-initiate play in the way other kids do. He>has to be entertained, either by me, his dad, or another person, or the t.v.>or computer. Despite the fact that he seems to need to move to self-calm,>he refuses to learn to ride a bike or play any backyard sports. >Amy in NJ Your description reminds me of my son, who was first diagnosed with OCD and then with Asperger's Syndrome a few months later. That might not fit Graham, but he certainly sounds like he has sensory integration problems, which are typical for a lot of kids with Asperger's and other spectrum disorders. You might ask doctors about that. -- Vicki in MT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hi, I'm new to this list, and have some questions....but should probably introduce myself. I am 50 years old and live in the foothills in southern Colorado. I raise goats, chickens and have 7 dogs! They protect my goat herd from the predators in the area. I have been dealing with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue since early adulthood. Spinal fusion surgery four years ago threw me into the worst episode of pain in 15 years, with a very severe flare up for the past two months. I have been reading about the whey products and wondered if the whey from the cheese that I make could be dehydrated and used in the same manner. I usually feed it to the chickens! I also wondered if anyone has tried the colostrum based products and if they helped? My last question is about Herxing...can someone explain what that means, or will me where to find out? I just visited with my doctor today, and he is very interested in the experimental treatments! I am very fortunate that he is very unlike previous medical personnel I have dealt with! Thanks, Connie T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 hi cleo! nice to meet you. i also have 2 sons in the military. both are in the army national guard. my eldest was in bosnia last year. so this year, when the ct ang mp's were activiated, they called him to volunteer. luckily the mandatory call never came, and the unit shipped out. my other son just transferred to an army air ng unit. his training was not complete, so they left him bhind when they deployed. i am sure they will be going in the future, as reinforcements will be needed to keep peace and pick up the pieces. however, they both remain on 'alert'. i will keep your sons in my prayers. this is a nerve wracking time for all of us. eventhough, we as parents and relatives, remain very proud of these children. i know many people whose sons and daughters are deployed. and of a few husbands. if you ever need to vent at someone, i am available. i am just beginning to think about lotions and such also. i do alot of different crafts, and am most comfortable with a paint brush or a sewing machine or glue gun.. nice to meet you, anne btw i have been married for 27 yrs, to the same man. i work with the elderly thru a nursing agency, and have some private jobs. i do household chores, and run outside errands and take them to and from appointments. it is so rewarding towork with such a wonderful group of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Cleo, I have been raising goats for nearly 20 years and making soap for nearly a decade. My favorite recipe was borrowed from the New Brunswick (Canada) Dairy Goat Association web site. I will include it for you. I keep a record of how I've tweaked this basic recipe (increasing milk or substituting a different oil, etc). So far, the recipe has never failed. I've tried herbal teas in place of some of the liquid and I've infused oils with herbs. Its a very addictive hobby. Have fun and good luck. Suzy in Nebraska Basic Goat Milk and Honey Soap #2 13 cups rendered fat (6.5 pounds) 1 plastic bottle red Devil lye 1/2 cup honey 4 cups goat milk 1 cup hot water Into a large stainless steel or enamel container, dissolve the honey into the hot water. Add the 4 cups goat milk, stir to mix well and slowly add the lye to the milk/honey mixture. You will want to wear rubber or latex gloves to prevent yourself from getting any splashes on you. Also, put the milk pan in a sink of cold water and ice cubes as you add the lye. This will get very hot. If your milk starts to turn orange, you're adding the lye too fast. Let it set until it cools down to 75 degrees. This could take an hour or more. When the lye mixture reaches 75 degrees, warm the lard to 85 degrees and pour in a slow steady stream into the lye/milk mixture. Stir constantly until the mixture reaches the consistency of honey. This will take 20 or 30 minutes. When thick as honey pour into prepared molds. Allow to set for 24 to 48 hours. Un-mold and cut into bars. Air-dry the soap for 4-5 weeks to cure it. ---------------------------- Here is a recipe from an actual goat newsletter. This one works well, too and has all of the safety precautions included. > Saanen News Quarterly, Feb 1997 included a worksheet on GOAT MILK SOAP. > This page includes the basic recipe plus safety tips. You can make > enough hand soap to last your whole family for a year for just pennies a > bar. > > SAFETY > NEVER, NEVER make soap with young children around or pets in the > house. The concentration of lye used in soap making can strip off skin > easily, as well as damage wood floors or countertops. Always wear > shoes, long sleeves, rubber gloves, apron and goggles. Put down plastic > sheet to protect surfaces. Never use aluminum or cast iron as lye > reacts violently with these surfaces causing a dangerous situation. > Keep vinegar and boric acid solution within reach to neutralize the > lye if it splashes onto skin or into eyes. Pour vinegar onto a surface > to mitigate any damage if the lye lands on it. Boric acid for eyes. > Plan to make your soap in the morning when you are alert and have no > plans for at least 4-5 hours. Soap making is a slow process and a > precise one. Hopefully these precautions haven't put you off making > soap from your goat milk. If the safety rules are followed, you will be > able to produce a useful and attractive product. > > The Basic Ingredients > > * 3 pints cold goat milk, strained > * 1 can household lye (sodium hydroxide) > * 5 pounds lard > * 2 oz glycerine > * 4 Tbls Borax > * optional: 2 cup ground oatmeal / 1 Tbl scented essential oil > > Equipment > > * rubber gloves > * stainless steel or unchipped enamel pans (2 or 3) > * stainless steel spoons (2 or 3) > * glass measuring cups > * goggles or safety glasses > * plastic sheeting > * plastic apron > * scale > * rubber scrapper > * stainless steel or glass thermometers > * vinegar or boric acid solution > > Molds > > * juice cans > * catfood cans (not the pull top lids) > * candle molds > * cardboard box lined with plastic bag > * glass or stainless steel baking pans > > Use pan spray in your molds to pop the soap out when its time to > unmold. You can also put the soap in the freezer for an hour to help > unmold the cured soap. Prepare the molds and have them ready before you > begin making the soap. > > Having the right temperature for both the lye solution and the fat is > one way to ensure fine soap. That is why you need 2 thermometers. Melt > the lard on the stove and add the glycerine. By the time its melted it > should reach 120 degrees F. Take it off the stove and set aside. > > Now get the container you will mix the lye in. Put the COLD goat milk > in it. Place it in a sink and surround it with ice. Fill the sink with > water up to the milk line in the container. Mix the lye SLOWLY into the > milk and SLOWLY stirring after each sprinkling. Use great care and keep > the spoon at the bottom of the pan to avoid splashes. It could take a > half hour to do this part. The mixture will turn bright yellow. It is > hot and gives off awful fumes. Soap will separate if lye is added too > fast or stirred too fast. > > Now you will have to wait for the two mixtures to reach the same > temperature at the same time. 85 degrees F. You may have to out the > lard in a hot water bath if it has cooled off too fast. When both > mixtures are the same temperature, very carefully pour the warm lye into > the lard in a thin steady stream, stirring slowly and evenly. Continue > stirring. > > The soap will slowly get thicker and is ready when a drop from the spoon > sits up on the surface of the mixture before blending with the rest of > the soap. This part could take 15 to 45 minutes. At this point you can > add Borax, oatmeal, or essential oils for fragrance. Don't use > fragrance oils with alcohol as this may cause the soap to separate and > ruin the batch. Now you can pour the soap into the molds. Cover with > cardboard and a heavy blanket; let set for 24 hours. > > Now you are ready to unmold. Cut the soap in the baking pans into bars > and cure for 4 weeks in a warm dry place. > > > > > For molds and fragrances, check out www.sweetcakes.com and www.brambleberry.com. kc7ttm@... wrote: > Hi! My name is Cleo and I am a beginner's beginner in the soap/lotions. > I work fulltime and have been married over 30 yrs now with 2 sons in the > military (one deployed and 1 on standby alert) and 1 son at home. I > have access to some fresh goats milk and would like to start with some > goat milk soap, so would appreciate any recipes, etc. I have searched > the archives and found info on using powdered goat milk, but not fresh. > Any help you can give me to get started will be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you > Cleo > Springdale WA > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Thank you!!!! I will let you know what happens when I make it on my next days off from work. I will keep your military relatives in my prayers also. Cleo Springdale WA - about 40 miles NW of Spokane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 and Cleo, The book on milk based soaps by Casey Makela is one of the BEST!!! Good choice. Suzy shimai wrote: > Hi Cleo. I'm from WA as well. Though I don't know where Springdale is. I > live north of Lacey kinda by Olympia. One book I have read about using milk > (of any sort) in making soap is Milk-Based Soaps- Making Natural, > Skin-Nourishing Soap by Casey Makela. I'm new to soaping too so I don't > know how it compares to other books or websites but it was very informative. > I checked it out from the library here. > HTH > J > > > > Hi! My name is Cleo and I am a beginner's beginner in the soap/lotions. > > I work fulltime and have been married over 30 yrs now with 2 sons in the > > military (one deployed and 1 on standby alert) and 1 son at home. I > > have access to some fresh goats milk and would like to start with some > > goat milk soap, so would appreciate any recipes, etc. I have searched > > the archives and found info on using powdered goat milk, but not fresh. > > Any help you can give me to get started will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thank you > > Cleo > > Springdale WA > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2003 Report Share Posted July 12, 2003 , readup on the work of Italian vet. Walter Tarello. You might even go and see him. The full text of his articles are posted on the net and discuss staph as the cause of CFS. I'm on bromelain and baby aspirin until my circulation improves enough to try strong antibiotics or Tarello's treatment. I feel much better on them. There's increasingly strong evidence for staph being the major cause and it won't be much longer before its well known. Good luck, I wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2003 Report Share Posted July 12, 2003 Dear Walter, The Italians have miserable hospitals IMO but they do really good research. A vet huh. So if it's staph would it mean that a regimen of an anti-staph anitbiotic might make one feel better, at least for a while or might it need to be longer. I'll check out the doc you recommended and thanks for answering my post. It's nice to feel welcome > , readup on the work of Italian vet. Walter Tarello. You might > even go and see him. The full text of his articles are posted on > the net and discuss staph as the cause of CFS. I'm on bromelain and > baby aspirin until my circulation improves enough to try strong > antibiotics or Tarello's treatment. I feel much better on them. > > There's increasingly strong evidence for staph being the major cause > and it won't be much longer before its well known. > > Good luck, I wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 >> I find it so hard to give up junkfood for a day,how did you guys make it easier?What did you keep telling yourself to keep yourself from binging on junkfoods if you're like me and can't be away from it?How did you keep yourself motivated or what kept you inspired? Take it one day or one meal or one hour at a time. I made a list of what I craved and then when free day came around I pulled the list out. I asked myself, if I have a piece of " x " will this bring me any closer to my goal or further away from my goal? Also surf the recipe sites and there are quite a few bfl dessert type recipes that will help kill a sweet tooth > > Now I have a question about the program: > Still on the topic of Myoplex,protein powders,and eating authorized > foods...is there any difference if you do one of the above,but not > the other when it comes to between meals?I mean do you lose more > weight is you do Myoplex,protein powders or by eating authorized > foods or does it just matter about how your body does with the > program when it comes to weight loss?Now I'm beginning to think,does it even matter how much weight you loss because I don't think this is really about weightloss,now I'm confusing myself=/ > BINGO! Actually the program is more about living a healthier lifestyle. As far as " weight loss " , I think the goal should be to decrease bodyfat. We do that by increasing muscle while simultaneously losing fat. So sometimes the scale " lies " to us and indicates we aren't making progress when, in fact, we are lowering our bodyfat. As far as foods, personally I feel fuller with real food vs. a shake. Colleen PS WELCOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 What is your surgeon's response to your questions? That is the most important. The surgeon's examination can go far in analyzing your situation as he has tools such as xray, MRI, bone scan at his disposal. If you want an amateur's view, here's mine: Not until 5-6 months post-op was I really comfortable sitting for long periods of time. Fortunately I was free to move around at will so it wasn't a big problem. Car trips up to that point got segmented into 1-2 hour legs so I could get out and walk around. However I would not have described what I felt as pain " like a toothache " so maybe you do have something wrong. Maybe it's time to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Have you seen your orthopedist? Could it be pain comeing from your back, and not your hip? Try sitting w/ a small flat pillow at your waist line, to encourage the natural arch in your back. How about a visit to your Physical Therapist? (always my favorite answer) Marilyn Barbara wrote: Hullo All! My name is Barbara. I'm in Sacramento, and I had my right hip replaced near the end of September. The first couple of months were amazing; practically no pain, and my muscles got noticably stronger fast. Now, seven months later, I'm having pain around the joint again. I feel great if I'm walking -- movement is still its own reward -- but sitting afterward, or for extended periods, such as computer or tv, time hurts like a toothache. I've even changed jobs from a call center to convenience store so I don't have to sit so much. So far it helps, but I'm still left with questions. Have others of you had experiences like this? Is discomfort and pain after sitting a normal part of the healing process? How long does it last? Thanks in advance, Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 , Welcome to the group! I don't know specifics of the Prolab, but you could split it in half. I don't use the Myoplex at all right now. I'm breastfeeding my baby and don't want to use anything other than a good protein powder. I ordered the EFL book yesterday and am looking forward to using it. Chicken isn't the only protein, by far: tuna any kind of fish shellfish beef pork etc. etc. Good luck. The ladies here are great. Jen > Hi everyone, > > I just joined and will be starting my first BFL challenge on Sunday > morning. I'm so excited to find a group of women living the BFL > lifestyle! > > A little about me: I'm , 32, mom of one amazing 4-year-old > girl and wife to (who will also be starting BFL on Sunday). > I'm 5'8 " and have about 4 sizes to lose. I'm hoping that's realistic > in 12 weeks, but if it's not, I'll just start again! > > My questions are: (a) Does anyone here use other shakes besides > Myoplex/Myoplex Lite? I'm specifically kind of interested in the > Prolab Lean Mass Matrix, but at 390 calories per shake, it seems > kind of hefty for a woman trying to lose fat . . . or is it?? Any > thoughts? > > And (, what do you think about the Eating-for-LIFE book? I want to > eat as clean as possible, but I also wanted to have a little variety > beyond the standard chicken salad, chicken sandwich, chicken > breast, . . . etc. My thought was to have one or two meals from the > EFL recipes each day, along with one meal of chicken/rice/broccoli > or something along those lines, two shakes, and one cottage > cheese/yogurt or fruit meal. The recipes in EFL seem to hit that > carb/protein balance without being too heavy on fat, but I wanted to > see what more experienced BFLers thought. > > OK, that's probably long enough for my first post, lol! I look > forward to giving and getting support from this group. > > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi M Welcome I just got the EFL book today I LOVE IT! Lets put it this way... I was just flippin through it to tell you about it ...and OMG......my mouth is watering. This from a woman who was....umm... complaining about the price last week. There are sooo many choices!!!! hehehe, who knew! I was going to start my 1st challenge on Aug. 1st...but the more I have thinking about it, the more I think.why wait ? lol...... *hugs* Anjil > > > > And (, what do you think about the Eating-for-LIFE book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 > > My questions are: (a) Does anyone here use other shakes besides > Myoplex/Myoplex Lite? I'm specifically kind of interested in the > Prolab Lean Mass Matrix, but at 390 calories per shake, it seems > kind of hefty for a woman trying to lose fat . . . or is it?? Any > thoughts? Hi , I actually own a few tubs of vanilla and chocolate protein powder because I like to bake with it and make my own shakes. I do use meal replacement shakes(envelopes) rarely that are not Myoplex and they work just fine. Most of these have to be cut in half for me because they have the calories that men would normally need. Most of the regular enveloppes(like prolab lean mass) likely have somewhere around 40grams of protein which you as a female do not need. > > And (, what do you think about the Eating-for-LIFE book? I want to > eat as clean as possible, but I also wanted to have a little variety > beyond the standard chicken salad, chicken sandwich, chicken > breast, . . . etc. My thought was to have one or two meals from the > EFL recipes each day, along with one meal of chicken/rice/broccoli > or something along those lines, two shakes, and one cottage > cheese/yogurt or fruit meal. The recipes in EFL seem to hit that > carb/protein balance without being too heavy on fat, but I wanted to > see what more experienced BFLers thought. I *love* the eating-for-life book. I actually tried to follow the meal planning at the back of the book this week and it worked out really well EFL is really a reflection of what a healthy lifestyle should look like in my opinion. I train quite a bit (not doing BFL exercises anymore) and the food I eat from the EFL book is plenty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Welcome, ! I'm sure everyone else is answering your questions... so I'll just wish you luck! It's great that your hubby is going to do BFL with you. Mine works out with me, but doesn't do BFL. Intro and questions Hi everyone, I just joined and will be starting my first BFL challenge on Sunday morning. I'm so excited to find a group of women living the BFL lifestyle! A little about me: I'm , 32, mom of one amazing 4-year-old girl and wife to (who will also be starting BFL on Sunday). I'm 5'8 " and have about 4 sizes to lose. I'm hoping that's realistic in 12 weeks, but if it's not, I'll just start again! My questions are: (a) Does anyone here use other shakes besides Myoplex/Myoplex Lite? I'm specifically kind of interested in the Prolab Lean Mass Matrix, but at 390 calories per shake, it seems kind of hefty for a woman trying to lose fat . . . or is it?? Any thoughts? And (, what do you think about the Eating-for-LIFE book? I want to eat as clean as possible, but I also wanted to have a little variety beyond the standard chicken salad, chicken sandwich, chicken breast, . . . etc. My thought was to have one or two meals from the EFL recipes each day, along with one meal of chicken/rice/broccoli or something along those lines, two shakes, and one cottage cheese/yogurt or fruit meal. The recipes in EFL seem to hit that carb/protein balance without being too heavy on fat, but I wanted to see what more experienced BFLers thought. OK, that's probably long enough for my first post, lol! I look forward to giving and getting support from this group. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi , The Prolab is fine but it's almost twice as many calories and twice as much protein as you want in a meal. You can still use it, just split the packets in half. Some people complain that the EFL meals contain unauthorized ingredients or are too high in calories or carbs. I think everything in there is appropriate though. Your plan to keep it simple and throw in some EFL recipes here and there is a really good one. You get some variety but you also maximize your results. Here's my rant on BFL vs. EFL http://www.skwigg.com/id48.html I probably have too much time on my hands. :-) Intro and questions Hi everyone, I just joined and will be starting my first BFL challenge on Sunday morning. I'm so excited to find a group of women living the BFL lifestyle! A little about me: I'm , 32, mom of one amazing 4-year-old girl and wife to (who will also be starting BFL on Sunday). I'm 5'8 " and have about 4 sizes to lose. I'm hoping that's realistic in 12 weeks, but if it's not, I'll just start again! My questions are: (a) Does anyone here use other shakes besides Myoplex/Myoplex Lite? I'm specifically kind of interested in the Prolab Lean Mass Matrix, but at 390 calories per shake, it seems kind of hefty for a woman trying to lose fat . . . or is it?? Any thoughts? And (, what do you think about the Eating-for-LIFE book? I want to eat as clean as possible, but I also wanted to have a little variety beyond the standard chicken salad, chicken sandwich, chicken breast, . . . etc. My thought was to have one or two meals from the EFL recipes each day, along with one meal of chicken/rice/broccoli or something along those lines, two shakes, and one cottage cheese/yogurt or fruit meal. The recipes in EFL seem to hit that carb/protein balance without being too heavy on fat, but I wanted to see what more experienced BFLers thought. OK, that's probably long enough for my first post, lol! I look forward to giving and getting support from this group. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Thanks, (and everyone else who replied)! I think I'll stick with the Myoplex Lite for now and see how I like it 20 packets down the road. Your article really puts EFL in perspective for me. I was stressing this morning because for my first BFL breakfast I made the scrambled eggs (4 egg whites, 1 full egg) and had them with a corn tortilla and salsa . . .. and 2 tbsp. of lowfat cheese and a tablespoon of lowfat sour cream. It was mmm-mmm-good, but I ended up getting all worked up because of the cheese and sour cream. In the end, though, if 2 tablespoons of lowfat cheese and a tablespoon of lowfat sour cream is going to make or break my results, then I'd better find something else to do! So thanks for helping me put a stop to my panic before I got to the point of throwing my hands up and swinging by the nearest fast food joint. ;o) Re: Intro and questions Hi , The Prolab is fine but it's almost twice as many calories and twice as much protein as you want in a meal. You can still use it, just split the packets in half. Some people complain that the EFL meals contain unauthorized ingredients or are too high in calories or carbs. I think everything in there is appropriate though. Your plan to keep it simple and throw in some EFL recipes here and there is a really good one. You get some variety but you also maximize your results. Here's my rant on BFL vs. EFL http://www.skwigg.com/id48.html I probably have too much time on my hands. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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