Re: IAQ List

August 21, 2003

Please have an open mind and have faith that people will become

educated.

If doctors knew everything SARS would not have gotten so out of

control.

> Some people on the IAQ list have finally figured out that spore

counts

> and symptoms do not necessarily correlate.

> Knowledge of the principle of variable toxicity from substrate and

> competinge molds alone would make it unreasonable to try to assess

> toxic exposure by counting spores.

> The intermittent nature of spore plume release means that airborne

> spore concentrations is far too inconsistent to reliably determine

> inhalation potential.

> Mycotoxin release from spores means that ambient levels of VOC

> concentration are completely independent of the presence of spores.

> The other complicating factor that they are finally starting to

> realize is that individual susceptilities makes VOC testing futile

> except as a theoretical value for a baseline for acceptable exposure

> for a " normal " person.

> These IAQ people are far too scientific to try to correlate

> observations from sensitive people to their experience.

> I explained on this board that I could be reactive to mold spores

that

> my cat carried into my house from somewhere else and then

demonstrate

> that I had no allergic reaction to my cat later but the doctors

still

> rejected my insistence that it was mold and not the cat.

> The IAQ members rejected this observation as unscientific.

> -

August 22, 2003

and the group,

I am on the IAQ list and it is true that SOME rejected your

experience, very rudely and ignorantly, I might add. But not all did

and many of the silent ones would tend to side more with you

(based on previous postings over the years). So I would like to add

some information, if I might.

While it is true that mold and other exposure victims -- I'm one of

them -- still get bashed by industry -- which I am also one of --

industry is also unfairly bashed by the victims. Both sides have a

long way to go in understanding what all is involved, what can

reasonably be done and in communicating effectively and with

respect.

If industry believes we are all crazy, then nothing will change their

mind. Likewise, if exposure victims believe all industry is unfeeling,

unbelieving and rejecting of our experience, then nothing will

change their mind. So it's going to take some effort and risking

from both sides to generate a productive dialog with effective, safe

outcomes. This is a VERY serious problem for all of us.

A hopeful event -- at least I think so -- is a new national consensus

standard for mold remediation that is scheduled to be released

sometime in November. It is currently in peer review.

I serve on that diversived group and the perception that you express

was nearly absent from all discussions and debates. In fact, the

individuality of experience of victims was acknowledged and taken

quite seriously. I was accepted as both a victim and an industry

member -- I'm a consultant -- and I submitted several names

specifically from the victims side of the story to be included in peer

review.

So while your concluding remark to this group is true, it is also true

that the climate is shifting. All of us need to know that and begin

learning how to separate the good from the bad.

I'm not selling the standard, I make no money from the process, I

am not paid to serve. We are volunteers and travel costs are paid

by ourselves. This has taken 4-5 days of our time every month in

different cities since January, so in addition to the considerable

personal cost, many of us had reduced business activity. I say this

not for sympathy, but to describe the level of dedication and

passion exhibited by the members of the committee.

The standard and reference guide is written for mold remediators

and is quite technical. However, some of you may find the

approach and underlying concepts helpful. I also think it will help

victims to understand what a remediator is doing and why, and

provide another layer of oversight to ensure the work is done

correctly.

If you want me to notify you when the standard is released and

where it is available, send me a private e-mail with the subject

" S520 Standard " and I will add you to my list. Again, I'm not selling

it.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats

grimes@...

303-671-9653

303-751-0416 fax

------------------

> Some people on the IAQ list have finally figured out that spore counts

> and symptoms do not necessarily correlate. Knowledge of the principle

> of variable toxicity from substrate and competinge molds alone would

> make it unreasonable to try to assess toxic exposure by counting

> spores. The intermittent nature of spore plume release means that

> airborne spore concentrations is far too inconsistent to reliably

> determine inhalation potential. Mycotoxin release from spores means

> that ambient levels of VOC concentration are completely independent of

> the presence of spores. The other complicating factor that they are

> finally starting to realize is that individual susceptilities makes

> VOC testing futile except as a theoretical value for a baseline for

> acceptable exposure for a " normal " person. These IAQ people are far

> too scientific to try to correlate observations from sensitive people

> to their experience. I explained on this board that I could be

> reactive to mold spores that my cat carried into my house from

> somewhere else and then demonstrate that I had no allergic reaction to

> my cat later but the doctors still rejected my insistence that it was

> mold and not the cat. The IAQ members rejected this observation as

> unscientific. -

August 22, 2003

I am a silent one most of the time. I am VERY ill from years of exposure in a moldy wet basement on a federal facility. I have a clearance and am a tech info specialist. They are railroading me out on disability and covering the problem.

I do believe we are struck with the volatile gases as I can smell them and feel them when I am near them.

As far as the medical profession, I am running into unbelieving or dont know what to do. I am starting to think my answer lies in alternative medicine. I am also MCS and allergic to most foods now, housebound with air cleaners.

Since this is government, you would not believe the HELL Workmen's Comp put me through that made me even sicker, but you have to jump through the hoops. They lie. They know what this stuff is. I dont care who has what credentials, WE ALL want help and answers and recovery. I want so badly my life back.

I cannot take herbs, my body is now allergic. I just started yesterday with a homeopath energy from a kinesiologist I am going to see. She is trying to stabilize my body before I see her and try to detox. I cant detox fast. It almost killed me.

We need to stay united and listen to all ideas and use what we think is best. You can read and you all know your bodies, and what it can and cannot tolerate.

Well, this is a lot for me to say. Not a medical person, just an opinion from a toxic mold victim.

Janet

August 23, 2003

I agree with what you said and it was very well written. The answers

for me were in alternative medicine and everyone has different

genetics, exposure, etc. so what works for one person may not work

for another. I do personally believe that there are certain theories

that apply for getting better and it is important to listen to what

your body needs, how it reacts, and work with someone you trust.

When Dr. Lipsey gets back from Australia I hope to speak to him for a

couple minutes so I can discuss my theories which I can back up with

scientific evidence. (All I need is 5 minutes to explain SARS, why

people get sick from toxic mold etc. I am not an attorney but no

judge or insurance company could possibly argue with my explanation.)

He seems to have the connections as I think it is important to get

the medical field up to date so people can get better and also get

the attorneys up to date so people who lost everything due to other

people's irresponsibility can get the justice they deserve.

I have lost everything materiastically so I simply want recognition,

credit, and 2 frames from Washington DC. One with a certificate/award

from President Bush because my theories will help save people's lives

and the other frame will be a picture of me in makeup, nice clothes,

and a french manicure shaking President Bush's hand.

I own practically nothing materiastically but I have my theories and

research which are worth everything to me and I simply want the

credit I deserve.

Do not loose faith we can work together and beat this.

Stitch

> I am a silent one most of the time. I am VERY ill from years

of

> exposure in a moldy wet basement on a federal facility. I have a

clearance and am a

> tech info specialist. They are railroading me out on disability and

covering

> the problem.

> I do believe we are struck with the volatile gases as I can

smell them

> and feel them when I am near them.

> As far as the medical profession, I am running into

unbelieving or dont

> know what to do. I am starting to think my answer lies in

alternative

> medicine. I am also MCS and allergic to most foods now, housebound

with air cleaners.

> Since this is government, you would not believe the HELL Workmen's

Comp put

> me through that made me even sicker, but you have to jump through

the hoops.

> They lie. They know what this stuff is. I dont care who has what

credentials,

> WE ALL want help and answers and recovery. I want so badly my life

back.

> I cannot take herbs, my body is now allergic. I just started

yesterday

> with a homeopath energy from a kinesiologist I am going to see. She

is trying

> to stabilize my body before I see her and try to detox. I cant

detox fast. It

> almost killed me.

> We need to stay united and listen to all ideas and use what

we think is

> best. You can read and you all know your bodies, and what it can

and cannot

> tolerate.

> Well, this is a lot for me to say. Not a medical person, just

an

> opinion from a toxic mold victim.

> Janet

August 23, 2003

Stitch,

Thank you for your comment on what I write. I am usually pretty quiet on here. Dr. Lipsey seems to work hard for those sick from mold. I hope your theories and ideas help people someday. It has been a year and a half for me. I am pretty much housebound with my filters.

But we have to unite or nothing will get done. I am a 39 year old single Mom. This wasnt what I planned to do with my life when my daughter starts coolege in a week.

Thanks again

Janet

In a message dated 8/22/03 8:12:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stitch7613@... writes: