Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?

Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time

From:arbuch@...

Reply-to:hyperthyroidism

To:hyperthyroidism

Sent from the Internet

Hi Kim,

I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.

Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.

Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) Arlene

Arlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

I see a naturopath. The balancing tincture includes:

motherwort, Oregon grape root, black cohosh, siberian ginseng (people have noted that this may cause palpitations), gotu kola, lemon balm, prickly ash and poke root.

Arlene

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting? Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard TimeFrom:arbuch@...Reply-to:hyperthyroidism To:hyperthyroidism Sent from the Internet Hi Kim,I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) ArleneArlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Arlene,

I've been off meds for over a year but interested in the tinctures you take. Can you tell me more about the lemon balm tea and buggleweed? Thx, Mona

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting? Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard TimeFrom:arbuch@...Reply-to:hyperthyroidism To:hyperthyroidism Sent from the Internet Hi Kim,I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) ArleneArlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi there Mona and All,

Haven't see you for awhile. I'm still and finding good company with all these

Pams.

:-) I am the original Pam..or Old Pam <sigh>

Guess what!!! I believe I can now claim to be in remission.

I kept getting labs and lowering my dose of PTU ever so slowly. Perhaps more

slowly than

needed, but I wanted to be sure to not rock the boat, as it has been a long

journey.

At one point, while I was still a bit too hypo and still on PTU, I found a

tincture of

hawthorne, and used it on a as needed basis for the heart palpitations. ( my

heart goes

nuts when hypo)

Then the PTU pills could not be timed and split small enough, nut without them

I felt

hyper and my eyes started burning. This is when I finally got the bugleweed. It

has the

same effect on antibodies and FT4 as the PTU, but I did not feel the up and down

so badly.

Smoother. But it is very strong stuff, and in figuring out how much to take, I

ODed one

night, slept like the dead, and was hung over the whole next da and was a

swollen up, like

when hypo. Thus my words of caution.

O.K. I went and looked... in the last month exactly, I have taken a grand total

of 2 1/2

PTU pills . all in 1/4 pill sizes and have now reduced my bugleweed to zero for

nine full

days. HOW " BOUT THAT !

I was using the lemon balm tincture to stay calm and even before, but now it

seems to wake

me up. What is it supposed to do to a normal person ??? Was is simply waking me

up from

hypo when I was taking it, or am I just really odd ? Or is it all in the amount

?

Maybe Dawn Rose knows... HI :-)

How are you doing?

And Arlene...are you still drug free ??? LOL

-Pam- who is enjoying all this 'clean' livin'......

[Guest guest]

BTW...who ever asked about warming the bugleweed, I would be afraid of changing

it

somehow. The teeny tiny amount of alcohol is not worth the possibility of

changing it

somehow. Yes, shortly after taking it, I too felt a tiny rush from the alcohol,

but then

the feeling was gone. Never lasted more than a minute or two at the most.

And I am also one that can not drink at all. A sip of champagne, and I am hot

all over,

and slightly tipsy.( well maybe, I took a second tiny sip...it did taste good,

but that

was all). Real cheap date here. LOL

Old -Pam-

[Guest guest]

Hi Mona,

My naturopath has me on different mixtures of the tinctures, plus two homeopathic remedies: one for the pituitary and one for the thyroid. When I feel a little hyper, I am supposed to take the thyroid homeopathic, and when feeling OK, it is the pituitary homeopathic I take, to stay in balance.

OK - the tinctures. Again, there are two mixtures. These are made up in an herbal pharmacy. Being in Northern California, we have these places available to us (several). My herbal pharmacy is in an office of my naturopath's. She shares the office with an MD who does herbal work with her patients (not covered by medical insurance, though). The name of the doctor is Lois , in Santa .

The first tincture I took was for bringing down the activity of my thyroid, when I was hyper. It includes:

Bugleweed, Siberian Ginseng, motherwort, lemon balm, skullcap, Hawthorne and gromwell. I took 1/2 tsp 2xday

The second tincture is for balancing my thyroid and includes:

motherwort, oregon grape root, black cohosh, siberian ginseng, gotu kola, lemon balm, prickly ash and poke root.

I have no idea what the formula for either is, but perhaps there is a website for these. Here is a website with lots of links, for Lois :

http://www.treefarmtapes.com/catalog/speaker.asp?speakerid=3242

At this point, instead of taking PTU when I feel a little hyper (which is what my endocrinologist just told me I could do), I have opted to take my bugleweed in the mornings, and my balancing tincture in the afternoons. From what my naturopath told me, I should be taking these tinctures twice a day and to alternate like this anyway. When I feel in balance, I am only taking the balancing tincture. Hope this helps,

Arlene

PS: I also take lots of vitamins (not Bs, since I am allergic to this, but try to take foods which include Bs, and I get my copper in nuts and meats). And I take something called "Immugen" for my immune system, prescribed by the naturopath. And I hope that I can get to that yearly mark of no meds - so CONGRATULATIONS, Mona!

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting? Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard TimeFrom:arbuch@...Reply-to:hyperthyroidism To:hyperthyroidism Sent from the Internet Hi Kim,I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) ArleneArlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Yay, Old Pam,

Congratulations to you, too! Seems like lots of us are getting there, to a

recovery place, at about the same time!

Yep, I have been drug free for 7 weeks now! (and counting). Trying to

continue to " chill " , which was my advice from , with all the stress

triggers. Getting outside and digging in the dirt in this scrumptious

spring Northern California weather has certainly helped. So good to hear

from you!

PS: Gotta tell you what my endo just said on Friday. I told him I had lots

of palpitations at both hyper and hypo, and he told me that it was really

just an indication of hyper, mostly. Oh well, I guess we really can't get

through to them...but I too had lots and lots of thumpy things going on in

my body at major hypo, which is why I had been concerned about going off

PTU. All my doctors felt I was still hyper when I told them that. Well, we

here on this forum know better!

PSS: Wow, just saw that your eyes were also burning at hypo. I had this

reaction, very badly, when I first went off PTU. I thought I had gone back

to being hyper. Now I wonder if it is a withdrawal symptom of going off

PTU, because I am fine now.

Arlene

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

> Hi there Mona and All,

> Haven't see you for awhile. I'm still and finding good company with all

these Pams.

> :-) I am the original Pam..or Old Pam <sigh>

>

> Guess what!!! I believe I can now claim to be in remission.

> I kept getting labs and lowering my dose of PTU ever so slowly. Perhaps

more slowly than

> needed, but I wanted to be sure to not rock the boat, as it has been a

long journey.

>

> At one point, while I was still a bit too hypo and still on PTU, I found a

tincture of

> hawthorne, and used it on a as needed basis for the heart palpitations.

( my heart goes

> nuts when hypo)

> Then the PTU pills could not be timed and split small enough, nut without

them I felt

> hyper and my eyes started burning. This is when I finally got the

bugleweed. It has the

> same effect on antibodies and FT4 as the PTU, but I did not feel the up

and down so badly.

> Smoother. But it is very strong stuff, and in figuring out how much to

take, I ODed one

> night, slept like the dead, and was hung over the whole next da and was a

swollen up, like

> when hypo. Thus my words of caution.

>

> O.K. I went and looked... in the last month exactly, I have taken a grand

total of 2 1/2

> PTU pills . all in 1/4 pill sizes and have now reduced my bugleweed to

zero for nine full

> days. HOW " BOUT THAT !

>

> I was using the lemon balm tincture to stay calm and even before, but now

it seems to wake

> me up. What is it supposed to do to a normal person ??? Was is simply

waking me up from

> hypo when I was taking it, or am I just really odd ? Or is it all in the

amount ?

>

> Maybe Dawn Rose knows... HI :-)

> How are you doing?

>

> And Arlene...are you still drug free ??? LOL

>

> -Pam- who is enjoying all this 'clean' livin'......

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Arlene,

What great news on this fine Sunday morning. :-) Seven weeks !

I too am 'chillin'...my thinking is that right now is the most important part

of this

whole thing. I just need time to let my body adjust. So I have scheduled my work

load with

spaces in it, not taking extra jobs, and I did have a bit of a plan in advance,

in that I

chose this slower time of year to finally do this.

I wonder if my feeling is correct, that a stress (like a dentist chair) could

set me off

again ? It seems like once I am on more solid ground, these things will be more

manageable. I wonder how long it takes to feel like I am REALLY back in control

?

Yes, the garden has been a huge part of this. Still just clean up and weeds. But

I did get

my sweet peas in the ground on valentines day. Old tradition for me, passed down

from my

Grandma. We planted the sweet peas through the snow a few times. Wonderful

lesson for a

small child.

Guessing our weather is similar. We are a zone 7 or 8 depending on the year. (

USDA zones

, not the made up ones in Sunset)

Heart palpatations...yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 years on this

alone, and told

me I had other illnesses, not thyroid all that time. He is highly respected in

the medical

community, and on the top docs list, because he treats on symptoms not just lab

numbers...see how that all went wrong !!!

I would have continued being ill, spent money on other doctors, been hooked on

pain meds

for life, and probably given up some where down the line and gone for the RAI

out of

desperation( and we know that would have only made things worse), had it not

been for

lists like this, and Elaine's wonderful tolerance for the same question over and

over. :-)

You know when we are hypo, it is just SO hard to figure this stuff out.

The only way I ever figured it out was finally focusing on a TF4 number that I

remember

was good, years ago, and ignoring the note on the bottom of every lab slip that

said

GOOD...followed with instructions telling me to increase meds or stay on the

same amount.

AND when calling for lab results, fighting the battle to get an EXACT number !

Then the hawthorne , lemon balm, and bugleweed....don't think I could have done

this

withdrawal without them.

Eyes....I have very serious eye disease. They looked like big old golf balls,

did not

close at night, the pain was terrible, and vision was blurry, and not only

double but if

tired I could see 3 and 4 of everything. The burning I spoke of was way back

inside,

accompanied by feeling shaky. So I thought it was hyper from no PTU. The

bugleweed was my

answer at that time. Now I seem to have a slight burn on the surface of the eye

balls when

I wake up, but then it stops. What do you think?

Old Pam....who didn't know I had this much to say, LOL !

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the info - I live in San Diego and in search of a good nautropath. When I find one I'll present all this data to him/her. Once again, thanks for the info! Mona

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting? Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard TimeFrom:arbuch@...Reply-to:hyperthyroidism To:hyperthyroidism Sent from the Internet Hi Kim,I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) ArleneArlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi #1 Pam:

Glad to hear from you. It's great being off meds but I'm still very

conscious about my thyroid levels. My doc weaned me off PTU very slowly

too. He told me that if we're taken off meds suddenly it can shock our

system back into a hyper state. I was on 1/4 pill/day for 3 months before I

finally went off the meds. However, I want to stay this way so I'm

considering bulgeweed and lemon balm. Take care and keep in touch, Mona

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

> Hi there Mona and All,

> Haven't see you for awhile. I'm still and finding good company with all

these Pams.

> :-) I am the original Pam..or Old Pam <sigh>

>

> Guess what!!! I believe I can now claim to be in remission.

> I kept getting labs and lowering my dose of PTU ever so slowly. Perhaps

more slowly than

> needed, but I wanted to be sure to not rock the boat, as it has been a

long journey.

>

> At one point, while I was still a bit too hypo and still on PTU, I found a

tincture of

> hawthorne, and used it on a as needed basis for the heart palpitations.

( my heart goes

> nuts when hypo)

> Then the PTU pills could not be timed and split small enough, nut without

them I felt

> hyper and my eyes started burning. This is when I finally got the

bugleweed. It has the

> same effect on antibodies and FT4 as the PTU, but I did not feel the up

and down so badly.

> Smoother. But it is very strong stuff, and in figuring out how much to

take, I ODed one

> night, slept like the dead, and was hung over the whole next da and was a

swollen up, like

> when hypo. Thus my words of caution.

>

> O.K. I went and looked... in the last month exactly, I have taken a grand

total of 2 1/2

> PTU pills . all in 1/4 pill sizes and have now reduced my bugleweed to

zero for nine full

> days. HOW " BOUT THAT !

>

> I was using the lemon balm tincture to stay calm and even before, but now

it seems to wake

> me up. What is it supposed to do to a normal person ??? Was is simply

waking me up from

> hypo when I was taking it, or am I just really odd ? Or is it all in the

amount ?

>

> Maybe Dawn Rose knows... HI :-)

> How are you doing?

>

> And Arlene...are you still drug free ??? LOL

>

> -Pam- who is enjoying all this 'clean' livin'......

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/24/2002 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, pladd@... writes:

yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 years

Pam,

I wonder how many others on this board were kept "way too hypo" for too long, leading to the problems you describe. As everyone here probably knows, I made my doctor agree to reduce my dose of Tap after a few months, because I could feel my body begin to flip from hyper to hypo, and absolutely refuse to gain weight. After that, every time I began to feel my metabolism slow down too much, I would reduce the dose again. I'm wondering if my extreme vanity was what saved me--that is, I wonder if if everyone began reducing their dose as soon as the hypo symptoms began, they could get better right away, as I did. Or maybe I just had a simpler case of the disease with no complications, and it just went away more easily. I raise this now, more than 4 1/2 years after complete recovery, to ask if anyone else did what I did, and got better right away. I think the variable of how long we stay on ATDs after symptoms wane should be considered. If others try what I did, please report what happens.

Best to all,

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/25/2002 10:55:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

When I began having some of the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, weight gain, etc.), I was extremely hesitant to reduce my PTU because I was still having severe palpitations.

Dear Arlene,

I took Atenol, which got rid of the palpitations (before I took it, my heart was 110 bpm resting). Were you taking a beta blocker also, and still had palpitations?

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome, Mona.

Here's a site to find a naturopath, in California:

http://www.canp.org/

Good luck,

Arlene up north from you (and gorgeous spring weather right now!)

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

Subj:Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting? Date:2/19/02 10:45:27 PM Central Standard TimeFrom:arbuch@...Reply-to:hyperthyroidism To:hyperthyroidism Sent from the Internet Hi Kim,I just chug that nasty stuff down, then drink some water afterwards. I drink water all day long, and don't really drink juices. When I used to put my tinctures in something, it was just in water. But you can use something like orange juice, I suppose.Yes, as of this very moment, I am in "remission" or recovery or stabilized and off my PTU and bugleweed too. But I have a tincture which is for balancing my thyroid, also.Good luck with the yuk stuff! ;~) ArleneArlene, where do you get the balancing one? I need it ) thanks Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi AntJoan,

When I began having some of the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, weight gain, etc.), I was extremely hesitant to reduce my PTU because I was still having severe palpitations. If any of the doctors had known that palpitations also occurred at hypo, I would have gone down on my dosage. But, since they were not doing blood tests on me at this time, both my GP and naturopath felt that I was probably still too hyper, until I got so hypo I could barely move. It was a big light going on in my own brain that alerted me to being hypo, finally, and begging for a blood test, and then it took me three months of slowly going off the PTU, before I began to feel better again.

I think if the doctors monitored us more carefully, and if they knew what symptoms we have both at hyper and hypo, this would help. As I said the other day, when I spoke with my endo, and told him that I had palpitations at hypo range, he sat there and told me that this is a symptom primarily of hyper!

ARlene

PS: Now I know!

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/24/2002 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, pladd@... writes:

yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 yearsPam, I wonder how many others on this board were kept "way too hypo" for too long, leading to the problems you describe. As everyone here probably knows, I made my doctor agree to reduce my dose of Tap after a few months, because I could feel my body begin to flip from hyper to hypo, and absolutely refuse to gain weight. After that, every time I began to feel my metabolism slow down too much, I would reduce the dose again. I'm wondering if my extreme vanity was what saved me--that is, I wonder if if everyone began reducing their dose as soon as the hypo symptoms began, they could get better right away, as I did. Or maybe I just had a simpler case of the disease with no complications, and it just went away more easily. I raise this now, more than 4 1/2 years after complete recovery, to ask if anyone else did what I did, and got better right away. I think the variable of how long we stay on ATDs after symptoms wane should be considered. If others try what I did, please report what happens. Best to all, AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Hi AntJoan,

No, no one ever even suggested a beta blocker for my palpitations. I have discovered that in order to get tests done, or medications, I have to know about them, and ask for them. I have about zero confidence in western medicine, at least the way it is practised right now. Thanks for the response, AntJoan.

Arlene

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/25/2002 10:55:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, arbuch@... writes:

When I began having some of the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, weight gain, etc.), I was extremely hesitant to reduce my PTU because I was still having severe palpitations. Dear Arlene, I took Atenol, which got rid of the palpitations (before I took it, my heart was 110 bpm resting). Were you taking a beta blocker also, and still had palpitations? AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

I think you are right, Pam, about our body's need to adjust and learn how to

be " normal " again. It has been a big lesson for me to learn to let things

go, and not stress about things like dentist's visits (hey, I even stress

about endo visits, because I feel like I am going to have to fight every

time I go in, for certain tests!) I also have been trying to schedule

myself completely differently about work and try not to worry if I don't get

things on my to-do lists finished each day.

You wrote:

" You know when we are hypo, it is just SO hard to figure this stuff out. "

When I went hypo, I kept getting sicker and sicker and then my thyroid began

hurting, and I felt it was getting larger (my husband couldn't see it, but

by the time I went in and saw an endo, finally, he said my goiter was twice

the normal size) and I kept thinking that perhaps all this was in my mind,

and I was imagining everything. It was when the naturopath had me taking my

basal body temperature that a lightbulb went off in this thick head of mine:

bingo, my temperature was ranging at 76 every day, or even less sometimes.

Then I said to myself " geez, I bet I am hypo " . That is when I was begging

my regular GP's office for a blood test and called them three times in three

weeks, asking for one and finally went in physically saying, " I know I am

probably being a hypochondriac, but I am really sick, and feel like perhaps

I am hypo " . That is when they gave me a slip for a blood test, and yep,

hypo I was. But I was at 300 mg. of PTU at the time, too, so it took me

quite a while to get off this and to feeling OK again.

As far as gardens, and my " survival stuff " - those things which keep me

sane, I am coastal, and can't remember which zone. But I think we have now

passed our last frost date. We had a particularly cold and wet winter, this

year. But that garden is out there waiting for me (over half an acre, with

rose gardens, flower gardens, " secret garden " - backyard, and large veggy

garden.

As far as your eyes burning when you wake up, it sounds to me like dry eyes.

You could try that Refresh Tears which everyone (including my great eye

doctor) recommends. And take heart. My sister who had extremely bad Graves

had such severe eye disease that they wanted to operate on her, since she

couldn't shut her eyes to go to sleep. She said no. They said she would

never be normal again. Guess what? It is now 25 years later, and she

doesn't have Graves' symptoms and she doesn't have the eye disease either!

Take care, Old Pam

(sorta wonder about this - kind of like my family name " Big Arlene " vs.

" Little Arlene " - my niece who also has Graves'. I am 5'1 " and she is

around 5'9 " !!!)

Arlene

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

> Hi Arlene,

> What great news on this fine Sunday morning. :-) Seven weeks !

>

> I too am 'chillin'...my thinking is that right now is the most important

part of this

> whole thing. I just need time to let my body adjust. So I have scheduled

my work load with

> spaces in it, not taking extra jobs, and I did have a bit of a plan in

advance, in that I

> chose this slower time of year to finally do this.

> I wonder if my feeling is correct, that a stress (like a dentist chair)

could set me off

> again ? It seems like once I am on more solid ground, these things will be

more

> manageable. I wonder how long it takes to feel like I am REALLY back in

control ?

>

> Yes, the garden has been a huge part of this. Still just clean up and

weeds. But I did get

> my sweet peas in the ground on valentines day. Old tradition for me,

passed down from my

> Grandma. We planted the sweet peas through the snow a few times. Wonderful

lesson for a

> small child.

> Guessing our weather is similar. We are a zone 7 or 8 depending on the

year. ( USDA zones

> , not the made up ones in Sunset)

>

> Heart palpatations...yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 years on this

alone, and told

> me I had other illnesses, not thyroid all that time. He is highly

respected in the medical

> community, and on the top docs list, because he treats on symptoms not

just lab

> numbers...see how that all went wrong !!!

> I would have continued being ill, spent money on other doctors, been

hooked on pain meds

> for life, and probably given up some where down the line and gone for the

RAI out of

> desperation( and we know that would have only made things worse), had it

not been for

> lists like this, and Elaine's wonderful tolerance for the same question

over and over. :-)

> You know when we are hypo, it is just SO hard to figure this stuff out.

>

> The only way I ever figured it out was finally focusing on a TF4 number

that I remember

> was good, years ago, and ignoring the note on the bottom of every lab slip

that said

> GOOD...followed with instructions telling me to increase meds or stay on

the same amount.

> AND when calling for lab results, fighting the battle to get an EXACT

number !

>

> Then the hawthorne , lemon balm, and bugleweed....don't think I could have

done this

> withdrawal without them.

>

> Eyes....I have very serious eye disease. They looked like big old golf

balls, did not

> close at night, the pain was terrible, and vision was blurry, and not only

double but if

> tired I could see 3 and 4 of everything. The burning I spoke of was way

back inside,

> accompanied by feeling shaky. So I thought it was hyper from no PTU. The

bugleweed was my

> answer at that time. Now I seem to have a slight burn on the surface of

the eye balls when

> I wake up, but then it stops. What do you think?

>

> Old Pam....who didn't know I had this much to say, LOL !

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow! this board has been busy or I've been busy and not had the time to catch up.

Hi Ant Joan and others,

I began reducing my Tapazole 3 weeks after I started taking it. That was all it took for my blood levels to get to low normal. I continued to gradually reduce it over the next 3 months or so until I was only taking 1.25 mgs and then nothing. I've been off ATDs for about 1 1/2 years with normal results until a few weeks ago when, after experimenting with probably too much T3, my TSH dropped below normal. T3 and T4 are both normal. I'm pretty sure it's transitory. I've been feeling really good. I think you have a good point. Perhaps, too much ATD medication for too long is dangerous for you health.

Best wishes to all, Zoey

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/24/2002 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, pladd@... writes:

yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 yearsPam, I wonder how many others on this board were kept "way too hypo" for too long, leading to the problems you describe. As everyone here probably knows, I made my doctor agree to reduce my dose of Tap after a few months, because I could feel my body begin to flip from hyper to hypo, and absolutely refuse to gain weight. After that, every time I began to feel my metabolism slow down too much, I would reduce the dose again. I'm wondering if my extreme vanity was what saved me--that is, I wonder if if everyone began reducing their dose as soon as the hypo symptoms began, they could get better right away, as I did. Or maybe I just had a simpler case of the disease with no complications, and it just went away more easily. I raise this now, more than 4 1/2 years after complete recovery, to ask if anyone else did what I did, and got better right away. I think the variable of how long we stay on ATDs after symptoms wane should be considered. If others try what I did, please report what happens. Best to all, AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Wow! this board has been busy or I've been busy and not had the time to catch up.

Hi Ant Joan and others,

I began reducing my Tapazole 3 weeks after I started taking it. That was all it took for my blood levels to get to low normal. I continued to gradually reduce it over the next 3 months or so until I was only taking 1.25 mgs and then nothing. I've been off ATDs for about 1 1/2 years with normal results until a few weeks ago when, after experimenting with probably too much T3, my TSH dropped below normal. T3 and T4 are both normal. I'm pretty sure it's transitory. I've been feeling really good. I think you have a good point. Perhaps, too much ATD medication for too long is dangerous for you health.

Best wishes to all, Zoey

PS: This is a copy of a message I sent earlier but never received in my email box. Are messages not being forwarded or being dropped? Z

Re: bugleweed...is all nasty tasting?/Arlene

In a message dated 2/24/2002 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, pladd@... writes:

yes, my endo kept me way too hypo for 3 yearsPam, I wonder how many others on this board were kept "way too hypo" for too long, leading to the problems you describe. As everyone here probably knows, I made my doctor agree to reduce my dose of Tap after a few months, because I could feel my body begin to flip from hyper to hypo, and absolutely refuse to gain weight. After that, every time I began to feel my metabolism slow down too much, I would reduce the dose again. I'm wondering if my extreme vanity was what saved me--that is, I wonder if if everyone began reducing their dose as soon as the hypo symptoms began, they could get better right away, as I did. Or maybe I just had a simpler case of the disease with no complications, and it just went away more easily. I raise this now, more than 4 1/2 years after complete recovery, to ask if anyone else did what I did, and got better right away. I think the variable of how long we stay on ATDs after symptoms wane should be considered. If others try what I did, please report what happens. Best to all, AntJoan