Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thanks, I just emailed him. > , > This person might be able to help you. I dont think hed mind I gave you his > email. His machines sound good, I just can't afford one. > Janet > > <A HREF= " mailto:imafc1@j... " >imafc1@j...</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 It is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous snakeoiliness of greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines are still being peddled to desperate people. These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of conscience or remorse for the evil they do. We should declare this group to be an " ozone free zone " . - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Sorry. Wasn't there someone in this group that was pro-ozone for cleanup? Or am I thinking ionic cleaners or something? erik_johnson_96140 <erikj6@...> wrote:It is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous snakeoiliness of greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines are still being peddled to desperate people. These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of conscience or remorse for the evil they do. We should declare this group to be an " ozone free zone " . - __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Gee, I was just thinking the same thing. This will be the next step taken. > > It is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous snakeoiliness of > greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines are still being > peddled to desperate people. > These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of conscience or > remorse for the evil they do. > We should declare this group to be an " ozone free zone " . > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 What is the difference between Ozone generators and Ionic cleaner? Or are they the same ? --- Barb <barb1283@...> wrote: > > Sorry. Wasn't there someone in this group that was > pro-ozone for cleanup? Or am I thinking ionic > cleaners or something? > > erik_johnson_96140 <erikj6@...> wrote:It > is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous > snakeoiliness of > greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines > are still being > peddled to desperate people. > These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of > conscience or > remorse for the evil they do. > We should declare this group to be an " ozone free > zone " . > - > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Ionisers are usually screwed to walls and you can see heavy soiling around them. This soling is usually impossible to remove by conventional cleaning as the particles were electrically charged and flew at the machine impacting around and in it. The box contains an array of wires through which an electrical charge flows, this creates a positive or negative charge which attracts opposite charges ,(dust has an electrical charge which it develops by spinning through the air, caused by air current, " Brownian Motion " etc. The problems is these dust particles fly with great velocity and can impact in lungs where they stick. Also the charge may alter the make up of the contaminate and turn it into something different. These machines sometimes have filters in line too.The ozone machine turns air , oxygen O2 into O3 which is unstable and is an oxidising agent like bleach or specifically hydrogen peroxide which ozone becomes in the presence of moisture. This means if you breath in ozone ,the gas turns to hydrogen peroxide in your nose and respiratory system. It also removes odour, by oxidisation and destroying your sense of smell. Regards Jeff Charlton in London -----Original Message----- From: Bill and Wassel [mailto:wassel5@...] Sent: 08 January 2005 03:51 Subject: Re: [] Re: Ozone Machine What is the difference between Ozone generators and Ionic cleaner? Or are they the same ? --- Barb <barb1283@...> wrote: > > Sorry. Wasn't there someone in this group that was > pro-ozone for cleanup? Or am I thinking ionic > cleaners or something? > > erik_johnson_96140 <erikj6@...> wrote:It > is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous > snakeoiliness of > greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines > are still being > peddled to desperate people. > These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of > conscience or > remorse for the evil they do. > We should declare this group to be an " ozone free > zone " . > - > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Jeff, Thanks for this information. It is first explanation of ionizer and of ozone machines I have understood. My question is if ozone machine creates hydrogen peroxide in presence of moisture and if hydrogen peroxide is one thing affective against mold or MAYBE SOMEWHAT effective, then why not use it in home once in awhile to get into areas I wouldn't be able to get to myself? My doctor said not to run it while I am at home. So if I went away and stayed with a relative or friend while it ran for awhile and came back and turned it off and waited a few more days and returned home, why wouldn't that be harmful and be a way to get at mold or bacteria that I couldn't get to in other ways? Anything that kills bacteria or mold or other living things IS going to be caustic to humans anyway, like other household cleaners you wouldn't want to breath in also. You wouldn't want to breath in borax either diluted or not. I have fresh air intake in home so my air is constantly being exchanged for some outdoor air so in few days probably not much would be in home airborne I would think. In regards to taking advantage of desperate people. My doctor is REALLY a caring doctor who people travel some distance to come to because he does what most doctors don't do, solves problems and spends time with youl. HE really believes this works. I KNOW that doesn't mean it DOES, but he isn't trying to take advantage of me. He has has used it in his own home. **However IF PEOPLE HERE really don't want to discuss anything controversial, then I will not discuss it here. Thanks Jeff Charlton <j-charlton@...> wrote: Ionisers are usually screwed to walls and you can see heavy soiling around them. This soling is usually impossible to remove by conventional cleaning as the particles were electrically charged and flew at the machine impacting around and in it. The box contains an array of wires through which an electrical charge flows, this creates a positive or negative charge which attracts opposite charges ,(dust has an electrical charge which it develops by spinning through the air, caused by air current, " Brownian Motion " etc. The problems is these dust particles fly with great velocity and can impact in lungs where they stick. Also the charge may alter the make up of the contaminate and turn it into something different. These machines sometimes have filters in line too.The ozone machine turns air , oxygen O2 into O3 which is unstable and is an oxidising agent like bleach or specifically hydrogen peroxide which ozone becomes in the presence of moisture. This means if you breath in ozone ,the gas turns to hydrogen peroxide in your nose and respiratory system. It also removes odour, by oxidisation and destroying your sense of smell. Regards Jeff Charlton in London __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Some of what you say sounds like it would have benefits if used properly. Can you point us to some more " pro/con " information? Also, do you know how the ionizer differs from the ozonators that are out there? winslake It > > is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous > > snakeoiliness of > > greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines > > are still being > > peddled to desperate people. > > These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of > > conscience or > > remorse for the evil they do. > > We should declare this group to be an " ozone free > > zone " . > > - > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 ....>>>Some of what you say sounds like it would have benefits if used properly. Can you point us to some more " pro/con " information? Also, do you know how the ionizer differs from the ozonators that are out there?....>>>> Please take a look at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html " Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners: An Assessment of Effectiveness and Health Consequences " Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 From: RLLIPSEY87@... Date: Wed May 28, 2003 8:53 am Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 1636 Ozone is a toxic chemical whether it is produced naturally in a thunderstorm or produced by ozonators or " air purifiers " (or sold by any other name) . Ozone is an OSHA regulated toxic chemical which is 500 times more toxic than carbon monoxide (CO) that kills hundreds of people each year. The federal air standard for ozone is only 0.1 ppm while it is 50 ppm for CO. Ozone attacks mucous membranes, ie the lungs, and causes chronic respiratory disease. NIOSH has published that ozone is not very effective in killing mold or bacteria. Ozone is not " controversial " . It is toxic and dangerous and not effective in controlling mold or bacteria and should never be used in a room with people present, even to remove odors ie smoke damage odors. Dr. L. Lipsey Professor and Toxicologist University of North Florida, ---OSHA HazMat Cert. U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax Poison Control Center Board CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc > Ionisers are usually screwed to walls and you can see heavy soiling around > them. This soling is usually impossible to remove by conventional cleaning > as the particles were electrically charged and flew at the machine impacting > around and in it. The box contains an array of wires through which an > electrical charge flows, this creates a positive or negative charge which > attracts opposite charges ,(dust has an electrical charge which it develops > by spinning through the air, caused by air current, " Brownian Motion " etc. > The problems is these dust particles fly with great velocity and can impact > in lungs where they stick. Also the charge may alter the make up of the > contaminate and turn it into something different. These machines sometimes > have filters in line too.The ozone machine turns air , oxygen O2 into O3 > which is unstable and is an oxidising agent like bleach or specifically > hydrogen peroxide which ozone becomes in the presence of moisture. This > means if you breath in ozone ,the gas turns to hydrogen peroxide in your > nose and respiratory system. It also removes odour, by oxidisation and > destroying your sense of smell. > Regards > Jeff Charlton > in London > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 > In regards to taking advantage of desperate people. My doctor is REALLY a caring doctor who people travel some distance to come to because he does what most doctors don't do, solves problems and spends time with youl. HE really believes this works. I KNOW that doesn't mean it DOES, but he isn't trying to take advantage of me. He has has used it in his own home.< -Barb Sounds like you have a " good " doctor but the ozone purveyors have put out such an impressive line of crap that even the professionals are taken in. The manufacturers are aware of the science and the risks and have chosen to ignore the damage in favor of profits in the same manner as tobacco and pharmaceutical companies. It is sad to see sick people having their precious resources and time stripped from them by these parasites while they are fighting for their lives. One would think that if these companies truly had " moral values " they would cease and desist. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 That's good advice Doc. Barb and others have asked if ozone could be of benefit " Bottom line is possibly, if as the Dr says nobody is in the building and that the ozone machine was timed off hours before you entered the room. Here is the second problem. There is no proof that ozone kills mold. Second point if ozone harmed mold it may cause the mold to fight and release mycotoxins. Third point is that if it did kill mold the mycotoxins and spore contents would rupture and release greater levels of allergenic contents. Mold remediation is about, moisture control first and mold removal not killing. bacteria also have exotoxins so these may be a problem too. Ozone will not penetrate and fans have to be used to keep it airborn as it is heavier than air. Ozone will kill plants destroy rubber and leather. I once visited an old peoples home to assess why everyone seemed to become incontinent. One or two residents were long term incontinent and a ozone salesman convined everyone to purchase hois machine to kill the odor. It killed the odor, nobody could smell anything and everyone was ill. We removed the ozone, improved personal hygiene for a few and the problems went away. Incidently when I look into sick buildings and absenteeism I often find the worst culprits work near the photo copy machines , which produce ozone. Bottom line, I might try ozone if there was limited mold. I would not reccomend it to others. Regards jeff Charlton in London -----Original Message----- From: tigerpaw2c [mailto:tigerpaw2C@...] Sent: 08 January 2005 16:14 Subject: [] Re: Ozone Machine From: RLLIPSEY87@... Date: Wed May 28, 2003 8:53 am Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 1636 Ozone is a toxic chemical whether it is produced naturally in a thunderstorm or produced by ozonators or " air purifiers " (or sold by any other name) . Ozone is an OSHA regulated toxic chemical which is 500 times more toxic than carbon monoxide (CO) that kills hundreds of people each year. The federal air standard for ozone is only 0.1 ppm while it is 50 ppm for CO. Ozone attacks mucous membranes, ie the lungs, and causes chronic respiratory disease. NIOSH has published that ozone is not very effective in killing mold or bacteria. Ozone is not " controversial " . It is toxic and dangerous and not effective in controlling mold or bacteria and should never be used in a room with people present, even to remove odors ie smoke damage odors. Dr. L. Lipsey Professor and Toxicologist University of North Florida, ---OSHA HazMat Cert. U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax Poison Control Center Board CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc > Ionisers are usually screwed to walls and you can see heavy soiling around > them. This soling is usually impossible to remove by conventional cleaning > as the particles were electrically charged and flew at the machine impacting > around and in it. The box contains an array of wires through which an > electrical charge flows, this creates a positive or negative charge which > attracts opposite charges ,(dust has an electrical charge which it develops > by spinning through the air, caused by air current, " Brownian Motion " etc. > The problems is these dust particles fly with great velocity and can impact > in lungs where they stick. Also the charge may alter the make up of the > contaminate and turn it into something different. These machines sometimes > have filters in line too.The ozone machine turns air , oxygen O2 into O3 > which is unstable and is an oxidising agent like bleach or specifically > hydrogen peroxide which ozone becomes in the presence of moisture. This > means if you breath in ozone ,the gas turns to hydrogen peroxide in your > nose and respiratory system. It also removes odour, by oxidisation and > destroying your sense of smell. > Regards > Jeff Charlton > in London > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hi Barb - I'm pro-ozone generator that is utilized for the body, which is entirely different from the generator that cleans the air. The difference is my generator is hooked up to an oxygen tank and has various accessories to use on the body. The one you're referring to is used to clean the air in any rooms/offices. It is a testament to the pernicious verminaceous snakeoiliness of > greedy enterpreneurial parasites that Ozone machines are still being > peddled to desperate people. > These ozone pushers don't seem to have one bit of conscience or > remorse for the evil they do. > We should declare this group to be an " ozone free zone " . > - > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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