mold

[Guest guest]

Many of us are prove of what the CDC said in their letter that I have

posted several times. Mold effects people in differnet ways and

levels. I am sick from the long exposure we had to Toxic Mold,

especially Stachy, in our home. My Wife is even more sensative to it.

Why dwell on a definition so much? If you read my Toxic Mold

legisltion you saw that I used molds. In this definition I listed

Toxic Molds. When trying to cause a solution you need to encompass

all rather than just a few.

What I might suggest, if you are determined to want a Toxic Mold

definition, is to develop your own Toxic Mold legislation for your

state with defintions that you want to use. I would suggest looking

at some legislation in your state that deals with health and build

your own from that.

Ken Moulton

> , if you want a definition on Toxic Mold you might want to write

> to the CDC or Dr. Eckardt Johanning or Dr. Lipsey. I would start

with

> Dr. johanning or Dr. Lipsey first.

> Ken Moulton

>

> Been there, done that. Years ago.

> Van Raalte, Dr Johannings remediologist told me that he

had " Seen

> Stachy falling off the ceiling into babies cribes without developing

> the type of reactivity you describe " .

> The type of reactivity I have is the type that allowed me to locate

a

> spore plume in Dr Marinkovich's own reception room and prove it to

him.

>

> Their concepts of mold do not apply to me and their advice is

> insufficient to help someone with my type of reactivity.

> -

[Guest guest]

Without a definition that constitutes a specific harmful dose of

mycotoxins, it might be argued that if a minority of people in a

building become ill, the fact that the majority did not would

demonstrate in and of itself that even though mold may be bad,

a definite harmful level had not been exceeded.

-

[Guest guest]

Bryce is right. It may have taken 8 years of a wet moldy basement of working to make me sick. Now it takes not a mold spot.

Janet

[Guest guest]

It seems difficult to come up with a way to define whether something is a danger or

merely a passing accident.

Think of a machine gun that was triggered and of the 1000 rounds only 23 hit a human.

For those 23 it was a horrible happening...to others it was a miracle and still others it was

a minority who were hurt and percentage was too low to cause 'worry'.

Any killer running amok is a major danger!!!

How big does a bullet have to be? In the case of mycotoxins a harmful dose is one that

leads to physical harm within any human etc.

It can be very low dose or one that overwelms, a slow acting exposure or one that causes

an imediate reaction. The human immune system is not a constant that can be used to a

situation as a tool to determine a level of dangerous exposure. For some a minor exposure becomes major...others seem to tolerate for a time major exposures...which can lead later to loss

of health. What is a safe level? A Harmful dose?

How big does the bullet have to be to cause injury???

Mycotoxins grow rapidly......!!!!!!! Once inhaled..into the warm moist body....it matters

no longer the size of the exposure....!

Bryce

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:29:58 -0000 "erik_johnson_96140" <erikj6@...> writes:

Without a definition that constitutes a specific harmful dose ofmycotoxins, it might be argued that if a minority of people in abuilding become ill, the fact that the majority did not woulddemonstrate in and of itself that even though mold may be bad,a definite harmful level had not been exceeded.-FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

Avoiding exposure completely is impossible.

A Cornell study demonstrated they can find some levels of mold and

complaints consistent with mold reactivy in 20% of large buildings.

Banta of Restoration Consultants told me he can find some mold in

virtually any building.

I am all for getting the levels of mold that affect me out of

buildings, but I cannot figure out how to quantify it in any

meaningful way.

The variability of secondary metabolites generated by access to

specific substrates and factors of competition between mold species

means that some Stachy can affect me at levels below detection while

other Stachy at high concentrations does not constitute a " toxic

exposure " .

-

[Guest guest]

,

I suggest that you do what many of us have already done in regards to

definition. Either find one that works or don't use one. You spend

too much time discussing " definition " that you lose track of the

overall issue, mold.

Have you tried contacting either the CDC or Ft. Dietrich as I

mentioned. Perhaps you will never find the definition you want. I

still suggest writing your own mold legislation as many have done.

Have you tried that yet?

Again, forget dwelling on definition get to substance.

Ken Moulton

> Avoiding exposure completely is impossible.

> A Cornell study demonstrated they can find some levels of mold and

> complaints consistent with mold reactivy in 20% of large buildings.

> Banta of Restoration Consultants told me he can find some mold

in

> virtually any building.

> I am all for getting the levels of mold that affect me out of

> buildings, but I cannot figure out how to quantify it in any

> meaningful way.

> The variability of secondary metabolites generated by access to

> specific substrates and factors of competition between mold species

> means that some Stachy can affect me at levels below detection while

> other Stachy at high concentrations does not constitute a " toxic

> exposure " .

> -

[Guest guest]

I haven't contacted Fort Dietrick but I did talk to the CDC several

years ago and they do not understand or believe in my type of

reactivity.

Lots of people pass through Reno Tahoe airport without becoming ill,

but I have seen a consistent pattern of people flying in for treatment

of Lyme Disease becoming violently ill after passing through the terminal.

I knew there was mold there because I learned to recognize it but

Stachy was only found recently. They still haven't found out about

Park Lane Mall yet.

I just dropped off someone at the airport. I didn't go inside the

terminal building but I can sure feel it outside.

I think it would be useless for me to ask for legislation to address a

level of mold that drops me and Lyme patients in our tracks but has no

effect on the great majority of travelers.

-

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I'm confused. If you don't define, then what is the substance that

you legislate? If the legislation is written for what helps you, then

it may harm me. If I write the legislation that helps and so do 20

others, then whose law is enforced? I don't see how your response to

helped your cause.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

grimes@...

----------------

> ,

>

> I suggest that you do what many of us have already done in regards to

> definition. Either find one that works or don't use one. You spend too

> much time discussing " definition " that you lose track of the overall

> issue, mold. Have you tried contacting either the CDC or Ft. Dietrich

> as I mentioned. Perhaps you will never find the definition you want. I

> still suggest writing your own mold legislation as many have done.

> Have you tried that yet? Again, forget dwelling on definition get to

> substance.

>

> Ken Moulton

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I agree with Carl. talks of definition of his own reactivity to mold. Which is the same as mine.And as far as legislation, I cant even get help from my senators to save my job. They all think I am crazy!The subtance that harms me is mold. You can have a definition to that as a word or a definition of reaction. Sometimes what works for one doesnt always work for another. You seemed to put down what was writing. When everything he writes, happens to me too.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I was not criticising you OR your legislation. I wish I had the strength to do what you do. And sometimes tones of emails can come across wrong. No offense meant at all. I am very ill and I try to do what I can do. You are working for a goal to help. That is good. It just seemed like you were putting down for his posts. I probably took it wrong.

God Bless,

Janet

[Guest guest]

Janet,

I didn't put anybody down. I recommend that anybody can write their

own legislation on Toxic Mold. It only requires work and research. I

have put my legislation out to everybody and asked for suggestions to

improve it. Many people did give suggestions which I included. Others

decided to criticize it and offered no suggestions.

I always feel if you want to criticize than offer a suggestion on

improvement or don't say anything at all. I have fought for years for

what happened to my family and to others. If people don't agree with

my approach I don't twist their arm instead I go on.

If people want definitions besides what I offer I tell them to

contact the CDC or Ft. Dietich. If they don't than I can't help them

if they won't help themselves. If they disagree with the CDC, people

like Dr. Johanning or Dr. Lipsey or Ft. Dietrich than go figure.

I have other things just as important to do for my family and have

already spent much more time than was needed on the issue of

definitions. Good luck in finding a defintion you want.

Ken Moulton

> Ken,

> I agree with Carl. talks of definition of his own reactivity

to mold.

> Which is the same as mine.And as far as legislation, I cant even

get help from

> my senators to save my job. They all think I am crazy!The subtance

that harms

> me is mold. You can have a definition to that as a word or a

definition of

> reaction. Sometimes what works for one doesnt always work for

another. You

> seemed to put down what was writing. When everything he

writes, happens to me

> too.

> Janet

[Guest guest]

I perceive no insult. This is just a very frustrating issue with no

clear solution.

I have indeed had to reject the information from the CDC, Dr

Marinkovich, Dr Lipsey and Dr Johannings office.

Their concepts of mold simply do not meet my requirements or my

observations.

Sorry Dr Lipsey, no offense, but my contaminated possessions did lose

their effect on me over time and I simply cannot agree with advising

people to throw out some of the articles you describe as unworthy of

retention.

My reactivity varies over time.

I couldn't even write legislation that would consistently apply to

myself. By accompanying others into moldy places I can see that

others are responding at various levels.

Who would the " safe level " be based on?

If it were anyone less sensitive it would do me no good.

If it were for someone more sensitive it would place an unreasonable

burden on others in trying to maintain control of a substance that is

extremely pervasive.

This is like the pefume issue in MCS.

Should perfume be banned from public places or should people with MCS

just have to deal with it if someone wearing scented products comes

too close?

-

[Guest guest]

I have bought a house in Southern AL. It had 2 extra roms in the back that I

have joined to the house by enclosing the breazeway. The back 2 rooms

were not temperture controlled prior to enclosing. There was mold in the

carpet prior to pulling it up and putting down tile. Anything stored in the

rooms

prior to adding to house would grow mold quickly.( The house belonged to my

sister before I bought it). If I don't keep the windows closed and the window

unit on in this part of the house it starts to smell moldy.

I am now adding a closet in the extra room. I have discovered damp wood at

the base of the exterior wall. I have already sealed the concrete on the

exterior and caulked. I believe the moisture is coming from condensation. The

tile will get wet if the windows are left open over night. There is insulation

in

the walls but not in the attic space. I am having a central air system installed

today for the addition. There were 2 other interior walls opened up during

previous renovations. There wasn't any evidence of mold in those 2 walls

which were once exterior walls. It appears to be at the base of several walls.

Upon opening up the wall sockets I can smell mold. When up in the attic I can

not. Will the mold go away if I keep the moisture out? Any suggestions to fix

the problem? Would a dehumidifier help?

[Guest guest]

Is the floor a slab on grade or crawlspace? For slab, dehumidifier

to <50%RH. Don't operate the A/C below 75^F to avoid condensation in

the walls. If there is a crawlspace, cover the earth with plastic

and close the vents. Monitor the %RH, if the %RH is +60%RH,

dehumidify to less than 50%RH.

--- In , " rsnnthomson " <rsthomson@e...>

wrote:

> I have bought a house in Southern AL. It had 2 extra roms in the

back that I

> have joined to the house by enclosing the breazeway. The back 2

rooms

> were not temperture controlled prior to enclosing. There was mold

in the

> carpet prior to pulling it up and putting down tile. Anything

stored in the rooms

> prior to adding to house would grow mold quickly.( The house

belonged to my

> sister before I bought it). If I don't keep the windows closed and

the window

> unit on in this part of the house it starts to smell moldy.

>

> I am now adding a closet in the extra room. I have discovered damp

wood at

> the base of the exterior wall. I have already sealed the concrete

on the

> exterior and caulked. I believe the moisture is coming from

condensation. The

> tile will get wet if the windows are left open over night. There is

insulation in

> the walls but not in the attic space. I am having a central air

system installed

> today for the addition. There were 2 other interior walls opened up

during

> previous renovations. There wasn't any evidence of mold in those 2

walls

> which were once exterior walls. It appears to be at the base of

several walls.

> Upon opening up the wall sockets I can smell mold. When up in the

attic I can

> not. Will the mold go away if I keep the moisture out? Any

suggestions to fix

> the problem? Would a dehumidifier help?

[Guest guest]

Check to see if there are any vapor barriers in the two rooms you

connected. Vapor pressure from outside, could be coming into contact

with the cooler interior wall surface, causing just enough

condensation(sometimes unnoticable) to get the walls barely moist

enough to allow mold to grow.

[Guest guest]

> Check to see if there are any vapor barriers in the two rooms

you

> connected. Vapor pressure from outside, could be coming into

contact

> with the cooler interior wall surface, causing just enough

> condensation(sometimes unnoticable) to get the walls barely moist

> enough to allow mold to grow.

Installing the insulation is a must and will also help, if the

humidity is greater outside than inside your new extension, the vapor

pressure than is greater ouside. Water vapor pressure moves right

thru building materials (why we have vapor barrires), and with no

insulation in the attic would allow ALOT of moisture to enter the

area. More humidity (outside)= greater water vapor pressure / Less

humidity (inside conditioned home) = less water vapor pressure.

Nature always seeks equalibriam, so the outside water vapor will

try to get in any way it can. (Wet also goes to dry, including air)

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for the helpful post. I tried the site for Certified Industrial Hygienist

and could not find the place for it on the site and could not search it either.

Please help.

Thanks again.

mei

[Guest guest]

I had a mold problem in my kitchen from a diswasher that was leaking for years -

prior owners didn't fix it and knowingly ran it while it leaked. Fortunately,

I'm not allergic to mold so it didn't bother me. Good thing, because there was

tons of it. If there is mold you should be able to see it but that doesn't mean

there isn't a very small amount that you can't see. I agree with Ginger, get

someone else to clean it if it bothers you. Also, if you do find mold it is

usually covered under your home owner's policy.

Jackie <jackie_maloy@...> wrote: Hi,

I've been on Xolair since February, and it's been great for me, almost from the

first shot.

Now I've got a small problem. I live in a 50 year old house which has had some

mold

issues in the past (resolved by remediation at great expense...).

I just noticed that I've had a BIG leak under my kitchen sink, and the pipe is

attached to

dishwasher, clothes washer, ice maker--all sorts of things that I've been using

unaware

that there's a small stream under the pipe. Once I realized what was happening,

I was so

disgusted that I grabbed all the boxes and cleaners from under the sink, mopped

up the

mess, and poured a bunch of Comet on the wet wood underneath. I probably should

have

had someone else do the cleaning since now I've got really bad rhinitis and am

coughing.

Of course, it's also pretty bad outdoors (I live in the Southwest, and fires and

ragweed are

the problems.)

A quick question for any of you who might know more about this kind of stuff--if

the

wood is warped from water damage, does that automatically mean mold is there,

too?

Thanks, and good health!

Jackie

---------------------------------

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