RE: possibly buying a home with mold

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I really hate to see you make a mistake like that just because it's cheaper than the going rate. What it would take to repair and remediate might cost you much more than you bargained for and the nature of mold would just leave you broke and still the problem would be there. Just read this article and find out more about mold. It's pretty bad when you ALREADY know that there is a mold problem before you buy it.

http://www.moldinstruction.com/melinda_ballard_news.htm

Rose Briggs

>From: "markrbutcher"

>Reply- > >Subject: [] possibly buying a home with mold >Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:53:32 -0000 > >Can anyone tell me th truth about mold. I have the opportunity to buy >a home that claims to have a mold problem. This problem, is at this >time is untreated. The home is worth 500K and i can get it for 350K. > >Everyone I ask has diferent ideas from "Mold is not a real issue" >to "mold can kill You" What is the truth. What effect does it have on >the market price of the home after it is treated, can it really be >treated? > >Thanks > >Mark > > High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software.

[Guest guest]

Such a Killer Deal!

Yep, those realtors are doing the " Texas Two Step " as fast as they can

dance. They'll be dancin' on your grave too.

-

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark! Did you say they offered to pay you $500,000 for this house if you accept it?

Its no bargan at any price ..... It would likely need to be fully renovated..and even then

would still be subject to the orginal causes.

Don't get suckered into this at any price!!!

The cure for a sick mold house is a big bon fire.

Bryce

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:53:32 -0000 "markrbutcher" <markrbutcher@...> writes:

Can anyone tell me th truth about mold. I have the opportunity to buy a home that claims to have a mold problem. This problem, is at this time is untreated. The home is worth 500K and i can get it for 350K.Everyone I ask has diferent ideas from "Mold is not a real issue" to "mold can kill You" What is the truth. What effect does it have on the market price of the home after it is treated, can it really be treated?ThanksMarkFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

The value of this deal depends on just how bad the mold is and how much it

will cost to make it safely habitable.

Assuming your family members are not yet sensitive to mold, chances are

that you will be able to move into the home and notice nothing, except

perhaps a faint musty odor. This may not even appear until spring when

inside relative humidity rises with warmer outside temperatures. Then, if

left untreated, you or members of your family, may start to develop allergic

reactions- chronic sinus problems, a light cough which gets worse over time,

headaches, asthma, and then assorted other problems others on this board

have reported. Children may spend more time in the home than a father at

work all day, and thus be the first to be affected. Sensitization creeps up

on you slowly, causing health problems you may be slow to realize are

building related. Only getting away from the building and feeling better

will convince you of the link.

Virtually all molds produce mycotoxins of some sort. Some of these are

toxic to humans, some not. But many are minor immunosuppressants, leaving

your bodies more susceptible to colds and other illnesses going around

schools and workplaces. (Cyclosporin, as one example, is a mold derived

immunosuppresant used for inhibition of tissue rejection in transplant

patients.)

Now, just how bad is the mold problem? Is it visible? Simple visible mold

in the kitchen or bathroom can be easily cleaned, then disinfected with

dilute Clorox. However, most mold problems are more insidious. Leaky roofs

and walls may require very extensive work. Try an internet search for DryVit

Systems. This is one brand of exterior insulating synthetic stucco which has

been linked to health problems, sometimes causing houses' exterior walls to

require reconstruction, due to rotting of wall studs. When such is the case,

even if the studs are OK, drywall and fiberglass or cellulosic insulation

must all be completely removed and replaced after the exterior problems are

corrected for successful remediation. Is part of the value of this home in a

basement family room or bedroom? Virtually all concrete or block basement

walls develop minor cracks after sufficient time. Or at least the walls are

porous enough to allow humidity to enter from the soil outside. This

moisture behind drywall or wood paneling can cause enough mold growth to

trigger health problems in anyone spending significant time there. You may

want to remove all such finishing and simply paint these concrete walls with

mold resistant paint. Then use a dehumidifier to maintain relative humidity

at under 50%.

And don't forget the HVAC. Any home with mold problems probably has the

HVAC contaminated, spreading allergenic or toxic spores continuously

throughout the house. Once other repairs are made, the HVAC should be

replaced, or at least thoroughly cleaned, making sure and fiberglass

ductboard is removed and replaced with sheet metal ducts. Also beware of

fiberglass insulation in sheet metal ducts and furnace plenums. Shut off or

remove any furnace humidifier. Make sure the AC drain pan drains properly,

and disinfect it with chlorine bleach regularly (drain lines commonly plug

up with mold). Remediation is quite possible. But make sure you know what

you are getting into, and expect major expensive surprises. Is the seller

paranoid, or is the $150,000 you expect to save a realistic estimate for

remediation repairs.

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:53:32 -0000

From: " markrbutcher " <markrbutcher@...>

Subject: possibly buying a home with mold

Can anyone tell me the truth about mold. I have the opportunity to buy a

home that claims to have a mold problem. This problem, is at this time is

untreated. The home is worth 500K and I can get it for 350K.

Everyone I ask has different ideas from " Mold is not a real issue " to " mold

can kill You " What is the truth. What effect does it have on the market

price of the home after it is treated, can it really be treated?

Thanks

Mark

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Mark,

I certainly concur with Gil's comments and evaluation suggestions

(repeated below). Your questions raise may related issues, also. I

would add that the house be professionally inspected and assessed in

regards to the mold issues. Easy to say, hard to do as there are as

many opinions here as with what you have already been receiving.

For guidance, become familiar with -- or find a professional with the

training, education and experience in mold assessment -- currently

published documents such as:

--NYC Dept of Health Guidelines at:

http://nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/moldrpt1.html

--EPA various documents at www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/

--ACGIH book Bioaerosols Assessment and Control www.acgih.org

--Indoor Air Quality Assoc at www.iaqa.org

--American Indoor Air Quality Council at www.indoor-air-quality.org/

--IICRC S520 Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Mold

Remediation, available from www.iicrc.org, www.iaqa.org and

www.indoor-air-quality.org

--IICRC S500 Standard and Reference Gude for Professional Water

Damage Restoration, also from www.iicrc.org

Also, as Gil alluded and as I've found in both my personal experience

and with my professional clients over 17 years, people react

differently at different times to different exposures. Just because

an individual is reaction free now doesn't mean they won't become

sensitized later. Depends on genetics, prior exposure history etc etc

etc. Also, just because one or several people are susceptible doesn't

mean everybody is or that you will be.

I have found that individuals who do react or become reactive will

vary as to impact. One person may experience typical hay fever type

symptoms, a different person 3 days of vomiting migraines or a

prolonged episode of chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia; and

another a life threatening asthma attack, etc. Some episodes will be

shortlived and end with the exposure, others may be prolonged,

chronic or even disabllng. Just ask most of the participants of this

group!

With sustained exposure some individuals become disabled by severe

illness and are highly reactive to a multitude of other exposures.

Similar to what Dr refers to as Toxicant Induced Loss

of Tolerance (TILT). And it may not be (just) the mold. Some people

successfully remediate the mold ony to react, for example, to the

chemical outgassing of the new building materials.

With these complications it is often difficult to gather information

you can understand and trust to form the basis of an informed

decision.

Which profile are you? No reactivity, slight, moderate, severe,

unknown? Is it impossible to determine? Sometimes. Is it possible to

figure this out? Usually. But you need someone who can assist you in

comparing the types and levels of exposure sources with what you are

reactive to and at what level of impact. Then determine what needs to

be done to the house to meet your individual needs and estimate the

possibility of success.

Your final determination will use all the above information to make

an individual choice -- which is certainly different than the basis

for a legal decision. Legal issues are important but that doesn't

mean we should take care of ourselves based on what we think a judge

would say. Rather it is experiential and certainly not just medical

or just measurements with expensive instruments and it is impossible

with double-blind controls for a single person.

Finally, the S520 has taken the position, contrary to the other

documents, to not base their guidance only on visibility and/or

numerical values as to area, density, concentraion or other levels of

mold because, to quote from Section 15 and the Preface:

" ... because of the wide range of occupant susceptibility and the

inability to precisely measure exposure, along with insufficient

science to support conclusions .... "

That does not mean they discount health efects or the suffering of

occupants. Chapter 2 of the Reference Guide covers this quite nicely

and is one of the cornerstones for the remediation procedures. What

it means is that although the science is not definitive, there is

still reason and need to act.

Which is similar to the position taken by the American Society of

Safety Engineers in their statement on worker protection:

" Standard of Care

Mold assessment and remediation work is being performed and is going

to continue to be performed, whether or not there is a consensus

standard. Developing guidelines when the adverse health effects of

the work environment are not well defined or where the science is

still maturing is not a new approach. ...There is a need to move

forward with establishing some framework in which workers can be

protected from the potential adverse health effects of mold and in

which persons needing to address mold-related issues can evaluate any

proposed preventive or remediation measures. " (Excerpts from:

www.asse.org/mold-1003_indoor.htm)

Carl E Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

grimes@...

303-671-9653

www.habitats.com

---------------------------------

> The value of this deal depends on just how bad the mold is and

how

> much it

> will cost to make it safely habitable.

>

> Assuming your family members are not yet sensitive to mold,

chances

> are

> that you will be able to move into the home and notice nothing,

except

> perhaps a faint musty odor. This may not even appear until spring

when

> inside relative humidity rises with warmer outside temperatures.

Then,

> if left untreated, you or members of your family, may start to

develop

> allergic reactions- chronic sinus problems, a light cough which

gets

> worse over time, headaches, asthma, and then assorted other

problems

> others on this board have reported. Children may spend more time in

> the home than a father at work all day, and thus be the first to be

> affected. Sensitization creeps up on you slowly, causing health

> problems you may be slow to realize are building related. Only

getting

> away from the building and feeling better will convince you of the

> link.

>

> Virtually all molds produce mycotoxins of some sort. Some of

these

> are

> toxic to humans, some not. But many are minor immunosuppressants,

> leaving your bodies more susceptible to colds and other illnesses

> going around schools and workplaces. (Cyclosporin, as one example,

is

> a mold derived immunosuppresant used for inhibition of tissue

> rejection in transplant patients.)

>

> Now, just how bad is the mold problem? Is it visible? Simple

visible

> mold

> in the kitchen or bathroom can be easily cleaned, then disinfected

> with dilute Clorox. However, most mold problems are more insidious.

> Leaky roofs and walls may require very extensive work. Try an

internet

> search for DryVit Systems. This is one brand of exterior insulating

> synthetic stucco which has been linked to health problems,

sometimes

> causing houses' exterior walls to require reconstruction, due to

> rotting of wall studs. When such is the case, even if the studs are

> OK, drywall and fiberglass or cellulosic insulation must all be

> completely removed and replaced after the exterior problems are

> corrected for successful remediation. Is part of the value of this

> home in a basement family room or bedroom? Virtually all concrete

or

> block basement walls develop minor cracks after sufficient time. Or

at

> least the walls are porous enough to allow humidity to enter from

the

> soil outside. This moisture behind drywall or wood paneling can

cause

> enough mold growth to trigger health problems in anyone spending

> significant time there. You may want to remove all such finishing

and

> simply paint these concrete walls with mold resistant paint. Then

use

> a dehumidifier to maintain relative humidity at under 50%.

>

> And don't forget the HVAC. Any home with mold problems probably

has

> the

> HVAC contaminated, spreading allergenic or toxic spores

continuously

> throughout the house. Once other repairs are made, the HVAC should

be

> replaced, or at least thoroughly cleaned, making sure and

fiberglass

> ductboard is removed and replaced with sheet metal ducts. Also

beware

> of fiberglass insulation in sheet metal ducts and furnace plenums.

> Shut off or remove any furnace humidifier. Make sure the AC drain

pan

> drains properly, and disinfect it with chlorine bleach regularly

> (drain lines commonly plug up with mold). Remediation is quite

> possible. But make sure you know what you are getting into, and

expect

> major expensive surprises. Is the seller paranoid, or is the

$150,000

> you expect to save a realistic estimate for remediation repairs.

>

>

>

> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:53:32 -0000

> From: " markrbutcher " <markrbutcher@...>

> Subject: possibly buying a home with mold

>

> Can anyone tell me the truth about mold. I have the opportunity to

buy

> a home that claims to have a mold problem. This problem, is at this

> time is untreated. The home is worth 500K and I can get it for

350K.

>

> Everyone I ask has different ideas from " Mold is not a real issue "

to

> " mold can kill You " What is the truth. What effect does it have on

the

> market price of the home after it is treated, can it really be

> treated?

>

> Thanks

>

> Mark

[snip]