Re: I had posted because I had not responded to several courses of cipro and....

[Guest guest]

JK>   Need help, ideas?

, ask your doctor about Minocyn, the low dose Doxycycline for

long term use. Also ask if colloidal silver to wash out the eyes would

hurt. I don't think it would. I've taken cipro many times with no side

effects. Levaquin, in the same family, can be bad.

Barth

TOXIC MOLD SURVEY: www.presenting.net/sbs/sbssurvey.html

[Guest guest]

;

I am not sure if you had said this or not, but have your doctors done fungal cultures? When getting these it is important to ask for the correct one, they can be cultured on agar, or cornstarch, not all fungi will grow on both, and the lab has to watch the culture carefully, if you have two fungi one will grow rapidly, then the other will start to grow and kill off the first. So if they didn't watch, all they see is the last one.

Aren't most antibiotics are derived from some form of MYCOTOXIN? Penicillin is the mycotoxin that Penicillium gives off. The fungi are engaging in biological warfare against any other competitor for food, and bacteria are in this group.

When you are exposed to mycotoxins from mold, they lower your immune system. When your immune system is low, you are prone to infections, so even if you have fungal infections in your sinuses and eyes, and continue to be exposed to mycotoxins, you will have all kinds of other opportunistic infections, those bacteria that aren't specifically affected by the mycotoxin that you are exposed to.

The question is: Do you take an antibiotic to fight opportunistic infections? I am no Doctor, but I would say that it depends a lot on your toxic load, and weather you are fighting the fungal infections firstly.

The problem is that most Doctors don't believe in fungal infections, and 99.9% of them do not believe in toxicity due to mold exposure, most of the time they just ignore this and other IAQ/environmental exposures unless it is something obvious, like mercury or something that they have a blood test for.

Have fungal cultures done by your doctors, it takes about three weeks to get results, maybe more, but it is worth it. Get out of the mold exposure to lessen the toxic load, begin detox, then fight the fungal infections.

I hope this helps.

Brad Marsh

-----Original Message-----From: K [mailto:knightshotter@...]Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:57 AM Subject: [] I had posted because I had not responded to several courses of cipro and....Not responding to antibiotics; received this advicefrom the list but allergic to most antibiotics. i wastold by one "mold expert" that he thought I had moldimmune toxicty. Wanted $5K worth of tests to verifythis, money that is of course not covered byinsurance. I am alraedy on medical leave and myposition has been eliminated so trying to be carefulwith money till I know what's what. I agree that sinceI still have symptoms of infection (bladder from whatI can tell) I should remain on antibtiocs but myprimary care doc didn't agree and then the problembecmes my anaphylatic reaction to most medications. Ihave been officially documented throughhospitalization wtih anaphylatic reaction to PCN,sulfa, keflex, erythomycin. I can tolerate zithromaxbut have nevr ever responded and have always had toend up on cipro.A month ago, I was put on a med in the cipro familyfor 10 days and then 5 days on cipro itself. Waitingfor urology referral but waiting for specialistreferrals and the apppts a month later is the story ofmy life so I wait. a suggested zithromax, see above. You asked abouteye antiobtiocs. I have been on more eye antiobtiocsthan I can discuss. I am allergic it appears to thepreservatives or other components including the yellowdyes (tartrazine), sodium edetate even. I was on ciproeye drops. We knew I could tolerate cipro but not theeye drops which resulted in the top half of my headeyes, cheeks, face, remaining bright purple andinflamed looking with horrendous conjunctivitissymptoms. Interestingly, after 15 months straight of eyeinfection not resolving, the 10 days of levaquinresulted in an eye problem that resolved completely.....well sort of. Except now I am told the infectionthis time looks herpetic in nature, not herpesspecifically and indeed the hospital calls a few weekslater (this week) to say the only culture positive wasfor staph which the cornea opthamologist said would benormal . (Med notes from docs refer to them as ulcerlesions) In any case, I am now 6 weeks free ofsym[ptoms of infection in my eye but I now have whatis being called trigeminal neuralagia or a shingleslike PHN. Neuro shakes his head, not sure, maybeBechets, waiting for MRI Monday and appt he has withme on Friday but meanwhile he won't take my calls andwon't see me despite increasingly worse neurosymptoms. Being 3 days post my latest 5 days on cipromade me wonder about the CNS symptoms (exactly what isgoing on) I am having. A local ER gave me narcoticpain meds over the weekend but I didn't fill them.Pain meds are not something that provides me muchrelief so I wait it out.The writer said 2. DO NOT TAKE CIPRO OR ANY QUINOLONEFOR ANYTHING. This family of antibiotics is extremely dangerous. But now my docsand I both struggle with okay what do I take thatdoesn't cause anaphylatic reaction or the larynxswelling or severe hives. You said will cause central nervous system damagesometimes within 3 days so my response since cipro hasbeen the only drug of choice for more than 10 years(except this course of levaquin in the hospital),whatexactly do they give me. You said There is no need to ever take this family ofantibiotics. But my response is see above. Zpacksdon't work and I haven't been precribed anyother RX(see comments above). My family care doc I thinkscreams when I come in for yet another referral appt.So now what???? Did the doctor give you an antibiotic in an eyedrop? Yes, but which one did I not have allergicreactonis to. No opthamologist has come up with a newone to try that doesn't turn purple streaks across myeyes and forehead or worse symptoms. For example, theydropped the eye drop last month in the hospital when Iwas getting the levaquin and then oral cipro. Thecipro eye drops may have been the worst reaction butthen the plain saline at the market with sodiumedetate had bad reactins too. 4 years ago, I couldhave used any product.a said her son took an eye drop so I was wonderingwhich one. do you have any other ideas or specialistsI should see. The workup at the moment remains the MRIof head ande waiting for the neuro and rheum apptslater in the month and a new referral to a urologistbut no appt or specialist approval received from, docas of yesterday's follow up call.tentative diagnosis are bechet's, this post shinglesneuralagia, and other essentially guesses. Some of theabnormal lab work was included in the last email andincluded: SED Rate High 25 CRP 10.2 told this means inflammatory process carbon dioxide 20 Low RDW 15.8 High ALt Liver enzyme 79 H AST Liver Enzyme 45 H Bun/Creatine Level 38.3 H Mixed flora in urine Temps ranging from 100-102 in doctor's office and at home Culture from eye while in hospital has finally come back as positive with high quantities of staph. Iwas on cipro from 7 days and again for 5 days with no resolution of symptoms. They did not put me back on antibiotics. Very poor followup care from primary care docs and specialists and lots of pressure from my company due to medical leave Need help, ideas?FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

Boy, , talk about "fools rush in." Please excuse me for vastly oversimplifying. I don't know the solution in your case, but will just share a couple more things that occured to me while reading your case - again call me a fool....<grin>

My son did use a quinolone eye drop. I was worried about it but his doc felt there was less risk since it would be absorbed directly into the locus of the infection.

My only other thought would be that you mention Z pacs. Z pacs are actually rather low doses of Zithromax. You take 500 mg the first day then 250 mg for the next 4 days. That is not much Zithromax. I took 500 mg a day for months at a time. IF the Zithromax seemed to work at all for you perhaps a higher dose for a longer period would work. I am just thinking out loud. One thing is for sure, unless you have an allergic reaction to Zithromax it is considered safer than any quinolone.

Again, I am not trying to act like I know the answers. But just sharing our experience. I sure hope you can find something that works.

a Carnes

----- Original Message -----

From: K

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:56 PM

Subject: [] I had posted because I had not responded to several courses of cipro and....

Not responding to antibiotics; received this advicefrom the list but allergic to most antibiotics. i wastold by one "mold expert" that he thought I had moldimmune toxicty. Wanted $5K worth of tests to verifythis, money that is of course not covered byinsurance. I am alraedy on medical leave and myposition has been eliminated so trying to be carefulwith money till I know what's what. I agree that sinceI still have symptoms of infection (bladder from whatI can tell) I should remain on antibtiocs but myprimary care doc didn't agree and then the problembecmes my anaphylatic reaction to most medications. Ihave been officially documented throughhospitalization wtih anaphylatic reaction to PCN,sulfa, keflex, erythomycin. I can tolerate zithromaxbut have nevr ever responded and have always had toend up on cipro.A month ago, I was put on a med in the cipro familyfor 10 days and then 5 days on cipro itself. Waitingfor urology referral but waiting for specialistreferrals and the apppts a month later is the story ofmy life so I wait. a suggested zithromax, see above. You asked abouteye antiobtiocs. I have been on more eye antiobtiocsthan I can discuss. I am allergic it appears to thepreservatives or other components including the yellowdyes (tartrazine), sodium edetate even. I was on ciproeye drops. We knew I could tolerate cipro but not theeye drops which resulted in the top half of my headeyes, cheeks, face, remaining bright purple andinflamed looking with horrendous conjunctivitissymptoms. Interestingly, after 15 months straight of eyeinfection not resolving, the 10 days of levaquinresulted in an eye problem that resolved completely.....well sort of. Except now I am told the infectionthis time looks herpetic in nature, not herpesspecifically and indeed the hospital calls a few weekslater (this week) to say the only culture positive wasfor staph which the cornea opthamologist said would benormal . (Med notes from docs refer to them as ulcerlesions) In any case, I am now 6 weeks free ofsym[ptoms of infection in my eye but I now have whatis being called trigeminal neuralagia or a shingleslike PHN. Neuro shakes his head, not sure, maybeBechets, waiting for MRI Monday and appt he has withme on Friday but meanwhile he won't take my calls andwon't see me despite increasingly worse neurosymptoms. Being 3 days post my latest 5 days on cipromade me wonder about the CNS symptoms (exactly what isgoing on) I am having. A local ER gave me narcoticpain meds over the weekend but I didn't fill them.Pain meds are not something that provides me muchrelief so I wait it out.The writer said 2. DO NOT TAKE CIPRO OR ANY QUINOLONEFOR ANYTHING. This family of antibiotics is extremely dangerous. But now my docsand I both struggle with okay what do I take thatdoesn't cause anaphylatic reaction or the larynxswelling or severe hives. You said will cause central nervous system damagesometimes within 3 days so my response since cipro hasbeen the only drug of choice for more than 10 years(except this course of levaquin in the hospital),whatexactly do they give me. You said There is no need to ever take this family ofantibiotics. But my response is see above. Zpacksdon't work and I haven't been precribed anyother RX(see comments above). My family care doc I thinkscreams when I come in for yet another referral appt.So now what???? Did the doctor give you an antibiotic in an eyedrop? Yes, but which one did I not have allergicreactonis to. No opthamologist has come up with a newone to try that doesn't turn purple streaks across myeyes and forehead or worse symptoms. For example, theydropped the eye drop last month in the hospital when Iwas getting the levaquin and then oral cipro. Thecipro eye drops may have been the worst reaction butthen the plain saline at the market with sodiumedetate had bad reactins too. 4 years ago, I couldhave used any product.a said her son took an eye drop so I was wonderingwhich one. do you have any other ideas or specialistsI should see. The workup at the moment remains the MRIof head ande waiting for the neuro and rheum apptslater in the month and a new referral to a urologistbut no appt or specialist approval received from, docas of yesterday's follow up call.tentative diagnosis are bechet's, this post shinglesneuralagia, and other essentially guesses. Some of theabnormal lab work was included in the last email andincluded: SED Rate High 25 CRP 10.2 told this means inflammatory process carbon dioxide 20 Low RDW 15.8 High ALt Liver enzyme 79 H AST Liver Enzyme 45 H Bun/Creatine Level 38.3 H Mixed flora in urine Temps ranging from 100-102 in doctor's office and at home Culture from eye while in hospital has finally come back as positive with high quantities of staph. Iwas on cipro from 7 days and again for 5 days with no resolution of symptoms. They did not put me back on antibiotics. Very poor followup care from primary care docs and specialists and lots of pressure from my company due to medical leave Need help, ideas?FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

Boy, , talk about "fools rush in." Please excuse me for vastly oversimplifying. I don't know the solution in your case, but will just share a couple more things that occured to me while reading your case - again call me a fool....<grin>

My son did use a quinolone eye drop. I was worried about it but his doc felt there was less risk since it would be absorbed directly into the locus of the infection.

My only other thought would be that you mention Z pacs. Z pacs are actually rather low doses of Zithromax. You take 500 mg the first day then 250 mg for the next 4 days. That is not much Zithromax. I took 500 mg a day for months at a time. IF the Zithromax seemed to work at all for you perhaps a higher dose for a longer period would work. I am just thinking out loud. One thing is for sure, unless you have an allergic reaction to Zithromax it is considered safer than any quinolone.

Again, I am not trying to act like I know the answers. But just sharing our experience. I sure hope you can find something that works.

a Carnes

----- Original Message -----

From: K

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:56 PM

Subject: [] I had posted because I had not responded to several courses of cipro and....

Not responding to antibiotics; received this advicefrom the list but allergic to most antibiotics. i wastold by one "mold expert" that he thought I had moldimmune toxicty. Wanted $5K worth of tests to verifythis, money that is of course not covered byinsurance. I am alraedy on medical leave and myposition has been eliminated so trying to be carefulwith money till I know what's what. I agree that sinceI still have symptoms of infection (bladder from whatI can tell) I should remain on antibtiocs but myprimary care doc didn't agree and then the problembecmes my anaphylatic reaction to most medications. Ihave been officially documented throughhospitalization wtih anaphylatic reaction to PCN,sulfa, keflex, erythomycin. I can tolerate zithromaxbut have nevr ever responded and have always had toend up on cipro.A month ago, I was put on a med in the cipro familyfor 10 days and then 5 days on cipro itself. Waitingfor urology referral but waiting for specialistreferrals and the apppts a month later is the story ofmy life so I wait. a suggested zithromax, see above. You asked abouteye antiobtiocs. I have been on more eye antiobtiocsthan I can discuss. I am allergic it appears to thepreservatives or other components including the yellowdyes (tartrazine), sodium edetate even. I was on ciproeye drops. We knew I could tolerate cipro but not theeye drops which resulted in the top half of my headeyes, cheeks, face, remaining bright purple andinflamed looking with horrendous conjunctivitissymptoms. Interestingly, after 15 months straight of eyeinfection not resolving, the 10 days of levaquinresulted in an eye problem that resolved completely.....well sort of. Except now I am told the infectionthis time looks herpetic in nature, not herpesspecifically and indeed the hospital calls a few weekslater (this week) to say the only culture positive wasfor staph which the cornea opthamologist said would benormal . (Med notes from docs refer to them as ulcerlesions) In any case, I am now 6 weeks free ofsym[ptoms of infection in my eye but I now have whatis being called trigeminal neuralagia or a shingleslike PHN. Neuro shakes his head, not sure, maybeBechets, waiting for MRI Monday and appt he has withme on Friday but meanwhile he won't take my calls andwon't see me despite increasingly worse neurosymptoms. Being 3 days post my latest 5 days on cipromade me wonder about the CNS symptoms (exactly what isgoing on) I am having. A local ER gave me narcoticpain meds over the weekend but I didn't fill them.Pain meds are not something that provides me muchrelief so I wait it out.The writer said 2. DO NOT TAKE CIPRO OR ANY QUINOLONEFOR ANYTHING. This family of antibiotics is extremely dangerous. But now my docsand I both struggle with okay what do I take thatdoesn't cause anaphylatic reaction or the larynxswelling or severe hives. You said will cause central nervous system damagesometimes within 3 days so my response since cipro hasbeen the only drug of choice for more than 10 years(except this course of levaquin in the hospital),whatexactly do they give me. You said There is no need to ever take this family ofantibiotics. But my response is see above. Zpacksdon't work and I haven't been precribed anyother RX(see comments above). My family care doc I thinkscreams when I come in for yet another referral appt.So now what???? Did the doctor give you an antibiotic in an eyedrop? Yes, but which one did I not have allergicreactonis to. No opthamologist has come up with a newone to try that doesn't turn purple streaks across myeyes and forehead or worse symptoms. For example, theydropped the eye drop last month in the hospital when Iwas getting the levaquin and then oral cipro. Thecipro eye drops may have been the worst reaction butthen the plain saline at the market with sodiumedetate had bad reactins too. 4 years ago, I couldhave used any product.a said her son took an eye drop so I was wonderingwhich one. do you have any other ideas or specialistsI should see. The workup at the moment remains the MRIof head ande waiting for the neuro and rheum apptslater in the month and a new referral to a urologistbut no appt or specialist approval received from, docas of yesterday's follow up call.tentative diagnosis are bechet's, this post shinglesneuralagia, and other essentially guesses. Some of theabnormal lab work was included in the last email andincluded: SED Rate High 25 CRP 10.2 told this means inflammatory process carbon dioxide 20 Low RDW 15.8 High ALt Liver enzyme 79 H AST Liver Enzyme 45 H Bun/Creatine Level 38.3 H Mixed flora in urine Temps ranging from 100-102 in doctor's office and at home Culture from eye while in hospital has finally come back as positive with high quantities of staph. Iwas on cipro from 7 days and again for 5 days with no resolution of symptoms. They did not put me back on antibiotics. Very poor followup care from primary care docs and specialists and lots of pressure from my company due to medical leave Need help, ideas?FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

This seems like good ideas - I must add though that the postal workers

exposed to anthrax in DC took cipro for what, 60 days? Many of them

developed tendon and CNS problems. I think reports on problems cover all the

quinolone antibiotics. My problem was tied to Levaquin and then Avelox - one

month on each - not a great idea.

a Carnes

> JK> Need help, ideas?

>

> , ask your doctor about Minocyn, the low dose Doxycycline for

> long term use. Also ask if colloidal silver to wash out the eyes would

> hurt. I don't think it would. I've taken cipro many times with no side

> effects. Levaquin, in the same family, can be bad.

>

> Barth

[Guest guest]

This seems like good ideas - I must add though that the postal workers

exposed to anthrax in DC took cipro for what, 60 days? Many of them

developed tendon and CNS problems. I think reports on problems cover all the

quinolone antibiotics. My problem was tied to Levaquin and then Avelox - one

month on each - not a great idea.

a Carnes

> JK> Need help, ideas?

>

> , ask your doctor about Minocyn, the low dose Doxycycline for

> long term use. Also ask if colloidal silver to wash out the eyes would

> hurt. I don't think it would. I've taken cipro many times with no side

> effects. Levaquin, in the same family, can be bad.

>

> Barth