Re: Spirulina

July 9, 2003

more leafy type greens like turnips, spinach, collards, mustard greens, etc.

July 10, 2003

What do you mean by "other greens"?

Like green beans? Spinach? ect???

deej

----- Original Message -----

From: CrystalRDH@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:11 PM

Subject: Spirulina

,Dr. Kolb advises us to stay away from spirulina and other greens because apparently it increases our cytokines. This will exacerbate your symptoms. knows a lot about this. Hopefully she will see this and post some info about it.Take Care,Crystal

July 10, 2003

Deej,

I couldn't handle the concentrated greens, like chlorella or chlorophyll, wheat grass juice, spirulina, blue green algae, any of that stuff. Even juicing alot of greens gets me messed up.

I think we can safely eat all kinds of green vegetables, tho. I never have a problem with salads. It is just all that concentrated green stuff that gives me problems with brain fog. Happens every time.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: DepoDeeva

Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:22 PM

Subject: Re: Spirulina

What do you mean by "other greens"?

Like green beans? Spinach? ect???

deej

July 10, 2003

and to stay away from tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, egg plant -

I think I heard something not so positive about spirulina somewhere, but don't know what it was....

Sunday ()

-----Original Message-----From: DepoDeeva [mailto:DepoReporter@...]Sent: Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2003 00:22 Subject: Re: Spirulina

What do you mean by "other greens"?

Like green beans? Spinach? ect???

deej

----- Original Message -----

From: CrystalRDH@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:11 PM

Subject: Spirulina

,Dr. Kolb advises us to stay away from spirulina and other greens because apparently it increases our cytokines. This will exacerbate your symptoms. knows a lot about this. Hopefully she will see this and post some info about it.Take Care,Crystal

July 10, 2003

Michele, as Crystal said- I had issues with this: Please stay away from any cytokines at this time, found in excessive amounts of green juicing or large amounts of greens! Most ill people needed these to regain health, as they are deficent, we do not have a nutritional issue, we have more of a toxic issue. And have too many of these. I went and saw Dr Mercola, and was told to go on the juicing, and was doing 2 pounds of fresh vegtable juicing every morning.I should have listened to my body, if it smells bad, you do not need it, and your body is telling something! I would drink it, and get so sick later on.Nausiated, headaches, and then a week later all this numbess, and tingling returned. Dr Kolb told me to stop immediatly, and added no juicing to her protocol. Too many cytokines will cause Neuro symptoms, and we do not need them.

I do eat about 70% raw veggies for my diet now, but had to work up slow on the raw, and steamed alot in the beginning, then slowly went more raw.The rawer, the more cytokines... I canno take large amount of raw spinach or celery, or dark leafy veggies. I do great on raw green beans, carrots, green leaf lettuce , squash, beets, onions, cucmbers, and almost all others, not potoatos or tomatoes.(as they cause inflammatory responses) Just remeber anything in ecess will not be good for us, as we had too mch in excess to begin with . Well rounded is the way to go.nna

>From: CrystalRDH@... >Reply- > >Subject: Spirulina >Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:11:13 EDT > >, > >Dr. Kolb advises us to stay away from spirulina and other greens because >apparently it increases our cytokines. This will exacerbate your symptoms. >knows a lot about this. Hopefully she will see this and post some info about >it. > >Take Care, >Crystal The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

June 10, 2006

Hi folks:

Well ............... I wuz gonna say something about spirulina (not

complimentary) but I can see that, in the light of what has already

been said, it is redundant.

Rodney.

--- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...>

wrote:

>

> The article is from a site that sells spirulina and is designed to

promote its sale. Of course it sounds good.

>

> http://www.ncahf.org/articles/s-z/starlight.html

> Spirulina Spirulina is a form of blue-green algae (the substance

that floats on ponds) which is food for fish, and some people in

areas where other foods are scarce. Spirulina contains vitamins and

minerals, but they are not " concentrated, " as the pamphlet claims,

and there is nothing in spirulina that is not also present in the

foods humans eat. Dr. Victor Herbert, an internationally renowned

vitamin B12 researcher says of spirulina, says although it is

represented by promoters that spirulina contains large amounts of

vitamin B12, in fact, up to 80% of the B12 in spirulina is

in " analogue " form and is unusable by humans [5]. The 1988 Surgeon

General's Report on Nutrition and Health included spirulina as a diet

aid on its list of " fraudulent products and services can be very

costly yet are promoted as having nutritional or health benefits that

have not been substantiated in the scientific literature. " [6]

Starlight's spirulina product is a combination of herbs, which are

> not essential nutrients, an adrenal concentrate of dubious value,

a mineral, potassium, which is abundantly present in many foods, an

enzyme which is already found in every cell in the body and is not

recognized as an essential nutrient, and a super fish food. Many

extravagant claims are made about these substances and

their " synergistic blend. " The National Council Against Health Fraud

is concerned about reports of toxicity associated with the use of

spirulina supplements (see NCAHF Consumer Information Statement on

Blue-Green Algae).

>

> Also

>

> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/algae.html

>

> __________________________________________________

>

June 10, 2006

Hi Emma,

It is important to know you're getting it from someone reliable. You

might also want to look at chlorella. Nothing is really a miracle

product - though can still be very nutritionally helpful. Personally I

also like chlorella and have been trying a BG algae (AFA)for the past

few months. You might want to look at whole food supplements rather

than 'vitamins' though - just a suggestion. I have used chlorella

and/or spirulina off and on for years with nothing but good results.

BUT - research it well and be sure you aren't buying from someone who

can't guarantee a pure and non-contaminated product.

There are 29 pages and some 500 plus entries of Spirulina and related

algae studies at PubMed. Of course as always with scientific studies

you'll find some contradictions. But perusing the archives should give

you the answers you're looking for.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16248810 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

Nutritional and therapeutic potential of Spirulina.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16219988 & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

Nutrition rehabilitation of HIV-infected and HIV-negative

undernourished children utilizing spirulina.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16190625 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

C-phycocyanin, a very potent and novel platelet aggregation inhibitor

from Spirulina platensis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16176814 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

Blueberry- and spirulina-enriched diets enhance striatal dopamine

recovery and induce a rapid, transient microglia activation after

injury of the rat nigrostriatal dopamine system.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15884862 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

Antioxidant and antiproliferative activities of Spirulina and

Chlorella water extracts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15857205 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

Effects of a Spirulina-based dietary supplement on cytokine production

from allergic rhinitis patients.

Dietary supplementation with blueberries, spinach, or spirulina

reduces ischemic brain damage.

[Correction of selenium deficiency in patients with pneumonia]

[Microalgae Spirulina in human nutrition]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=11731916 & itool=iconabstr & query_hl=22 & itool=pubmed_docsum

Isolation of three high molecular weight polysaccharide preparations

with potent immunostimulatory activity from Spirulina platensis,

aphanizomenon flos-aquae and Chlorella pyrenoidosa.

And on and on - I just picked a few from the first 6 pages - hope this

was not too much to post.

Genesa

>

> I am just wondering whether anyone has tried spirulina before? I am

thinking of taking vitamins with spirulina.

>

> According to the article, it offers a lot of health benefits.

>

> http://www.spirulina.com/SPLNews95.html

>

> Emma

>

June 10, 2006

Hi Genesa:

Thanks for that post on spirulina, and for providing a number of

PubMed references in support of it.

To cover the issue adequately I am afraid this is going to be a

rather long post. But your post was a serious contribution, so it

deserves a full reply. Let me first say that everyone here is 'over

21' (most of us chronologically so, and those that are not, are over

21 'metaphorically' speaking). This means we each make our own

decisions about what evidence to take seriously, and what kinds of

studies should motivate us to change our eating habits. And not

everyone is persuaded by the same evidence. So the conclusions each

of us come to will differ depending on our varying outlooks.

For me the first issue is: " do the references you provided cause me

to decide to start taking some spirulina? " The answer, for me,

is " no " . My reasons follow. Naturally I recognize that it may turn

out later, in the light of further evidence, that I should have paid

more attention sooner!

With regard to your references, a significant factor for me is that

much of the content of the abstracts (I have not seen the full texts

of any of them) I do not understand very well. For example, much of

the biochemistry stuff says things like 'spirulina increased this'

or 'spirulina decreased that'. Unfortunately I often do not know how

to interpret such statements - whether the effect indicated is good

or bad. I am not likely to change my behaviour in a somewhat

unconventional direction in response to stuff I do not understand.

If others who understand this material better can see significant

advantages in the posted references I hope they will respond and

explain.

The kind of research to which I (we are all different, you may prefer

other types of study) am more likely to respond is the type which

goes something like the following:

" We took 200 animals and divided them into two groups of 100 each.

We gave the standard diet plus kale to one group, and the standard

diet plus spirulina to the other. We then exposed them all to germ

X. In the kale group 80% of them became infected and 30 died, while

only 20 of the spirulina group became infected and three died. We

repeated the experiment and got similar results. "

If I saw studies of that kind I would certainly sit up and pay

attention to spirulina. The reason is that it is the kind of study

which suggests that, whatever may appear to be the case with regard

to biochemistry, in the REAL WORLD with real LIVE ANIMALS this stuff

seems to work, at least in a particular batch of animals. But none

of the seven studies you referenced were of this kind.

The first study, 16248810, done in India, appears to claim spirulina

is a 'miracle cure' ......... claiming it to be a good treatment for

improving immune function, and against viruses, diabetes and cancer.

We see such claims all the time and they have never proven to be even

remotely accurate in the past. So until much better evidence is

presented I am skeptical.

The second study, 16219988, done in Burkina Faso, addresses the issue

of feeding spirulina to starving or HIV-infected kids. This is of

passing interest, but hopefully is not applicable to anyone here.

The third, 16190625, from Taiwan, found spirulina to reduce platelet

aggregation and therefore might be a suitable treatment for thrombo-

embolism. If I had that problem, or there was a family history of

it, or I had other reasons to believe I might suffer from it, I would

probably be roused to investigate further. But as far as I know

today, none of these apply.

The fourth, 16176814, from Sweden, tested the effects of anti-

oxidants on brain injury and neurodegeneration. It found both the

anti-oxidants used - spirulina and blueberry - to be equally

effective. The results appear to be applicable to all/most anti-

oxidants. I rely on cloves for that purpose. But it is good to know

that spirulina should be on our lists of anti-oxidants

The fifth, 15884862, also done in Taiwan, as in the Swedish study

looked at anti-oxidants in general, including spirulina, and tannins

in particular. Of course there are all sorts of sources of tannins,

including tea and red wine, so I do not believe I am deficient in

tannin intake.

The sixth, 15857205, done at UC , showed benefits for seasonal

allergy sufferers. If this was a problem I suffered from,

consistently every year, I would no doubt be tempted to experiment

with spirulina to see if it made a difference when the season came

around next time. But I don't.

The final one, 11731916, left me confused. It seems to indicate that

spirulina causes a substantial increase in TNF-alpha. Now is this

supposed to be good, or bad? My understanding is that TNF-alpha is a

biomarker for inflammation. Indeed, from fishing around a while ago

I think I determined that it is one biomarker that is regarded as

providing evidence of the benefits of CRON, in which TNF-alpha levels

are halved. [i forget what the units were but the number for ad lib

was ~150, and for established CRON ~75]. But I am getting out of my

depth biochemistry-wise here. So if I have misinterpreted this

information I am sure someone will quickly straighten me out!

So, for me the above studies provide, for the most part, rather

vague, non-empirical indications that spirulina may treat (if not

cure?) all manner of things. But they do not present a clear reason

to motivate me to start taking this stuff.

Will it help all or any of these things? Who knows. Most likely

not, imo. But it is good that you have raised our awareness of it

and I now have this more prominently displayed in the back of my mind

so that I will pay closer attention than I otherwise might have when

I see future studies of spirulina.

Against all the above consider the following: PMID 16495657 found

that spirulina caused a decrease in trabecular bone density - in rats

I believe. Not in humans for sure, and as far as I know not

confirmed yet either. But bone size very definitely is an issue for

slim people. How big an issue it is, is not settled as far as I can

see.

In addition, when I put 'spirulina' into nutrient tracking software

to find out what it has in it I notice three things it has lots of.

It has huge amounts of protein, copper and iron. It so happens my

intake (yours may be very different from mine) of all of these is

considerably above where I would like them to be. So I would like to

reduce my intake of these, not increase them.

Taking protein as an example. I would like to get my protein down to

below 15% of calories, perhaps lower ................. who knows

what soon-to-be published studies on protein restriction may show,

but one study posted here recently showed a sizeable longevity

benefit to protein restriction. I am not going to make much

progress in this by adding something to my diet of which 79% of the

calories are derived from protein (according to the data from my

nutrient tracking software).

As for vitamins, it contains a fair amount of some of the B

vitamins. But my regular diet is not deficient in any of these. In

the case of minerals spirulina provides a great deal of two minerals

I need a lot less of (copper and iron) and virtually none of the two

my base diet is deficient in - calcium and zinc. So it is not

a 'good fit' for me.

Now this does *not* mean that no one should take spirulina. For

those whose regular diet happens to have deficiencies in protein,

iron and copper then taking some of this stuff might fit in, at least

from a nutrient-balancing perspective, perfectly. So good to check

first, what you need more of, and what you need to try to reduce.

Having said this, if I were to see some empirical results, of the

general kind described above, from a serious source indicating

substantial benefit, I am certainly open to changing my mind on this.

Rodney.

__________________________________________________

--- In , " truthseeker741 " <genesa@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Emma,

>

> It is important to know you're getting it from someone reliable. You

> might also want to look at chlorella. Nothing is really a miracle

> product - though can still be very nutritionally helpful.

Personally I

> also like chlorella and have been trying a BG algae (AFA)for the

past

> few months. You might want to look at whole food supplements rather

> than 'vitamins' though - just a suggestion. I have used chlorella

> and/or spirulina off and on for years with nothing but good results.

> BUT - research it well and be sure you aren't buying from someone

who

> can't guarantee a pure and non-contaminated product.

>

> There are 29 pages and some 500 plus entries of Spirulina and

> you'll find some contradictions. But perusing the archives should

give

> you the answers you're looking for.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16248810 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

> Nutritional and therapeutic potential of Spirulina.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16219988 & query_hl=1 & ito

ol=pubmed_DocSum

> Nutrition rehabilitation of HIV-infected and HIV-negative

> undernourished children utilizing spirulina.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16190625 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

> C-phycocyanin, a very potent and novel platelet aggregation

inhibitor

> from Spirulina platensis.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16176814 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

> Blueberry- and spirulina-enriched diets enhance striatal dopamine

> recovery and induce a rapid, transient microglia activation after

> injury of the rat nigrostriatal dopamine system.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15884862 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

> Antioxidant and antiproliferative activities of Spirulina and

> Chlorella water extracts.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15857205 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=1 & itool=pubmed_DocSum

> Effects of a Spirulina-based dietary supplement on cytokine

production

> from allergic rhinitis patients.

>

> Dietary supplementation with blueberries, spinach, or spirulina

> reduces ischemic brain damage.

>

> [Correction of selenium deficiency in patients with pneumonia]

>

> [Microalgae Spirulina in human nutrition]

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11731916 & itool=iconabst

r & query_hl=22 & itool=pubmed_docsum

> Isolation of three high molecular weight polysaccharide preparations

> with potent immunostimulatory activity from Spirulina platensis,

> aphanizomenon flos-aquae and Chlorella pyrenoidosa.

>

> And on and on - I just picked a few from the first 6 pages - hope

this

> was not too much to post.

>

> Genesa

>

> --- In , Emma Fergusson <emkydd@>

wrote:

> >

> > I am just wondering whether anyone has tried spirulina before? I

am

> thinking of taking vitamins with spirulina.

> >

> > According to the article, it offers a lot of health benefits.

> >

> > http://www.spirulina.com/SPLNews95.html

> >

> > Emma

> >

>

June 10, 2006

I dont know if this will come through correctly or not but here is the table I referred to in my article comparing a serving of spirulina, to a serving of carrots, mango and banana Nutritional Comparison Per Serving: Algae, Banana, Mango, & Carrot Nutrient Unit SPITULINA Banana Mango Carrot Protein Gm 0.66 1.2 1.1 0.74 Carbohydrate Gm 0.17 26.7 35.2 7.3 Fat Gm 0.095 0.547 0.559 0.137 ESSENTIAL AA Arginine Mg 41 54 39 31 Histidine Mg 10 92 25 12 Isoleucine Mg 31 38 37 30 Leucine Mg 56 81 64 31 Lysine Mg 37 55 85 29 Methionine Mg 8 13 10 5 Phenylalanine Mg 27 43 35 23 Threonine Mg 35 39 39 27 Tryptophan Mg 8 14 17 8 Valine Mg 34 54 54 32 VITAMINS Pro Vit A RE 240 9.2 806 2025 Thiamine Ug 4.8 51 120 70 Riboflavin Ug 57.3 114 118 42 Pyridoxine Ug 11.1 659 277 106 Cobalamin Ug 8 0 0 0 Ascorbic Acid Mg 0.7 10.4 57.3 6.7 Niacin Mg 0.13 0.616 1.21 0.668 Folic Acid Ug 1 21.8 * 10.1 Pantohenic Acid Ug 6.8 296 331 142 Biotin Ug 0.3 4.56 * 2.16 Vitamin E IU 0.1 0.365 * 0.367 MINERALS Calcium Mg 12.7 6.84 20.7 19.4 Copper Mg 4.3 119 228 34 Flouride Ug 38 26 * 29 Iron Mg 0.37 0.35 0.269 0.36 Magnesium Mg 2.2 33 18.6 10.8 Manganese Ug 27.6 173 56 102 Phosphorus Mg 5.2 22 22.8 31.7 Potassium Ug 0.012 451 323 233 Selenium Ug 0.67 1 1 2 Sodium Mg 2.7 1.14 4.14 25.2 Zinc Ug 18.7 182 83 144 * Indicates Missing Data __________________________________________________

June 11, 2006

>

[...snip...]

> Our bodies primary need is for carbohydrates, (60-75% total kcal), and not

protein (10

-15% of total kcal). Spirulina is only 17% CHO, providing a .17 gms/serving.

Not very

significant. A one gram serving of algae provides <4 kcals total. A 65 kg man

engaged in

moderate activity would burn that up in ~1½ minutes. So, spirulina provides

very little as

a true energy source. Per serving, bananas provide 27 gms CHO, mango 35 gms and

carrot 7 gms. For the fruit, that's over 150x the amount in spirulina.

>

[...snip...]

For someone on CRON, couldn't this could be seen as a negative?

CRONies are generally aiming for greater nutrient density and

so would prefer foods with high nutrient to calorie ratios.

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

June 11, 2006

Not to disagree, when I compare spirulina with soy protein isolate, for content, calories and price - not a practical solution, AFA aminos are concerned.

"The conclusion is that even if this cyanobacterium has been one of the most extensively studied from the chemical, pharmacological and toxicological points of view, it is still necessary to expand the research in order to have more consistent data for its possible use in human beings. PMID: 12448336 "

That's not been improved since 2002.

AND I wonder about the low suggested dosage.

Too much Vit K or Iodine, perhaps?

Regards.

[ ] Re: Spirulina

For someone on CRON, couldn't this could be seen as a negative?CRONies are generally aiming for greater nutrient density andso would prefer foods with high nutrient to calorie ratios.-www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

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