Hi Everybody

[Guest guest]

If you don't have insurance, Fitzpatrick in Eugene only charges 150

dollars , I have her number, she is a naturopath.

and I can relate to your addiction to the brown stuff...

Hi everybody

Hi all, I'm slowly getting back online again. Since I was last here

(with vertigo, migraines, perimenopause, depression) I've gotten a lot

better and have even received a specific request for a specific job I

asked the Lord for.. Eugene, Oregon has pretty slim pickins in regards

to my previously chosen field of electronics so I'm still amazed this

particular job was even in the area, much less the specifics of what I

asked for. Still taking care of the food ministry too and that is

going well too.

I've gained some 10 pounds since going back to work 2 months ago,

mainly because I'm grabbing whatever is handy rather than thinking and

preparing ahead of time...and truth be told..CHOCOLATE..yes, that

almighty dark sweetness has overcome me again. I am in desperate need

of a new fill, it's been months since I've seen Dr. Neal but have an

appointment the first available day I can get off work with pay. So

I'm back for encouragement, reminders to do what I KNOW to do;-) and

just being around other bandsters again.

Well I'm off to work, glad to be back here;-)

Kem in Eugene

- 45 pounds

Dr. Neal 8.6.04

<º)))><

[Guest guest]

Sure glad you're back, Kem - we missed you! Sandy R

>

> Hi all, I'm slowly getting back online again. Since I was last

here

> (with vertigo, migraines, perimenopause, depression) I've gotten a

lot

> better and have even received a specific request for a specific job

I

> asked the Lord for.. Eugene, Oregon has pretty slim pickins in

regards

> to my previously chosen field of electronics so I'm still amazed

this

> particular job was even in the area, much less the specifics of

what I

> asked for. Still taking care of the food ministry too and that is

> going well too.

>

> I've gained some 10 pounds since going back to work 2 months ago,

> mainly because I'm grabbing whatever is handy rather than thinking

and

> preparing ahead of time...and truth be told..CHOCOLATE..yes, that

> almighty dark sweetness has overcome me again. I am in desperate

need

> of a new fill, it's been months since I've seen Dr. Neal but have

an

> appointment the first available day I can get off work with pay.

So

> I'm back for encouragement, reminders to do what I KNOW to do;-)

and

> just being around other bandsters again.

>

> Well I'm off to work, glad to be back here;-)

>

>

> Kem in Eugene

> - 45 pounds

> Dr. Neal 8.6.04

> <º)))><

>

>

[Guest guest]

Congrats on getting a date!! And thanks, I am glad I have helped. Here's to 14 more days to becoming a loser!

M

280/174/155 -106lbs gone for good!

Lapband 3/1/05

http://www.tracyslapband.com

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of VirginiaSent: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:29 PM Subject: Hi Everybody

I am scheduled!!!! March 13th! I am so excited! I want to especially thank for her encourgement and success! And the other bandsters too........Liz, Penny, Tammy, Kelli.........you have all been such an inspiration! Wish me luck!!Virginia Herrell

[Guest guest]

You are so welcome! I will wish you luck even though you won't need

it, they are so great in Mexicali!

Tammy A.

251/239/150

Banded 2/16/06

>

>

> I am scheduled!!!! March 13th! I am so excited! I want to

> especially thank for her encourgement and success! And the

> other bandsters too........Liz, Penny, Tammy, Kelli.........you have

> all been such an inspiration!

> Wish me luck!!

> Virginia Herrell

>

[Guest guest]

CONGRATS Virginia!!!

Welcome to the beginning of an exciting journey!

Penny

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/06 1:26:16 PM, meling333@... writes:

I'm being tested for this as I been sick for a year now. and labs showed low potassium and low salt. I was a mess. I started dehydrating drinking unreal amounts of water sweating weak and upset stomach. I am swollen like a pond of water. My blood pressure has been high with a heart beat over 100 if I am not on atenolol. I also have a adenoma in my left adrenal found in Feb 06. I was on hydrocortsone since october 05 due to hyperpigmentation and totaly ill in general. Cortisol has been normal in am and passed the stem test and acth has never been above 14. Why am I so tanned. hmmmmmm

I quit hydrocortsone for 7 weeks which on the 6 week I got real ill and then my potassium went below range as salt was on the low side of the range as well. I went back on hydrocortisone as I know it stops the missery. Probably surpressing aldosterone production? MY potassium came back up to 4.4 from 3.4. I have tingling and numb spots here and there.I should have some answers this week I hope. This

is such a nice group.

Could someone post symptoms of this illness, is AVS a common practise to have done? ita

Where are you. You need someone who knows what they are doing. Why were you on hydrocortisone.? Did you K get better? Do they think you have GRA?

Send us all the numbers you have and what you are taking.

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

You font is very small when I read it. Any reason why?

In a message dated 6/17/06 1:26:16 PM, meling333@... writes:

I'm being tested for this as I been sick for a year now. and labs showed low potassium and low salt. I was a mess. I started dehydrating drinking unreal amounts of water sweating weak and upset stomach. I am swollen like a pond of water. My blood pressure has been high with a heart beat over 100 if I am not on atenolol. I also have a adenoma in my left adrenal found in Feb 06. I was on hydrocortsone since october 05 due to hyperpigmentation and totaly ill in general. Cortisol has been normal in am and passed the stem test and acth has never been above 14. Why am I so tanned. hmmmmmm

I quit hydrocortsone for 7 weeks which on the 6 week I got real ill and then my potassium went below range as salt was on the low side of the range as well. I went back on hydrocortisone as I know it stops the missery. Probably surpressing aldosterone production? MY potassium came back up to 4.4 from 3.4. I have tingling and numb spots here and there.I should have some answers this week I hope. This

is such a nice group.

Could someone post symptoms of this illness, is AVS a common practise to have done? ita

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/06 12:30:50 PM, meling333@... writes:

I was on hydrocortsone as I had hyperpigmentated gums, arms and a general tan in general primary care put me on it and referred me to a Endo.

Bad judgement without testing.

What did the endo think?

I am in sacramento ca. I am also hyperthyroid. I take synthroid 25mcg and without the hc it makes me sick. Through testing my acth has never been higher than 14 I passed the stem test.

Then the dr. found a adenoma.

I was off hydrocortsone for 7 weeks in which my dr. was switched due to my insurance. And the other dr. didnt do much. I got deathly ill with low potassium and started hydrocortsone again and yes my potassium is now back up to 4.4. I think I am surpressing aldosterone excess with the hydrocortsone. I did some labs at the 30 days off hydrocortsone.

Renin 0.3

supine 0.2–1.6

upright 0.5–4.0

aldosterone 12.7

upright 4.0–31.0

supine 16.0 or less

unspecified 31.0

I was sitting up for some of these and then I was laying down as the lab teks kept saying i was dehydrated and had to keep stabbing me as my veins would swell up.

You have primary aldosteronism early stage it would appear. See my article.

You should be tried on Spironolactone. Talke to your Endo.

If he has not seem over 20 cases of PA ask to be sent to someone who has.

acth 11 6–58

normtanephrine 0.37 .00–0.89

metanephrine 0.24 .00–0.49

cortisol am 16.00

Dont understand why the font is small . ita

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

go to our files it is the evolution of PA.

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/06 2:27:19 PM, meling333@... writes:

Hi Doc

Yes I would agree,bad judgement I have been to 5 Endos since may of 05. Fighting fiercely with all of them but 1 to save my life. The Endo in 5/05 said that my FT4 being .28 was a lab error got rid of her. The next one said a TSH of 7.0 or 8.0 is ok (it is Not) and I should not be on hydrocortsone, he was not impressed but it was not my fault.He scared me off and. I have been to ER a year ago with low potassium 3.4 as thyroid meds were making it worse and I had high blood pressure, pulse over a 100 and swelling since feb 04 it happened over night which I thought was odd.ER told me to eat banannas.

Did he think you were a monkey or what?;-)

In Feb the dr. ordered a ct of my adrenals adenoma found. I quit hydrocortsone for 7 weeks getting sicker and seeing a Endo every month, calling on the phone and getting worse. Till I went back on as no one had no answers for me. Other than I dont have s. And ER did nothing a year ago. I have stayed hopeful threw most of this as I knew hydrocortsone stopped some of the misery but didnt know why. I am only taking 5mg of HC as I know it is not the answer but the only tool I was given so far. I see the only Endo I ever liked wednesday. She is now certified for my insurance. Thank god.

Does hyperpigmentation accompany PA is some cases>? ita

Not that I have ever heard of. Cushing's yes. PA no.

> Bad judgement without testing.

> What did the endo think?>

> You have primary aldosteronism early stage it would appear. See my article.

> You should be tried on Spironolactone. Talk to your Endo.

> If he has not seen over 20 cases of PA ask to be sent to someone who has.

> May your pressure be low!

> C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

I was on hydrocortsone as I had hyperpigmentated gums, arms and a general tan in

general primary care put me on it and referred me to a Endo. I am in sacramento

ca. I am also hyperthyroid. I take synthroid 25mcg and without the hc it makes

me sick. Through testing my acth has never been higher than 14 I passed the stem

test.

Then the dr. found a adenoma.

I was off hydrocortsone for 7 weeks in which my dr. was switched due to my

insurance. And the other dr. didnt do much. I got deathly ill with low potassium

and started hydrocortsone again and yes my potassium is now back up to 4.4. I

think I am surpressing aldosterone excess with the hydrocortsone. I did some

labs at the 30 days off hydrocortsone.

Renin 0.3

supine 0.2–1.6

upright 0.5–4.0

aldosterone 12.7

upright 4.0–31.0

supine 16.0 or less

unspecified 31.0

I was sitting up for some of these and then I was laying down as the lab teks

kept saying i was dehydrated and had to keep stabbing me as my veins would swell

up.

acth 11 6–58

normtanephrine 0.37 .00–0.89

metanephrine 0.24 .00–0.49

cortisol am 16.00

Dont understand why the font is small . ita

[Guest guest]

Hi Doc

Yes I would agree,bad judgement I have been to 5 Endos since may of 05. Fighting

fiercely with all of them but 1 to save my life. The Endo in 5/05 said that my

FT4 being .28 was a lab error got rid of her. The next one said a TSH of 7.0 or

8.0 is ok (it is Not) and I should not be on hydrocortsone, he was not impressed

but it was not my fault.He scared me off and. I have been to ER a year ago with

low potassium 3.4 as thyroid meds were making it worse and I had high blood

pressure, pulse over a 100 and swelling since feb 04 it happened over night

which I thought was odd.ER told me to eat banannas. In Feb the dr. ordered a ct

of my adrenals adenoma found. I quit hydrocortsone for 7 weeks getting sicker

and seeing a Endo every month, calling on the phone and getting worse. Till I

went back on as no one had no answers for me. Other than I dont have s.

And ER did nothing a year ago. I have stayed hopeful threw most of this as I

knew hydrocortsone stopped some of the misery but didnt know why. I am only

taking 5mg of HC as I know it is not the answer but the only tool I was given so

far. I see the only Endo I ever liked wednesday. She is now certified for my

insurance. Thank god. Does hyperpigmentation accompany PA is some cases>?

ita

> Bad judgement without testing.

> What did the endo think?>

> You have primary aldosteronism early stage it would appear. See my article.

> You should be tried on Spironolactone. Talk to your Endo.

> If he has not seen over 20 cases of PA ask to be sent to someone who has.

> May your pressure be low!

> C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

[Guest guest]

Where is this article to read I keep hearing about. Point me in the right

direction. ita

[Guest guest]

Hi Doc

Is there any thing that will help in the meantime? I am taking 25mg–50mg

atenolol due to rapid heart beat and High blood pressure since 04. I was on

100mg when I was off HC. Your would think some one would have put 2 and 2

together. Im so tired of being swollen and have put on 40lbs. Seems weight gain

is one of the symtpoms with this. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

ita

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/06 6:08:57 PM, meling333@... writes:

Hi Doc

Is there any thing that will help in the meantime? I am taking 25mg–50mg atenolol due to rapid heart beat and High blood pressure since 04. I was on 100mg when I was off HC. Your would think some one would have put 2 and 2 together. Im so tired of being swollen and have put on 40lbs. Seems weight gain is one of the symtpoms with this. Thank you for your time and knowledge. ita

The key is to DASH and work with your Dr. Have you been on Spiro?

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

Hi Doc

No I have never been on sprio.

I see the other Endo wednesday. Been reading your article it's very very good.

the last dr. was too busy telling me what I dont have (s) and never even

looked at my ccp which showed low K+. I probably got more than one thing going

on here since I turn so tanned off hydrocortsone and probably have adrenal

insufficency too. In 02 I did 44 weeks of interferon alpha and did get cured of

HCV.

But been a wreck since 04 with high blood pressure,and hypothyroid. Its been a

struggle getting treated for my thyroid as interferon did it in. I'm just laying

low and staying cool. I get hot real easy. Well its great your here. The best

way to learn about illness is to be on the net.

ita

>> In a message dated 6/18/06 6:08:57 PM, meling333@... writes:

> > > Hi Doc

> > Is there any thing that will help in the meantime? I am taking 25mg†" 50mg

> > atenolol due to rapid heart beat and High blood pressure since 04. I was on

> > 100mg when I was off HC. Your would think some one would have put 2 and 2

> > together. Im so tired of being swollen and have put on 40lbs. Seems weight

gain is

> > one of the symtpoms with this. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

ita

> >

>

> The key is to DASH and work with your Dr. Have you been on Spiro?

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Doc

No I have never been on sprio.

I see the other Endo wednesday. Been reading your article it's very very good.

the last dr. was too busy telling me what I dont have (s) and never even

looked at my ccp which showed low K+. I probably got more than one thing going

on here since I turn so tanned off hydrocortsone and probably have adrenal

insufficency too. In 02 I did 44 weeks of interferon alpha and did get cured of

HCV.

But been a wreck since 04 with high blood pressure,and hypothyroid. Its been a

struggle getting treated for my thyroid as interferon did it in. I'm just laying

low and staying cool. I get hot real easy. Well its great your here. The best

way to learn about illness is to be on the net.

ita

>> In a message dated 6/18/06 6:08:57 PM, meling333@... writes:

> > > Hi Doc

> > Is there any thing that will help in the meantime? I am taking 25mg†" 50mg

> > atenolol due to rapid heart beat and High blood pressure since 04. I was on

> > 100mg when I was off HC. Your would think some one would have put 2 and 2

> > together. Im so tired of being swollen and have put on 40lbs. Seems weight

gain is

> > one of the symtpoms with this. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

ita

> >

>

> The key is to DASH and work with your Dr. Have you been on Spiro?

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there Pepsi

I am Toni. I guess I would have been asked to leave that group too, I have not had a heart attack either. ("thank the Lord") I am 51 years old and had a stent put in last June and then a defibrillator implanted in December. It's also a pacemaker.

You are welcome to this group by me and I am sure all the others. That was terrible that you felt you had to leave that group. Some people just don't think.

Again, Welcome and you can email me anytime, I always try to be there for someone because I know how people in our situations feel.

Sincerely,

Toni

[Guest guest]

Welcome Pepsi -- You definitely belong here! You have found your new family. Sounds like you can give us lots of wisdom! I have familial cardiomyopathy and am on my 3rd ICD first one in 1999 when I was 41! I am a wife and Mom of three in CA

Keep us posted.

~guin

Hi everybody

I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

[Guest guest]

of course you fit in to the group ! where here to help and bethere for everyone ! i found the same thing as you when i first got my icd at 13 i was told i was to young to be in the groups but they exepted me here and that was almost 10 yesars ago i have hyper and delated cardiomyopathy along with other heart and health issuse your welcome here ! it dont matter what the reason where all here for similor reasons and we all support each other !pepsi15687 <pepsi15687@...> wrote: I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is

still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

[Guest guest]

of course you fit in to the group ! where here to help and bethere for everyone ! i found the same thing as you when i first got my icd at 13 i was told i was to young to be in the groups but they exepted me here and that was almost 10 yesars ago i have hyper and delated cardiomyopathy along with other heart and health issuse your welcome here ! it dont matter what the reason where all here for similor reasons and we all support each other !pepsi15687 <pepsi15687@...> wrote: I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is

still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

[Guest guest]

of course you fit in to the group ! where here to help and bethere for everyone ! i found the same thing as you when i first got my icd at 13 i was told i was to young to be in the groups but they exepted me here and that was almost 10 yesars ago i have hyper and delated cardiomyopathy along with other heart and health issuse your welcome here ! it dont matter what the reason where all here for similor reasons and we all support each other !pepsi15687 <pepsi15687@...> wrote: I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is

still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

[Guest guest]

I would like to welcome you to the group personally. I dont spend much time here but i do read alot of what others have to say. Everyone here is very nice and caring so please feel at home . Was wondering if you are from Iowa ? I knew a gal back there with that same name,, pepsi lol. Anyway i had 8 heart attacks in teh past 31/2 years and still on my first ICD, a St. Jude Medical ICD, so far it has preformed very well, i have two episodes and after that the EP did some adjustments and everything is fine now, have had it in since 2003. Again welcome to the group and if you ever have any questions please feel free to ask , this group is very informative and caring. Sincerely in Az. pepsi15687 <pepsi15687@...> wrote: I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little

larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Pepsi. Welcome to the Zaplist. Compared to some of us, you're an

old vet at living with an ICd. You definitely fit in with this group,

which is very inclusive, supportive, and informative. Besides that,

you've got comedians like Bill from California that keep our spirits

up.

Mike

On Jun 25, 2006, at 1:11 PM, pepsi15687 wrote:

> I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine

> is still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great

> there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups

> before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if

> you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one

> meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a

> heart attack. (I left)

> I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have

> been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to

> your group ? I am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a

> little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and

> rounded corners.

> I have never talked with any other Icd patients before.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Please visit the Zapper homepage at

> http://www.ZapLife.org

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pepsi. Of course you belong here. There are so many interesting people who share their stories here. I find this a great support system. Even though I don't post much you can get so much information. I would like to welcome you. Like you, I was told to join the mended hearts group. However, they were mostly old folks that had heart attacks and I would of been the youngest person there, so I choose not to do it. I love this group!Pepsi15687 <Pepsi15687@...> wrote: I have been an ICD patient since 1991, Curently on my fourth ICD. Mine is still left of my belly button. Just want to say I think it`s great there are groups like this one. I have never talked with any groups before. Was no support groups other than mended hearts, nice group if you want to talk about bypass surgery or heart attack`s. I went to one meeting an older man said, I did not belong because I didn`t have a heart attack. (I left)I have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I have had four Icd`s. I have been shocked a few times from my units 35 and 40 jewls. Do I fit in to your group ? I

am 43 yrs old now, My first ICD was square and just a little larger than a deck of cards. I sure like the new smaller and rounded corners.I have never talked with any other Icd patients before. Vee

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