Blood tests

[Guest guest]

Hi joni, me and my mum were saying the other day he needs to have

apprentices to carry on his work when he can no longer, he must be in

his 70's, bless him, he so passionate about his work can't see him

retiring willingly lol. X

>

> From: Sheila <sheilaturner@...>

> Subject: RE: Re: blood tests

> thyroid treatment

> Date: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008, 9:55 AM

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> Hi Joni

> Dr Peatfield has been staying with me the past week whilst he did

his Yorkshire and Lancashire clinics, and only went home yesterday.

However, Jo, his right hand woman, has been very ill with some sort

of bug this past week and not been at her desk and neither is she

likely to be for the coming week either. He has a weeks emails, faxes

and telephone messages to wade through, and he started that last

night, so it might be a while to get back to you. However, if you

have left a telephone message giving your name, address and telephone

number with a request that you need a telephone consultation, do be

assured that he will get back to you. He is just too popular because

there are so few doctors around that have the capability of actually

making their patients better. Emailing him is about the worst thing

you can do, as it could be a couple of weeks before he actually gets

to look at them.

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Just one more thing , Iam tring to make a phone appt with the

> elusive Dr P. ( I know he must be swamped ! ) I have left several

> messages but his secretary never gets back to me. Today I have just

> sent my six week diary back, so maybe they will contact me then.

> Would I be better off e. mailing for an appt ?

>

>

>

> _

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lyn,

The most important thing to stress is that your TSH will

probably be suppressed below the range, which is usually 0.5 to 5.5.

Mine has been >0.01 for years. This will probably cause your GP to want

to drastically reduce your dose- if you are well, argue your corner.

Your FT3 and FT4 should be in the top quarter of the range, but the FT4

may be a bit lower as Armour has a higher ratio of T3 to T4 than a

healthy human would produce, but normal for a pig. Antibodies should be

> the lower end of the range.

Subject: Blood Tests

I have recently returned to the UK and am trying to persuade my new

doctor to prescribe armour. I have just had some blood taken to find

out my current levels. The tests are for TSH, Free T4 and Free T3 and

thyroid antibodies. What ranges can I expect my results to be in? I

currently take 2 and a half grains of armour.

I'd appreciate any advice/comments

Thanks Lyn

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

Since I've come to research thyroid issues over the last year, the one

thing I have learned above all else, is that the blood tests and the

interpretation given to them by GP's is suspect.

I to have hypo thyroid symptoms, have a long thyroid history, partially

removed 21 years ago for goitre, another goitre come up over the last

year or so, but because my blood tests are 'normal' range still, no

action from Dr's. Indeed, my GP actually laughed at my suggestion it

could be causing my symptoms last night.

It's a very common story don't worry, it's not you.

What's your history, how long have you felt unwell. I'm sorry to hear

you're depressed too. I have been more impacted by anxiety, which is

not too much fun either.

The thing about blood tests is that we are all individual and can be

affected at any point within the ranges. The problem arises because UK

medicine will only acknowlege a particular measure.

The good and knowledgeable folk here will have lots of info to share

with you, that will help decide your next steps. I'm sure it will be

suggested that your tsh is a little high, there is a line of thinking

that to feel well tsh should be around 1. But, you will need to post

your reference ranges. Most Dr's won't treat for hypothyroidism until

tsh is between 5 and 10.

Have you read the files on tpa main web page? Hypothyroidism and

associated conditions might be a good start, will give you a wider

picture to consider. For me, Adrenals were also an issue.

Reading has helped me understand my symptoms more.

Take care for now, you're certainly not alone.

x

>

> Hi I have symptoms of hypothyroidism but my bolld tests show TSH 3,

and

> T4 (I think) 15.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

A TSH of 3.0 is higher than normal as over 90% of healthy folk

have a TSH of around 1.0, but sadly not above the NHS threshold- which

is usually 5.0. As usual FT3 wasn't done which would show clearer what

is going on as the T4 has to convert to T3 which is the active hormone ,

but a FT4 of 15 isn't that good either. Ask doc for thyroid antibody

test as this may show you on the slippery slope of thyroid failure.

Check the files area for the other mimics of thyroid disease such as

candida, amalgams ETC that can prevent the thyroid hormones from working

properly.

Subject: blood tests

Hi I have symptoms of hypothyroidism but my bolld tests show TSH 3, and

T4 (I think) 15.

I am very very tired, cold (usually below 36 celsius), depressed and

ache. I am not anaemic

Can thie tests be correct?

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

thanks for your advice - will check it out. My GP says I'm depressed - I feel flat like I exist not live and my pulse rate is mad - last july it was 67 now its 93 upwards

I am also out of breath ad feel like no air gets in my lungs, very very cold, my temp in bed this morning was 35.9

thanks for your email, I was beginning to feel a fraud

.....tread softly, for you tread on my dreams

From: <marylinda@...>Subject: Re: blood teststhyroid treatment Date: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 9:47 PM

Hi Vicky,Since I've come to research thyroid issues over the last year, the one thing I have learned above all else, is that the blood tests and the interpretation given to them by GP's is suspect.I to have hypo thyroid symptoms, have a long thyroid history, partially removed 21 years ago for goitre, another goitre come up over the last year or so, but because my blood tests are 'normal' range still, no action from Dr's. Indeed, my GP actually laughed at my suggestion it could be causing my symptoms last night. It's a very common story don't worry, it's not you.What's your history, how long have you felt unwell. I'm sorry to hear you're depressed too. I have been more impacted by anxiety, which is not too much fun either.The thing about blood tests is that we are all individual and can be affected at any point within the ranges. The problem arises because UK medicine will only acknowlege a

particular measure. The good and knowledgeable folk here will have lots of info to share with you, that will help decide your next steps. I'm sure it will be suggested that your tsh is a little high, there is a line of thinking that to feel well tsh should be around 1. But, you will need to post your reference ranges. Most Dr's won't treat for hypothyroidism until tsh is between 5 and 10.Have you read the files on tpa main web page? Hypothyroidism and associated conditions might be a good start, will give you a wider picture to consider. For me, Adrenals were also an issue.Reading has helped me understand my symptoms more.Take care for now, you're certainly not alone.x>> Hi I have symptoms of hypothyroidism but my bolld tests show TSH 3, and > T4 (I think) 15.>

[Guest guest]

B12 and ferritin both look a bit low to me but others will say more I am sure.

Mo

[Guest guest]

I completely understand, after my GP had finished laughing at my

suggestion of thryoid being at the root of my health problems the other

night, she then asked me to complete a depression questionnaire, in her

words, 'just incase we are missing something!'

You will read this scenario over and over again for folk with

undiagnosed thyroid issues, GP's think it's in our heads. Just to add,

I don't have any history of depression, I'm 53 this month, hardly ever

bothered the Dr at all previously.

I have come to understand, through being lucky enough to be part of

this and othe effective communities, this is the Dr's lack of

knowledge, not mine.

Don't lose faith Vicky, nobody can steal your dreams.

x

>

> thanks for your advice - will check it out.  My GP says I'm

depressed

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I think you replied to my post instead of Marie's, your just overworked

lol

Thanks

Debbie

>

> Hi Marie

>

> I have just received your telephone message and I am not sure whether

it is your OE that is giving you email problems, so I am sending this

both privately and posting on the group in case you are reading the

messages there.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

Can’t comment on most of

that, but the TSH could be lower and the T4 higher as it is near the bottom of

the range, pity no antibodies or T3 done- why do they miss the important stuff.

Subject:

Blood tests

Hi everyone,

I was asked to show you the test results, these are them, s 0.59

10^9/1 (0.2-0.8)

Thyroid function test (without taking Thyroxine)

Serum free T4

level

13.4

pmol/L

(9.0-19.0) (last test was 20.01)

Serum TSH

level

2.041mU/L

(0.4-4.5) (last test was 0.38)

Serum total T3

level 1.7

nmol/L

(0.9-2.5) (1st time tested)

No Anti-Thyroid antibody test

done

2.6 ug/L

(2.2>)

Again I thank you for checking these for me.

Debbie x

[Guest guest]

Hello Debbie,

***My cholesterol is high but was expecting that as it always is high since taking thyroxine, I stopped taking statin.My TSH & T4 have altered from my last test somewhat, but that could be due to not taking my thyroxine before test was done ...

I'm no wizz kid when it comes to interpreting lab results, but I've learned a bit over the years... Looking at your results, what stands out to me is your high Cholesterol - but you know that already. You probably also know that high Chol is one of the clinical indicators for Hypothyroidism.

Your comments on the thyroid results confuse me.... are you taking thyroid medication at present or not? I can't work out what your thyroid status is - so please forgive my asking...

Have you been diagnosed hypothyroid ?

Are you - or have you previously been - on thyroid medication? ( I assume you are, because you comment above that you take thyroxine, but then you remark on the blood results that you don't....)

If stopped - why?

As it stands, your 'last' thyroid test looked perfectly fine to me - unlike your 'current' one, which appears too have lowish FT4, a highish TSH and a slightly low looking T3....- but then you say that was done "without taking thyroxine" - and I am confused what you meant by that...

In any case, I would suggest to ask your doctor to test your autoantibodies (TgAA and TPO), as positive autoantibodies can produce very erroneous and confusing thyroid results.

Other than the above - it seems to me that your Ferritin is much too low (which can also mimic hypothyroid symptoms) and your B12 should ideally be higher (in the upper part of the norm range)

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes I take Thyroxine & have done for 13 years, I paused taking them for

a few days for the blood tests, then took them again when test was

done.

I really don't know which I am as I have symptoms of both Hyper & Hypo,

don't ever remember any Dr telling me which I was & my GP tells me

there is nothing wrong with my Thyroid I'm just depressed.

I was given Thyroxine to take after having Thyroid cancer 13 years ago.

All that has ever happened since then is yearly blood tests & my health

deteriorating, mainly mentally lol, but I have learnt to keep my chin

up because no one ever wants to listen anyway, especially Dr's as we

all know.

I wished I had found this site years back then maybe I wouldn't have

believed I was going insane as I had thought. But hay! it's life's

path & I'm here now

Debbie x

[Guest guest]

Hi again Debbie,

Thanks for the explanation.... it's becoming clearer now

***Thyroid function test (without taking Thyroxine)Serum free T4 level 13.4 pmol/L (9.0-19.0) (last test was 20.01)Serum TSH level 2.041mU/L (0.4-4.5) (last test was 0.38)Serum total T3 level 1.7 nmol/L (0.9-2.5) (1st time tested)No Anti-Thyroid antibody test done

****I really don't know which I am as I have symptoms of both Hyper & Hypo,don't ever remember any Dr telling me which I was & my GP tells methere is nothing wrong with my Thyroid I'm just depressed.

So would I be, if nobody had told me what's going on !!! This really is disgraceful ....

Well, I'm no doctor, but looking at your results above, I do not share your GP's opinion. Something doesn't add up with those latest thyroid results in my view.... I'll try to explain what I mean....

Your previous test (results displayed on the right hand side in brackets) were established whilst you were regularly taking thyroxine. I don't know which dosage you were taking, but given your 13 year long medication and lack of information from your doctors, I assume that you had taken thyroxine on the day of the blood draw. This thyroid result shows that your TSH was (at least to my mind) optimal, just about touching the lower norm range - your FT4 was a fraction high with 20.01, but if you had not taken your medication 24 hours before the blood draw (as is recommended), my guess is that the reading might have been just inside the norm range.

So on the surface those results look near perfect.... However, because the FT3 had not been measured, we don't know if all this nice FT4 has just been going round and round in your bloodstream, or if it actually had been converted into T3 and put to good use in the cells. Going by your comment that your health is deteriorating, I feel there is a big questionmark over your T3/FT3 conversion and how much of it is reaching the cells.

Now - your latest test result shows something odd.... namely, your TSH has been rising. Given the fact that you have been taking thyroxine for 13 years, had a perfectly nice low TSH at your previous blood test, I can't see why on earth your TSH should now rise. Sure, you had stopped taking thyroxine for a few days - but for a TSH to change significantly takes at least 4-6 weeks, not a few days.

In addition, your FT4 is relatively low, even taking into account that you had stopped the thyroxine for a few days. T4 has a half life of about 7 days, which means that after 7 days there would still be half of the previous T4 in your system, and unless you had stopped your medication for a full week, your FT4 reading looks curiously low for someone with a previously high FT4 reading.

Strangely, by contrast, your T3 looks very "normal"..... and to my mind the whole panel does not add up - unless you have positive autoantibodies, which can falsify results, and that could explain this situation, or/and perhaps your pituitary gland doesn't work properly.

However, having said all that... I have no knowledge if thyroid results might be looked at differently after someone has been treated for thyroid cancer, and that may give another view point. I can't imagine it though, but I have no experience of that.

As I said, I am not a doctor, so the above is only my opinion and what comes to my mind when I look at those results. If it were me, I would press my GP for getting TPO and TgAB (those are thyroid autoantibodies) tested.

I hope this hasn't muddied the waters too much,

best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

wow lol so much to take into consideration, I really appreciate you

taking time to tell me all this, I understand your view is from the

experience you've gained, which I might add is far more worthy than

the majority of Dr's.

My Dr has not bothered to ask me to see him since having these test

done (6/02/09) however I contacted Dr H (he's on the Dr's list) here

in Belfast & he asked me to tell my Dr to refer me to him, I called

the surgery yesterday & they confirm that my Dr has done so, I'm now

waiting for an appointment to come through.

You were correct in that I had always taken my Thyroxine on all my

tests apart from the latest one because I didn't know that I

shouldn't. This time I paused them for 4 days, I was going to do it

for longer but didn't know what effect it would have on me. I take

150mcg daily.

I am seeing the nurse at the surgery on Monday & she has been very

helpful, I will ask her to do the auto-antibodies & let you know what

it is when I get the results back.

I suffer from dizzy spells, anxiety, depression, Tinnitus all of

which are being treated as separate issues.

I am concerned about my cholesterol because of the effect they say it

has on a persons health, but I refuse to take the statin due to the

side effects which I was not aware of at the time & I have had many

outbursts of rage & anger which was never part of my personality

before taking them, I never made the connection that it could be my

medication at the time, I wished I had because that's what put me

over the edge, due to the rages I had begun to shout at people in the

street for no reason, it was then I put myself into therapy because I

was so scared I was crossing the line of insanity, since I've stopped

I haven't even got irritable. Oh god it's frightening. I'm going to

leave it at this point cos I cant hold back my tears from thinking

back over time.

thank you so much, Debbie x

[Guest guest]

You're very welcome, Debbie. - Just wanted to add.... 4 days without thyroxine is a long time for someone who is used to 150 mcg. The usual recommendation (as far as I know) is 24 to 48 hours. In future, I think it suffices to either just not take your medication on the morning of the blood draw (but to take it immediately after the blood draw), which would give you 24 hours, or to leave it off for two mornings.... to my mind any longer will just lead to an unnecessary return of hypothyroid symptoms and might throw you off kilter.

I am pleased that you can now look forward to your referral. Let's hope that this doctor is a bit more clued up on thyroid. Dizzy spells, anxiety, tinnitus and high cholesterol are ALL symptoms of Hypothyroidism (although dizzy spells can also indicate that you've gone a bit hyper). I suffer from tinnitus too as is my husband, it's very annoying... I had asked Sheila what to do about it, and her advice was to see if there were a zinc deficiency... here is what she said:

Meanwhile, for his tinnitus, he might try Solgar B12 1000 mgs which you can buy at your health food store, and take these with Zinc. Often tinnitus can be caused through low zinc levels. To find out if he actually does need zinc, if he pops a tablet of zinc in his mouth and it tastes pretty nasty and coppery, he doesn't need it. However, if it tastes of chalk and hardly anything else, this is a sign he is short of it.

You were right to refuse the statins, but there is something natural you can take to lower your high chol .... Q10 and Niacin. Again, the following was Sheila's advice for my husband:

The best way to lower his cholesterol naturally is to take high doses of Niacin (Vitamin B3) 300 mgs (one daily) and high dose CoEnzyme Q10, again about 300 mgs, one tablet daily. The Niacin can cause flushing of the skin all over the body for about half an hour, but you can get a non-flushing Niacin, though I don't believe it works as well.

The Q10 in high potency are not cheap to come by. I take them myself, and I buy from Vitacost in the USA... It's the cheapest I have come across and they are very reliable, although if you buy on-line and have it shipped to Ireland, there will be VAT and a handling fee to pay on top. One way around that is to have the goods ordered and paid for on line, but delivered to a good friend somewhere in the US who is prepared to re-package (Vitacost often delivers ridiculously big packages) and to send it on to you as a "gift".... value declared should not exceed ~$ 30 (£ 18 strictly speaking) to avoid VAT. It takes a little longer, but can be a huge saving... I only do it twice a year, and well in advance, so it's not too much of an imposition.

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-CoQ10-200-mg-240-Capsules have a browse around....

Niacin, I believe, is not so very expensive to buy in Ireland or the UK, but perhaps you would find it on the Vitacost site too.

However, perhaps you could get both prescribed (or at least the Niacin) and on prescription it should be totally free for you (hope your doctor has at least informed you about being exempt from prescription charges !?)

***Oh god it's frightening. I'm going to leave it at this point cos I cant hold back my tears from thinkingback over time.

Please don't be scared any longer... you've found this forum now, and you will get lots of support and information on here. Keep reading - which reminds me... Have you got Dr. Peatfields book "your thyroid and how to keep it healthy" ? - if not, I'd highly recommend buying it (it's not expensive- under £ 10). Everything is explained in there, and armed with all this knowledge, you'll feel so much stronger. The worst about our illness - any illness - is not to know what is going on with our bodies... and unfortunately, many of our doctors want to keep it this way. - Oh, and don't worry too much about crossing over to insanity just yet.... you sound pretty coherent and switched on to me

love,

[Guest guest]

Thanks , that's all great information & I will try to get the

tabs that you suggest & will also push to get them free on

prescription, that's about the only thing they did tell me, that its

free on prescription. I did ask if I could get my dental treatment

free as well because I do believe that the illness has had a negative

effect on my teeth, but was told no.

I had a wonderful sleep last night I think I had tired myself out

over the last few weeks & it all caught up on me, as you say not taking

Thyroxine didn't help, I know better now.

I feel god this morning & as you say I'm now going in the right

direction, I am so grateful for your help & kindness, thank you.

Debbie x

[Guest guest]

Sorry that was supposed to say I feel good this morning lol

> I feel god this morning & as you say I'm now going in the right > direction, I am so grateful for your help & kindness, thank you.> Debbie x

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

Mixed symptoms hyper/hypo are not uncommon, but do confuse

the doc. Did you have RAI or surgery, if the latter was the whole

thyroid removed? Because if not, there may be a part that is still

functioning. We usually say not to take meds of the day of the test

until after blood has been drawn- leaving it longer can obviously lead

to results lower than they normally are. If you have no functioning

thyroid then you may not be able to utilise the T4 or convert it to the

active hormone T3- especially as you have depression- T3 has a strong

effect on mood.

Subject: Re: Blood tests

Hi ,

Yes I take Thyroxine & have done for 13 years, I paused taking them for

a few days for the blood tests, then took them again when test was

done.

I really don't know which I am as I have symptoms of both Hyper & Hypo,

don't ever remember any Dr telling me which I was & my GP tells me

there is nothing wrong with my Thyroid I'm just depressed.

I was given Thyroxine to take after having Thyroid cancer 13 years ago.

All that has ever happened since then is yearly blood tests & my health

deteriorating, mainly mentally lol.

Debbie x

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I had half the Thyroid removed, no other treatment was given & then

placed on Thyroxine.

What I'm gathering from & yourself is that my last test may

also not be a true picture because I stopped taking my meds for 4 days

instead of just 24 hours, is that right ?

Thanks

Debbie

Hi Debbie

- leaving it longer can obviously lead to results lower than they

normally are.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

Yes, last test will show a bit lower than is actually the

case- this of course is complicated by whether you can actually make use

of the hormones floating around in the blood- complicated isn't it?

As you still have half a thyroid it is still probably functioning- now

this is where is gets complicated- if you take thyroid meds, then this

may have the effect of slowing down production of the struggling (it's

trying to do the job of a whole thyroid) remainder, so you may need to

keep increasing meds until you are on a full replacement dose to get any

benefit as the more you add may result in less being produced until

enough is taken to have an effect.

Subject: Re: Blood tests

Hi ,

my last test may

also not be a true picture because I stopped taking my meds for 4 days

instead of just 24 hours, is that right ?

Thanks

Debbie

>

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Had to go to Occupational health today, as I had major depression

10yrs ago they say that I am obviously suffering from work related

anxiety!!!

Apparently my gasping to draw breath means that I have too much

carbon dioxide in my blood hence the symptoms - hair loss, splitting

nails, cold legs/feet, low body tmp (as low as 35.5), pulse of over

90, husky voice, so weak I could cry

Help...basically its all in my mind

n thyroid treatment , " Stenning "

<jennystenning@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Vicky,

> A TSH of 3.0 is higher than normal as over 90% of healthy

> folk have a TSH of around 1.0, but sadly not above the NHS

> threshold- which is usually 5.0. As usual FT3 wasn't done which

> would show clearer what is going on as the T4 has to convert to

> T3 which is the active hormone, but a FT4 of 15 isn't that good

> either. Ask doc for thyroid antibody test as this may show you on

> the slippery slope of thyroid failure.

> Check the files area for the other mimics of thyroid disease such as

> candida, amalgams ETC that can prevent the thyroid hormones from

> working properly.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

> practitioner before changing medication.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

Maybe this is the new tactic, tell us we're crazy so often that we

finally agree with them! Depression can be caused by lack of T3.

Subject: Re: blood tests

Had to go to Occupational health today, as I had major depression

10yrs ago they say that I am obviously suffering from work related

anxiety!!!

Help...basically its all in my mind

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

> practitioner before changing medication.

>

>

[Guest guest]

People with Multiple Sclerosis used to be told they were hysterical

and sometimes even put into mental hospital. So there has been some

progress in the right direction with that illness at least.

Miriam

> Maybe this is the new tactic, tell us we're crazy so often that

we finally agree with them! Depression can be caused by lack of T3.

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam/,

The RCP do admit that, perhaps they haven't really got to grips with

MS yet....oooo, that's a biggy

best wishes

Bob

>

> > Maybe this is the new tactic, tell us we're crazy so often

that

> we finally agree with them! Depression can be caused by lack of T3.

>

[Guest guest]

Miriam,

Maybe we can learn from the story of MS how to get our own illness

properly treated?

I wonder how that story played out, might be interesting.

Jane

[Guest guest]

I'm afraid I don't know much more. Perhaps in the case of M S it is

less easy to start ascribing symptoms to other things such as being

overweight. I expect independent researchers played a role too, as

they are doing with ME/CFS.

Miriam

> Maybe we can learn from the story of MS how to get our own illness

> properly treated? I wonder how that story played out, might be

interesting.