arsenic

[Guest guest]

> Both NAC(N-acetylcysteine)

Since NAC isn't a chelating agent, it doesn't chelate anything.

It may or may not be mildly beneficial to those with arsenic, but ALA

works much better.

>nd DMSA chelate arsenic. But the issue isn't just whether

there is chelation, but also whether there are adverse effects also or

which does it the most safely. I've posted abstracts of studies on

this before.

> Bernie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been remo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:12:29 AM Central Standard Time,

klmrav4@... writes: Oh lovely, I hope the neighborhood was able to do

something about it.

After the health department and EPA investigation, their spraying methods

changed greatly. However it is legal for golf courses, athletic fields and

agricultural companies to spray arsenic even if they are in a neighborhood so

it's something to watch for if your child's immune system is dysregulated or

weak.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/12/2004 2:38:23 PM Central Standard Time, golivo@...

writes:

Do you know if public parks or school fields are sprayed with arsenic sprays?

Sometimes but usually only very large expanses where they don't want weeds

like ball fields. Call your city and ask for the person who handles grounds

spraying in your area. They're usually very nice about sending MSDS sheets on

whatever they're spraying on the areas you're concerned about. Most will even

call you before they spray if you ask them to so you can keep your child off of

it until it's watered in well.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Hi Gaylen,

Do you know if public parks or school fields are sprayed with arsenic sprays?

Argie

Re: Arsenic

Thanks Gaylen, food for thought

Googahly@... wrote:In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:12:29 AM Central

Standard Time,

klmrav4@... writes: Oh lovely, I hope the neighborhood was able to do

something about it.

After the health department and EPA investigation, their spraying methods

changed greatly. However it is legal for golf courses, athletic fields and

agricultural companies to spray arsenic even if they are in a neighborhood so

it's something to watch for if your child's immune system is dysregulated or

weak.

Gaylen

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thank you.

Re: Arsenic

In a message dated 4/12/2004, golivo@... writes: Do you know if public

parks or school fields are sprayed with arsenic sprays?

----

Sometimes but usually only very large expanses where they don't want weeds

like ball fields. Call your city and ask for the person who handles grounds

spraying in your area. They're usually very nice about sending MSDS sheets on

whatever they're spraying on the areas you're concerned about. Most will even

call you before they spray if you ask them to so you can keep your child off of

it until it's watered in well.

Gaylen

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

-------- To visit your group on the web, go to:

/

[Guest guest]

I've looked into arsenic a bit. It has a colorful history. Still not

sure what to make of it.

There are claims that arsenic is a psychostimulant and I worry

that such an effect could be misinterpreted as evidence of

reduced bacterial load. " The Arsenic Eaters " must have felt

some sort of benefit, but I haven't taken the time to really

investigate this.

I'll side-step any debate over toxicity by pointing out that the

efficacy of arsenic against bacteria is qualified by a number of

factors.

Low amounts of arsenic commonly occur in the environment.

Microbes have responded to this by encoding arsenic

resistance. I won't give citations for this. You can find volumes

on this by searching for " arsenic resistance " , " ars operon " , etc.

Often these genes occur on plasmids and in some cases these

plasmids can be transferred from one species of bacteria to

another.

This paper:

http://tinyurl.com/cybam

PMID: 2733075

reports that about 95% of the 62 clinical isolates of Staph from a

chinese hospital were resistant to arsenic. Perhaps the water

in that region is high in arsenic, leading to high-level resistance,

in which case it may not be relevant to people living in other

areas.

Furthermore, this paper:

http://tinyurl.com/cr746

PMID: 11391480

shows that 48 to 72 hours of exposure to 5 mM arsenic (followed

by removal of the arsenic) induced resistance, in Yersinia

enterocolitica, to multiple antibiotics.

I can't tell from this what the likelihood is of a similar effect

occurring in more relevant species, but it does suggest the

complexity of arsenic use.

Matt

> > > > per

> > > > I feel on ebay your micrscope store is UNBELIEVABLE as

far

> > as

> > > > pricing goes . A 2000 dollar microscope equivalent sells

for

> > 200

> > > > dollars and the opticals shouldbe fine.

[Guest guest]

Matt

These articles are spot on...Many people using arsenic in europe for

cfs sufferers would alway's use very low dose and possably built

resistance before any benefit could be obtained.I thought tarello's

low dose could possably be double that amount initially to get at

all the bugs while the organisms are sensitive so as to reduce the

chance of resistance developing.I base this on arsenics ability to

get into all your bodies knooks and crannies like no other

drug.Tarello's micrococci samples are obtained from the environemnt

and animal population which tend to be mainly coagulase positive

cocci which don't develop resistance as easily. Basically staph

areus is a coag positive staph that when it shows any vanco

resistance they ring the CDC. I spot many coag negative staphs and

many are very poor with vancomycin.

So to sum up the initial dose of aresnic could be crucial to turning

things around big time in your health.

tony

> > > > > per

> > > > > I feel on ebay your micrscope store is UNBELIEVABLE as

> far

> > > as

> > > > > pricing goes . A 2000 dollar microscope equivalent sells

> for

> > > 200

> > > > > dollars and the opticals shouldbe fine.

[Guest guest]

Matt

My english friend studied the arsenic used and said most third world

countries get more arsenic from there drinking water ... So to say

it's a problem- people associating medicinal arsenic to large level

exposure arsenic ilness is wrong IMO.

I also tested many samples for there ability to be killed by arsenic

and found it 50/50 in the cfs samples I observed.

tony

> > > > > per

> > > > > I feel on ebay your micrscope store is UNBELIEVABLE as

> far

> > > as

> > > > > pricing goes . A 2000 dollar microscope equivalent sells

> for

> > > 200

> > > > > dollars and the opticals shouldbe fine.

[Guest guest]

" dumbaussie2000 " <dumbaussie2000@y...> wrote:

most third world countries get more arsenic from there drinking

water ...

So maybe THAT's why CFS seems to be an illness of the more developed

countries? :-)

penny

[Guest guest]

I would think processed foods lack of oxyegn in big cities would help

you get there as well.

tony

> most third world countries get more arsenic from there drinking

> water ...

>

> So maybe THAT's why CFS seems to be an illness of the more developed

> countries? :-)

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

,

If he has ever eaten chicken, he will have arsenic in his system, as

well as from eating rice. Chickens are fed arsenic on purpose to fatten

them up, it increases their appetite. Only buy organic fed chickens,

more expensive, but worth the toxic exposure from the regular chicken.

Nothing surprises me anymore on how toxic our children are, it is a

travesty to say the least.

Good luck with your sons health.

>

> Our son is adopted from Guatemala and has been home 2 years. He is 3

> and has high functioning Austin and severe Apraxia. We started

> getting tests results back from our DAN doctor and the hair test just

> arrived. has arsenic in his cells. The thought of how is got

> there makes me sick, sad and angry at the same time. So, once all

the

> tests get back we begin chelating. I never saw this coming. Has

> anyone else had this happen?

>

> -NC

>

[Guest guest]

Does everyone remember when the bacterial free craze hit -and then

they found that children that grew up in homes where the parents

were clean, but not fanatically clean, were healthier? In fact

those that grew up in bacterial free homes were 'more' prone to

asthma? http://www.newstarget.com/007383.html In other words just

like good and bad cholesterol, there is good and bad in everything

in this world it appears. Unless you understand what you are

getting rid of and why as they say....

I don't know if there is or isn't any unusual amounts of arsenic in

your son, or for that matter how long he's lived with you in North

Carolina. But I do know that there is great doubt that if he was

exposed to arsenic over 12 months ago it would be in his hair samples

today or that there is a way to definitely chelate him of arsenic.

Have you considered a second opinion with an MD? (call the Agency

for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), Division of

Toxicology at 1-888-422-8737)

" How is arsenic exposure diagnosed?

There are tests that measure the level of arsenic in your body.

Arsenic can be measured in blood, urine, hair and fingernails.

Testing urine will tell you if you have been exposed to arsenic in

the last few days. Testing hair and fingernails will tell you if

you have been exposed to arsenic in the past six to twelve months.

These tests will tell you if it was arsenic that made you sick.

However, the tests cannot tell if the arsenic will make you sick in

the future.

What is the treatment for arsenic exposure?

There is no effective treatment for arsenic exposure. Your health

care provider can only help provide relief from your symptoms.

What should I do if I have concerns about arsenic exposure?

See your health care provider to discuss your concerns. For more

information, call the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease

Registry (ATSDR), Division of Toxicology at 1-888-422-8737. "

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/healthywater/factsheets/arsenic.htm

I'm sure the average child, adult, puppy, fish, plant and every

other living organism on this planet today has certain amounts of

various toxins inside us. Even if it was possible and healthy to

remove them all, unless one then lives in a scientifically

controlled bubble, how would any of us live toxin free in today's

world which has toxins in air, water, soil (food, clothes,

carpeting, wood...need I go on?)

And speaking of bubbles -not to pop anyone's but hair testing and

chelation to treat autism may rid you of more toxins than your son.

(really...have you ever noticed how dirty some of the money in your

wallet is?)

Found this online as one interesting opinion:

" ...Yes, and if you ask nutritionists with Ph.D.s how they would

interpret " mineral scores " off a computer from some lab or other,

they

would be the first to tell you that it's not just a matter of reading

things off the columns and giving supplements of everything that

tests

out " low. " You need to know a LOT more about the lab, their

controls,

their reproducability, methods, etc, etc. Each mineral has it's own

peculiarities. Some of them are easy to test for-- for example, your

serum potassium is usually reasonably reflective of your body stores,

and your serum ferritin provides the same function for iron (with

some

health caveats in both cases you have to watch for in order to avoid

bad inferences). Others minerals are *far* more difficult, and

literally NOBODY knows exactly how to test and what to test to be

certain of body stores and presense or absense of " deficiency. " Let

alone optimal health status. Chromium is an example. We know it's

an

essential trace element, but we (even the experts) don't yet know

many

of the ins and outs of " chromium health. " The statement " You're low

in

chromium " actually translates to " I'm a quack, " because nobody to

this

day knows enough about chromium to know how to tell reliably from a

blood or hair test *alone* if somebody is " low " in it, and is thereby

suffering some health problem which would be corrected with a proper

store. Some minerals need to have functional tests (glucose

tolerance)

associated with their replacement to know if the person is really

functionally deficient in the mineral. For other minerals (selenium)

we don't even have THAT much. And when it comes to things like tin

and

arsenic, what we know about chromium and selenium makes us look like

experts by comparison... "

Steve , M.D.

http://yarchive.net/med/minerals.html

=====

[Guest guest]

,

Arsenic exposure is not to be equated with a bacteria free

environment and a more sick child.

Arsenic is a real and dangerous toxin, why have people taken up

wooden decks and dismantled childrens swing sets, but for the fact

they are arsenic laden items, dangerous for children and pets.

http://www.parentsknow.com/articles/article.php?id=1091373216

Arsenic can be eliminated from the body via proper restoration of

body stores of vitamins/minerals that would be affected by a body

burden of heavy metals of any type.

Only a few recent studies have examined the potential for CNS effects

in populations of children from subchronic environmental arsenic

exposure. A cross-sectional study by Siripitayakunkit et al., 1999

and Siripitayakunkit et al., 2001 found a negative correlation

between hair arsenic levels and IQ test scores and visual perception

(but not visual motor integration) for 529 children ages 6¨C9 years.

Calder¨®n et al. (2001) report an association between total arsenic in

urine and decreases in certain IQ and cognitive test scores within a

population of children (ages 6¨C9 years) living near a smelter in

Mexico. The study population size was also relatively small (N=41 for

the smelter group). Although the magnitude of the change in test

score with urinary arsenic level was not reported, the higher scores

of the smelter children on all tests compared to the " control " town

indicate that the potential effect of arsenic exposure appears to be

small in comparison with other factors that determine test

performance. The use of total arsenic levels in urine is an imprecise

measure of inorganic arsenic exposure because it includes organic

dietary arsenic forms.

Tsai et al. (2003) related cumulative arsenic dose (arsenic intake

from water multiplied by years of exposure) groups (e.g., high, low,

control) of 9¨C13 year-old children to their performance on

neurobehavioral tests. Significant effects related to high cumulative

dose group were found for pattern memory and switching attention but

not continuous performance or symbol digit tests. The authors note

that the decrements observed could be due to peripheral rather than

CNS effects. Limitations of this study for evaluating effects in

young children are the chronic rather than subchronic exposure

period, small study sample size (29 high exposure, 20 low exposure,

and 60 controls from another town), and potential incomplete

adjustment for confounding factors. The arsenic water concentrations

(reported as an average of 185 ¡À 225 ¦Ìg/L) also included levels

associated with skin effects in other populations (e.g., Mazumder et

al., 1998).

These studies suggest that cognitive effects may be possible in

children at lower arsenic exposures than acute poisoning, but do not

demonstrate that such effects occur at lower exposure levels.

>

> Does everyone remember when the bacterial free craze hit -and then

> they found that children that grew up in homes where the parents

> were clean, but not fanatically clean, were healthier? In fact

> those that grew up in bacterial free homes were 'more' prone to

> asthma? http://www.newstarget.com/007383.html In other words just

> like good and bad cholesterol, there is good and bad in everything

> in this world it appears. Unless you understand what you are

> getting rid of and why as they say....

>

> I don't know if there is or isn't any unusual amounts of arsenic in

> your son, or for that matter how long he's lived with you in North

> Carolina. But I do know that there is great doubt that if he was

> exposed to arsenic over 12 months ago it would be in his hair

samples

> today or that there is a way to definitely chelate him of

arsenic.

> Have you considered a second opinion with an MD? (call the Agency

> for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), Division of

> Toxicology at 1-888-422-8737)

>

> " How is arsenic exposure diagnosed?

> There are tests that measure the level of arsenic in your body.

> Arsenic can be measured in blood, urine, hair and fingernails.

> Testing urine will tell you if you have been exposed to arsenic in

> the last few days. Testing hair and fingernails will tell you if

> you have been exposed to arsenic in the past six to twelve months.

> These tests will tell you if it was arsenic that made you sick.

> However, the tests cannot tell if the arsenic will make you sick in

> the future.

>

> What is the treatment for arsenic exposure?

> There is no effective treatment for arsenic exposure. Your health

> care provider can only help provide relief from your symptoms.

>

> What should I do if I have concerns about arsenic exposure?

> See your health care provider to discuss your concerns. For more

> information, call the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease

> Registry (ATSDR), Division of Toxicology at 1-888-422-8737. "

> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/healthywater/factsheets/arsenic.htm

>

> I'm sure the average child, adult, puppy, fish, plant and every

> other living organism on this planet today has certain amounts of

> various toxins inside us. Even if it was possible and healthy to

> remove them all, unless one then lives in a scientifically

> controlled bubble, how would any of us live toxin free in today's

> world which has toxins in air, water, soil (food, clothes,

> carpeting, wood...need I go on?)

>

> And speaking of bubbles -not to pop anyone's but hair testing and

> chelation to treat autism may rid you of more toxins than your

son.

> (really...have you ever noticed how dirty some of the money in your

> wallet is?)

>

> Found this online as one interesting opinion:

>

> " ...Yes, and if you ask nutritionists with Ph.D.s how they would

> interpret " mineral scores " off a computer from some lab or other,

> they

> would be the first to tell you that it's not just a matter of

reading

> things off the columns and giving supplements of everything that

> tests

> out " low. " You need to know a LOT more about the lab, their

> controls,

> their reproducability, methods, etc, etc. Each mineral has it's own

> peculiarities. Some of them are easy to test for-- for example,

your

> serum potassium is usually reasonably reflective of your body

stores,

> and your serum ferritin provides the same function for iron (with

> some

> health caveats in both cases you have to watch for in order to avoid

> bad inferences). Others minerals are *far* more difficult, and

> literally NOBODY knows exactly how to test and what to test to be

> certain of body stores and presense or absense of " deficiency. " Let

> alone optimal health status. Chromium is an example. We know it's

> an

> essential trace element, but we (even the experts) don't yet know

> many

> of the ins and outs of " chromium health. " The statement " You're

low

> in

> chromium " actually translates to " I'm a quack, " because nobody to

> this

> day knows enough about chromium to know how to tell reliably from a

> blood or hair test *alone* if somebody is " low " in it, and is

thereby

> suffering some health problem which would be corrected with a proper

> store. Some minerals need to have functional tests (glucose

> tolerance)

> associated with their replacement to know if the person is really

> functionally deficient in the mineral. For other minerals

(selenium)

> we don't even have THAT much. And when it comes to things like tin

> and

> arsenic, what we know about chromium and selenium makes us look like

> experts by comparison... "

> Steve , M.D.

> http://yarchive.net/med/minerals.html

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Colleen,

Sorry if I didn't make it clear that I was not intending to compare

bacteria and arsenic. Too bad I guess I didn't compare arsenic to

botulism (Botox) -then you may have gotten my point. If you told

your grandmother you were going to inject botulism into her forehead

what do you think she would say before she went running and

screaming from the room....yet today would be standing in line with

her checkbook ...waiting!

What I was doing is showing that what we know today as " fact " we can

laugh at 10 to 50 years from now as we continue to learn more. I

was also showing that what is considered " toxic " or " bad " today, may

be found to be helpful years from now. Oh and guess what just

showed up in Google news -arsenic may help fight...cancer!

Doctors See Arsenic as New Hope for Cancer

2005-10-9 10:21:48

South China Morning Post

Tests show poison could control abnormal reproduction of cells

By PATSY MOY

One of the common cancers in Hong Kong could be treatable with

arsenic - the notorious poison of fact and fiction - according to

doctors from the University of Hong Kong.

Sham Shun-tong, the university's head of the department of

clinical oncology, said initial medical findings had shown that

arsenic could control abnormal reproduction of cells, which means it

may control the spread of the cancer. "

http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2238/2005-10-9/33275733 (DOT) htm

Also is there an amount that can be in the body that is acceptable?

DNREC seeks to increase

allowable arsenic level in soil

http://www.capegazette.com/storiescurrent/1005/arsenic100705.html

Is it probably wise to not have arsenic around your toys play

things? Absolutely I would assume so like most.

But I just suggested calling (call the Agency

> > for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), Division of

> > Toxicology at 1-888-422-8737) to see what is a concern and to

get the facts.

I also guessed you missed the point that when the children today are

picking up exposures to toxins in our natural environment by just

living, (which includes breathing and eating etc.) -then how do you

propose to keep them " toxin free " and allow them at the same time to

live normal lives on this now toxic planet? My plan -water

purification systems for the home, and fish oils every day ...and

Whole Foods is my favorite super market of course- should be

one in every neighborhood. That's about the extent of it. It may

take decades to know the " right " way to deal with what we have to

live with. We each are intelligent and loving parents here who look

to do what's best for our children. We may not agree on hair

testing for this situation -but at least we agree on that!

=====

[Guest guest]

> The thing about arsenic is it was used quite commonly for a very long

time, for things like syphillis, until antibiotics came into existence.

Then a big publicity campaign ensued to convince the public it was

dangerous, even in the tiny amounts used medicinally, so that we would

adopt the new drugs and eventually make it illegal.

Well, it was used for syphilis right up until 1944-5 when penicillin

came out... and I don't think there's much question that penicillin is

legitimately far safer.

[Guest guest]

> Legality is tricky in the U.S. The FDA has approved arsenic therapy

only for leukemia so far. However, I was told that Arizona has more

liberal laws than the rest of the U.S. and that it might be legal there.

I'm sure no doctor would ever treat me with it for CFS in a million

years. But it's legal to do pretty near anything you please to

yourself. For now I'm more interested in using it for experiments on

stationary phase E coli.

I don't see a heck of a lot of arsenic for sale on the internet, ie

any. Assuming that it is in fact legal to possess, there are probably

legal restrictions on shipping it (for very good reason, of course).

And then there's disposal; that would definitely require knowing what

you are doing. Since it's a chemical element, there is no reasonable

way to actually destroy it.

Unfortunately, with two cases (the Tarellos) reporting full response

and three (including Tony) reporting an apparantly incomplete response,

it doesn't look like it's necessarily crushingly effective. I also

don't think the heavy metals in general have a history of being

crushingly effective on neurasthenia etc or on syphilis.

[Guest guest]

Dear

Arsenicals for use as additives to stockfeeds used to be common, especially in the pig industry. I'd be extremely surprised, given their attitude to antibiotics and antibiotic resistant enterococci, if arsenicals were not currently available OTC if you look and smell like a pigfarmer . :-)

Regards

Windsor

[infections] Re: Arsenic

> Legality is tricky in the U.S. The FDA has approved arsenic therapy only for leukemia so far. However, I was told that Arizona has more liberal laws than the rest of the U.S. and that it might be legal there.I'm sure no doctor would ever treat me with it for CFS in a million years. But it's legal to do pretty near anything you please to yourself. For now I'm more interested in using it for experiments on stationary phase E coli.I don't see a heck of a lot of arsenic for sale on the internet, ie any. Assuming that it is in fact legal to possess, there are probably legal restrictions on shipping it (for very good reason, of course). And then there's disposal; that would definitely require knowing what you are doing. Since it's a chemical element, there is no reasonable way to actually destroy it. Unfortunately, with two cases (the Tarellos) reporting full response and three (including Tony) reporting an apparantly incomplete response, it doesn't look like it's necessarily crushingly effective. I also don't think the heavy metals in general have a history of being crushingly effective on neurasthenia etc or on syphilis.

[Guest guest]

My cousins have a family farm in the midwest, where most of our

farming is... I got to walk through their neighbors' large-scale hog

barn one time... so I know what you mean! It makes a chicken coop or

cow pasture or a dump smell like flowers. Some job, considering you

could raise any other plant or animal instead... there must be some

kind of money or risk related up-side that brings people to it.

It looks like arsenic likes to complex with suflhydryls, including the

ones in the active sites of certain enzymes... in other words it

probably has a lot of different targets. Perhaps that explains why

porcine enterococci might not acquire much resistance to it even if

they easily pick up acquired resistance to other stuff. Too many

targets to mutate. There's no do-able way to mutate the sulfhydryl

side chain out of an enzyme's active site, anyway, because doing so

will destroy the active site. Of course, there's *always* a way

around, and they might get some resistance by over-expressing their

arsenic detox equipment. But to get hundred-fold resistance, they'd

have to overexpress that stuff hundred-fold... they may or may not be

able to crank it up that high.

> Dear

> Arsenicals for use as additives to stockfeeds used to be common,

especially in the pig industry. I'd be extremely surprised, given

their attitude to antibiotics and antibiotic resistant enterococci, if

arsenicals were not currently available OTC if you look and smell like

a pigfarmer . :-)

> Regards

> Windsor

[Guest guest]

Dear

You might like to look at http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/567/playing-chicken-avoiding-arsenic-in-your-meat.

Regards

R

[infections] Re: Arsenic

My cousins have a family farm in the midwest, where most of ourfarming is... I got to walk through their neighbors' large-scale hogbarn one time... so I know what you mean! It makes a chicken coop orcow pasture or a dump smell like flowers. Some job, considering youcould raise any other plant or animal instead... there must be somekind of money or risk related up-side that brings people to it. It looks like arsenic likes to complex with suflhydryls, including theones in the active sites of certain enzymes... in other words itprobably has a lot of different targets. Perhaps that explains whyporcine enterococci might not acquire much resistance to it even ifthey easily pick up acquired resistance to other stuff. Too manytargets to mutate. There's no do-able way to mutate the sulfhydrylside chain out of an enzyme's active site, anyway, because doing sowill destroy the active site. Of course, there's *always* a wayaround, and they might get some resistance by over-expressing theirarsenic detox equipment. But to get hundred-fold resistance, they'dhave to overexpress that stuff hundred-fold... they may or may not beable to crank it up that high. > Dear > Arsenicals for use as additives to stockfeeds used to be common,especially in the pig industry. I'd be extremely surprised, giventheir attitude to antibiotics and antibiotic resistant enterococci, ifarsenicals were not currently available OTC if you look and smell likea pigfarmer . :-) > Regards> Windsor

[Guest guest]

Dear

You might like a look at this http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/

They appear to sell arsenicals but the real value is in the compilation of info on trace elements.

Regards

R

[infections] Re: Arsenic

..

[Guest guest]

It goes under another name, but for the life of me I can't remember it. Wait! Fowler's Solution? It just came to me (if that's actually it). penny <usenethod@...> wrote: > Legality is tricky in the U.S. The FDA has approved arsenic therapy only for leukemia so far. However, I was told that Arizona has more liberal laws than the rest of the U.S. and that it might be legal there.I'm sure no doctor would ever treat me with it for CFS in a million

years. But it's legal to do pretty near anything you please to yourself. For now I'm more interested in using it for experiments on stationary phase E coli.I don't see a heck of a lot of arsenic for sale on the internet, ie any. Assuming that it is in fact legal to possess, there are probably legal restrictions on shipping it (for very good reason, of course). And then there's disposal; that would definitely require knowing what you are doing. Since it's a chemical element, there is no reasonable way to actually destroy it. Unfortunately, with two cases (the Tarellos) reporting full response and three (including Tony) reporting an apparantly incomplete response, it doesn't look like it's necessarily crushingly effective. I also don't think the heavy metals in general have a history of being crushingly effective on neurasthenia etc or on syphilis.