Re: Do I really need to remove my gallbladder?

[Guest guest]

The only times I have come across where people have needed to have

their GB removed have been for the following reasons

1) a stone too large too pass and unable to get it it small enough to

pass...for variuos reasons

2) serious infection to the GB...in some cases causing gangreen to

set in

3) liver creating too copious amount of stones for the person to

handle well...of which they feel requires the removal of the GB...but

a lot peopel are not willing to make the needed diet changes to stop

or slow this process...so they go ahead and have the GB removed.

Pointless because these stones are still being just as much in the

liver, possibly creating a fatty liver....and future health

complications

4) other dysfunction of the GB for unknown reasons

which causes it not work properly even when given the opportunity to

do so. I haven't heard of any of these cases...but yours might

acyually be one of these. I have read and experienced that the liver

and GB are quite resilant and responsive to healing when given the

chance to do so.

> After 3 cholics I checked out my gallbladder with an ultrasound. I

have been told that I have some stones and sand and that my

gallbladder has the shape of an 8 eight

> and that doesn't work properly or at all from years. I never had

problems until two weeks ago. Last week I started a diet with apples

and cranberry-grape juices and I didn't have any cholics. Do I really

need to remove my gallbladder? What's the best way to do it and does

anybody knows a good general doctor in NYC to double check the

situation?

> Thank you

[Guest guest]

Thank you Christa for your answer.

During the weekend I researched litle bit more and I got a big

confusion about gallstones and how to cure them.

1)Somebody think (but there is no scientific prove) that gallstones

are formed in the liver and then they pass in the GB, and would be

sufficient a series of liver cleanse to get rid of them.

2)The ufficial medicine think that gallstones are formed in the GB

(or somentimes in the tubes) because the GB doesn't work properly.

This morning I went for a second opinion to another doctor and he

told me that the shape shouldn't matter, the GB doesn't work because

I got gallstones (it doesn't make too much sense too e ... again I

never had prblems before) He of course suggested me to have the

surgery ... Well I want to avoid the surgery at any cost if is

possible so please if you can make some lights to the gallstones and

GB issues let me know. Where can I find more and good info about GB,

diet related to it or a good doctor?

What I can say about my case is that I was in a low carb and high

fat diet from May (kind of an Atkins diet) that's why I guess I got

those problems. Is now 9 days I'm back in a normal low fat diet and

I didn't have problems so far. In the previous two weeks I got 5

very painful colics, but my gallstones seem to be small.

My GB is now of course irritated how do I know if I'm in a risk of

infection, should I checked it out once in a while, can and should I

perform the liver cleansing or could be dangerous?

Thanks in advance and sorry for such long email and my bad English,

I'm new in this group as well in this country.

m

> The only times I have come across where people have needed to have

> their GB removed have been for the following reasons

>

> 1) a stone too large too pass and unable to get it it small enough

to

> pass...for variuos reasons

>

> 2) serious infection to the GB...in some cases causing gangreen to

> set in

>

> 3) liver creating too copious amount of stones for the person to

> handle well...of which they feel requires the removal of the

GB...but

> a lot peopel are not willing to make the needed diet changes to

stop

> or slow this process...so they go ahead and have the GB removed.

> Pointless because these stones are still being just as much in the

> liver, possibly creating a fatty liver....and future health

> complications

>

> 4) other dysfunction of the GB for unknown reasons

> which causes it not work properly even when given the opportunity

to

> do so. I haven't heard of any of these cases...but yours might

> acyually be one of these. I have read and experienced that the

liver

> and GB are quite resilant and responsive to healing when given the

> chance to do so.

>

>

> --- In gallstones , il mafioso <er_mafioso@y...>

wrote:

> > After 3 cholics I checked out my gallbladder with an ultrasound.

I

> have been told that I have some stones and sand and that my

> gallbladder has the shape of an 8 eight

> > and that doesn't work properly or at all from years. I never had

> problems until two weeks ago. Last week I started a diet with

apples

> and cranberry-grape juices and I didn't have any cholics. Do I

really

> need to remove my gallbladder? What's the best way to do it and

does

> anybody knows a good general doctor in NYC to double check the

> situation?

> > Thank you

[Guest guest]

Thank you Christa for your answer.

During the weekend I researched litle bit more and I got a big

confusion about gallstones and how to cure them.

1)Somebody think (but there is no scientific prove) that gallstones

are formed in the liver and then they pass in the GB, and would be

sufficient a series of liver cleanse to get rid of them.

2)The ufficial medicine think that gallstones are formed in the GB

(or somentimes in the tubes) because the GB doesn't work properly.

This morning I went for a second opinion to another doctor and he

told me that the shape shouldn't matter, the GB doesn't work because

I got gallstones (it doesn't make too much sense too e ... again I

never had prblems before) He of course suggested me to have the

surgery ... Well I want to avoid the surgery at any cost if is

possible so please if you can make some lights to the gallstones and

GB issues let me know. Where can I find more and good info about GB,

diet related to it or a good doctor?

What I can say about my case is that I was in a low carb and high

fat diet from May (kind of an Atkins diet) that's why I guess I got

those problems. Is now 9 days I'm back in a normal low fat diet and

I didn't have problems so far. In the previous two weeks I got 5

very painful colics, but my gallstones seem to be small.

My GB is now of course irritated how do I know if I'm in a risk of

infection, should I checked it out once in a while, can and should I

perform the liver cleansing or could be dangerous?

Thanks in advance and sorry for such long email and my bad English,

I'm new in this group as well in this country.

m

> The only times I have come across where people have needed to have

> their GB removed have been for the following reasons

>

> 1) a stone too large too pass and unable to get it it small enough

to

> pass...for variuos reasons

>

> 2) serious infection to the GB...in some cases causing gangreen to

> set in

>

> 3) liver creating too copious amount of stones for the person to

> handle well...of which they feel requires the removal of the

GB...but

> a lot peopel are not willing to make the needed diet changes to

stop

> or slow this process...so they go ahead and have the GB removed.

> Pointless because these stones are still being just as much in the

> liver, possibly creating a fatty liver....and future health

> complications

>

> 4) other dysfunction of the GB for unknown reasons

> which causes it not work properly even when given the opportunity

to

> do so. I haven't heard of any of these cases...but yours might

> acyually be one of these. I have read and experienced that the

liver

> and GB are quite resilant and responsive to healing when given the

> chance to do so.

>

>

> --- In gallstones , il mafioso <er_mafioso@y...>

wrote:

> > After 3 cholics I checked out my gallbladder with an ultrasound.

I

> have been told that I have some stones and sand and that my

> gallbladder has the shape of an 8 eight

> > and that doesn't work properly or at all from years. I never had

> problems until two weeks ago. Last week I started a diet with

apples

> and cranberry-grape juices and I didn't have any cholics. Do I

really

> need to remove my gallbladder? What's the best way to do it and

does

> anybody knows a good general doctor in NYC to double check the

> situation?

> > Thank you

[Guest guest]

> 1)Somebody think (but there is no scientific prove) that gallstones

> are formed in the liver and then they pass in the GB, and would be

> sufficient a series of liver cleanse to get rid of them.

> 2)The ufficial medicine think that gallstones are formed in the GB

> (or somentimes in the tubes) because the GB doesn't work properly.

>

There is no scientific proof where any of these stone are actually

formed...but science can't not deny that fat is processed by the

liver...that fat is circulating all over our bodies...that out

bodies, regardless of how " fat " or " thin " a person is, even when we

do not consume cholesterol based products, produces its own

cholesterol....and that fat, depending on how our bodies can, or can

not, use it, determines our state of health.

Science also can not deny, or explain, the large numbers of people

being diagnosed with " fatty livers " ...when a large number of these

people claim to be consuming a " low fat " diet. It is also quite

clear, and medicine is showing it in the journals, that we do seem to

have an epidemic problem in this country with GB and liver problems.

My question to science would be then...where did all that fat in the

liver's of these people come from?...and why does such a large number

of these people show that by the time the " fatty liver " shows up,

they already have had, or end up having, their GBs removed. Why do

these findings also going hand in hand with so many other problems,

including heart disease? Why is this cholesterol, something which is

also naturally produced by our own bodies, proving so hard to digest

by so many people? Is this possibly an epidemic and are we are

seeing a new problem? Does it have to do with how we are eating and

living nowadays that is different than previous generations?...or is

this something that has always been a problem...but we are just

getting better at diagnosing it now? What can we do to prevent these

kinds of problems with our GB/livers that wouldn't require the

removal of the GB? (you would die if they tried removing the " fatty "

liver). If diet is the key factor here, are we, as a society, ready

to make the changes needed to prevent this problem in the future?

It is my belief, that even if a doctor knows of the alternative means

to help the GB, they are reluctant to provide it to their patients

for several reasons. 1) they risk their license if they do not

follow standard protocol... 2) It is not as profitable to follow

alternative means...3) I believe they are right, the problem will

keep coming back if changes are not done, by the patient, to prevent

reoccurrence.

Now onto what I have learned in trying to inform myself, a

vegetarian, about my own problem with this issue.

To anyone on this list...Please feel free to correct me if I am

incorrect in any thing I put down here in response to this. I am

only speaking from what I have been able to learn so far...and am

always open to learning more, and either adding to ...or adjusting my

learning process.

It would be more appropriate to call the stones that most pass with

the Liver/GB flushes... " cholesterol stones " ...since that is most

accurately reflects what most are comprised of.

There is also a distinction often made to liver stones and GB

stones. Liver stones, from what I can tell, seem to either form in

the liver when the GB has already backed up to capacity and, for

whatever reason, is not longer empting out....or they could result

from cholesterol that the liver is unable to digest properly, hence

forming into soft stones that can drop down into the GB, or lodge in

the liver if the GB is failing to work properly...or there is a third

possibility I sometimes wonder about...they could be created by the

liver as a defense mechanism to something present in the liver that

the body is trying to protect you from.

Liver stones are never the hardened kind and contain only cholesterol

and bile. The amount of green these soft stones have, depends on how

much bile has been absorbed by the stone.

GB bladder stones are stones that are formed in the GB. From what I

have learned, all hardened stones are GB stones, (though it is not

safe to conclude that all soft stones are formed in the liver) and

these stones can contain more than just bile and cholesterol. When a

doctor tells you have GB stones, they are usually referring to

hardened stones. There are rare occasions where a hardened stone can

be found in the liver duct near the GB area....this is usually

because the stone moved to that area, most likely because the GB is

already filled to capacity with other stones.

The confusion about where these stones are formed often result from

this. Are the GB stones originally liver stones that dropped down

into the GB? or are they formed from the liquid cholesterol that is

already there? Personally, I believe both can occur. If a hardened

stone contains more than just bile and cholesterol, it most likely

formed in the GB. If a hardened stone is comprised of only

cholesterol and bile, it is possible it came from the liver, and with

time hardened while in the GB.

> This morning I went for a second opinion to another doctor and he

> told me that the shape shouldn't matter, the GB doesn't work

because

> I got gallstones (it doesn't make too much sense too me ... again I

> never had prblems before) He of course suggested me to have the

> surgery ... Well I want to avoid the surgery at any cost if is

> possible so please if you can make some lights to the gallstones

and

> GB issues let me know. Where can I find more and good info about

GB,

> diet related to it or a good doctor?

If the GB doesn't work, and you know you already have stones, then it

would be safe to conclude that, if you decide to do the flush, you

would fail to produce few, if any stones, during your flush.

Why? ..because the GB must contract to expel the stones...if it fails

to contract...no stones will come out.

>

> What I can say about my case is that I was in a low carb and high

> fat diet from May (kind of an Atkins diet) that's why I guess I got

> those problems. Is now 9 days I'm back in a normal low fat diet and

> I didn't have problems so far.

On the raw food diet that I have been doing since I started

this " journey " people are often shocked at the quantity of fat (and

food) I eat in my diet, including fat from goat's milk....and not

get " fat " ( I lost about 25 pounds doing the first 8 flushes in about

3 months and about another 20 pounds with the raw food diet since

then)....but most of the fat I eat is raw (not counting the

occasional slip ups I sometimes have). I have done several cleanses

since then...and only a small quantity of pebble sized stones are

passed. The quantity could easily be accounted for by the number of

times I have consumed heated oils and dairy.

In the previous two weeks I got 5

> very painful colics, but my gallstones seem to be small.

Then you passed some stones? without a flush? did they just " fall "

out? Was the GB so full they got " pushed " out? If you GB is so

full, why the odd figure 8 shape? If they didn't get pushed out, how

could they have passed through your system if your GB is not working

at all?

> My GB is now of course irritated how do I know if I'm in a risk of

> infection, should I checked it out once in a while, can and should

I

> perform the liver cleansing or could be dangerous?

Did your doctor seem to think you might have an infection? Are you

showing any kind of symptoms that indicates you might have an

infection? i.e. feverish, swelling, tissue sensitivity to touch,

especially in the GB area, elevated while blood count? Is the doctor

recommending any possible treatment for infection?

Infection is a whole other issue and requires some careful thinking

on your part....because both surgery and cleansing options could

present more complications with your overall and wellbeing than when

infection is not present. YOU would have to do your research and

decide how you wish to proceed.

The odd shaped GB could be a " strangulation " effect. if that is the

case, the tissue of part the GB would not be getting enough blood

flow. This would then be like putting a sting around your

finger...with time the finger will die off, and if that happens... if

not removed, infection...and then gangrene could set in.

I have personally know some people with this particular problem their

GBs. They have continued to have problems with their health, even

after the GB has been removed...but if they had not removed the GB,

when it got to that point, the gangrene would have eventually killed

them. I would be very persistent with my doctor to find out if this

a possibility. It is not something to take lightly, because it can,

with time, become life threatening.

On the other hand, if it is not an infection, then I would look into

trying the flushes. Like I had mentioned in my previous post. When

I went in with constant pain in my GB region (yes, it was constant

for me) I did have signs of a possible infection - or somthing

causing chronic inflammation in my body...but blood test and my

ultrasound tests were normal. Nothing appeared to be wrong with my

GB, or at least, there were no signs of an acute infection. My

doctor choose to treat my condition as an UA or kidney

infection....but treatment (Antibiotics) failed to produce results.

Armed with that knowledge, I went ahead and decided to try flushes.

My GB was not the most responsive GB at first, in fact it was

downright discouraging how unresponsive it was for the first 4

flushes. I was persistent though, so with no real knowledge if

anyone had done this, I decided to do the flushes 2 night in a row

to see if the extra oil would stimulate the GB enough to get it to

contract and flush. It was fortunate that " jumpstart " worked for

me. Now my GB, with the flushes, responds very quickly, and I find

that everything from the flush cleans out of my system within 12

hours.

I hope this helps you in making your choices on how best to help your

body.

Blessings,

Christa