confused and dazed

[Guest guest]

Hi all.

Have been reading this list for some time, learning, but not written before.

feels awkward, but guess I will just jump right in with my history:

I AM over forty-fair-fertile-female-fat; about 40# overweight.

history of gallbladder/liver symptoms...

After several excrutiating episodes of U/R quad pain over several months, I

had an attack that required Bentyl IM to slow down.

After strong influence of GI doc, declined U/S and surgery.......started

liver flush and modifying my diet.

Four Flushes have met with varying degrees of success in abating symptoms

of discomfort/pain/fullness in U/R quad and producing stones. First most

effective, Last a month ago least effective. Resulted in the current state

of liver feeling " swollen " almost daily. Decided to cease flushing and work

on strenghtening and detoxifying liver.

Diet not " perfect " but have made good changes.

Cut out " snack food " , most dairy, processed foods and have limited my

servings to modest sizes......

Eating raw is a real challenge.....many days only 25% of my diet is raw,

always some home grown sprouts; some days I manage 75% raw.

Mostly vegetables/fruits, sprouts and grains; with fish, dairy about twice

a month (6ozyogurt or 3ozblue cheese on salad), red meat about once a

month--high quality, lean; and eggs/Chicken about once a week. All prepared

simply, without added fat. 7-10 servings of soy per week. Am an

accomplished cook with an ehtnicly varied repertiore of dishes and finding

it VERY Tough to do 75% raw, not enough energy to prepare dishes that I

need to " learn " ---plus " cooking " for family of hardworking husband and 2

adult sons nightly has become a 'chore' rather than fun, most nights.

Breakfast remains a struggle to eat daily, mostly due to no appetite at

that time of day. When I do manage it, usually piece of fruit and sprouted

almonds or GoLean cereal with dried fruit/sprouted almonds and soy milk.

Drinking Celestial Seasonings detox tea almost daily (to replace coffee),

dandelion root/fennel tea several times a week; lots of plain water,

although most days do not make my goal of 8/10oz glasses. Drinking coffee

about twice a week; soda about once a month. Limiting sugar dramatically;

two cookies every time my sweet husband opens a new box of Oreos (couple

time a week)---just love that fresh taste. Generally, have dates or other

fresh/dried fruit as sweet treat.

Digestion and elimination seem to be working well.....digestive distress

with occassional eating of wheat or some other cooked food; elimation is

" light and fluffy " as my colonic friend says.

Energy VERY low, both physical and mental---with occassional bursts of a

few hours of energy to help me stay sane. Exercising seems out of the

question since I am so tired, work is a necessity and it uses up most of my

energy.....just writing this post is tiring, have had to rest in between

spells of writing---took well over an hour to write.

Every day is a wonder whether I will have disturbing feelings that my liver

is " swollen " . Some days I manage hours without this feeling and am so

grateful.

Supplement list-daily unless otherwise noted: schizandra from planetary

herbology; LVR with milk thistle and other liver support herbs; digestive

enzymes from RAinbow LIght; Flax/boarge/O3; SamE 400mg; garlic;

glucoasmine/chondrotin; melatonin; BComplex several times a week;

Am feeling overwhelmed and confused. Have gathered all of the herbs to do

parasite cleanse, but am hesitant to do so while feeling so diminshed.

As I review this post, it seems really long........sorry for that. I guess

what I am hoping for is some support to keep going and not worry. Input on

my efforts, suggestions for improving and any experiences would be greatly

appreciated. Thanking you all for taking the time to put your selves and

your experiences out here for us all to learn.

Sincerely,

midge in the florida keys

[Guest guest]

Hi Midge, You sound like you're already doing a lot of things

right. We all had to get started crawling before we could walk or

run, but you seem fairly far along already. That's very curious

that you have such low energy when you are taking so much for your

liver. A couple of possibilities come to mind.

1)You may be very toxic with past/present exposure to chemicals or

other poisons. Do you have " silver " amalgam fillings or any root

canals? These are a common poison, and some people are more

sensitive to them than others. Occupational exposure depending on

where you've worked or lived could cause your problem.

2) Another possibility is that you are on a low meat diet, but are a

type O blood type. What blood type are you? Type O's who try a low

meat diet do very badly, whereas type A's seem to do very well as

almost vegetarians. My wife is a good example. Before we learned

better, we tried cutting out most meat from our diet, and she was

anemic and pale untill she started eating more meat. There's lots

of info out there on the other side of the story about this topic,

and it usually ends up in an almost religion and politic type

discussion with tempers flairing and deep seated beliefs coming to

the surface. When this has happened on the list before, the

moderation had to kick in to settle it down until we got back to

gallstone and liver flushing discussions. I don't want that, but

the facts are the facts. Some people try the low meat diet and do

very badly on it. When they add meat, even red meat, back into

their diet they do much better. Incidently, the less cooked the

better as long as you have a good source of pure meat.

None of this may have helped, but some shots in the dark, anyway

Vince

--- In gallstones , " midge Jolly " <midgewife@e...>

wrote:

> Hi all.

> Have been reading this list for some time, learning, but not

written before.

> feels awkward, but guess I will just jump right in with my history:

>

> I AM over forty-fair-fertile-female-fat; about 40# overweight.

>

> history of gallbladder/liver symptoms...

> After several excrutiating episodes of U/R quad pain over several

months, I

> had an attack that required Bentyl IM to slow down.

> After strong influence of GI doc, declined U/S and

surgery.......started

> liver flush and modifying my diet.

>

> Four Flushes have met with varying degrees of success in abating

symptoms

> of discomfort/pain/fullness in U/R quad and producing stones.

First most

> effective, Last a month ago least effective. Resulted in the

current state

> of liver feeling " swollen " almost daily. Decided to cease flushing

and work

> on strenghtening and detoxifying liver.

>

> Diet not " perfect " but have made good changes.

> Cut out " snack food " , most dairy, processed foods and have limited

my

> servings to modest sizes......

> Eating raw is a real challenge.....many days only 25% of my diet

is raw,

> always some home grown sprouts; some days I manage 75% raw.

> Mostly vegetables/fruits, sprouts and grains; with fish, dairy

about twice

> a month (6ozyogurt or 3ozblue cheese on salad), red meat about

once a

> month--high quality, lean; and eggs/Chicken about once a week. All

prepared

> simply, without added fat. 7-10 servings of soy per week. Am an

> accomplished cook with an ehtnicly varied repertiore of dishes and

finding

> it VERY Tough to do 75% raw, not enough energy to prepare dishes

that I

> need to " learn " ---plus " cooking " for family of hardworking husband

and 2

> adult sons nightly has become a 'chore' rather than fun, most

nights.

> Breakfast remains a struggle to eat daily, mostly due to no

appetite at

> that time of day. When I do manage it, usually piece of fruit and

sprouted

> almonds or GoLean cereal with dried fruit/sprouted almonds and soy

milk.

>

> Drinking Celestial Seasonings detox tea almost daily (to replace

coffee),

> dandelion root/fennel tea several times a week; lots of plain

water,

> although most days do not make my goal of 8/10oz glasses. Drinking

coffee

> about twice a week; soda about once a month. Limiting sugar

dramatically;

> two cookies every time my sweet husband opens a new box of Oreos

(couple

> time a week)---just love that fresh taste. Generally, have dates

or other

> fresh/dried fruit as sweet treat.

>

> Digestion and elimination seem to be working well.....digestive

distress

> with occassional eating of wheat or some other cooked food;

elimation is

> " light and fluffy " as my colonic friend says.

>

> Energy VERY low, both physical and mental---with occassional

bursts of a

> few hours of energy to help me stay sane. Exercising seems out of

the

> question since I am so tired, work is a necessity and it uses up

most of my

> energy.....just writing this post is tiring, have had to rest in

between

> spells of writing---took well over an hour to write.

>

> Every day is a wonder whether I will have disturbing feelings that

my liver

> is " swollen " . Some days I manage hours without this feeling and am

so

> grateful.

>

> Supplement list-daily unless otherwise noted: schizandra from

planetary

> herbology; LVR with milk thistle and other liver support herbs;

digestive

> enzymes from RAinbow LIght; Flax/boarge/O3; SamE 400mg; garlic;

> glucoasmine/chondrotin; melatonin; BComplex several times a week;

>

> Am feeling overwhelmed and confused. Have gathered all of the

herbs to do

> parasite cleanse, but am hesitant to do so while feeling so

diminshed.

>

> As I review this post, it seems really long........sorry for that.

I guess

> what I am hoping for is some support to keep going and not worry.

Input on

> my efforts, suggestions for improving and any experiences would be

greatly

> appreciated. Thanking you all for taking the time to put your

selves and

> your experiences out here for us all to learn.

>

> Sincerely,

> midge in the florida keys

[Guest guest]

Dear Midge,

I'm glad that the bentyl worked to help to ease your pain. I'm

curious - did your doctor prescibe this on his own or did you

suggest it. (many docs use demerol, but bentyl is the drug of

choice to combat the spasmodic nature of a GB attack)

Flushing is putting yourself through quite a physical episode,

therefore you will get a feeling of fullnes in U/R quad. Perhaps

give yourself more time between flushes to help the GB/liver to

stabalize more. -or as you have done, discontinue flushing for a

while.

I see that you use a supplement with milk thistle and other liver

support herbs; digestive enzymes, Flax/boarge/O3, but there are

more " liver specific things that you can do. Dale has written an

excellent post re: his regimin, so try the archives for it. (I will

post again if I find a direct link for you)

Try beets - those are good to stimulate good bile. Lecithin will

also help to thin the bile. This may help you to have less of

that " swollen " feeling. You'll find more about diet for

gallstones/GB/Liver in the files and links of the gallstones group

home page.

Drink daily, first thing in the AM juice of 1/2 lemon (or a whole

key lime in warm water. Wait for 1/2 hour before eating. This

is beneficial for liver/GB.

How about trying to have a half day juice fast once a week? Use

beets, lemons, celery/parsley, garlic for breakfast and lunch juice

and have apple or grapefruit juice for in between times. Then have

a regular (but light) meal for dinner.

Drink as much liquids as you can every day to flush toxins from your

system. Exercise even if you're tired. Start by doing very small

amounts every day - say five minutes - or whatever you can handle.

But do it every day. This will build stamina.

Walking is a good exercise. It is both weight bearing and aerobic,

so it combines the two essentials into one. Swimming is also a

great one (I'm sure that you must have opportunities in the Keys -

many hotels have swimming pools). Just use goggles if you don't

like chlorine in the water.

Remember, take each thing a step at a time and slowly increase what

you're able to do and you will achieve wonders.

~Suzanne

PS- I'm not sure, but light and fluffy BM's may indicate not proper

absorbtion of nutrients. - perhaps this is why the tiredness.

Juicung should be easy for your body to absorb nutrients.

[Guest guest]

>>>Four Flushes have met with varying degrees of success in abating symptoms of

discomfort/pain/fullness in U/R quad and producing stones. First most effective,

Last a month ago least effective. Resulted in the current state of liver feeling

" swollen " almost daily. Decided to cease flushing and work on strenghtening and

detoxifying liver.<<<

Flushes do irritate your liver. The gently, gently approach for awhile is a good

idea. I have discovered through being forced to avoid flushes for a while (I am

33w pregnant and flushes cause me premature labour) that my body is painlessly

eliminating stones on it's own with just me doing a mini flush every day as part

of my diet)

Are you taking enough Milk Thistle? And good fats? i.e flaxseed oil? Good fats

are vital to liver health.

>>>elimation is " light and fluffy " <<<

This indicates fats are not being digested. Good fats bind to the bad fats and

cause them to be eliminated.

Blessings

Mama.