sleep aids

[Guest guest]

Phil:

We use Baldrian (a valerian root extract) from Vitaminerals. You can get

it from Millie Webb, their Oregon rep. Her number is 1-800-248-8096.

She's in Milwaukie, and is a great supporter of the profession.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

Salem, Oregon

[Guest guest]

Go to WWW.SLEEPRELEASE.COM, the best natural product that I have ever found,

,,Dan Beeson

sleep aids

> Listmates,

>

> I'm looking for effective sleep herb combinations, etc. for my pts. Have

> any favorites, if so, why? Just getting tired of sending folks out with

> separate herbs and melatonine, and need a good quality, synergistic blend.

>

> W. Snell, D.C.

> 127-G NE 102nd Avenue

> Portland, OR 97220

> Ph. 503-253-0827

> Fax 503-253-4760

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

,

Formula 303 from DC Labs works great -- a combo of valerian, passion

flower, and magnesium.

Terry Petty, D.C.

sleep aids

Listmates,

I'm looking for effective sleep herb combinations, etc. for my pts.

Have

any favorites, if so, why? Just getting tired of sending folks out with

separate herbs and melatonine, and need a good quality, synergistic

blend.

W. Snell, D.C.

127-G NE 102nd Avenue

Portland, OR 97220

Ph. 503-253-0827

Fax 503-253-4760

[Guest guest]

,

Try " Calms Forte " . You can get it in the Fred Meyer nutritional

center. It is camomile pills. They work great!! And they are cheap!!

Ironically, it was my neurologist who told me about them!!

Matt Terreri, DC

sleep aids

> Listmates,

>

> I'm looking for effective sleep herb combinations, etc. for my pts. Have

> any favorites, if so, why? Just getting tired of sending folks out with

> separate herbs and melatonine, and need a good quality, synergistic blend.

>

> W. Snell, D.C.

> 127-G NE 102nd Avenue

> Portland, OR 97220

> Ph. 503-253-0827

> Fax 503-253-4760

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan:

What are the ingredients? I can oreder any Chinese herbs and no

combination of them cost over $30, which is much less than those on this

site. Since there is little new under the sun it is typically going to

be a combination of zizyphus and hoelen herbs with possibly cnidium,

gentiana, licorice, maybe dragon's teeth, poria, and anemarrhena.

Zizyphus is the most expensive of these and is a natural tranquilizer

that can work well not only for insomnia but for hot flashes.

Willard Bertrand, D.C., C.C.N., D.A.B.C.N.

Re: sleep aids

Go to WWW.SLEEPRELEASE.COM, the best natural product that I have ever

found,

,,Dan Beeson

sleep aids

> Listmates,

>

> I'm looking for effective sleep herb combinations, etc. for my pts.

Have

> any favorites, if so, why? Just getting tired of sending folks out

with

> separate herbs and melatonine, and need a good quality, synergistic

blend.

>

> W. Snell, D.C.

> 127-G NE 102nd Avenue

> Portland, OR 97220

> Ph. 503-253-0827

> Fax 503-253-4760

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without

his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I took Alluna for a while to help me get to sleep, and it worked pretty

well. I think it has Valerian and Hops in it. But then my doctor told me not

to take Valerian, and she thinks it can be toxic taken too often and that it

might " interfere " with absorption of the Lexapro. But then, she told me not to

drink on Lexapro either, and I still do (but not all that much). Have you ever

tried Ambien? It really works, but is quite addictive. I try to take it only

when I am really desperate to sleep, and two 5 mg pills (i.e., 10 mgs) will

guarantee 6 hours sleep and I wake up feeling VERY refreshed.

--Diane

Re: Trazodone .....Experiences?

I was prescribed trazodone for sleeplessness, 50 mg. I tried it a few times and

it did

nothing. Didn't make me sleepy, or sleep longer, or sleep deeper. Then again,

it also

didn't make me groggy in the morning. I found it odd that the trazodone didn't

work

since xanax and lex both knock me out. To deal with insomnia, Benadryl works

pretty well for me. You can find the same ingredients in some of the otc sleep

aids,

but the generic Benadryl seems to be the cheap route.

[Guest guest]

Well, I began Trazodone last night, beginning at 50mg. It made me

very drowsey and I fell out quickly, however I still woke up to

early (4:30am)with maybe 4.5 hrs sleep...felt a little hung over but

I shall give it a chance. From what I am told, as we get a bit

older, the sleep problems occur more often (I am 56). I also

switched over from Valium to Klonopin for my anxiety (,5mg x2 per

day)The valium was pooping out so I figured I would try the Klonopin

In my own case, a lot has to do with anxiety which gets me up too

early anyway. Interestingly while discussing SSRI's with my PDoc

yesterday, he actually admitted that SSRI's can cause sleep trouble

with some people (1st time he admitted anything like this)

I sure wish there were a better way!

Jeff

> Yeah, I took Alluna for a while to help me get to sleep, and it

worked pretty well. I think it has Valerian and Hops in it. But

then my doctor told me not to take Valerian, and she thinks it can

be toxic taken too often and that it might " interfere " with

absorption of the Lexapro. But then, she told me not to drink on

Lexapro either, and I still do (but not all that much). Have you

ever tried Ambien? It really works, but is quite addictive. I try

to take it only when I am really desperate to sleep, and two 5 mg

pills (i.e., 10 mgs) will guarantee 6 hours sleep and I wake up

feeling VERY refreshed.

>

> --Diane

>

> Re: Trazodone .....Experiences?

>

> I was prescribed trazodone for sleeplessness, 50 mg. I tried it a

few times and it did

> nothing. Didn't make me sleepy, or sleep longer, or sleep

deeper. Then again, it also

> didn't make me groggy in the morning. I found it odd that the

trazodone didn't work

> since xanax and lex both knock me out. To deal with insomnia,

Benadryl works

> pretty well for me. You can find the same ingredients in some of

the otc sleep aids,

> but the generic Benadryl seems to be the cheap route.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I had trouble getting to sleep last night, so took two Alluna (OTC

sleep aid, with Valerian and Hops). Within 45 minutes (the stuff takes a little

bit of time to kick in), I was fast asleep. Got 6.5 hours sleep, and feel very

refreshed today. Supposedly, Valerian can be toxic, but I think that's if you

take it in large amounts every day. With all sleep aids, I try NOT to take them

every day (as I find one builds up a resistance to them quite quickly; at least

in my case).

--Diane

Re: Trazodone .....Experiences?

>

> I was prescribed trazodone for sleeplessness, 50 mg. I tried it a

few times and it did

> nothing. Didn't make me sleepy, or sleep longer, or sleep

deeper. Then again, it also

> didn't make me groggy in the morning. I found it odd that the

trazodone didn't work

> since xanax and lex both knock me out. To deal with insomnia,

Benadryl works

> pretty well for me. You can find the same ingredients in some of

the otc sleep aids,

> but the generic Benadryl seems to be the cheap route.

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

I have also tried Valarian but it did nothing for me at all. I had

no idea it could be toxic but I guess that is true of anything you

take too much of. I am pretty sure my sleep trouble (staying asleep)

is mostly due to my increased anxiety.....ugggh.

Regards

jeff

> > Yeah, I took Alluna for a while to help me get to sleep, and it

> worked pretty well. I think it has Valerian and Hops in it. But

> then my doctor told me not to take Valerian, and she thinks it can

> be toxic taken too often and that it might " interfere " with

> absorption of the Lexapro. But then, she told me not to drink on

> Lexapro either, and I still do (but not all that much). Have you

> ever tried Ambien? It really works, but is quite addictive. I

try

> to take it only when I am really desperate to sleep, and two 5 mg

> pills (i.e., 10 mgs) will guarantee 6 hours sleep and I wake up

> feeling VERY refreshed.

> >

> > --Diane

> >

> > Re: Trazodone .....Experiences?

> >

> > I was prescribed trazodone for sleeplessness, 50 mg. I tried it

a

> few times and it did

> > nothing. Didn't make me sleepy, or sleep longer, or sleep

> deeper. Then again, it also

> > didn't make me groggy in the morning. I found it odd that the

> trazodone didn't work

> > since xanax and lex both knock me out. To deal with insomnia,

> Benadryl works

> > pretty well for me. You can find the same ingredients in some

of

> the otc sleep aids,

> > but the generic Benadryl seems to be the cheap route.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you considered trying some mental & /or physical exercises, to help ease

your anxiety? I find long walks help a lot, particularly in a beautiful,

natural setting. I felt great for about two hours yesterday after a brisk 45

minute walk along the Carquinez Straits (an inlet off the San Francisco Bay that

leads eventually to the Delta and the Sacramento River). Exercise is a great,

natural stress reliever, I find (*if* you can find a setting to do it in that's

peaceful). Also, I always sleep better at night when I've had at least an hour

of exercise a day. I should have walked for longer than 45 mins., coz my body

wasn't really tired out, totally, when I went to bed last night (which is why I

had trouble falling asleep).

--Diane

Re: Sleep aids

Hi Diane:

I have also tried Valarian but it did nothing for me at all. I had

no idea it could be toxic but I guess that is true of anything you

take too much of. I am pretty sure my sleep trouble (staying asleep)

is mostly due to my increased anxiety.....ugggh.

Regards

jeff

> Actually, I had trouble getting to sleep last night, so took two

Alluna (OTC sleep aid, with Valerian and Hops). Within 45 minutes

(the stuff takes a little bit of time to kick in), I was fast

asleep. Got 6.5 hours sleep, and feel very refreshed today.

Supposedly, Valerian can be toxic, but I think that's if you take it

in large amounts every day. With all sleep aids, I try NOT to take

them every day (as I find one builds up a resistance to them quite

quickly; at least in my case).

[Guest guest]

yep...agreed

It has been in the high 90's here and it is not fun being outside

during the day. I live where there are some great places to walk

around even if you have to drive a few miles to get to them. I do

walk a bit in the evenings but I am pretty tightly wound right

now...lots going wrong in life for me at present!

Unfortunately there seem to be only 2 routes...

1) Take Meds

2) live with it!

Both are not pleasant.

Thanks for the advice Diane.

Jeff

> > Actually, I had trouble getting to sleep last night, so took two

> Alluna (OTC sleep aid, with Valerian and Hops). Within 45 minutes

> (the stuff takes a little bit of time to kick in), I was fast

> asleep. Got 6.5 hours sleep, and feel very refreshed today.

> Supposedly, Valerian can be toxic, but I think that's if you take

it

> in large amounts every day. With all sleep aids, I try NOT to

take

> them every day (as I find one builds up a resistance to them quite

> quickly; at least in my case).

[Guest guest]

I Have tried Tryptophan & it does nothing.

Maybe I can try try a Really high dosage to see if that helps me sleep

through the night.

What is the highest dosage anyone else has tried & does it really help you

sleep through the night?

I sometimes only can sleep in the day time or at certain hours & it changes

all the time. I am lucky to get 1 to 3 hours sleep without waking.

[Guest guest]

I would suggest you try two ways; a big dose to start, or a second dose when you

awaken. Do you awaken w. a startle? Do you eat enough protein? When do you eat

it?

I can't recall how much my friend said she used-it was a lot. I only need one. I

also take Calcium and Magnesium at bed time.

I believe, now that I think of it, that the b12 I take gives me some help

getting thru the day w. out sleeping, so I am more likely to sleep at night.

Staying awake during the day is part of the solution. I use all sorts of stuff

to accomplish that, the main one being another amino acid, DL-phenylalanine. It

cn make me jittery but I have learned how to use it so it doesn't.

Sometimes I only sleep 3 hrs, but usually at least five. Sometimes I nap,

sometimes not. I have gotten good at turning over and going back to sleep. I

taught myself to do that. I don't worry as much as I used to.

Hope you find a way. Keep trying.

Adrienne

Re: Re: sleep aids

I Have tried Tryptophan & it does nothing.

Maybe I can try try a Really high dosage to see if that helps me sleep

through the night.

What is the highest dosage anyone else has tried & does it really help you

sleep through the night?

I sometimes only can sleep in the day time or at certain hours & it changes

all the time. I am lucky to get 1 to 3 hours sleep without waking.

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your response to my desperate need to find some natural

help with sleep aids.

I do take a lot of Mag Glyc & Cal glyc & have tried melatonin & 5-htp &

valerian etc. Been trying some Dr. Teiltebaum's, Enzymatic Sleep formula. Helps

me feel a little more more drowsy & get back to sleep when I wake up if I

take 3 of them, but I am drowsy for a long time the next day also & they are

expensive.

It sounds like I will just have to keep adjusting & experimenting with

different combos & dosages to see what works for me no matter how long it

takes.

I cannot tolerate strong drugs like Doxipin or Neurontin or Gabitril

My last Dr. ( Gordon) kept suggesting I try low dose estradiol or

progesterone for a sleep aid , even though I told him it just messes up my

menopausal symptoms even worse.

He also had me try Xyrem which was horrible, expensive & made me sick & did

not help at all.

My sleep schedule has been whacked out since I got this illness 22 yrs ago.

I cannot force my self to sleep at night or at any time. I just have to do

what my body needs. If I try to force myself to stay awake when my body needs

to sleep, I will lose the few functional hours of the day I have & suffer in

pain & nausea etc in a nonfunctionable state anyway. If I try to sleep in the

night, my body will be wide awake & I lose the few hours of energy &

functionable time I have.

So I cannot make appts or know when I will be awake or how I will be

feeling at any time. My body tends to want to be wide awake in the middle of the

night a lot of the times. But it constantly changes, So I have no schedule at

all. Makes it difficult to know when to take pills or meds in morning or aft or

eve when I never know when that will be.

As for shots, I have tried everything & I makes sure there are no

preservatives in it nor hitting wrong spot. I think I am just too sick & in too

much

pain & my neuropathy makes me super sensitive I guess,. Last experience was

very scary. I cannot tolerate any IM shots at all ever.

Cannot even get my blood pressure done by a cuff because it is too

painful from my Fibro. I use the writst cuffs which are not as accurate.

Dr. says he does not think Fibro can get this bad. But I am sure others

have had Fibro really severely. But then again I guess Fibro is a catch all

term

for muscle pain stiffness & joints & Lyme & many others things could also

cause that.

C.J. In Northern CA , S.F. Bay area

[Guest guest]

CJ --

Thanks for putting your location...I hope that I remember!!

Your sleep problems sound JUST like mine, exactly! Sometimes I get a little

sleep if I take 1/2 tablet of generic Benadryl (12.5 mg). Sometimes I take

Ambien (5 mg).

Some nights when I take those low doses I end up sleeping thru the next day,

sometimes I still don't fall asleep. I don't usually feel as drowsy or hung

over from the Benadryl. It seems like my sleep schedule is about every 3rd

day. I think that's because I'm so exhausted by day 3 that I can finally fall

asleep. And, like you said - why waste the few hours that I can finally do

something - TRYING - to sleep.

But it really wrecks havoc trying to do stuff like see doctors, and go places

during " business hours " . I usually manage by using email and sending faxes

instead of make phone calls. But having to get somewhere (out of the house)

during the day? Practically impossible. Especially since I'm pretty much

bedbound 24/7.

I also have a dx of sleep apnea, but can't tolerate the CPAP. I sleep pretty

much sitting almost straight up. I'm hoping to try the Recup sometime soon

because of all the good reports and because my legs especially are so painful -

even though I take Methadone (6x) & sometimes Norco 10/325 for pain 24/7.

(If your pain seems TOO severe for FMS have you ever been dx'd with myofascial

pain? I have both.

Kendra

NW Illinois since 6/04 (formerly Houston, TX - 20+ yrs)

In a message dated 6/26/2005 5:51:37 PM Central Daylight Time,

Cbuf1920@... writes:

> Thank you all for your response to my desperate need to find some natural

> help with sleep aids.

> I do take a lot of Mag Glyc & Cal glyc & have tried melatonin & 5-htp &

> valerian etc. Been trying some Dr. Teiltebaum's, Enzymatic Sleep formula.

> Helps

> me feel a little more more drowsy & get back to sleep when I wake up if I

> take 3 of them, but I am drowsy for a long time the next day also & they

> are

> expensive.

> It sounds like I will just have to keep adjusting & experimenting with

> different combos & dosages to see what works for me no matter how long it

> takes.

> I cannot tolerate strong drugs like Doxipin or Neurontin or Gabitril

> My last Dr. ( Gordon) kept suggesting I try low dose estradiol or

> progesterone for a sleep aid , even though I told him it just messes up my

> menopausal symptoms even worse.

> He also had me try Xyrem which was horrible, expensive & made me sick & did

>

> not help at all.

> My sleep schedule has been whacked out since I got this illness 22 yrs ago.

>

> I cannot force my self to sleep at night or at any time. I just have to do

> what my body needs. If I try to force myself to stay awake when my body

> needs

> to sleep, I will lose the few functional hours of the day I have & suffer in

>

> pain & nausea etc in a nonfunctionable state anyway. If I try to sleep in

> the

> night, my body will be wide awake & I lose the few hours of energy &

> functionable time I have.

> So I cannot make appts or know when I will be awake or how I will be

> feeling at any time. My body tends to want to be wide awake in the middle of

> the

> night a lot of the times. But it constantly changes, So I have no schedule

> at

> all. Makes it difficult to know when to take pills or meds in morning or aft

> or

> eve when I never know when that will be.

> As for shots, I have tried everything & I makes sure there are no

> preservatives in it nor hitting wrong spot. I think I am just too sick & in

> too much

> pain & my neuropathy makes me super sensitive I guess,. Last experience was

>

> very scary. I cannot tolerate any IM shots at all ever.

> Cannot even get my blood pressure done by a cuff because it is too

> painful from my Fibro. I use the writst cuffs which are not as accurate.

> Dr. says he does not think Fibro can get this bad. But I am sure others

> have had Fibro really severely. But then again I guess Fibro is a catch all

> term

> for muscle pain stiffness & joints & Lyme & many others things could also

> cause that.

>

> C.J. In Northern CA , S.F. Bay area

[Guest guest]

Splitting up the doses seems to help boost serotonin more than taking it

all at one time. Try 2000 mg, 30 minutes before bed and 2000 mg

mid-afternoon. Also avoid all bright light for 30 minutes before bed.

Blake

Cbuf1920@... wrote:

> I Have tried Tryptophan & it does nothing.

> Maybe I can try try a Really high dosage to see if that helps me sleep

> through the night.

> What is the highest dosage anyone else has tried & does it really

> help you

> sleep through the night?

> I sometimes only can sleep in the day time or at certain hours & it

> changes

> all the time. I am lucky to get 1 to 3 hours sleep without waking.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm DMSO for Vit/min absorption through the skin.

Very interesting idea. Thanks Adrienne

I may check it out & have sent it to a friend who has extreme difficulty

swallowing or taking pills etc.

I am taking sublingual methylcobalamin 4 of the 5,000 mcg a night. It

helps a little with the pain. But I know rest & decent sleep & diet play a

big part in it also.

Re: shots I have tried a lot of different kinds of IM shots &

different solutions etc over many years. I am not able to tolerate them.

As I said, I get one IV a week & that is all I can handle of needles & I

get a Glutithione push & Gamma Globulin & that makes a big difference in my

overall health.

C.J. N. CA SF Bay Area

[Guest guest]

Hi C.J.

I've been following your thread - so sorry you've had such a profound

and long-lasting setback.

Your last post is reminding me of a phase I went through for a few

years, when I simply Could Not sleep at night. If I went to bed

before my body said to it was like torture, lying awake for hours on

end, getting more and more tired, maybe ending up with no sleep at

all. Nothing I took affected it. I was told to keep better hours, not

allow sleep in the daytime, etc.

Finally I gave up. Acknowledged that my body clock was all wrong, and

let it be. Went to bed at 5-6am and slept off-and-on til afternoon.

After many months it gradually started shifting toward " normal " . But

I observed that any extra stress or fatigue, any setback, would shift

me again into vampire hours. If I were in a relapse as bad as yours

I'd be right back on the other side of the clock again.

I do take 20mg melatonin each night. It helps: if I don't forget and

miss a day; and if the body lets me go to bed early enough. If I

force bedtime " too early " in order to get the melatonin benefit,

there may be very little sleep. Tricky. Better than nothing, but the

most helpful thing for me is still to let the body call bedtime.

It sounds like you are (perhaps reluctantly) surrendering. Against

medical opinion, I say Bravo! Your body couldn't be any clearer about

what it doesn't want - normal bedtime.

Take care. -Lynn

[Guest guest]

Re shots; I notice that if I do my b12 regularly, I feel NO pain, not even the

prick. If I let it slide, when I return it hurts again. CAn you do b12

subcutaneously? I think you are right about it being neuropathic pain. I had

that pain in my feet and the b12 cured it.

When you say force yourself to stay awake, I suppose you mean by any means? I

was not suggesting doing it indefinitely.

I have not become a irregular as you, but enough so that I know what you are

talking about.

Yes, keep trying. There has to be a way for you to suffer less.

I know it doesn't help everyone, but I regard b12 as one of the most potentially

greatest helps for many things- anything having to do w. the nervous system,

especially. Sure is one of the best things that has happened to me since I got

sick. So:

Here below is an article (condensed) from my files on a way to get b12 into the

body w.out shots.

Adrienne

Issue 97

April 18, 1999

Optimal Wellness Health News

DMSO and Vitamin B12

by Dr. Gregg

There have been a number of publications reporting studies showing that

breathing nitrous oxide may destroy a person's vitamin B12. This has been

reported not only in journal articles, but has finally been incorporated in the

latest books on nutritional supplements as well as books on biochemistry. What

first came to my mind was the use of this gas by dentists.

Nitrous oxide, often called " laughing gas, " is commonly used by dentists to

help mitigate pain. This could present a risk to patients, but probably more

often it presents a risk to people working in the office who would be exposed

every day. However, a far greater potential concern came to mind when I recently

read a news article that stated that the catalytic converters in automobiles are

creating enough nitrous oxide emissions to contribute significantly to the

greenhouse effect. It is also known to be a very stable molecule that has a

lifetime in the atmosphere of approximately 150 years.

I have had some personal experience which I will discuss below that makes me

believe that I have discovered a significant fraction of the population is B12

deficient.

Health Consequences of a Vitamin B12 Deficiency

...but it is reasonable to conclude that a deficiency could result in or

contribute to a broad range of degenerative processes.

-------------------------------------------

The absorption of vitamin B12 requires a highly specialized process which

tends to become less effective with age. For this reason it is common for

doctors to give elderly people B12 shots which result in them feeling much

better and more energetic. Since vitamin B12 requires a special absorption

system that may not be healthy in a particular individual, some people may not

benefit from oral supplements.

For such people, one form of B12 is available, called sublingual tablets,

which are designed to be held under the tongue while the B12 is absorbed through

the skin. Many may find this approach to be advantageous. Available by

prescription are B12 shots, which may have to be administered by a doctor. I

discovered another approach which I experimented with personally and which

eventually led me to discover what I interpreted to be a very common Vitamin B12

deficiency, independent of the age group. This surprised and puzzled me very

much.

Back in 1994 when I was focusing on learning as much as I could about vitamin

B12, an experiment came to mind which I decided to try on myself. I saw a bottle

of DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) on the shelf of my health food store and remembered

that DMSO is not only absorbed directly through the skin, but it also would

carry with it any impurities dissolved in it. This can be a serious problem if

the impurities are toxic.

However, I also realized that if I dissolved vitamin B12 in it, it might carry

it directly to my blood stream through my skin. I tried it and the results were

dramatic for me, far greater than any impact I had ever felt from oral or

sublingual tablets. I put some of my vitamin B12 tablets obtained at a health

food store into a two liquid ounce bottle with an eyedropper and filled it with

DMSO. It took a couple of days for the tablets to fall apart. Once they did, I

put an eyedropper load on one arm and rubbed it in. In approximately one hour I

started to feel very good, which was a sense of general strength and well being.

This lasted all day.

When I tried it again the next day, I got no such feeling. I also didn't

experience any bad effects either. Since I knew that approximately one month's

requirement of B12 is stored in your liver, I reasoned that my system was simply

fully supplied with Vitamin B12 and that I wouldn't need to use it again for a

month or so. When I tried it again a month or so later, I got a significant

boost from it again. Since then I have continued to use it on a once every month

or so basis.

With time I decided to also add folic acid and a multiviamin-multimineral

tablet to give the solution a broader base of nutritional support. I use a two

ounce bottle with an eyedropper, add 10mg of vitamin B12 (ten 1000 mcg tablets),

9.6 mg of folic acid (twelve 800 mcg tablets) and a single

multivitamin-multimineral tablet and fill it with 99.9% DMSO (leaving a bubble

at the top so it can be mixed when shaken). All ingredients were obtained from

my local health food store.

The tablets are mostly binder and take a few days to fall apart. They don't

fully dissolve, but that doesn't seem to matter in terms of potency. I now use

this regularly on approximately a once every month or two basis. It serves as a

reasonable mood elevator for me, and I believe it contributes significantly to

my general health. My interpretation is I seem to become deficient in vitamin

B12 even though I take oral supplements regularly.

Over time I have told a number of other people about this and many have chosen

to try it. (I strongly recommended that they consult their physician first.) Of

those who have chosen to make up solutions and try it, approximately 50% have

told me that they noticed a very significant energy boost, and this was not

limited to elderly people. It seemed to be independent of age, from age 25 and

up.

Some also found a benefit if they used it as frequently as once every two

weeks and others were like me, finding the best time span between use to be in

the once-a-month or so range. If I interpret this to indicate B12 deficiencies,

the 50% number is much higher than I would have expected, and the impact on

young people was particularly unexpected. Is this an indication that there is

something happening in our environment that is causing a broad base of Vitamin

B12 deficiencies? When I read the news article about automobile exhaust and the

production of enough nitrous oxide to affect the greenhouse effect, a light

turned on. This may the cause. If so, it is a very important issue.

It is my hope that this article will stimulate a thorough investigation into

this issue to systematically evaluate if it is true, and result in an organized

effort towards a solution.

From: Cbuf1920@...

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: Sleep aids

Thank you all for your response to my desperate need to find some natural

help with sleep aids.

I do take a lot of Mag Glyc & Cal glyc & have tried melatonin & 5-htp &

valerian etc. Been trying some Dr. Teiltebaum's, Enzymatic Sleep formula.

Helps

me feel a little more more drowsy & get back to sleep when I wake up if I

take 3 of them, but I am drowsy for a long time the next day also & they are

expensive.

It sounds like I will just have to keep adjusting & experimenting with

different combos & dosages to see what works for me no matter how long it

takes.

I cannot tolerate strong drugs like Doxipin or Neurontin or Gabitril

My last Dr. ( Gordon) kept suggesting I try low dose estradiol or

progesterone for a sleep aid , even though I told him it just messes up my

menopausal symptoms even worse.

He also had me try Xyrem which was horrible, expensive & made me sick & did

not help at all.

My sleep schedule has been whacked out since I got this illness 22 yrs ago.

I cannot force my self to sleep at night or at any time. I just have to do

what my body needs. If I try to force myself to stay awake when my body needs

to sleep, I will lose the few functional hours of the day I have & suffer in

pain & nausea etc in a nonfunctionable state anyway. If I try to sleep in the

night, my body will be wide awake & I lose the few hours of energy &

functionable time I have.

So I cannot make appts or know when I will be awake or how I will be

feeling at any time. My body tends to want to be wide awake in the middle of

the

night a lot of the times. But it constantly changes, So I have no schedule at

all. Makes it difficult to know when to take pills or meds in morning or aft

or

eve when I never know when that will be.

As for shots, I have tried everything & I makes sure there are no

preservatives in it nor hitting wrong spot. I think I am just too sick & in

too much

pain & my neuropathy makes me super sensitive I guess,. Last experience was

very scary. I cannot tolerate any IM shots at all ever.

Cannot even get my blood pressure done by a cuff because it is too

painful from my Fibro. I use the writst cuffs which are not as accurate.

Dr. says he does not think Fibro can get this bad. But I am sure others

have had Fibro really severely. But then again I guess Fibro is a catch all

term

for muscle pain stiffness & joints & Lyme & many others things could also

cause that.

C.J. In Northern CA , S.F. Bay area

[Guest guest]

You're welcome! The fact that the sublinguals do help at all is a clue: more may

help more!

Adrienne

Re: Sleep aids

Hmmm DMSO for Vit/min absorption through the skin.

Very interesting idea. Thanks Adrienne

I may check it out & have sent it to a friend who has extreme difficulty

swallowing or taking pills etc.

I am taking sublingual methylcobalamin 4 of the 5,000 mcg a night. It

helps a little with the pain. But I know rest & decent sleep & diet play a

big part in it also.

Re: shots I have tried a lot of different kinds of IM shots &

different solutions etc over many years. I am not able to tolerate them.

As I said, I get one IV a week & that is all I can handle of needles & I

get a Glutithione push & Gamma Globulin & that makes a big difference in my

overall health.

C.J. N. CA SF Bay Area

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/26/2005 11:31:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:50:49 EDT

From: Cbuf1920@...

Subject: Re: Sleep aids

Thank you all for your response to my desperate need to find some natural

help with sleep aids.

I do take a lot of Mag Glyc & Cal glyc & have tried melatonin & 5-htp &

valerian etc. Been trying some Dr. Teiltebaum's, Enzymatic Sleep formula.

Helps

me feel a little more more drowsy & get back to sleep when I wake up if I

take 3 of them, but I am drowsy for a long time the next day also & they are

expensive.

It sounds like I will just have to keep adjusting & experimenting with

different combos & dosages to see what works for me no matter how long it

takes.

I cannot tolerate strong drugs like Doxipin or Neurontin or Gabitril

..

..

>>> Have you tried taking MAGNESIUM at bedtime at a high enough dose? This

may help not only with sleep but also with the pain.

I used to have pain that extreme and Mg was part of the solution for me. It

took over 1,200 mg Mg plus Malic acid about 2400 mg daily for a while to

lessen the pain level.

How much ELEMENTAL Mg are you getting in the Mg Glycinate?

Bright sunlight at midday is also critical for me in terms of stabilizing my

sleep/wake cycle.

mjh

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Absolutely. I have always done mine sub-cu with great benefit. I think most

people do it this way.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Adrienne

CAn you do b12 subcutaneously?

[Guest guest]

How far does the pretty red color spread, lol? I knew it can be used that way, I

was asking her if she could stand it.

Adrienne

Re: Sleep aids

Absolutely. I have always done mine sub-cu with great benefit. I think most

people do it this way.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: Adrienne

CAn you do b12 subcutaneously?

[Guest guest]

>

> does anyone take anything for the insomnia?

>

I take trazadone for sleep and it works very well for me.

[Guest guest]

I take xanax 0.05? I think... but I did try a sleeping pill " NO WAY " I will not

take them again! I have been on this dose for 4 years and it still works for me.

It kinda makes you relax and then you just fall asleep. unlike sleeping pills

that just knock you out.

oneluv4les <oneluv4les@...> wrote: does anyone take anything for

the insomnia?

---------------------------------

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