Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 > Thats interesting - I had 22 Amalgams removed about 6 months ago and it > helped greatly to my sensitivity Australian (50hz) mains EMF fields. I had 20 amalgams for a while, but gradually replaced them with composites. When I got ES, I still had 5 of them left. After I read about the connection between ES and mercury poisoning, I had the 5 remaining ones replaced. One thing I noted was that I temporarily improved a great deal, but then things returned back to the way they used to be after a few days. Subsequent visits to the dentist made me think that it was actually the novocaine shot which temporarily improved my symptoms. The removal of the amalgams did get rid of an electric sensation going on inside of my mouth (some people call this a " battery effect " , caused by dissimilar metals in the mouth and the saliva, which is worsened by exposure to EMF fields), so that was definitely one immediate improvement. > I guess this would count as heavy metal poisening (Mercury) but i did > not chelate or do anything else afterwards - any hints on some further > metal toxicity removal that might be worth looking at? This is a very controversial topic. Some doctors just start using prescription IV/oral chelators (DMPS,DMSA,EDTA), but this can sometimes make a person far worse if their body isn't healthy enough (plus it's very expensive). On the other extreme is to do nothing, and just let your body get rid of the metals at its own own pace. Others try using natural foods/herbs which which help it move out faster than doing nothing, and (hopefully) safer than the prescriptions -- things like cilantro, chlorella, garlic, and sea vegetables (e.g, kombu, wakame, etc) fall into this category. I've tried a variety of things, and it seems that each method has it's own advantages and disadvantages, and also dosage is critical -- if it makes you feel bad, reduce your intake until it doesn't! I've also been experimenting with chia seeds (like those found in chia pets!), and this also seems to be very powerful (and cheap!), although I have not read anywhere that it's supposed to be a heavy metal chelator. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hi Marc, " made me think that it was actually the Novocaine shot which temporarily improved my symptoms " So where can I buy Novocaine ? :-) Seriously tho - I had the 'battery effect' a lot - a nasty tingling sensation with a lot of saliva generated.. I noticed this happened often around mobile towers.. That was pretty weird.. Anyhow - I too feel this a lot less now the amalgams are removed - however I still feel it a little when very close to a source of EMF such as a TV or NAD amp power transformer.. These seeds - do you get them from a pet shop then? Thanks Pete Marc wrote: > > Thats interesting - I had 22 Amalgams removed about 6 months ago and it > > helped greatly to my sensitivity Australian (50hz) mains EMF fields. > > I had 20 amalgams for a while, but gradually replaced them with > composites. > When I got ES, I still had 5 of them left. After I read about the > connection > between ES and mercury poisoning, I had the 5 remaining ones replaced. > One thing I noted was that I temporarily improved a great deal, but then > things returned back to the way they used to be after a few days. > Subsequent > visits to the dentist made me think that it was actually the novocaine > shot which temporarily improved my symptoms. The removal of the amalgams > did get rid of an electric sensation going on inside of my mouth (some > people call this a " battery effect " , caused by dissimilar metals in the > mouth and the saliva, which is worsened by exposure to EMF fields), so > that was definitely one immediate improvement. > > > I guess this would count as heavy metal poisening (Mercury) but i did > > not chelate or do anything else afterwards - any hints on some further > > metal toxicity removal that might be worth looking at? > > This is a very controversial topic. Some doctors just start using > prescription IV/oral chelators (DMPS,DMSA,EDTA), but this can sometimes > make a person far worse if their body isn't healthy enough (plus it's > very expensive). On the other extreme is to do nothing, and just let > your body get rid of the metals at its own own pace. Others try using > natural foods/herbs which which help it move out faster than doing > nothing, and (hopefully) safer than the prescriptions -- things like > cilantro, chlorella, garlic, and sea vegetables (e.g, kombu, wakame, etc) > fall into this category. I've tried a variety of things, and it seems > that each method has it's own advantages and disadvantages, and also > dosage is critical -- if it makes you feel bad, reduce your intake until > it doesn't! I've also been experimenting with chia seeds (like those > found in chia pets!), and this also seems to be very powerful (and > cheap!), > although I have not read anywhere that it's supposed to be a heavy > metal chelator. > > Marc > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 > " made me think that it was actually the Novocaine > shot which temporarily improved my symptoms " > So where can I buy Novocaine ? :-) Heh, heh... although the novocaine suppressed my reaction to EMF, I'm not sure this was a good thing, as novocaine itself is supposed to be fairly toxic. Previously I noted that taking antibiotics suppressed my reaction to EMF, although I was certainly not going to take antibiotics continually for the rest of my life! > a lot less now the amalgams are removed - however I still feel it a > little when very close to a source of EMF such as a TV or NAD amp power > transformer.. Taking away the fillings removes all the obvious sources of metal in your mouth. Unfortunately, over the decades your cells have absorbed a lot of metals, so I think these are still reacting to the EMF fields. Getting these metals out of your body can take several years, but is still a worthwhile thing to do (I've been at it for 3 years already). > These seeds - do you get them from a pet shop then? Sometimes a local health food store will carry them. Otherwise you'll need to order them on the Internet and have them mailed to you, which is what I did. I bought mine at: http://www.celtic-seasalt.com/chiaseeds.html The generally suggested intake for these seeds is a tablespoon per day. However, I had a massive detox reaction to this amount, so I kept reducing my dosage until I merely felt better during the day after taking them. For me, this dosage was miniscule -- less than 1/8 of a teaspoon! In fact, I count the seeds I'm taking each day to get it right -- I'm taking about 30 seeds per day. At that rate, a one pound bag could last a lifetime! (however, my tolerance for these should increase as I detoxify further) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated). > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal-chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and see " seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 Subject: Re: heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated). > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal-chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi Ian,  What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function?  I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning quite severely; was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only in my mid 30's at that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at times but in the long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died without it as I was so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know now!  Thanks,  Cheryl From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> Subject: RE: heavy metals Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM  Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and see " seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:groups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 groups (DOT) com Subject: Re: heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I totally agree. I don't think a detox should be done unless the lipid/fats and other cell wall factors (intestinal wall, blood brain barrier, etc) are strengthened to stop the cross contamination from the metals/chemicals/ toxins floating around. Until I hear otherwise OSR is the best chelator that has the strongest bond mercury and won't drop it/spread it around. Everyone is immersed in chemicals/mercury and it is packed away in our deep tissues/bones. Just getting it out of our mouths is huge and should be done before any detox regime per the Huggins Protocol. A way after that, going slow, like a 2 year detox is the best bet rather than a month or two. 1) Rebuild cell walls first by eating organic, full fat grass fed meats, organic fruit/veggies, etc for at least 3-4 months while supplementing with Krill Oil (Mercola.com) is a minimum before any detox chelators are added. Repair the gut by going gluten free if needed and absolutely no MSG, Aspartame, Genetically mod food like Soy, Corn, Canola, etc. Eat lots of organic coconut and other good fats. my 2 cents, On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Marc wrote: >> What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered >> from >> metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a >> question. >> How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver >> from the >> metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking >> liver >> cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get > mineral > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the > exposure to > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and > kidneys, > which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) > should help > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead > try to > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and > kidneys. > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. > > Marc > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi again, Amy, and Ian  I agree with all that Ian has said here, Amy. It is useless to chelate until your body is strong enough to do it and your liver and lymphatic system are working fairly well. I wrote about recovering from CFS and FM, but what I didn't tell you was it took over a decade to do it. And I made huge mistakes all along the way, some of those mistakes being doing things out of order and then having to address all the fall-out from that. You need to talk over your situation with your doctor and make an overall plan. If your doctor doesn't see this as necessary then he has not done enough research yet. He needs to get up to speed.  I went to a very EMS knowledgeable homeopath this past winter. He had his standard plan which he was going to use for me. It didn't work--his standard plan included the " crash and burn " mentality of over-detoxing and not dealing effectively with the consequences. Your doctor needs to be aware that that will not work for you. It could be tho that this doctor does have a plan that deals with getting toxins out and getting you built up, but he wants tests to see what he is dealing with first. (But it sounds like he perhaps is not realistic in the type of testing he thinks you can handle. Some mainstream docs refuse to do hair analysis and the like.)  Btw, I remember why my heavy metals test failed the first time--my metals were in my organs and bone marrow and I had to have molybdenum to leach the metals out into my blood stream so they could be measured. This was prior to my realizing I had a molybdenum deficiency caused by my gf diet. Be well, dear; I hope this doc works for you, Diane From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> Subject: RE: heavy metals Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:08 PM  Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and see " seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:groups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 groups (DOT) com Subject: Re: heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Cheryl, I think it can cut both ways. If you have severe heavy metal poisoning it can run down other parts of the body including liver and adrenals. Conversely, if the liver, adrenals and immune system are already weak, the body can start reacting to modest levels of chemicals, heavy metals, EMF etc. I think the second is more common, but that's just gut feel. Generally it seems to me as if our bodies are amazingly tolerant and robust, and it takes several things together to give problems. Standard " liver cleansing supplements " may help and should certainly do no harm (except to your pocket). However, if you're eating a healthy diet, taking lots of supplements but are still seriously ill or going downhill, then there must surely be some other major underlying root cause (gut, liver, mercury etc). Finding it is the difficult bit - which is chicken and which is egg. My wife Sue reacted badly to having 4 small mercury fillings removed and developed MCS and ES soon after. However, the amount involved was quite small and would probably not have been a problem if she hadn't already been ill from undiagnosed liver and gut problems. Also low thyroid, which may have been a consequence rather than a cause. Standard liver supplements hadn't been enough - more concentrated treatment was needed and has helped her significantly, so that the ES is manageable and MCS only a problem if she gets a sudden high exposure. Ian _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Cheryl g Sent: 15 November 2009 07:37 Subject: RE: heavy metals Hi Ian, What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning quite severely; was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only in my mid 30's at that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at times but in the long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died without it as I was so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know now! Thanks, Cheryl From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: heavy metals groups (DOT) <mailto:%40> com Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and see " seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:groups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 groups (DOT) com Subject: Re: heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Cheryl and Marc,  The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully), it uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one organ of the lymphatics--the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus the overall lymphatic plumbing are also involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals can also use.  Diane From: Marc <marc@...> Subject: RE: heavy metals Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM  > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Marc, Thanks so much for the information. I am printing it out so I can keep referring to it and will take additional suppliments according to your advice. Cheryl > From: Marc <marc@...> > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 9:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 What supplements etc. support the liver? Amy ________________________________ From: Evie <evie15422@...> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 12:45:46 PM Subject: RE: heavy metals Hi Cheryl and Marc, The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully), it uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one organ of the lymphatics--the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus the overall lymphatic plumbing are also involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals can also use. Diane From: Marc <marc@...> Subject: RE: heavy metals Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Diane, Thanks and I will print this out also. So much info to absorb all at one time! What is the difference between adrenal fatigue and adrenal disease? Cheryl > > > > From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) > com> > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > groups (DOT) > com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > >  > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since > I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi again, Amy,  Calcium, Vit B5, CoQ10 are the 3 most important supplements for the adrenals and lymphatics as a whole. (Especially calcium AEP and pantethine, which is a more usable form of B5, and sublingual CoQ10.) I used to have a list of all of the liver supplements which I misplaced and still haven't found. So I am doing this from memory....  All the B vits, molybdenum, selenium, chromium, CoQ10, sulphur, omega oils (don't remember specific ratios), essential fatty acids, most amino acids--L-Arginine, L-cysteine, L-Methionine, L-carnitine, taurine-- glutathione, lecithin, calcium, magnesium, vit C and vit A, Alpha lipoic acid, zinc, and I think Vit D and iron.  Most of these are specifically for detox phases, and some are for restoring and rebuilding the liver itself.  I found a multiple vit/min didn't cut it. I had to take upper limits of most of these when my liver was bad. So it was very pricey and took some doing to take 39 pills a day (which I had to slowly work up to).  Diane From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) com> Subject: RE: heavy metals groups (DOT) com Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Cheryl,  Fatigue is what transpires from a short time span of deficiency. Disease is what might transpire from a long time span of deficiency. A.fatigue--can be easily addressed by nutrition but A disease might be permanent damage.  My best to you, Diane > > > > From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) > com> > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > groups (DOT) > com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > >  > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since > I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Ian, Thanks again for your help! Here is the bottom line for all my questions. I finally moved away from a power tower that I had lived 30 yards from for 30 years. I knew it was making me very ill so when I could finally afford to move I did. Now I am no better, 1 month after my move. My thyroid seems to be hyper again, for the first time in 2 years. I am losing weight and eating more. I am tired, especially in the morning. I generally felt better when I was away from home when I lived near the tower. I am wondering if living near a main street may be stressing my adrenals. I knew it may not have been the best choice to move to where I have moved but there were very few affordable homes on the market and I figured anything would be better than being near that power tower. My body has cooled down somewhat, as I was hot all the time before. I think my problem may no longer be as much EMF caused as adrenal. What is your opinion on this? Much appreciated. Thanks. Cheryl > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. > kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > groups (DOT) <mailto:% 40groups. > com> com > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM > > > > Hi Amy, > > > > I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful > with chelation. > > Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the > symptoms because > > the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the > liver. Adrenal > > fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with > MCS, ME, chronic > > fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag > is that if you > > try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver > in particular > > may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by > chelation and it can > > even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of > more extensive > > protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or > activated > > charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are > released. > > > > But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen > your system first, so > > that you can cope better with chelation if it's > necessary. The snag is that > > the underlying causes are often different for different > people, and so what > > helps one person may not help another. In previous messages > various people > > have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver > metabolic pathways not > > working so that the body can't process certain > chemicals. There's even an > > (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing > liver function genes > > (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how > to interpret the > > test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely > helped by > > glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but > there are other > > supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and > see " seems the best > > way with most of these things at the moment. So far I > don't think anyone in > > the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues > and how they > > interact, although some doctors, people and groups are > certainly a lot > > further along than others. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:@ groups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Marc > > > > Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 > > groups (DOT) com > > Subject: Re: heavy metals > > > > > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, > kidneys and liver? > > > > There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will > help various > > organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what > they > > tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. > Also, different > > doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and > also there > > are things available at health food stores or online that > are different > > than what doctors tend to use. > > > > Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well > with a doctors brand > > called " Standard Process " , and they make a > variety of supplements which > > support a variety of organs. For example: > > > > Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG > > Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex > > Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF > Betafood, > > Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic > > > > Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating > various > > foods which support detox (depending on what you are > willing to eat and > > can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, > garlic, eggs, > > kale, beets. > > > > And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are > getting enough > > salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). > > > > As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably > unchlorinated) . > > > > > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy > metal test and > > > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing > as well as > > > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so > fatigued and weak, I > > > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. > Are those tests > > > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do > instead? > > > > There are certainly some who would say that provocation > tests and IV > > chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If > your body > > cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed > into your > > system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you > worse, and it > > may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There > are alternate > > tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral > tests and urine > > porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one > simple test for > > heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy > metal chelator and > > see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it > pretty much an > > indicator of toxicity. > > > > The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I > know about is > > called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this > group with a bit of > > skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one > specific way, > > and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as > good to me. > > They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which > involves using a few > > known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic > Acid) in small > > amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours > in 3-day > > rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have > bad > > reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some > of the > > alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, > cilantro, > > NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox > organs and > > letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in > such > > a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless > things > > which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated > charcoal > > or bentonite) > > > > Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Diane, That may explain why I am not feeling better after moving away from a power tower that was only 30 yards from my home. I feared there may be permanent damage done. However, I won't give up hope just yet as I did feel better recently while housesitting at a friends that was twice as far from the power tower and a wood-based mobile home instead of metal, as mine was. Thanks again for your help. Cheryl > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) > > > com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > > > > > groups (DOT) > > > com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since > > > I have suffered from > > > > > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal > fatigue. However, I > > > do have a question. > > > > > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain > put on > > > the liver from the > > > > > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > > > then would taking liver > > > > > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then > the > > > body will get mineral > > > > > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not > be > > > the exposure to > > > > > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that > cannot > > > keep the body > > > > > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the > liver > > > and kidneys, > > > > > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > > > adrenals) should help > > > > > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, > and > > > instead try to > > > > > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, > liver, > > > and kidneys. > > > > > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their > organs > > > are further > > > > > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > > > bloodstream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Cheryl, My best guess on this (and it's a complete guess) would be that you might have something like hyperthyroidism stressing the adrenals and that it has been aggravated by the EMF from the power tower - I think EMF can also cause low thyroid symptoms which would balance out. Now that you're away from the power tower it should give a better chance to sort out the underlying issues, hopefully your dr can help on this. Do you have things like MCS as well? That would be worsened near a main road due to the traffic fumes - noise might also give a bit of extra stress - but otherwise I wouldn't have thought the main road would make a major difference. Be prepared for a long haul though, 1 month rest without active treatment doesn't sound long enough to overcome the effects which have built up over the years. However I would hope that they are reversible, at least in part, with the right treatment. Good luck, Ian _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Cheryl g Sent: 15 November 2009 20:23 Subject: RE: heavy metals Hi Ian, Thanks again for your help! Here is the bottom line for all my questions. I finally moved away from a power tower that I had lived 30 yards from for 30 years. I knew it was making me very ill so when I could finally afford to move I did. Now I am no better, 1 month after my move. My thyroid seems to be hyper again, for the first time in 2 years. I am losing weight and eating more. I am tired, especially in the morning. I generally felt better when I was away from home when I lived near the tower. I am wondering if living near a main street may be stressing my adrenals. I knew it may not have been the best choice to move to where I have moved but there were very few affordable homes on the market and I figured anything would be better than being near that power tower. My body has cooled down somewhat, as I was hot all the time before. I think my problem may no longer be as much EMF caused as adrenal. What is your opinion on this? Much appreciated. Thanks. Cheryl > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. > kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > groups (DOT) <mailto:% 40groups. > com> com > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM > > > > Hi Amy, > > > > I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful > with chelation. > > Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the > symptoms because > > the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the > liver. Adrenal > > fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with > MCS, ME, chronic > > fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag > is that if you > > try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver > in particular > > may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by > chelation and it can > > even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of > more extensive > > protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or > activated > > charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " which are > released. > > > > But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen > your system first, so > > that you can cope better with chelation if it's > necessary. The snag is that > > the underlying causes are often different for different > people, and so what > > helps one person may not help another. In previous messages > various people > > have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver > metabolic pathways not > > working so that the body can't process certain > chemicals. There's even an > > (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing > liver function genes > > (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how > to interpret the > > test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely > helped by > > glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but > there are other > > supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it and > see " seems the best > > way with most of these things at the moment. So far I > don't think anyone in > > the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues > and how they > > interact, although some doctors, people and groups are > certainly a lot > > further along than others. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:@ groups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Marc > > > > Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 > > groups (DOT) com > > Subject: Re: heavy metals > > > > > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, > kidneys and liver? > > > > There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will > help various > > organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what > they > > tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. > Also, different > > doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and > also there > > are things available at health food stores or online that > are different > > than what doctors tend to use. > > > > Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well > with a doctors brand > > called " Standard Process " , and they make a > variety of supplements which > > support a variety of organs. For example: > > > > Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG > > Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex > > Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF > Betafood, > > Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic > > > > Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating > various > > foods which support detox (depending on what you are > willing to eat and > > can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, > garlic, eggs, > > kale, beets. > > > > And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are > getting enough > > salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). > > > > As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably > unchlorinated) . > > > > > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy > metal test and > > > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing > as well as > > > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so > fatigued and weak, I > > > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. > Are those tests > > > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do > instead? > > > > There are certainly some who would say that provocation > tests and IV > > chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If > your body > > cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed > into your > > system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you > worse, and it > > may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There > are alternate > > tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral > tests and urine > > porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one > simple test for > > heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy > metal chelator and > > see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it > pretty much an > > indicator of toxicity. > > > > The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I > know about is > > called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this > group with a bit of > > skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one > specific way, > > and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as > good to me. > > They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which > involves using a few > > known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic > Acid) in small > > amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours > in 3-day > > rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have > bad > > reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some > of the > > alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, > cilantro, > > NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox > organs and > > letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in > such > > a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless > things > > which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated > charcoal > > or bentonite) > > > > Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Ian, Thank you so much for your informative and quick reply! Interesting that you mentioned the hypoactive thyroid condition as well as I had that awhile back and my thyroid seems to go back and forth, mostly hyper but was hypo once in between. I treated that with suppliments and it cleared up rather quickly. So much for the doctors that say with a slow thyroid you have to be on meds all your life! I also agree that time may heal. However, in the past I noticed improvements while just away from the power lines for a short period of time, even before I had a clue that that was what was making me so sick. I just noticed that the more I was away from home the better I felt. What is troubling me with this move is I seem to be actually worse than before I moved from the power lines. I am not sure about the MCS. I do know that I get ill if bug spray is used anywhere near me so that is possible. Thanks again! Cheryl > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > <mailto:ianandsue. > > > kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > > > > > ukgateway.net> > > > > > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > > > > > groups (DOT) <mailto:% > 40groups. > > > com> com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amy, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd strongly support what Marc says about being > careful > > > with chelation. > > > > > > Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused > the > > > symptoms because > > > > > > the body has already been badly weakened, particularly > the > > > liver. Adrenal > > > > > > fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along > with > > > MCS, ME, chronic > > > > > > fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The > snag > > > is that if you > > > > > > try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the > liver > > > in particular > > > > > > may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by > > > chelation and it can > > > > > > even make things worse. Often chelation is done as > part of > > > more extensive > > > > > > protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin > C or > > > activated > > > > > > charcoal to try to mop up the " nasties " > which are > > > released. > > > > > > > > > > > > But as Marc says, it's often best to try to > strengthen > > > your system first, so > > > > > > that you can cope better with chelation if it's > > > necessary. The snag is that > > > > > > the underlying causes are often different for > different > > > people, and so what > > > > > > helps one person may not help another. In previous > messages > > > various people > > > > > > have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver > > > metabolic pathways not > > > > > > working so that the body can't process certain > > > chemicals. There's even an > > > > > > (expensive) genetic test now which can identify > missing > > > liver function genes > > > > > > (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows > how > > > to interpret the > > > > > > test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been > hugely > > > helped by > > > > > > glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; > but > > > there are other > > > > > > supplements that they both benefit from. " Try it > and > > > see " seems the best > > > > > > way with most of these things at the moment. So far I > > > don't think anyone in > > > > > > the world has 100% understanding of all the medical > issues > > > and how they > > > > > > interact, although some doctors, people and groups > are > > > certainly a lot > > > > > > further along than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: groups (DOT) com [mailto:@ > groups. > > > com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 > > > > > > groups (DOT) com > > > > > > Subject: Re: heavy metals > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, > > > kidneys and liver? > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which > will > > > help various > > > > > > organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on > what > > > they > > > > > > tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can > afford. > > > Also, different > > > > > > doctors tend to prefer different brands of > supplements, and > > > also there > > > > > > are things available at health food stores or online > that > > > are different > > > > > > than what doctors tend to use. > > > > > > > > > > > > Over the years, I've noticed that I've done > well > > > with a doctors brand > > > > > > called " Standard Process " , and they make a > > > variety of supplements which > > > > > > support a variety of organs. For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin > PMG > > > > > > Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex > > > > > > > Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black > Radish, AF > > > Betafood, > > > > > > Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try > eating > > > various > > > > > > foods which support detox (depending on what you are > > > willing to eat and > > > > > > can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, > > > garlic, eggs, > > > > > > kale, beets. > > > > > > > > > > > > And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you > are > > > getting enough > > > > > > salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). > > > > > > > > > > > > As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably > > > unchlorinated) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation > heavy > > > metal test and > > > > > > > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from > testing > > > as well as > > > > > > > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm > so > > > fatigued and weak, I > > > > > > > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like > that. > > > Are those tests > > > > > > > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could > do > > > instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > There are certainly some who would say that > provocation > > > tests and IV > > > > > > chelation are not safe. I personally would not do > them. If > > > your body > > > > > > cannot deal with the amount of metals that are > unleashed > > > into your > > > > > > system during such a test or IV, it may end up making > you > > > worse, and it > > > > > > may be difficult to get back to where you are now. > There > > > are alternate > > > > > > tests which don't require provocation -- hair > mineral > > > tests and urine > > > > > > porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one > > > simple test for > > > > > > heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known > heavy > > > metal chelator and > > > > > > see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that > it > > > pretty much an > > > > > > indicator of toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that > I > > > know about is > > > > > > called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view > this > > > group with a bit of > > > > > > skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using > one > > > specific way, > > > > > > and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem > just as > > > good to me. > > > > > > They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , > which > > > involves using a few > > > > > > known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha > Lipoic > > > Acid) in small > > > > > > amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 > hours > > > in 3-day > > > > > > rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even > have > > > bad > > > > > > reactions to this method, and may be better off trying > some > > > of the > > > > > > alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, > chlorella, > > > cilantro, > > > > > > NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their > detox > > > organs and > > > > > > letting their body eliminate the metals at its own > rate (in > > > such > > > > > > a case, you might want to add some relatively > harmless > > > things > > > > > > which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- > activated > > > charcoal > > > > > > or bentonite) > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi again, Cheryl,  Are you sure you aren't reacting to something else? When I became very ES in early 2006, it was brought on by a reaction to pesticides. (I was ES before, but not in the same way.) I began seeking info and help for the pesticide problem which was causing all sorts of problems for me--my fibro flared up, I had very swollen glands, my skin and eyes burned, and I could barely breathe my asthma was chronically so bad. So finally I called Dr Rae's clinic in Dallas, Tx. What they told me there was, I needed to move as soon as possible to a new house, but that people with MCS often move to another house following a bad reaction in their former environment only to react to something different in that house. We had a long discussion about my former health and they told me I was going to have to ease into a new environment because I showed signs of picking up new intolerances just after I had gotten free of old ones.  As I understood it, MCSers' bodies can get used to having their immune systems ramped up 24/7 non-stop for years reacting to one thing, and then when suddenly they remove the source of that reaction, their bodies don't know how to cool down and, being on full alert immune system wise, their immune systems find some other annoyance to attack and guard against. For me, this happened when I went gluten-free after being undxed from childhood with celiac disease. My immune system was ramped up fighting glutens for over 4 decades and suddenly one day, gluten was gone. All my immune soldiers were amassed and ready for war but oooops, the enemy didn't show! What to do? Oh, I guess we will make new enemies! Sounds like a plan. lol But that is actually what transpired and my immune system has been looking for something new to react to ever since. I have a permanently up-graded immune system. And actually, the only time I am not reacting badly to anything is when my body has a really nasty infection and all the immune troops are happy fighting that war.  So, your body may have found new things to react to. Maybe you should go back to your old environment as often as you can and see how you react there. If you haven't been removed from that environment too long, perhaps you can talk your body into a truce, of sorts? Just a thought. Maybe this is why you do better at your friends home? Sorry to hear you are bad again. Hope this helps you figure out ways to help yourself, Diane > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) > > > com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > > > > > groups (DOT) > > > com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since > > > I have suffered from > > > > > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal > fatigue. However, I > > > do have a question. > > > > > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain > put on > > > the liver from the > > > > > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > > > then would taking liver > > > > > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then > the > > > body will get mineral > > > > > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not > be > > > the exposure to > > > > > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that > cannot > > > keep the body > > > > > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the > liver > > > and kidneys, > > > > > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > > > adrenals) should help > > > > > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, > and > > > instead try to > > > > > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, > liver, > > > and kidneys. > > > > > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their > organs > > > are further > > > > > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > > > bloodstream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Diane,  I had wondered if by moving I would go into " withdrawal symptoms " of sorts and I think your email explained that could be the case. I have experienced old symptoms popping up for a short while and then dissipating. I remember when I got my first pair of magnetic insoles years ago and saying " I am going through all my old symptoms backwards " , yet I felt new energy. Until reading your email I thought all this sounded too crazy to even mention, yet I somehow suspect it relates to what you explained, which is all very logical.  I could be reacting to exhaust fume as my new home is close to a busy street. Seems like that would be the most logical thing it could fight against since it is " seeking a fight " as you said.  I gradually spent more and more time at my friends house where I house-sat, hence was " eased in " there, as you mentioned. Very interesting!  I do believe in what you are saying and you have certainly shed some light on what is happening to me, and given me new hope!  Thank you ever so much for your info and time,  Cheryl  > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) > > > com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: heavy metals > > > > > > groups (DOT) > > > com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since > > > I have suffered from > > > > > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal > fatigue. However, I > > > do have a question. > > > > > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain > put on > > > the liver from the > > > > > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > > > then would taking liver > > > > > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then > the > > > body will get mineral > > > > > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not > be > > > the exposure to > > > > > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that > cannot > > > keep the body > > > > > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the > liver > > > and kidneys, > > > > > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > > > adrenals) should help > > > > > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, > and > > > instead try to > > > > > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, > liver, > > > and kidneys. > > > > > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their > organs > > > are further > > > > > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > > > bloodstream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Doesn't salt stress the adrenals rather than support them? Loni From: Marc <marc@...> Subject: Re: heavy metals Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:38 PM  > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called " Standard Process " , and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on that I know about is called " adult-metal- chelation " . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use " frequent dose chelation " , which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 > Doesn't salt stress the adrenals rather than support them? Loni Not that I've heard... salt cravings should be heeded if you have weak adrenals! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Weak adrenals=often low aldosterone production=sodium depletion via kidneys ________________________________ From: Marc <marc@...> Sent: Mon, 16 November, 2009 17:50:23 Subject: Re: heavy metals > Doesn't salt stress the adrenals rather than support them? Loni Not that I've heard... salt cravings should be heeded if you have weak adrenals! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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