Re: Is it smote or smite thine enemies?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2004 1:54:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

holistic@... writes:

When someone tries to defend the homosexual

lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly

states

it to be an abomination. End of debate.

Well, it's not only in Lev. 18:22. It's in the NT also. goes into

detail about it in Rom. and it's one of the porneia laws (Acts 15), which is

usually translated in English as fornication, but the Greek word " porneia " means

" sexual misconduct. " There's a long list of what is " sexual misconduct. "

Homosexuality is included in that long list.

And I don't really think the rest is very funny at all. It may be to you,

but what it shows is a lack of understanding what the Scriptures are stating in

Exodus and Lev. For one thing, many of those that you listed are works of the

Torah, of which we are no longer under. They were annulled at the death of

the Messiah. Some of the works are COMMANDED sacrifices. Many things were for

the Levitical priesthood anyway and there no longer is a Levital priesthood.

And some things are there to teach us how to learn to distinguish between the

clean and the unclean and to teach us prophecy. For example, there's a

higher meaning in learning about unclean meat. The lower meaning is it's just

unhealthy for you...........PERIOD! But in eating it you don't lose your

salvation. The higher meaning is unclean knowledge. I.e., you are inwardly (in

your

mind) what you eat. If you eat from (study his word) the word of Yahweh, you

are taking in clean knowledge.

Then in Ex. and Lev. there's a list of judgments which are there to render

judicial decisions if someone breaks a specific law or a commandment. These

things are not bad. They are there to protect victims of crimes and such. If

no

one breaks them, they are loving their neighbor.

Susie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2004 4:52:58 PM Central Daylight Time,

tcjak86@... writes:

Ditto. This is not amusing. " holistic's " goal is obviously to discredit the

bible and the laws which come from it. I really think we can do better on this

list than posting things that are meant to discredit or mock Judeo/Christian

beliefs.

Good explanation, Susie.

I agree with you, Coleen. Some doctors say that if you want to learn to eat

healthy (and live healthy in mind and body), just look at what the Bible talks

about.

Thanks,

Susie

[Guest guest]

Jokes are cute re the Old Testament laws...but all

kidding aside, I'm glad that through Christ I don't

have to live under the law anymore. Thankful that He

was the ultimate sacrifice in my behalf...that is

a " sweet savor " I can appreciate. And that's all I

have to say about that :-)

And it's cute to me that " he " was the one giving those laws to a group of

people that he married but committed adultery (idolatry).

[Guest guest]

>>>For example, there's a higher meaning in learning about unclean meat. The

lower meaning is it's just unhealthy for you...........PERIOD! But in eating

it you don't lose your salvation. The higher meaning is unclean knowledge.

I.e., you are inwardly (in your mind) what you eat. If you eat from (study his

word) the word of Yahweh, you

are taking in clean knowledge.<<<

Hi Susie,

Just a thought and don't think I've heard anyone mention this, yet, but with

regard to " unclean meat " ..... long ago, under Abrahamic Law (and quite

possibly before this time), many types of meat were considered inedible, because

they

transferred all kinds of untreatable parasites to human beings...particularly

pigs which are, even today with modern farming methods, considered unkosher

by Jews and Muslims. So, in all likelihood, this law originally came into being

as a cultural belief system to protect the masses from rampant infestation

and life-threatening disease. As a means to reinforce this Law, it also came to

symbolize that those who abided by it would be clean in body and, as such,

closer to God. Today, this, of course, would be open to interpretation,

depending

upon one's belief system, but it's probably the root of why many traditions

still uphold this Law - not for its original practical intent, but for its

higher spiritual meaning...similar to the symbolism of traditional Christians

eating fish only on Fridays.

Laughably, today, we should consider many farm bred animals to be unclean for

quite different reasons...not because of parasitical infestation, but because

they are pumped with hormones and antibiotics, which we then ingest, creating

all kinds of untold bodily imbalances.

Only my two cents worth, but Jeshua said he came not to refute the old Laws,

but to bring them new meaning. In the NT, you see an almost complete reversal

of the above belief system, where the body is called, one's " temple " and the

beginning point of spiritual transformation. When one truly loves and honors

one's temple, a gift from God, one does everything possible to keep it swept

clean of dis-ease (feelings of separation from God) on all levels - mentally,

emotionally and spiritually - and from this, the physical upkeep naturally

follows. I guess it's a question of chicken and egg and where one's belief

systems

lie?

Just as an aside - I've always found it interesting to note that the word

" belief " contains the word " lie " . Beliefs are generally unquestioned, acquired,

conditioned values (the cause of every war on the face of the planet when one's

beliefs are threatened) - not quite the same as the still calm voice of inner

knowing, the peaceful and loving wisdom of seeing all beings as One

(regardless of beliefs) one receives at the meeting place with God within one's

own

temple.

Namaste, n

[Guest guest]

Ditto. This is not amusing. " holistic's " goal is obviously to discredit the

bible and the laws which come from it. I really think we can do better on this

list than posting things that are meant to discredit or mock Judeo/Christian

beliefs.

Good explanation, Susie.

AMDG,

Colleen K.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tishri7@...

gallstones

Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:40 PM

Subject: Re: Is it " smote " or " smite " thine enemies?

In a message dated 4/30/2004 1:54:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

holistic@... writes:

When someone tries to defend the homosexual

lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly

states

it to be an abomination. End of debate.

Well, it's not only in Lev. 18:22. It's in the NT also. goes into

detail about it in Rom. and it's one of the porneia laws (Acts 15), which is

usually translated in English as fornication, but the Greek word " porneia "

means

" sexual misconduct. " There's a long list of what is " sexual misconduct. "

Homosexuality is included in that long list.

And I don't really think the rest is very funny at all. It may be to you,

but what it shows is a lack of understanding what the Scriptures are stating

in

Exodus and Lev. For one thing, many of those that you listed are works of

the

Torah, of which we are no longer under. They were annulled at the death of

the Messiah. Some of the works are COMMANDED sacrifices. Many things were

for

the Levitical priesthood anyway and there no longer is a Levital priesthood.

And some things are there to teach us how to learn to distinguish between

the

clean and the unclean and to teach us prophecy. For example, there's a

higher meaning in learning about unclean meat. The lower meaning is it's

just

unhealthy for you...........PERIOD! But in eating it you don't lose your

salvation. The higher meaning is unclean knowledge. I.e., you are inwardly

(in your

mind) what you eat. If you eat from (study his word) the word of Yahweh,

you

are taking in clean knowledge.

Then in Ex. and Lev. there's a list of judgments which are there to render

judicial decisions if someone breaks a specific law or a commandment. These

things are not bad. They are there to protect victims of crimes and such.

If no

one breaks them, they are loving their neighbor.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Just a thought and don't think I've heard anyone mention this, yet, but with

regard to " unclean meat " ..... long ago, under Abrahamic Law (and quite

possibly before this time), many types of meat were considered inedible,

because they

transferred all kinds of untreatable parasites to human beings...particularly

pigs which are, even today with modern farming methods, considered unkosher

by Jews and Muslims. So, in all likelihood, this law originally came into

being

as a cultural belief system to protect the masses from rampant infestation

and life-threatening disease.

Hello,

Actually, no, clean and unclean meats were known before Noah's time, and

before this time, no one ate meat..................period! Only veggies and

fruits. It was not necessary before the flood to have meat in the human body,

although it is now. And if you'll study the first sacrifice, besides the sin

sacrifice of Adam & Eve where they had to have animal skins to wear, then you'll

notice Abel's sacrifice to Yahweh. Clean meat. Any free-will sacrifice to

Yahweh must be clean meat only. But still, one is not going to lose their

salvation over eating a pig, just it's a bad health choice.

Study your science and study the Scriptures deeply. Before the flood and

before the canopy burst, with the protective layer that was around our

atmosphere, there was not the harmful rays of the sun. After the canopy burst,

that

protective layer disappeared. So the huge bombardment of harmful rays after the

flood then affected humankind. In the Scriptures you can even notice people

not living as long after this fact with people's ages not being as long. This

also caused our first skin color differences even though any kind of skin

color is not an issue anyway. Sorry, but if you'll study this in depth and

study

the Hebrew, you'll see and understand this fact.

Now, if you wish to discuss this further, I'm open to private e-mail. But

unclean meat has always been just what it is, unclean. No amount of cleaning it

up in our human minds can change this. Nothing every changes, everything's

still the same. This is very hard for many people to deal with. Cattle are

clean meats, but with some greedy cattle ranchers, they are causing severe

problems. It still doesn't change the fact that cattle are clean meats even

though

stupidity is being used by cattle ranchers.

Fortunately, we buy our meat from a reputable source, a dear friend who we

have Bible study with. But then, we ask Yahweh to bless our food too!

Susie

[Guest guest]

When I watched the Simpsons the other day, Bart, during some animated

time-travel found himself as with his sling-shot against the giant

Goliath. If my memory serves me correctly both ancients were smiting and

smoting quite frequently.

----- Original Message -----

From: Will Winter

gallstones

Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:52 PM

Subject: Is it " smote " or " smite " thine enemies?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me

unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?