Guest guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Bee, My daughter bought me some Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C from Liv on labs as a present. I know this is not the kind that you recommend, but when I looked it up I noticed that she spent a fair amount of money on it. I was wondering what your thoughts on Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C is. Is this stuff ok to take? And if so, do I take the same amount, supposably its stronger? http://www.iherb.com/LivOn-Laboratories-Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C-30-Packets-0-2-fl\ -oz-5-7-ml-Each/25231?at=0 http://www.livonlabs.com/ Thank you, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Personally I wouldn't consider taking Liposomal Vitamin C. It is no where near natural! First of all, its lecithin phospholipids bound with ascorbic acid rendering it fat (lipid) soluble. If nature intended vitamin C to be lipid soluble then it would be naturally lipid soluble, but that's not the case with this product. Mankind always thinks they are smarter than Nature and tries to tweak natural substances to make them absorbable. What we often end up with though are unexpected side effects. Vitamin C is naturally water, not lipid, soluble. Stick to the basics Carol, plain ole vitamin C (ascorbic acid), preferably with bioflavonoids to increase absorption. The Simpler, the better! -Luke > > > Hi Bee, > > My daughter bought me some Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C from Liv on labs as a present. I know this is not the kind that you recommend, but when I looked it up I noticed that she spent a fair amount of money on it. > I was wondering what your thoughts on Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C is. Is this stuff ok to take? And if so, do I take the same amount, supposably its stronger? > > http://www.iherb.com/LivOn-Laboratories-Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C-30-Packets-0-2-fl\ -oz-5-7-ml-Each/25231?at=0 > > http://www.livonlabs.com/ > > > Thank you, > Carol > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Carol, My holistic dr gave me this too and from what I have read, seems to be very effective. Especially if one has a messed up gut. I know cancer patients take it. It is supposed to be right up there with Vit. C IV treatments. He actually said not to take 'ascorbic acid' because it is only one part tiny part of true vit.c therefor robbing your body of the other parts of vit.c creating an imbalance. I'd like to hear others thoughts on liposomal vit. c. Why did your daughter get it for you? > > > Hi Bee, > > My daughter bought me some Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C from Liv on labs as a present. I know this is not the kind that you recommend, but when I looked it up I noticed that she spent a fair amount of money on it. > I was wondering what your thoughts on Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C is. Is this stuff ok to take? And if so, do I take the same amount, supposably its stronger? > > http://www.iherb.com/LivOn-Laboratories-Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C-30-Packets-0-2-fl\ -oz-5-7-ml-Each/25231?at=0 > > http://www.livonlabs.com/ > > > Thank you, > Carol > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Jess, My daughters name is also . She bought it for me as a surprise, because I guess she constantly hears me griping about how expensive supplements are. And one time she watched a documentary with me on the computer how this mans life was saved from dying from Pneumonia with Vitamin C. He was so bad off that the doctors wanted to turn off his life support. This happened in New Zealand. His Son had heard about the powers of Vitamin C, and it took getting a lawyer to actually make the hospital give the man Vitamin C through IV. Once they started the IV treatment his lungs actually started to clear and get better, but it took awhile because the hospital was not giving him as much as they should have. After the man came out of his coma and was breathing on his own again, his family was giving him this Liposomal Vitamin C in glasses of orange juice everyday. He made a complete recovery, and it was all thanks to Vitamin C. Its a true story, and you can look it up on the Internet. Well anyways, I thought that this was really nice of my daughter, but I know its not the kind that is recommended on Bee's site. I hate to waste it though as she paid nearly 35 dollars on a box of 30. So I'm waiting to see what Bee says on the matter. Carol From: jessicadugan99@... Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:43:45 +0000 Subject: [ ] Re: Liposomal Vitamin C Carol, My holistic dr gave me this too and from what I have read, seems to be very effective. Especially if one has a messed up gut. I know cancer patients take it. It is supposed to be right up there with Vit. C IV treatments. He actually said not to take 'ascorbic acid' because it is only one part tiny part of true vit.c therefor robbing your body of the other parts of vit.c creating an imbalance. I'd like to hear others thoughts on liposomal vit. c. Why did your daughter get it for you? > > > Hi Bee, > > My daughter bought me some Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C from Liv on labs as a present. I know this is not the kind that you recommend, but when I looked it up I noticed that she spent a fair amount of money on it. > I was wondering what your thoughts on Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C is. Is this stuff ok to take? And if so, do I take the same amount, supposably its stronger? > > http://www.iherb.com/LivOn-Laboratories-Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C-30-Packets-0-2-fl\ -oz-5-7-ml-Each/25231?at=0 > > http://www.livonlabs.com/ > > > Thank you, > Carol > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 > > > Hi Bee, > > My daughter bought me some Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C from Liv on labs as a present. I know this is not the kind that you recommend, but when I looked it up I noticed that she spent a fair amount of money on it. > I was wondering what your thoughts on Liposomal Spheric Vitamin C is. Is this stuff ok to take? And if so, do I take the same amount, supposably its stronger? > > http://www.iherb.com/LivOn-Laboratories-Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C-30-Packets-0-2-fl\ -oz-5-7-ml-Each/25231?at=0 > > http://www.livonlabs.com/ > +++Hi Carol, It contains alcohol in addition to lecithin which is usually made from soy, so I don't recommend you take it. Maybe your daughter can return it? Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 > > Personally I wouldn't consider taking Liposomal Vitamin C. > It is no where near natural! First of all, its lecithin phospholipids bound with ascorbic acid rendering it fat (lipid) soluble. > If nature intended vitamin C to be lipid soluble then it would be naturally lipid soluble, but that's not the case with this product. Mankind always thinks they are smarter than Nature and tries to tweak natural substances to make them absorbable. What we often end up with though are unexpected side effects. Vitamin C is naturally water, not lipid, soluble. > > Stick to the basics Carol, plain ole vitamin C (ascorbic acid), preferably with bioflavonoids to increase absorption. > The Simpler, the better! +++Hi Luke, You are absolutely correct. Vitamin C is water soluble, not lipid (fat) soluble. Also it is very common to use lecithin made from soy, so that's another factor. Thanks Luke! Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hi, Steve. Vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. It may be that the additional vitamin C, when it becomes oxidized by dealing with oxidative stress, is placing an additional demand on glutathione and depleting it further. If glutathione becomes depleted in the astrocytes of the brain, their mitochondria will not be able to produce ATP at a normal rate, and that will inhibit their ability to remove glutamate from the synapses of the neurons. The glutamate will overstimulate the NMDA receptors on the postsynaptic neurons, and that can cause excitotoxicity. Insomnia is one of the symptoms of excitotoxity. Others are anxiety and nervousness or a " wired " feeling. That may be what's happening. In my opinion, it's best to raise glutathione before boosting vitamin C very much. The methylation treatments are designed to lift the partial methylation cycle block, which then causes glutathione to rise automatically. Best regards, Rich > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > Thanks > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Dear Rich et al, I'll toss in this observation: When I take LDN (low-dose naltrexone), the " fidgety feeling " goes away. I have no idea what the biochemical pathway is for that, but it does help. I usually take it around 9:00pm in the evening, and have started experimenting with taking a smaller amount at the beginning of the day. The vitamin C thing is a conundrum for me. I need to take some for my gums. I hadn't thought about it reducing glutathione. I'll have to ponder that. Marcia on in Salem, Massachusetts On Dec 23, 2011, at 11:36 AM, rvankonynen wrote: > Hi, Steve. > > Vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. It may be that the > additional vitamin C, when it becomes oxidized by dealing with > oxidative stress, is placing an additional demand on glutathione and > depleting it further. > > If glutathione becomes depleted in the astrocytes of the brain, > their mitochondria will not be able to produce ATP at a normal rate, > and that will inhibit their ability to remove glutamate from the > synapses of the neurons. The glutamate will overstimulate the NMDA > receptors on the postsynaptic neurons, and that can cause > excitotoxicity. > > Insomnia is one of the symptoms of excitotoxity. Others are anxiety > and nervousness or a " wired " feeling. > > That may be what's happening. In my opinion, it's best to raise > glutathione before boosting vitamin C very much. The methylation > treatments are designed to lift the partial methylation cycle block, > which then causes glutathione to rise automatically. > > Best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I > have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very > early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs > recommendations but it is so powerful > > Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 The vit c helps me in a lot of ways I might add energy libido I am using much less than recommended and mixing it with other supps and food That seems to soften the hyping effect don't know why Alot of stuff hypes me up while it does not bother anyone else I will say that the methylation protocol has greatly improved the quality of my sleep But I have an underlying infection that still can fatigue me and interfere with my sleep sometimes On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:36 AM, rvankonynen wrote: > Hi, Steve. > > Vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. It may be that the additional vitamin C, when it becomes oxidized by dealing with oxidative stress, is placing an additional demand on glutathione and depleting it further. > > If glutathione becomes depleted in the astrocytes of the brain, their mitochondria will not be able to produce ATP at a normal rate, and that will inhibit their ability to remove glutamate from the synapses of the neurons. The glutamate will overstimulate the NMDA receptors on the postsynaptic neurons, and that can cause excitotoxicity. > > Insomnia is one of the symptoms of excitotoxity. Others are anxiety and nervousness or a " wired " feeling. > > That may be what's happening. In my opinion, it's best to raise glutathione before boosting vitamin C very much. The methylation treatments are designed to lift the partial methylation cycle block, which then causes glutathione to rise automatically. > > Best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > > Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hi, Marcia. Thanks for this information. I don't know how it works either, but I'm glad it does. I'm guessing that the raised endorphins somehow calm the NMDA neurons. I don't know how much vitamin C it takes to cause a significant problem with glutathione, when it is depleted. A small amount may be O.K., and a bowel tolerance dose is probably O.K., too. The late Dr. Cathcart wrote that at high enough levels, vitamin C will recycle glutathione, rather than the other way around, as is normal. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I > > have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very > > early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs > > recommendations but it is so powerful > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Hi, Steve. I wonder if something is preventing the rise in glutathione in your case. If you could run a Health Diagnostics and Research Institute methylation pathways panel, that would indicate what the current situation is. Four years is a long time for the glutathione not to be raised, if that is indeed the situation. Contact info for the lab is below. The panel costs $295. Best regards, Rich Methylation Pathways Panel This panel will indicate whether a person has a partial methylation cycle block and/or glutathione depletion. I recommend that this panel be run before deciding whether to consider treatment for lifting the methylation cycle block. I am not associated with the lab that offers this panel. The panel requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor. The best way to order the panel is by fax, on a clinician's letterhead. Available from: Health Diagnostics and Research Institute 540 Bordentown Avenue, Suite 2300 South Amboy, NJ 08879 USA Phone: (732) 721-1234 Fax: (732) 525-3288 Lab Director: Valentine, M.D. Dr. Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., is willing to help clinicians with interpretation of the panel by phone, or you can use the interpretive guide below: Interpretation of the Health Diagnostics and Research Institute Methylation Pathways Panel by Rich Van Konynenburg, Ph.D. Several people have asked for help in interpreting the results of their Health Diagnostics and Research Institute methylation pathway panels. Here are my suggestions for doing so. They are based on my study of the biochemistry involved, on my own experience with interpreting more than 120 of these panel results to date, and on discussion of some of the issues with Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., at the Health Diagnostics and Research Institute. The panel consists of measurement of two forms of glutathione (reduced and oxidized), adenosine, S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) , S- adenosylhomocysteine (SAH), and seven folic acid derivatives or vitamers. According to Dr. Audhya, the reference ranges for each of these metabolites was derived from measurements on at least 120 healthy male and female volunteer medical students from ages 20 to 40, non- smoking, and with no known chronic diseases. The reference ranges extend to plus and minus two standard deviations from the mean of these measurements. Glutathione: This is a measurement of the concentration of the reduced (active) form of glutathione (abbreviated GSH) in the blood plasma. From what I've seen, most people with chronic fatigue syndrome (PWCs) have values below the reference range. This means that they are suffering from glutathione depletion. As they undergo the simplified treatment approach to lift the methylation cycle block, this value usually rises into the normal range over a period of months. I believe that this is very important, because if glutathione is low, vitamin B12 is likely unprotected and reacts with toxins that build up in the absence of sufficient glutathione to take them out. Vitamin B12 is thus " hijacked, " and not enough of it is able to convert to methylcobalamin, which is what the methylation cycle needs in order to function normally. Also, many of the abnormalities and symptoms in CFS can be traced to glutathione depletion. Glutathione (oxidized): This is a measurement of the concentration of the oxidized form of glutathione (abbreviated GSSG) in the blood plasma. In many (but not all) PWCs, it is elevated above the normal range, and this represents oxidative stress. Adenosine: This is a measure of the concentration of adenosine in the blood plasma. Adenosine is a product of the reaction that converts SAH to homocysteine. In some PWCs it is high, in some it is low, and in some it is in the reference range. I don't yet understand what controls the adenosine level, and I suspect there is more than one factor involved. In most PWCs who started with abnormal values, the adenosine level appears to be moving into the reference range with methylation cycle treatment, but more data are needed. S-adenosymethionine (RBC) (SAM): This is a measure of the concentration of SAM in the red blood cells. Most PWCs have values below the reference range, and treatment raises the value. S- adenosylmethionine is the main supplier of methyl groups in the body, and many biochemical reactions depend on it for their methyl groups. A low value for SAM represents low methylation capacity, and in CFS, it appears to result from a partial block at the enzyme methionine synthase. Many of the abnormalities in CFS can be tied to lack of sufficient methyation capacity. S-adenosylhomocysteine (RBC) (SAH): This is a measure of the concentration of SAH in the red blood cells. In CFS, its value ranges from below the reference range, to within the reference range, to above the reference range. Values appear to be converging toward the reference range with treatment. SAH is the product of reactions in which SAM donates methyl groups to other molecules. Sum of SAM and SAH: When the sum of SAM and SAH is below 268 micromoles per deciliter, it appears to suggest the presence of upregulating polymorphisms in the cystathione beta synthase (CBS) enzyme, though this may not be true in every case. Ratio of SAM to SAH: A ratio less than about 4.5 also represents low methylation capacity. Both the concentration of SAM and the ratio of concentrations of SAM to SAH are important in determining the methylation capacity. 5-CH3-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 5-methyl tetrahydrofolate in the blood plasma. It is normally the most abundant form of folate in the blood plasma. It is the form that serves as a reactant for the enzyme methionine synthase, and is thus the most important form for the methylation cycle. Many PWCs have a low value, consistent with a partial block in the methylation cycle. The simplified treatment approach includes FolaPro, which is commercially produced 5-CH3-THF, so that when this treatment is used, this value rises in nearly every PWC. If the concentration of 5-CH3- THF is within the reference range, but either SAM or the ratio of SAM to SAH is below the reference values, it suggests that there is a partial methylation cycle block and that it is caused by unavailability of sufficient bioactive B12, rather than unavailability of sufficient folate. I have seen this frequently, and I think it demonstrates that the " hijacking " of B12 is the root cause of most cases of partial methylation cycle block. Usually glutathione is low in these cases, which is consistent with lack of protection for B12, as well as with toxin buildup. 10-Formyl-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 10-formyl tetrahydrofolate in the blood plasma. It is usually on the low side in PWCs. This form of folate is involved in reactions to form purines, which form part of RNA and DNA as well as ATP. 5-Formyl-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 5-formyl tetrahydrofolate (also called folinic acid) in the blood plasma. Most but not all PWCs have a value on the low side. This form is not used directly as a substrate in one-carbon transfer reactions, but it can be converted into other forms of folate. It is one of the supplements in the simplified treatment approach, which helps to build up various other forms of folate. THF: This is a measure of the concentration of tetrahydrofolate in the blood plasma. In PWCs it is lower than the mean normal value of 3.7 nanomoles per liter in most but not all PWCs. This is the fundamental chemically reduced form of folate from which several other reduced folate forms are made. The supplement folic acid is converted into THF by two sequential reactions catalyzed by dihydrofolate reductase (DHFR). THF is also a product of the reaction of the methionine synthase enzyme, and it is a reactant in the reaction that converts formiminoglutamate (figlu) into glutamate. If figlu is high in the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic Analysis Profile, it indicates that THF is low. Folic acid: This is a measure of the concentration of folic acid in the blood plasma. Low values suggest folic acid deficiency in the current diet. High values are sometimes associated with inability to convert folic acid into other forms of folate, such as because of polymorphisms in the DHFR enzyme. They may also be due to high supplementation of folic acid. Folinic acid (WB): This is a measure of the concentration of folinic acid in the whole blood. See comments on 5-formyl-THF above. It usually tracks with the plasma 5-formyl-THF concentration. Folic acid (RBC): This is a measure of the concentration of folic acid in the red blood cells. The red blood cells import folic acid when they are initially being formed, but during most of their approximately four-month life, they do not normally import, export, or use it. They simply serve as reservoirs for it, giving it up when they are broken down. Many PWCs have low values. This can be caused by a low folic acid status in the diet over the previous few months, since the population of RBCs at any time has ages ranging from zero to about four months. However, in CFS it can also be caused by damage to the cell membranes, which allows folic acid to leak out of the cells. Dr. Audhya reports that treatment with omega- 3 fatty acids can raise this value over time. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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