Microwaves

[Guest guest]

Sorry Irene - I don't believe in that equal opportunity BS. Men should

run around their wifes/girlfriends/partners 90% of the time. (men have

controlled & mistreated women for way too long) That way the mother

would be able to feed the baby 3 am in the morning and the milk would be

###FRESH### for the baby, the way nature intended it. My only concern is

for the baby - if parents find it too hard to breast feed the baby at 3

am, they should adopt a pet.

On another note: do you know how many seconds there are in a year?

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

Re: microwaves

THOMAS DEKANY wrote:

> * I have heard breast milk shouldn't be microwaved.

>

> Breast milk shouldn't even be exposed to air! What do you mean by it

> shouldn't be microwaved?

>

> What is this world coming to?

It's called equal opportunity :-))

It's so the husband can share in 3am feedings - surely you would not

deprive fathers of this unique pleasure? You save some breast milk in

the fridge - then when the baby wants it body temp at 3am, daddy warms

it and offers it :-))

I think that's the theory - never tested it myself I admit.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

>>WORRY ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.<<

who are you talking to?

[Guest guest]

I'm not saying I thought of microwaving it, I probably only expressed 5

ounces of it total throughout the 14 months of breastfeeding, but I read the

manual for the breastpump, and they have to include warnings about

everything in user manuals. The others have a point though, I happen to

love being a mother and doing as much for my baby as I can, and I had no

problem monopolizing the baby's feeding time whenever that time came.

Almost 2 years without a full night's sleep (counting pregnancy and the joys

of waking every few hours even before the baby is born), but we all have to

make adjustments to keep mama sane while the baby has all his needs, and if

that means expressing milk for a feeding here and there, it's still way

better than formula.

RE: microwaves

* I have heard breast milk shouldn't be microwaved.

Breast milk shouldn't even be exposed to air! What do you mean by it

shouldn't be microwaved?

What is this world coming to?

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

[Guest guest]

>> Men should run around their wifes/girlfriends/partners 90% of the

time. (men have controlled & mistreated women for way too long)

**Oooh, I like that man !!

When can I book my dh in for mind control lessons with you ?!

I'm afraid he comes from a line who find chauvenism comes too

naturally [G] - or is it laziness ?!? Hush my mouth!

)

[Guest guest]

>>When can I book my dh in for mind control lessons with you?!<<

It has to come from within. No amount of talk will convince a man

unfortunately.

[Guest guest]

Does NET mean the ones we haven't killed?

RE: microwaves

Now do you know the total number of newborns in a year? (NET)

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

* I HR = 3600 SECONDS

1 YR=31,536,000 SECONDS

[Guest guest]

I guess.

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

Re: microwaves

Does NET mean the ones we haven't killed?

RE: microwaves

Now do you know the total number of newborns in a year? (NET)

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

* I HR = 3600 SECONDS

1 YR=31,536,000 SECONDS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/2004 2:34:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,

furryboots@... writes:

Those

things are very formal; they come a specificed way

Irene, lighten up. I was only kidding. I have letters too. NASTY O.L.D.

M.A.N.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/2004 7:50:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,

noelalexis2000@... writes:

I hate to see

Mercola badmouthed because I think he is well intented.

First, I wasn't bad mouthing him, I was commenting on the credibility of his

findings based on his argument. Second, he may be well intentioned but he

needs to back up his research if he wants to convince me of what he says. I'm

sure that the AMA diet is well intentioned too but it's killing Os.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/2004 7:50:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,

noelalexis2000@... writes:

None of us

know everything for sure and we must always remind ourselves of

that. Science or not!

That's absolutely right so why should I blindly take his conclusions as right

like I used to do with doctors? Both of my parents died from the " cures " to

their illnesses. I don't know the answer to microwave ovens but I know that

it wasn't conclusive on that webpage. Most of the articles I've read at his

website are very good and well researched. I personally think that whoever

wrote that article was lazy and got a little sloppy and had preconceived notions

going in.

I'm not being judgemental here just stubborn. I've just been knee-jerked so

often over the years that I want to be convinced before I change my mind. At

one time I was " convinced " by good intentioned doctors and nutritionists that

meat was bad for me, don't take calcium because it causes kidney stones, don't

breast feed your baby because formula is better (my wife did not breast feed

my kids because of that), hot coffee causes cancer of the throat, electrical

induction from high tension wires causes cancer, eat a low fat diet, eggs are

high in cholesterol, drink milk, drink orange juice, etc. etc. I could go on

all night.

I think it is essential to rethink what we're told and what we believe and to

suspect initial findings on anything. Sometimes I think that my heart

problem might have been the best thing that could have happened to me because it

made me quit smoking and discover this diet and this group. It is amazing what

I've learned here.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/2004 8:57:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

salbud@... writes:

No, she isn't. She is trying politely to tell a new person not to use caps,

as it is considered rude.

You guys are too serious!!!

[Guest guest]

Noel wrote:

>

> Sorry I don't trust microwaves any more than I trust politicians, so

> I don't have one. I had one in the past and used it but a friend of

> my who owned a restaurant and had a microwave at head level

> developed a brain tumor and died. I always wondered if using that

> microwave could have been the reason.

More likely they had a computer or a cell phone. Those actually do send

radiation into the head. Microwaves since 1950 or so do not leak and

what they do leak is not carcinogen either - they would heat the head

inside - cook it - not cancer it.

Still more likely, they ate the wrong diet, or lived near a power

station or regularly breathed in overheated fat that is known to be

carcinogenic in the restaurant they owned.....

So easy for a rumour to spread misinformation with zero basis...

> Maybe so, maybe not. I will

> not own one again. It is a personal decision. I hate to see

> Mercola badmouthed because I think he is well intented.

Well-intended people who spread stories that have no basis - with

respect including yours here about microwaves and tumours - can actually

do as much harm as evil people if not more. You were also well

intentioned. The well intentioned part is seen by the reader and

persuades them to believe what the well intentioned person says - it is

more dangerous because trust is developed by good intentions - than

someone with known evil intent who is seen as such and thus disbelieved

unless the information is followed up to double-check it.

Mercola's site is full of serious misinformation. Good intentions have

nothing to do with the fact that this is the case and that he PLANS to

have people believe it - when he could *easily* do some research and

*know* it is false. why does he publish it on the web without checking?

Is that well-intentioned behaviour?

That for me puts his intentions in question anyway. I see it as

irresponsible behaviour to spread information that has not been checked

out for validity? Sure it is legal - you can say anything in a " free "

country and claim it is fact. (In your case, you did not claim it was

fact up top, nor do you proclaim others should believe it on a website

as Mercola does but you planted an idea, and you too have more trust

than average here and hence your assumed credibility is higher than

average.)

MErcola may well have good intentions but he also knows that everything

he hears is not automatically fact. People can and do get hurt by the

incorrect stories he web-published as if they are valid. Does he need a

conscience about that?

Apparently he does not think so.

And maybe it is " buyer beware " - but the fact is that most " buyers " who

read his site are not " aware " that this is unsubstantiated stories

rather than researched facts.

The smattering of validity here and there that people do know is fact,

easily lulls them into thinking the rest must also be fact.

> None of us

> know everything for sure

That is not an excuse to believe all sorts of nonsense - it means we

need to be *more* careful that is is a real reason to believe the

stories we hear - whether Mercola's or the wild idea that eye-level

microwaves ovens cause brain tumours (and for which there is zero

evidence). Cooking the inside of your head by climbing into a microwave

oven would be a bad idea but it has to be a really broken one to even

switch on with a head stuck in it - unless it is first detached, at

which point a tumour would be no big deal :-))

I'm not making light that someone died of a tumour, only of the idea

that a microwave could have anything to do with it.

> Science or not!

Science or not - we have a vast access to good (and bad) information on

the internet both scientific and otherwise (with emphasis on the wise)

in this information age - it's free of charge in most cass - and as

responsible people I feel we should use it wisely to be less poorly

informed. (So should Mercola.)

There is no longer as much excuse for being poorly informed as there

was pre-internet. So maybe nobody knows everything - but it is a google

away in many cases for anyone with enough incentive to look. What's

needed more is some discrimination to judge what's valid and what's not;

and many people don't think they need it or don't use it - Mercola for one.

Mercola thinks nothing of using stories based on what happened in the

fifties in Russia with badly made microwave ovens withdrawn from the

market in the sixties. That stuff has been invalid for microwaves for

over 40 years. It's an example of how new technology tends to arrive

without proper investigation of its effects - it's not an example of

what's wrong with microwave ovens. Time has proven them safe as a

current technology to use. Statistics are our friend in long-term use of

anything. It's new stuff that has high risk of long-term unknowns, not

old stuff like microwave ovens - there's never " no risk " to anything in

my opinion, including getting out of bed in the morning - but long term

experience certainly as with microwave ovens - certainly can reduce

potential risk to an insignificant one. We may yet find out that cooking

stoves pose some unforeseen risk too. But there too the risk is so low

as to be negligible compared with the benefits.

You are far more likely to get hurt stubbing your toe than using a

microwave, and you are far more likely to get " cooked " accidentally by

your hotplate than by any microwave oven.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

I've read only part of these messages, so I probably miss out some of

the points pro and con. I have a microwave oven and I use it, but

having read warnings I've reduced its use.

I use it for cooking rice, baking some cakes/bread, and reheating.(All

these not very frequently.) I used to heat tea that turned cold, but I

stopped it, too.

They say it alters/may alter(?) the structure of the food and if you

eat still vibrating food, it gives over these vibrations to your

cells, making damage this way.

My brother says he can sense something unpleasant when holding his

hand over microed food. I tried the same but I can't fell anything,

but my hands are far from being as sensitive as his. Some of you said

you have some developed senses, what do you feel/think?

Rose/Hun

[Guest guest]

Rose Zilahi wrote:

> They say it alters/may alter(?) the structure of the food

I've heard that too, but there's no evidence or chemical logic I can

find for it.

> and if you

> eat still vibrating food, it gives over these vibrations to your

> cells, making damage this way.

The food can only " vibrate " while the microwaves are being applied, not

when they are off. After that there is just heat. I suppose one can have

a phychosomatic fear - perception is not always actuality in that

case. Or the heat in the food can transfer.

In fact I often do the latter. I have some bags of Barley that I heat

up. It retains the heat like a hot water bottle if you put a cover on it.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

> I have some bags of Barley that I heat up. It retains the heat like

a hot water bottle if you put a cover on it.

I bought a microwave " hot water bottle " , which I use too. Keeps warm

very long.

Rose/Hun

[Guest guest]

> Microwaves affect the energy of EVERYTHING around them for 1,500 feet

> when they are on!

Yes, but how many people here actually feel bad when standing next to a

microwave oven? I don't see that complaint a whole lot here.

Meanwhile, lots of people complain about cellphones, computers,

and florescent lights. I think the latter must be a larger

health threat.

Marc

[Guest guest]

On one hand, few of us stand next to a microwave oven with our ear

pressed against it, at least not for any length of time... So maybe

exposure is lower relative to cell phone or computer -- which may

account for the fewer complaints.

But maybe there is a *qualitative* difference as well. Does anyone

know?

Cara

> Yes, but how many people here actually feel bad when standing next

to a

> microwave oven? I don't see that complaint a whole lot here.

> Meanwhile, lots of people complain about cellphones, computers,

> and florescent lights. I think the latter must be a larger

> health threat.

>

> Marc

[Guest guest]

> On one hand, few of us stand next to a microwave oven with our ear

> pressed against it, at least not for any length of time... So maybe

> exposure is lower relative to cell phone or computer -- which may

> account for the fewer complaints.

In the past, I've noticed being slightly bothered by the Microwave

oven when I was within a few feet of it while it was turned on, but

at that point in time I was having much more problems with a

simple landline telephone, the TV set, florescent lights,

computer monitors, and laptops. The Microwave oven seemed to

be the *least* of my concerns...

Marc

[Guest guest]

The most danger comes not from the radiation of the microwave oven but

from eating the microwaved food. It's highly possible that one get's

cancer from eating over a long time microwaved food. So please dispose

in the interest of your health your microwave oven and eat no microwaved

food if ever possible.

Best!

Klaus

Marc schrieb:

>>On one hand, few of us stand next to a microwave oven with our ear

>>pressed against it, at least not for any length of time... So maybe

>>exposure is lower relative to cell phone or computer -- which may

>>account for the fewer complaints.

>>

>>

>

>In the past, I've noticed being slightly bothered by the Microwave

>oven when I was within a few feet of it while it was turned on, but

>at that point in time I was having much more problems with a

>simple landline telephone, the TV set, florescent lights,

>computer monitors, and laptops. The Microwave oven seemed to

>be the *least* of my concerns...

>

>Marc

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Measurements on a microwave oven gave:

Magnetic fields very high (>2 microtesla) in front of the and at the back of

the oven.

3 meters away from the oven around 0.2 microtesla

Leakage of microwaves were high. 2 metres from the oven about 120 dBmV/m

8 meters from the oven (2 rooms away from the kitchen) around 80 dBmV/m.

An EHS person normally can accept values around 60 dBmV/m.

So apart from health effects from irradiated food, stay away from using the

oven.

Torbjörn Lindblom

>From: " Buergerwelle e.V., Dachverband / BI Omega-CI Omega "

><Star.Mail@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: Microwaves

>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:12:45 +0100

>

>The most danger comes not from the radiation of the microwave oven but

>from eating the microwaved food. It's highly possible that one get's

>cancer from eating over a long time microwaved food. So please dispose

>in the interest of your health your microwave oven and eat no microwaved

>food if ever possible.

>

>Best!

>

>Klaus

>

>

>

>Marc schrieb:

>

> >>On one hand, few of us stand next to a microwave oven with our ear

> >>pressed against it, at least not for any length of time... So maybe

> >>exposure is lower relative to cell phone or computer -- which may

> >>account for the fewer complaints.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >In the past, I've noticed being slightly bothered by the Microwave

> >oven when I was within a few feet of it while it was turned on, but

> >at that point in time I was having much more problems with a

> >simple landline telephone, the TV set, florescent lights,

> >computer monitors, and laptops. The Microwave oven seemed to

> >be the *least* of my concerns...

> >

> >Marc

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

correct me if I am wrong but I think in a microwave oven manual that

comes with it, it says to stay a certain distance from it when it is

on too....

> Measurements on a microwave oven gave:

>

> Magnetic fields very high (>2 microtesla) in front of the and at

the back of

> the oven.

> 3 meters away from the oven around 0.2 microtesla

>

..se/resor/

[Guest guest]

UGH! TO THE TURKEY WORD.

microwaves

Ellen,

I understand exactly what you are saying and also understand when

things are turned around to make you appear to be confused. I also

understand that the arguement is hopeless as is the person. I

totally agree with you and would not dream of destroying my fresh

vegetables in a microwave. Some people just don't get it. Even

science can contradict itself. Hang in there and don't let the

turkey's get you down.

Noel

[Guest guest]

On the magnetic fields side, I've got a meter on hire at the moment and got some

interesting results from testing our own MW oven. (This does not apply to the

microwave voltages themselves which are a separate issue).

Our background level in the house is about 0.05 microtesla. When the oven was

on it was 0.2 microtesla in front but 2-3 at the back. But when the microwaves

stopped, the reading at the back stayed high as long as the fan was on. So it

seems to be the cooling fan which causes the magnetic field, not the microwaves

themselves.

The same sort of readings (2-3 microtesla) can be got from normal gas boilers

while they are running - apparently down to the ignition coil (relay?) in the

top section. I tested our boiler and a friend's, in both cases you could see

the reading shoot up and down from 0.05 to 2 or 3 as the boiler cut in and out.

This was right up near the boiler - the field falls very fast with distance and

didn't make a noticeable difference to the reading when standing in the room.

The same with our fan oven - 0.15-0.2 microtesla when off (a bit higher than

background) but 0.5-1 outside and 2-3 inside the oven when the fan goes on, and

no effect on field levels a foot or two away from the oven in the room. And

with the computer; background levels all round it but 1 microtesla near the back

where the fan is.

I don't want to scare anyone unnecessarily - there are enough other things one

has to guard against. These fields seem to be very short range and, unless

you're standing very close to the appliance, have no obvious effect on levels in

the room. By comparison, under high voltage power lines, figures of 15-40

microtesla can be found.

I assume inverse square law should apply; double the distance away = one quarter

of the field strength. This would fit Marc's observation that MW ovens only

bothered him if he was very close. And the small field from a phone earpiece

right up against the ear has even more effect.

It depends of course whether it is electric or magnetic fields that you are

sensitive to. We think for Sue it is just electric fields and EM radiation

(microwaves, light etc), not magnetic, but we can't be sure.

I don't unfortunately have a meter to measure microwave voltages themselves -

can these be hired as well in the UK? I hired the electric/magnetics field

meter from Powerwatch.

Re: Re: Microwaves

>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:12:45 +0100

>

>The most danger comes not from the radiation of the microwave oven but

>from eating the microwaved food. It's highly possible that one get's

>cancer from eating over a long time microwaved food. So please dispose

>in the interest of your health your microwave oven and eat no microwaved

>food if ever possible.

>

>Best!

>

>Klaus

>

>

>

>Marc schrieb:

>

> >>On one hand, few of us stand next to a microwave oven with our ear

> >>pressed against it, at least not for any length of time... So maybe

> >>exposure is lower relative to cell phone or computer -- which may

> >>account for the fewer complaints.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >In the past, I've noticed being slightly bothered by the Microwave

> >oven when I was within a few feet of it while it was turned on, but

> >at that point in time I was having much more problems with a

> >simple landline telephone, the TV set, florescent lights,

> >computer monitors, and laptops. The Microwave oven seemed to

> >be the *least* of my concerns...

> >

> >Marc

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>>Don't own a cell phone either.

**I think all these things are good servants but poor masters - I'm certainly

glad my son had his cellphone with him and was able to call the police when he

and his friend were threatened at knifepoint at christmas; and I'd feel happier

if I broke down if I could just stay in my car and phone for help and let

everyone know where I was and what had happened than have to get out and wander

around an unknown place being totally vulnerable.

You just have to be in control.

)

Be a Transformer, Not a Conformer,

Observe the Masses, And then do the Opposite !

http://www.freewebs.com/inspire/

[Guest guest]

I can also feel the waves from micros. If I eat out and something has been

kept warm with microwaves, my mouth tingles and feels like it's cringing

inside. Very definite feeling, not imaginary at all. Of course I thought they

were a great idea when they first came out many years ago. But very hot

foods, even back then, had me guessing. I'm sure, though, now.

Before I went mostly raw I only cooked in the T-Fal (infommercial style)

brand pressure cooker. Drives the vits/nutrients to stay in. Bamboo steamers

are so nice because the air circulates. Broccoli and greens always look and

smell so good when you lift the lid on a bamboo. I love the manual Z Star.

I'm still learning ways to incorporate it into fooding, but for me, it's here

to stay.

Incidentally, someone told me about this bread SPROUT bread and I tried the

cinnamon/raisin (organic) and others today.

It's even fun to just read about them :

The following sprouty excerpt is from this URL :

_http://www.mybloodsugar.net/foodforlife.htm_

(http://www.mybloodsugar.net/foodforlife.htm)

The secret is in the sprouts!

We believe in sprouting the grains we use in our breads because sprouting is

the only way to release all of the vital nutrients stored in whole grains.*

To unlock this dormant food energy, maximize nutrition and flavor, we add

just the right amount of water to healthy whole organically grown grains which

are already bursting with nutrients. Beneficial enzymes are activated which

cause the grains to sprout and become a living food.

After eating their " no regular wheat flour " (SPROUTING) breads, I feel much

nicer than reg breads. I'll be able to use their bread. Regular breads I

use very sparingly, hardly ever, just to fill up on if I get super hungry.

They are in our ordinary grocery stores here, frozen, not fresh on the

shelves.

I might try a flour after dehydrating a lotta wheat berry sprouts. Or just

make a powder to sprinkle and add to other foods.

J in PA