Re: Re: gall stones - ATT:DAVE

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <khawakaqaiser@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:38 AM

Subject: Re: gall stones - ATT:DAVE

>

> You have stated that you would do a lot of home work

> before doing a liver flush ? What are the details of

> that home work, can you explain please ?

I would suggest doing liver work which may be softening, dissolving and

diluting to the contents of your gallbladder. Please see response to Amok

about possible substances. Since your stones have been mainly silent

(except for your one episode), using smooth muscle relaxing herbs will

lessen the likelihood of triggering an attack. Cholerics (herbs that

increase the production of bile by the liver), increased amounts of cold

pressed vegetable oils, intestinal cleansing, extra fiber, lipid digestive

aids, all may be appropriate.

>

> The gentleman I mentioned having liver cancer suffered

> burst of gall bladder due to gall stones. When his

> gall bladder was removed it was having cancerous

> effects plus cancerous spots on the liver were

> observed, which led to his death. You have stated

> that stones in the gb can not cause cancer. So, how

> his gb was found to be cancerous ?

The reason I said that stones most likely did not " cause " his cancer was to

draw people away from the view that one thing causes another. His

gallbladder congestion will have definitely contributed to the cancerous

situation but there will be many other factors involved also. Statistically

we know that people with gallbladder congestion have a higher incidence of

liver and gallbladder cancers (potato in the tailpipe). Gallstones are a

symptom, cancer is a symptom; to conclude that gallstones cause the cancer

is an easy out but the root may lay deeper. What causes the gallstones in

the first place? Now, the gallstones are a congestive symptom and therefore

will interfere with proper elimination, ultimately leading to an increased

risk of cancer. The root however is that which lead to the congestion in

the first place.

>

> It is also opinion of some surgeons that if gall

> bladder with stones is not removed, then it can cause

> cancer. How far this impression is true ?

Very, but again too simplistic a viewpoint for me. As my good buddy Dale

will tell you my experience with cancer is deep, broad and long.

>

> About the definitiion of my fatty liver, I am

> hereunder reproducing report of a famous u/s

> specialist doctor :

>

> " The liver measures 153 mm (upper 160 mm), it is

> normal in size and shape with slightly increased

> echogenicity in general (Grade-I Fatty Liver). The

> outlines are smooth. No focal defect. No dilatation

> of the hepatobiliary ducts " .

>

> What is your opinion about the liver in view of above

> report. Does this report mean it is enlarged ?

according to the report, no. A bit sluggish but nothing greatly out of the

" ordinary " . Here is my caution: When we observe we are able to see what we

see; we do not see everything. So when you get this kind of report it is

only about what is observed and anything that was not observable is missing.

Does that mean that there is something else going on? No, but that does not

rule out the possibility either.

>

> The internist advised me to reduce my weight. If I

> reduce my weight, will liver be also reduced.

Possibly but not guaranteed. Loosing the weight is going to benefit you

in many, many ways.

>

> Moreover, I have a big fatty lump right on the right

> ribs over gb/liver. But, the doctor says it is just a

> fatty lump and no need to worry unless it does not

> cause pain.

Why does one develop a fatty lump? Here is exactly what I am talking about:

From a modern medicine viewpoint this is a very benign appendage. It does

not seem to be much of a problem. However from the standpoint of body

function it really should not be there. In Ayurveda any unwanted mass in

the body is called " ama " ; this could be a fatty lypoma, cholesterol, a

malignant tumor, a gallstone, or whatever. They are all dealt with in

essentially the same way: " Liquefy " , transport, eliminate. The fatty lump

is a symptom of an underlying metabolic imbalance, and while it appears to

be of little consequence, the underlying imbalance can lead to other things.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for a detailed and convincing reply.

Regarding gb stones, a doctor told me that when post

mortem of dead bodies done or while doing ultrasound

of some other abdominal problems, they view stones in

gb, but, they don't bother about them. A man lived

his whole life but was not disturbed by gb stones and

died of his natural cause.

Another thing which disturbs my mind is that similar

symptoms were observed by my office boy, who serves me

tea/coffee. He had similar gas problem under the right

and left ribs and back pains. He is a very young man

and has recovered fully, whereas, I am still suffering

from it right from January 2002. Perhaps, I forgot to

tell you that when blood work was done, It showed my

recovery from Hep B. What strikes my mind sometime,

perhaps I contracted this problem from the office boy.

What is the co-relation between me and the office boy

in developing similar symptoms. What is your opinion

about after effects of the recovery of HB.

I have seen various doctors, but, more of them seem to

me useless in reaching to a correct diagnosis. The

internists point towards silent stones, some gases

problem and back pain due to back problem, whereas,

butchers (surgeons) say only one solution to take out

gb. But, I don't want to lose the battle and want to

fight till to the end. I have done a number of ultra

sounds. Do you think frequent u/s have some radiation

effects or not ? But, at least once a year, I want to

keep an eye on my gb and lever by undergoing an

ultrasound exam.

I believe now you have my whole history and can you

suggest me a trouble-free natural and gradual course

of action. Another question, does a small dose of

olive oil and epsom salt (say a teaspoonful or

tablespoonful help in taking out the dirt, at the same

time avoid awakening gb from its silent role).

--- Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <khawakaqaiser@...>

> <gallstones >

> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:38 AM

> Subject: Re: gall stones - ATT:DAVE

>

>

> >

> > You have stated that you would do a lot of home

> work

> > before doing a liver flush ? What are the details

> of

> > that home work, can you explain please ?

>

> I would suggest doing liver work which may be

> softening, dissolving and

> diluting to the contents of your gallbladder.

> Please see response to Amok

> about possible substances. Since your stones have

> been mainly silent

> (except for your one episode), using smooth muscle

> relaxing herbs will

> lessen the likelihood of triggering an attack.

> Cholerics (herbs that

> increase the production of bile by the liver),

> increased amounts of cold

> pressed vegetable oils, intestinal cleansing, extra

> fiber, lipid digestive

> aids, all may be appropriate.

> >

> > The gentleman I mentioned having liver cancer

> suffered

> > burst of gall bladder due to gall stones. When

> his

> > gall bladder was removed it was having cancerous

> > effects plus cancerous spots on the liver were

> > observed, which led to his death. You have stated

> > that stones in the gb can not cause cancer. So,

> how

> > his gb was found to be cancerous ?

>

> The reason I said that stones most likely did not

> " cause " his cancer was to

> draw people away from the view that one thing causes

> another. His

> gallbladder congestion will have definitely

> contributed to the cancerous

> situation but there will be many other factors

> involved also. Statistically

> we know that people with gallbladder congestion have

> a higher incidence of

> liver and gallbladder cancers (potato in the

> tailpipe). Gallstones are a

> symptom, cancer is a symptom; to conclude that

> gallstones cause the cancer

> is an easy out but the root may lay deeper. What

> causes the gallstones in

> the first place? Now, the gallstones are a

> congestive symptom and therefore

> will interfere with proper elimination, ultimately

> leading to an increased

> risk of cancer. The root however is that which lead

> to the congestion in

> the first place.

> >

> > It is also opinion of some surgeons that if gall

> > bladder with stones is not removed, then it can

> cause

> > cancer. How far this impression is true ?

>

> Very, but again too simplistic a viewpoint for me.

> As my good buddy Dale

> will tell you my experience with cancer is deep,

> broad and long.

>

>

> >

> > About the definitiion of my fatty liver, I am

> > hereunder reproducing report of a famous u/s

> > specialist doctor :

> >

> > " The liver measures 153 mm (upper 160 mm), it is

> > normal in size and shape with slightly increased

> > echogenicity in general (Grade-I Fatty Liver).

> The

> > outlines are smooth. No focal defect. No

> dilatation

> > of the hepatobiliary ducts " .

> >

> > What is your opinion about the liver in view of

> above

> > report. Does this report mean it is enlarged ?

>

> according to the report, no. A bit sluggish but

> nothing greatly out of the

> " ordinary " . Here is my caution: When we observe we

> are able to see what we

> see; we do not see everything. So when you get this

> kind of report it is

> only about what is observed and anything that was

> not observable is missing.

> Does that mean that there is something else going

> on? No, but that does not

> rule out the possibility either.

> >

> > The internist advised me to reduce my weight. If

> I

> > reduce my weight, will liver be also reduced.

>

> Possibly but not guaranteed. Loosing the weight

> is going to benefit you

> in many, many ways.

> >

> > Moreover, I have a big fatty lump right on the

> right

> > ribs over gb/liver. But, the doctor says it is

> just a

> > fatty lump and no need to worry unless it does not

> > cause pain.

>

> Why does one develop a fatty lump? Here is exactly

> what I am talking about:

> From a modern medicine viewpoint this is a very

> benign appendage. It does

> not seem to be much of a problem. However from the

> standpoint of body

> function it really should not be there. In Ayurveda

> any unwanted mass in

> the body is called " ama " ; this could be a fatty

> lypoma, cholesterol, a

> malignant tumor, a gallstone, or whatever. They are

> all dealt with in

> essentially the same way: " Liquefy " , transport,

> eliminate. The fatty lump

> is a symptom of an underlying metabolic imbalance,

> and while it appears to

> be of little consequence, the underlying imbalance

> can lead to other things.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Dave

> >

> > Regarding gb stones, a doctor told me that when post

> > mortem of dead bodies done or while doing ultrasound

> > of some other abdominal problems, they view stones

> > in

> > gb, but, they don't bother about them. A man lived

> > his whole life but was not disturbed by gb stones

> > and

> > died of his natural cause.

80% of all gall stones remain silent. So 4 out of 5 people who have gall

stones never have an attack. Aren't they lucky? Maybe... They are a sign

of an imbalance and one that is compromising the elimination of toxin and

metabolic wastes as well as a critical digestive secretion. All who have

gallstones that are not silent, decide to keep their gallbladder and then

change their lifestyle and engage in all the healthful ideas posted on this

group may have been blessed to have it come to their attention even in such

an uncomfortable way (would you do it if it wasn't uncomfortable?). Natural

causes... What an ignorant cop out. The idea that if we cannot determine

the effect, that there is none, is what I term " The ignorant arrogance of

science " . I will guarantee you that his gallstones were no benign

situation.

> >

> > Another thing which disturbs my mind is that similar

> > symptoms were observed by my office boy, who serves

> > me

> > tea/coffee. He had similar gas problem under the

> > right

> > and left ribs and back pains. He is a very young

> > man

> > and has recovered fully, whereas, I am still

> > suffering

> > from it right from January 2002. Perhaps, I forgot

> > to

> > tell you that when blood work was done, It showed my

> > recovery from Hep B. What strikes my mind sometime,

> > perhaps I contracted this problem from the office

> > boy.

> > What is the co-relation between me and the office

> > boy

> > in developing similar symptoms.

probably none or little. My understanding of hep b is that its main methods

of transference are sexual contact, bodily secretions or fecal matter. You

most likely cannot get it through normal human interaction. There are

genetic or cultural pre-dispositions to gallbladder problems (symptoms you

described). Native American decent (80 to 90%) and Hispanic being a couple.

I am not sure of European, Asian, etc. statistics. So if the two of you are

of the same genetic or cultural (lifestyle) group there may be common

factors.

What is your

> > opinion

> > about after effects of the recovery of HB.

Very specific to each situation. Depends on what if any damage was done.

Could be a player and may not with varying degrees.

> > I have seen various doctors, but, more of them seem

> > to

> > me useless in reaching to a correct diagnosis. The

> > internists point towards silent stones, some gases

> > problem and back pain due to back problem, whereas,

> > butchers (surgeons) say only one solution to take

> > out

> > gb. But, I don't want to lose the battle and want

> > to

> > fight till to the end.

Hurray, hurray, hurray,

I have done a number of

> > ultra

> > sounds. Do you think frequent u/s have some

> > radiation

> > effects or not ?

No radiation effect. As to possible detrimental effects we do not know. As

a general cautious rule I would limit the number of invasive or supposedly

non invasive testing procedures. You need to way the value of the

information against " cost " . Keep in mind they can quite successfully break

up gallstones in certain situations with ultrasound; less damaging than

excision of the gallbladder.

But, at least once a year, I want

> > to

> > keep an eye on my gb and lever by undergoing an

> > ultrasound exam.

> >

> > I believe now you have my whole history and can you

> > suggest me a trouble-free natural and gradual course

> > of action. Another question, does a small dose of

> > olive oil and epsom salt (say a teaspoonful or

> > tablespoonful help in taking out the dirt, at the

> > same

> > time avoid awakening gb from its silent role).

The epsom salts are relaxing to smooth muscle. They are going to minimize

the chance of the gallbladder going into cramp. The olive oil is going to

stimulate the excretion of bile in order to digest it. This potentially

could stimulate an attack. Cold pressed vegetable oils are essential to

health (including the gallbladder). There is no right or wrong answer to

this. In terms of a course of action I suggest accessing the archives (the

info on this group is excellent), rereading our previous posts, and

developing your own plan accordingly. You have awakened to a journey that

has no end, but a few goals along the way. Good luck.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...>

> >

> > >

> > >

> >