Re: Saponification is for Saps

[Guest guest]

--- In gallstones , " Will Winter " <holistic@v...>

wrote:

Hi Wills,

Sorry if we have disturbed your peace, but I am sure all of us would

like to get to the truth of things.

> Let's all help to drive a wooden stake into the heart of this dumb

theory and

> bury it once and for all.

How do we do that beyond making a statement?

> The more I think about that " theory " of faux stones the more

irritating it

> becomes. It's the dumb theory that WON'T DIE. Oddly, there are

several

> writers who are normally good thinkers who still promote the

notion that these

> flushed stones come from mysteriously-saponified olive oil. I

can't find any

> studies, scientific or otherwise, to explain where they first

came up with this

> silly notion. Those of us who have caused a flush " accidentally "

during a fast

> (i.e. no oil for days) have passed hundreds of stones so it

couldn't possibly be

> from oils. The theory just plain doesn't wash.

>

> One author who irks me the most on this topic is the renowned

herbalist

> CHRISTOPHER HOBBS who has written a plethora of great herbals. Dr

> Hobbs sez in his otherwise-excellent book NATURAL LIVER THERAPY

that

> the " 'stones' are most likely saponified oil " . Bah! (I do suggest

you get the

> book anyway though. You will probably never find as good a

reference book

> on cleansing and healing the liver using herbs. He focuses on

flushing,

> internal cleansing, fasting and herbs to nourish and regenerate

damaged liver

> tissue).

>

> Let's all help to drive a wooden stake into the heart of this dumb

theory and

> bury it once and for all. Enough wasted band width and ink. We

need to do

> this so we can get on with the business of getting healthy once

again.

>

> Will in Minnesota

[Guest guest]

Hi Will,

Like you say, after many iterations of this topic it gets more

absurd. I try and remember though, that each person who brings it

up is looking into it for the first time. I try not to take out my

frustration and impatience on them. It's the old repeat something

false often and loud enough and it sounds true to some people after

a while.

I've flushed 8 times, and done it the same way each time. My body

is relatively the same. The results of each flush are completely

different. The first one got 50 marble sized green stones. Some

got 500 bb sized stones, some got 250 stones of different colors.

Some got chaff and some didn't. Each time I did a flush, after a

few days to get rid of the epsom salts and replenish my electrolytes

I felt better than before the flush. That to me is reaffirmation of

the fact that oil, juice, and bile can't become " soap " balls in the

body.; and that the flush removes obstructing stones in the bile

pathways of the liver and gallbladder.

Have a good day,

Vince

--- In gallstones , " Will Winter " <holistic@v...>

wrote:

>

> The more I think about that " theory " of faux stones the more

irritating it

> becomes. It's the dumb theory that WON'T DIE. Oddly, there are

several

> writers who are normally good thinkers who still promote the

notion that these

> flushed stones come from mysteriously-saponified olive oil. I

can't find any

> studies, scientific or otherwise, to explain where they first

came up with this

> silly notion. Those of us who have caused a flush " accidentally "

during a fast

> (i.e. no oil for days) have passed hundreds of stones so it

couldn't possibly be

> from oils. The theory just plain doesn't wash.

>

> One author who irks me the most on this topic is the renowned

herbalist

> CHRISTOPHER HOBBS who has written a plethora of great herbals. Dr

> Hobbs sez in his otherwise-excellent book NATURAL LIVER THERAPY

that

> the " 'stones' are most likely saponified oil " . Bah! (I do suggest

<snip>

> Let's all help to drive a wooden stake into the heart of this dumb

theory and

> bury it once and for all. Enough wasted band width and ink. We

need to do

> this so we can get on with the business of getting healthy once

again.

>

> Will in Minnesota

[Guest guest]

Hello Group,

I just have to add my two-cents worth about the soap

ball theory. After doing my first flush, I passed numerous

green stones, I felt so much better I didn't care if it was soap balls or

not,

something changed in my body and I could feel it. The pressure and

stabbing pain

was gone. There were other benefits as well, I felt energized and could

sleep better at nite. My complexion cleared and I had a

healthy glow to my skin.

I don't see how passing soap balls could have accomplished all of that.

Dee

________________________________________________________________

Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95.

Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!

Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I have enjoyed reading this group for several months now, but have yet to

post a message. The " soap ball " discussion interests me because someone who I

trust to be an intelligent person has been arguing this point with me trying

to convince me that the liver flush is just a bunch of hooey. For about 14

years I experienced an extreme pain that extended from my lower back to my

shoulders. It kind of moved around for about 2 hours. I had no idea what it

was. I would make myself purge(several times), and it would go away. It was a

once a year type thing; however in recent years, the episodes became more

frequent. About 6 months ago, I was talking to a friend about the pain, and

she said it sounds like your gallbladder. Hers was removed several years ago.

So, I started reading here, the CureZone, etc.

I have completed 4 flushes with varying degrees of success. My first

produced hundreds of stones varying in size from sand to about 1/2 inch. My

second

was much less productive. For the 3rd, I took Gold Coin Grass for one month

prior, and had enormous success. Again, hundreds of stones, some an inch

long. My 4th flush, I only got about 40 pea size and smaller stones. My 5th

is next week. I feel like I am coming to the end of monthly flushes soon, and

hope to cut down to one every six months.

Now, the problem with the soap ball theory is that I took the same amount of

oil each time. If the stones are just congealed bile and oil, where did it

go when I had less productive flushes? In addition, my wife, who has never

had any symptoms, tried a flush after seeing how it helped me. She had about

20 small stones flush out. If the stones are just oil and bile, where did it

go for her?

I think the key for me is how I feel several days after the flush. I

usually lose about 5 lbs and it stays off for a while. My guess is that my

system

is more thoroughly processing and digesting the food. My bm changes, I feel

stronger, more alert, and less fatigued during the late afternoon at work.

It is easier to get up and go for a run. I don't get as tired after a meal.

It really produced a physical change for me. And, I should say that I was a

skeptic at first. I only tried it all because I did not want get a diagnosis

and feel like I had lost control. I probably would have listened to the

doctor. So in the end, anyone reading this who is thinking about doing it,

just

do it. You have nothing to lose. If you are afraid of a stone getting

stuck, it could happen anyway if you have them, with or without flushing. Just

make sure someone is around to assist if you have a problem.

I have seen some posts here about people who cannot drink the apple juice.

I found a product called Malic Acid Plus at a health food store. It is from

a company called Pain & Stress Center in San , TX. It was about $20

for 120 capsules. If taken as directed, about a 30 day supply.

Anyway, thanks for the info you guys post here, and good luck to those of

you embarking on this life changing experience.

Bill

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Dee. That is all the proof many people need. If they have

real problems corrected by doing a flush then they must have done a

lot more than manufacture " soap balls " . Those who swallow the soap

ball thoery line have not done enough cleanses to see for them

selves how powerfully healing the flushes are. The real sceptics

right will be saying placebo effect. One answer is that if a

placebo can speed the healing of livers, gallbladders, and a host of

other problems more power to it. Another answer is that placebo

could not possibly do what the flushes do so consistently for so

many different people.

Have a good day,

Vince

> Hello Group,

> I just have to add my two-cents worth about the soap

> ball theory. After doing my first flush, I passed numerous

> green stones, I felt so much better I didn't care if it was soap

balls or

> not,

> something changed in my body and I could feel it. The pressure and

> stabbing pain

> was gone. There were other benefits as well, I felt energized and

could

> sleep better at nite. My complexion cleared and I had a

> healthy glow to my skin.

> I don't see how passing soap balls could have accomplished all of

that.

>

>

> Dee

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

Nice post!!!

" Now, the problem with the soap ball theory is that I took the same

amount of oil each time. If the stones are just congealed bile and

oil, where did it go when I had less productive flushes? In addition,

my wife, who has never had any symptoms, tried a flush after seeing

how it helped me. She had about 20 small stones flush out. If the

stones are just oil and bile, where did it go for her? "

Make sense. Very convincing. Quite unlikely, but 1 possibility is

perhaps the amount of bile produced were different. Hope the more

sensitive ones don't jump on me for this.

" My first produced hundreds of stones varying in size from sand to

about 1/2 inch. "

Was it hard or soft or in between?

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I have enjoyed reading this group for several months now, but have

yet to

> post a message. The " soap ball " discussion interests me because

someone who I

> trust to be an intelligent person has been arguing this point with

me trying

> to convince me that the liver flush is just a bunch of hooey. For

about 14

> years I experienced an extreme pain that extended from my lower

back to my

> shoulders. It kind of moved around for about 2 hours. I had no

idea what it

> was. I would make myself purge(several times), and it would go

away. It was a

> once a year type thing; however in recent years, the episodes

became more

> frequent. About 6 months ago, I was talking to a friend about the

pain, and

> she said it sounds like your gallbladder. Hers was removed

several years ago.

> So, I started reading here, the CureZone, etc.

>

> I have completed 4 flushes with varying degrees of success. My

first

> produced hundreds of stones varying in size from sand to about 1/2

inch. My second

> was much less productive. For the 3rd, I took Gold Coin Grass for

one month

> prior, and had enormous success. Again, hundreds of stones, some

an inch

> long. My 4th flush, I only got about 40 pea size and smaller

stones. My 5th

> is next week. I feel like I am coming to the end of monthly

flushes soon, and

> hope to cut down to one every six months.

>

> Now, the problem with the soap ball theory is that I took the same

amount of

> oil each time. If the stones are just congealed bile and oil,

where did it

> go when I had less productive flushes? In addition, my wife, who

has never

> had any symptoms, tried a flush after seeing how it helped me.

She had about

> 20 small stones flush out. If the stones are just oil and bile,

where did it

> go for her?

>

> I think the key for me is how I feel several days after the flush.

I

> usually lose about 5 lbs and it stays off for a while. My guess is

that my system

> is more thoroughly processing and digesting the food. My bm

changes, I feel

> stronger, more alert, and less fatigued during the late afternoon

at work.

> It is easier to get up and go for a run. I don't get as tired

after a meal.

> It really produced a physical change for me. And, I should say

that I was a

> skeptic at first. I only tried it all because I did not want get

a diagnosis

> and feel like I had lost control. I probably would have listened

to the

> doctor. So in the end, anyone reading this who is thinking about

doing it, just

> do it. You have nothing to lose. If you are afraid of a stone

getting

> stuck, it could happen anyway if you have them, with or without

flushing. Just

> make sure someone is around to assist if you have a problem.

>

> I have seen some posts here about people who cannot drink the

apple juice.

> I found a product called Malic Acid Plus at a health food store.

It is from

> a company called Pain & Stress Center in San , TX. It was

about $20

> for 120 capsules. If taken as directed, about a 30 day supply.

>

> Anyway, thanks for the info you guys post here, and good luck to

those of

> you embarking on this life changing experience.

> Bill

>

>

>