Re: Brown Rice

[Guest guest]

I lived in Japan where the Japanese eat only white rice as well, however, I

think it's a new food not an old one. I would love to hear someone else's take

on this one. Recently, an elderly woman that I had met when overseas visited

us. I prepared brown rice for dinner thinking it would be a food she would

be familiar with only Americanized. She ate one serving after another and kept

commenting on how the rice reminded her of her childhood. They used to eat

rice just like that until she was 12. She had always thought of her family as

middle class until one day when her mother brought home this very expensive

machine that removed the brown gritty coating off the rice and left this

beautiful polished white kernel. It was then that she realized her family was

rich

because only the wealthy could afford these machines. After that, they only

ate white rice because it was a symbol of wealth, but oh how she missed the

brown rice she had grown up on. The outer coatings removed from the rice were

then fed to the chickens.

[Guest guest]

Ina wrote:

> Heidi,

> It is very interesting that you mention brown rice being a problem,

> because I've always had a problem with it but didn't know why. Thanks

> for answering the why part of it.

> Ina

Incidentally, Chinese reportedly eat only white rice. It appears that

eating brown rice is an invention of alternative medicine folks.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My husband did extensive research on brown rice (we used to be macrobiotic

for many years) but several DDS's told him and his macro friends as well that

their receeding gums were caused by the consumption of brown rice and the acids

left in the mouth.

My husband also had a kidney stone years ago and he was questioned by the MD

after his procedure whether he ate a lot of brown rice or not, my husband was

taken aback. How did this MD know? The MD went on to explain that he had a

type of stone that was made up of acids that formed deposits . Again, I'll have

to get more info because it was so many years ago.

I have receeding gums as well as had been macrobiotic for over 12 years.

In his reasearch he discovered that brown rice was never consumed, but the

rice was also not as highly polished as it is today. To compromise he used a

rice polishing machine which allowed the rice to be polished to varying degrees.

White rice is also seen as a nuetral food in TCM, the brown stuff is too

coarse.

Another ex macro friend (an ND) had this machine and he used to test al sorts

of foods and he found that not one person he tested was compatible with brown

rice.

I'll have to find out more info on it.

I think that because the average western diet has little fiber, no lacto

fermented products, too manyrefined carbs etc. brown rice is seen as the answer

to

our prayers .

Certainly it's better than eating white bread and all that other crap, but

what happens when it starts to have a deleterious effect on ones body?

Needless to say, my husband won't go near brown rice with a ten foot pole.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>It is very interesting that you mention brown rice being a problem,

>because I've always had a problem with it but didn't know why. Thanks

>for answering the why part of it.

>Ina

You're welcome. We all rejoiced around here when we finally had an excuse not

to serve it -- we'd been dutifully eating it for years and then we read

how there was a good reason all those Asians worked hard to remove the

brown stuff! I think Bren is right that the poorer folks ate brown rice, but

a lot of relatively poor folks would get a granite " rice polisher " and spend

a good deal of time polishing the rice to get the brown off. It was hard

work, and expensive, so why do it? Probably because it is hard to digest,

at least for a lot of folks, but soaking etc. helps a lot.

The one rice that seems to work for everyone is Basmati. I called the company

and they use NO starch, and it is " aged " for 2 years. Why aging rice matters

I have no idea, but it is really fluffy and everyone likes it. Probably no good

nutritionally, but if you are craving rice it seems to be a digestible choice.

It is sold in Costco as DAAWAT Premium Basmati.

I don't think *any* grain is great in large amounts though, at least not

for us. We do better with meat and vegies.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure about about my husband, but I used to soak it and throw the

water out but for the most part is was unsoaked. I think it's fine soaked but of

course not eaten 3 x a day.

Lenny s and Jack also did extensive research into the traditional

use of brown rice and to their dismay found no use in either China or Japan. In

Japan the poor ate millet according to what I was told.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Dedy,

Also many children (including 2 of my 3 stepchildren) suffered rickets and

permanent growth retardation. I had chronic scalp rash (which was a fatty acid

deficinecy) the whole time I was macrobiotic. I also developed hypothyroid and

have it to this day despite dietary changes. Those were just two of the things

that happened. I had only 2 menstrual cycles during my whole teenage years

and in my early 20's.

Every Chinese doctor I studied with told me I was doing great harm to my body

yet I was stuck in a belief system. I am glad to have recovered from that.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Roman,

Of course the entire macrobiotic diet is deficient, there are some good

aspects of it IMO.

But it is deficient in many fat soluble vitamins, protein etc.. as you know.

I'm just going by what the DDS said as well asthe MD (who was British) my

husband dealt with when he had his stones broken up by ultrasound.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

just to add to the horror stories about brown rice...

had a friend who went on a macrobiotic diet, for reasons I can't remember now...

he started with the strict phase of eating ONLY brown rice... this was more than

20 yrs ago so I don't remember details... he developed epilepsy!! was in his

early 30's at the time... he died during an epileptic seizure in the mid 80's...

real sad... he told me he definitely made the connection between his macrobiotic

diet and the onset of the disease.

Dedy

Re: Brown rice

Hi,

My husband did extensive research on brown rice (we used to be macrobiotic

for many years) but several DDS's told him and his macro friends as well that

their receeding gums were caused by the consumption of brown rice and the

acids

left in the mouth.

My husband also had a kidney stone years ago and he was questioned by the MD

after his procedure whether he ate a lot of brown rice or not, my husband was

taken aback. How did this MD know? The MD went on to explain that he had a

type of stone that was made up of acids that formed deposits . Again, I'll

have

to get more info because it was so many years ago.

I have receeding gums as well as had been macrobiotic for over 12 years.

In his reasearch he discovered that brown rice was never consumed, but the

rice was also not as highly polished as it is today. To compromise he used a

rice polishing machine which allowed the rice to be polished to varying

degrees.

White rice is also seen as a nuetral food in TCM, the brown stuff is too

coarse.

Another ex macro friend (an ND) had this machine and he used to test al sorts

of foods and he found that not one person he tested was compatible with brown

rice.

I'll have to find out more info on it.

I think that because the average western diet has little fiber, no lacto

fermented products, too manyrefined carbs etc. brown rice is seen as the

answer to

our prayers .

Certainly it's better than eating white bread and all that other crap, but

what happens when it starts to have a deleterious effect on ones body?

Needless to say, my husband won't go near brown rice with a ten foot pole.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Rundle wrote:

> just to add to the horror stories about brown rice...

> had a friend who went on a macrobiotic diet, for reasons I can't remember

now... he started with the strict phase of eating ONLY brown rice... this was

more than 20 yrs ago so I don't remember details... he developed epilepsy!! was

in his early 30's at the time... he died during an epileptic seizure in the mid

80's... real sad... he told me he definitely made the connection between his

macrobiotic diet and the onset of the disease.

Could it have been caused by not *brown* rice but the macrobiotic diet?

It is imbalanced as we, WAPers, think.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response, Elainie. Perhaps it's time to get a polisher-

though I eat much less rice and grain in general than in the past. . .

Ken

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:00 PM, zumicat@... wrote:

> I'm not sure about about my husband, but I used to soak it and throw

> the

> water out but for the most part is was unsoaked. I think it's fine

> soaked but of

> course not eaten 3 x a day.

> Lenny s and Jack also did extensive research into the

> traditional

> use of brown rice and to their dismay found no use in either China or

> Japan. In

> Japan the poor ate millet according to what I was told.

>

> Elainie

[Guest guest]

It requires modern technology to polish the rice, and the introduction of

white rice to Asia led to widespread outbreaks of beriberi. Populations that

relied on rice so much as their principal food would have degenerated to

nothingness if they lived off of white rice.

For some reason I didn't get Heidi's post so I don't know what she said about

brown rice, but I would suggest that if there's anything so bad about brown

rice to not eat it, rice shouldn't be eaten at all.

Chris

In a message dated 7/12/03 3:51:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

BrenRuble@... writes:

> I lived in Japan where the Japanese eat only white rice as well, however, I

>

> think it's a new food not an old one. I would love to hear someone else's

> take

> on this one. Recently, an elderly woman that I had met when overseas

> visited

> us. I prepared brown rice for dinner thinking it would be a food she would

> be familiar with only Americanized. She ate one serving after another and

> kept

> commenting on how the rice reminded her of her childhood. They used to eat

> rice just like that until she was 12. She had always thought of her family

> as

> middle class until one day when her mother brought home this very expensive

> machine that removed the brown gritty coating off the rice and left this

> beautiful polished white kernel. It was then that she realized her family

> was rich

> because only the wealthy could afford these machines. After that, they only

>

> ate white rice because it was a symbol of wealth, but oh how she missed the

> brown rice she had grown up on. The outer coatings removed from the rice

> were

> then fed to the chickens.

>

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

According to Dufty in Sugar Blues, white rice was introduced to Japan

from the west. Maybe he's wrong, he doesn't reference it.

Since polishing removes the vitamins and minerals, wouldn't it be better to

do major soaking or whatever is needed, rather than isolate the starch?

Chris

In a message dated 7/12/03 2:14:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> You're welcome. We all rejoiced around here when we finally had an excuse

> not

> to serve it -- we'd been dutifully eating it for years and then we read

> how there was a good reason all those Asians worked hard to remove the

> brown stuff! I think Bren is right that the poorer folks ate brown rice, but

> a lot of relatively poor folks would get a granite " rice polisher " and spend

> a good deal of time polishing the rice to get the brown off. It was hard

> work, and expensive, so why do it? Probably because it is hard to digest,

> at least for a lot of folks, but soaking etc. helps a lot.

>

> The one rice that seems to work for everyone is Basmati. I called the

> company

> and they use NO starch, and it is " aged " for 2 years. Why aging rice matters

> I have no idea, but it is really fluffy and everyone likes it. Probably no

> good

> nutritionally, but if you are craving rice it seems to be a digestible

> choice.

> It is sold in Costco as DAAWAT Premium Basmati.

>

> I don't think *any* grain is great in large amounts though, at least not

> for us. We do better with meat and vegies.

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/03 6:07:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zumicat@...

writes:

> Every Chinese doctor I studied with told me I was doing great harm to my

> body

> yet I was stuck in a belief system. I am glad to have recovered from that.

This is so interesting. Everyone thinks the Chinese eat all soy and rice,

but my mom's acupuncturist when she was anemic told her to drink liver blood!

Chris

[Guest guest]

>It requires modern technology to polish the rice, and the introduction of

>white rice to Asia led to widespread outbreaks of beriberi. Populations that

>relied on rice so much as their principal food would have degenerated to

>nothingness if they lived off of white rice.

That might be true to REALLY polish it, but somewhere I say this

granite " rice polisher " and this guy was turning the handle to

polish the rice. Lots of work. There was a similar gizmo for grinding

salt. I don't know when/where it was invented, but it predates modern

times. The populations ate lots of stuff besides rice: a lot of the white

folk got beriberi but they weren't eating the local delicacies. As someone

pointed out, in Japan at least they DID eat the bran, but they used it

to ferment pickles.

I tried looking some of this up, and from the general sounds if it,

the older methods got off some/most of the bran but not

as much as the machine methods, so maybe is is like the " finely

ground flour " issue -- folks used to grind flour, but they never could

get it as fine as we do today. The semi-white rice likely still

had more B-vites than our white rice. Maybe the rice folks

got REALLY polished rice, but then they could afford meat too.

This is really cute, if you want to polish your own rice:

http://chie.wschool.net/chie3/showart.php?lang=en & genre=10010 & idnum=1810

Some of the current rice deficiencies though are happening because

of the " new " breeds of rice. Iron used to be in rice, but the new

hybrids don't have it -- they are adding it back in now (not GMO either).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

The cause of beriberi (and laterI can qoute from the books I have from

Oxford and Cambridge) occurred among people who had little else but white rice.

As

soon as other foods were added, vegetables and meats, the problem ceased.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

I have studied Chinese medicine for the last 18 years. I can tell you that

rice is eaten with most every meal, but so are a lot of other foods including

many exotic sounding medicinal recipes that enhance/tonify etc.. one's

condition.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/03 4:07:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> That might be true to REALLY polish it, but somewhere I say this

> granite " rice polisher " and this guy was turning the handle to

> polish the rice. Lots of work. There was a similar gizmo for grinding

> salt. I don't know when/where it was invented, but it predates modern

> times. The populations ate lots of stuff besides rice: a lot of the white

> folk got beriberi but they weren't eating the local delicacies. As someone

> pointed out, in Japan at least they DID eat the bran, but they used it

> to ferment pickles.

Right, I read that. I'll take your word on it, as I haven't researched this.

I do wonder how much of the population had access to the polishers.

> I tried looking some of this up, and from the general sounds if it,

> the older methods got off some/most of the bran but not

> as much as the machine methods, so maybe is is like the " finely

> ground flour " issue -- folks used to grind flour, but they never could

> get it as fine as we do today. The semi-white rice likely still

> had more B-vites than our white rice. Maybe the rice folks

> got REALLY polished rice, but then they could afford meat too.

I think that's probably true for way way back, but a water-powered gristmill

with granite or whatever for millstones can get it as fine as today and they

go back to around 400 AD. Granted you don't get white flour from them, but if

you grind corn in them it comes out like the finest corn meal you can get

today.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/03 11:48:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, zumicat@...

writes:

> The cause of beriberi (and laterI can qoute from the books I have from

> Oxford and Cambridge) occurred among people who had little else but white

> rice. As

> soon as other foods were added, vegetables and meats, the problem ceased.

Same is true for adding brown rice. Its a nutritional deficiency, and brown

rice is not the only source of b vitamins.

chris

[Guest guest]

He eats soaked grains only like millet, amaranth, teff, basically all of them

except wheat and brown rice. He does eat white rice though (I dont as I don't

care for it.)

Elainie

[Guest guest]

which types of whole grains does your husband eat? this is making me paranoid

about brown rice---esp. now that i am on a much better diet and eat lots of

fiber and very few refined carbs.

zumicat@... wrote:Hi,

My husband did extensive research on brown rice (we used to be macrobiotic

for many years) but several DDS's told him and his macro friends as well that

their receeding gums were caused by the consumption of brown rice and the acids

left in the mouth.

My husband also had a kidney stone years ago and he was questioned by the MD

after his procedure whether he ate a lot of brown rice or not, my husband was

taken aback. How did this MD know? The MD went on to explain that he had a

type of stone that was made up of acids that formed deposits . Again, I'll have

to get more info because it was so many years ago.

I have receeding gums as well as had been macrobiotic for over 12 years.

In his reasearch he discovered that brown rice was never consumed, but the

rice was also not as highly polished as it is today. To compromise he used a

rice polishing machine which allowed the rice to be polished to varying degrees.

White rice is also seen as a nuetral food in TCM, the brown stuff is too

coarse.

Another ex macro friend (an ND) had this machine and he used to test al sorts

of foods and he found that not one person he tested was compatible with brown

rice.

I'll have to find out more info on it.

I think that because the average western diet has little fiber, no lacto

fermented products, too manyrefined carbs etc. brown rice is seen as the answer

to

our prayers .

Certainly it's better than eating white bread and all that other crap, but

what happens when it starts to have a deleterious effect on ones body?

Needless to say, my husband won't go near brown rice with a ten foot pole.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

>I think that's probably true for way way back, but a water-powered gristmill

>with granite or whatever for millstones can get it as fine as today and they

>go back to around 400 AD. Granted you don't get white flour from them, but if

>you grind corn in them it comes out like the finest corn meal you can get

>today.

>

>Chris

I know Bob's Red Mill uses the old stones, and their flour is really fine.

But I keep reading that most flour wasn't ground all that fine -- it may

be a matter of rich folks/poor folks or something. Or maybe they

were just guessing. A lot of those refined foods were available for

the rich, but the poor ate very differently (if they had food ...)

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/14/03 12:56:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I know Bob's Red Mill uses the old stones, and their flour is really fine.

> But I keep reading that most flour wasn't ground all that fine -- it may

> be a matter of rich folks/poor folks or something. Or maybe they

> were just guessing. A lot of those refined foods were available for

> the rich, but the poor ate very differently (if they had food ...)

Quite likely they were just guessing. There's no extra cost in grinding fine

at a grist mill (I operate one just to be clear), all you do is lower the top

stone closer to the bottom one a little bit. Not too likely poor didn't have

access to grist mills, and definitely without a doubt false for early

America. But the traditional " toll " system where a miller would charge a

portion of

the grain instead of money developed as tradition in rural areas in the middle

ages where folks didn't use currency, and eventually became law in England so

that cash-poor peasant farmers could get their grain ground. America

throughout the colonial period operated under this law, and when the good ol'

USA was

formed, the toll was set by each state individually, which lasted through the

period of village gristmills until industrial wheat mills replaced them.

So where these mills existed, they were accessible by pretty much everyone.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>There's no extra cost in grinding fine

>at a grist mill (I operate one just to be clear)

Wow! Good info from the " horses mouth " . Thanks.

So do you still charge a percentage to grind the grain?

I hear in France the situation is reversed -- the farmers

grow grapes for the wineries, and in return get 1/10

of the wine ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>I've eaten a grain-free diet for a year now, and I haven't felt so well

>in a long time. And yes, most of my social acquaintances think I'm a

>mite peculiar when I (very politely) refuse bread, cake, cookies, the

>crust part of the quiche (I eat the insides --- the nice part!), etc.,

>but I excuse myself with good grace, and explain that it's essential for

>my health that I don't eat grains.

Thanks for the nice report! The " social " part is getting easier

as far as cakes and cookies and hamburger buns though ... there

are so many Atkins folks that now everyone just assumes you

are low carb! I went to In-N-Out burger in California and they

have a special [under-the-counter-not-official] burger called

the " protein burger " where they use specially cut pieces of lettuce

to make a wonderful lettuce-bun. It is soooooo good, lots of

onions, etc too.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Oh, Heidi....I wish I had known about this when I was in LA last week!!!! I

went ahead and scarfed down that nasty bun for my in-n-out fix....oh well. It

was still darn good. Next time, I guess.

********************

they

have a special [under-the-counter-not-official] burger called

the " protein burger " where they use specially cut pieces of lettuce

to make a wonderful lettuce-bun.