Elevated Liver Enzymes

[Guest guest]

You don't say how high her enzymes are, Ann, but, generally speaking,

there is no cause for great concern unless the levels are 2 to 3 times

the upper limit of normal or higher. I'm assuming since she's going to

have a biopsy that they are at least that high.

There are so many things that can be responsible for the elevations that

it's unwise for me to even guess. Here are two excellent articles on the

topic that may help you both:

From Postgraduate Medicine, " Abnormal findings on liver function tests " :

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/gopal.htm

From Medscape, " The Role of Liver Biopsy in the Evaluation of Liver Test

Abnormalities " :

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418170_1 (registration is fast and

free)

Good luck to your friend. Please let us know what comes of the biopsy.

What about you? Is the MTX still working its magic?

[ ] elevated liver enzymes

> I don't post much, just read all the digests for the latest news and

> to keep up with everybody. Just a quick question on behalf of a

> friend. She's been diagnosed with osteoarthritis and is now

> undergoing a needle biopsy of her liver because her liver enzymes are

> elevated. The enzymes have been high for at least 3 years, no

> symptoms of liver disease, ie. weight loss, fatigue, loss of

> appetite, etc. She says she feels pretty good and is trying not to

> worry about this test but it would help if she had some indication of

> what they are looking for. The only drug she takes besides

> progesterone post-hysterectomy for menopause, is Vioxx prn. Any

> ideas???

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Ann

[Guest guest]

After having my 3rd gallbladder attack in 2 months I finally went to the

hospital – this last one was 2 ½ hrs. Ouch! Anyway, they did an ultrasound

and found that I have tons of small stones. They also did blood work and my

liver enzymes are elevated. Does anyone know why? Could this be because of

my gallstones or could it be something else (I don’t have hepatitis)?

Also…has anyone cleansed while breastfeeding? I have been told it’s not

safe for the baby???

Thanks,

Traci

[Guest guest]

Cleansing forces the toxins held in your body to exit and they take

the most expedient route..... However, you can use a breast pump

and dump the milk for the time you are cleansing and feed your baby

formula(ohdread-poor baby), assuming you are doing a short-term

cleanse. I'm thinking you could do a cleanse every other week and

your baby would still get most of the benefits of breastfeeding, and

allow you to do what you need to do to get well. The baby won't

like it, I'm sure, but you'll both be better off for it. Or, perhaps

someone would have an opinion about how long it wouldn't be safe to

breast feed and perhaps if it would only be for a couple of days,

you could freeze some breast milk in prep and supplement the baby's

diet with whatever you couldn't supply.

There is also some information (my memory is REALLY bad) about apple

juice eventually dissolving the stones. It needs to be fresh,

organic--(we often find nice juiceman 2 juicers at goodwill for

$5.00). Maybe just lots of apple juice and diet adjustments will

get you through until your baby is weaned.

Others on this list will be more helpful, I'm just trying to throw

out a couple of ideas to start a discussion.

Good luck to you.

Nina

> After having my 3rd gallbladder attack in 2 months I finally went

to the

> hospital – this last one was 2 ½ hrs. Ouch! Anyway, they did an

ultrasound

> and found that I have tons of small stones. They also did blood

work and my

> liver enzymes are elevated. Does anyone know why? Could this be

because of

> my gallstones or could it be something else (I don't have

hepatitis)?

>

> Also…has anyone cleansed while breastfeeding? I have been told

it's not

> safe for the baby???

>

> Thanks,

>

> Traci

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have heard tons of great things about wheatgrass juice, but I never

realized it may help w/ gallstones. I think I'll order from the siye you

listed and start at least w/ that right away. Nursing now, sorry so short.

Traci

-----Original Message-----

From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ] On

Behalf Of ccordell1

Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:05 PM

gallstones

Subject: Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

> After having my 3rd gallbladder attack in 2 months I finally went

to the

Traci, what bad timing. Breastfeeding, new baby, gallstones. I

feel for you. After I did my first cleanse, I started drinking

wheatgrass juice. I buy the freeze dried from www.dyna-green.com

and mix it with apple juice once a day. At about 3 days, i would

start dumping gallstones just during a normal day. I would stop

after about day 4 or so as it was a little tough on my intestines.

I also take Dandelion daily which really helps me with pain, etc.

I would think these would be safe for you and your little one, but

please do your own research first. I honestly do not know. With

all the things I am doing, I would think these would be the safest.

Don't forget to change your diet and try to follow the principles in

the Liver Cleansing Diet book by Cabot

(www.liverdoctor.com). When you have finished breastfeeding, you

can really hit the diet as intended. Hopefully this will help you

get started.

If anyone on this list has opinions, please advice also. Good luck.

csc

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Have a nice day !

[Guest guest]

,

Interesting, what did your doctor use to help you detox mold? My kid's

liver enzymes are now elevated after a couple months on cholestyramine,

but his doctor says it might be guaifenisen (expectorant/mucus thinner)

also, he is stopping the CSM and other meds that could be causing the

problem until his liver enzymes return to normal. Then will likely add

them back in one at a time to sort it all out....

Do you know if either activated charcoal or bentonite clay can cause

elevated liver enzymes? He is supposed to be taking these too but

mostly hasn't so thought I'd try and start those up now, but maybe

should just give it all a break....

thanks, sue

>If I remember correctly, that's why my P.A. didn't put me on it.

>

> Barth

>

>www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

>

>SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

>

>---

>

>s> HI,

>

>s> can cholestyramine cause elevated liver enzymes/inflammed liver?

>s> thanks, sue v.

>

[Guest guest]

CSM should help to bring liver enzymes down. Are you doing anything that would

kill fungus or mold in body, or did you move out of moldy surroundings or sick

house? I would think increasing CSM...but as we all say, I'm not a doctor, etc.

CSM has been used in hospitals on patients who are having liver failure, to save

liver...usually last ditch effort, when they should have used it earlier.

>

> ,

>

> Interesting, what did your doctor use to help you detox mold? My kid's

> liver enzymes are now elevated after a couple months on cholestyramine,

> but his doctor says it might be guaifenisen (expectorant/mucus thinner)

> also, he is stopping the CSM and other meds that could be causing the

> problem until his liver enzymes return to normal. Then will likely add

> them back in one at a time to sort it all out....

>

[Guest guest]

only ketaconazole 2% nasal spray, we are stopping that too, but it is

miniscule in quantity, I did look up csm side effects and they do

include liver function test abnormalities....

we did move out of moldy house and have been in sedona az rental that I

think is relatively mold-free, do you think changing homes could

aggravate his liver?

we are being told to stop csm for now, retest to make sure it's not just

lab error and then retest weekly...

sue

>CSM should help to bring liver enzymes down. Are you doing anything

>that would kill fungus or mold in body, or did you move out of moldy

>surroundings or sick house? I would think increasing CSM...but as we

>all say, I'm not a doctor, etc. CSM has been used in hospitals on

>patients who are having liver failure, to save liver...usually last

>ditch effort, when they should have used it earlier.

>

>

>>

>> ,

>>

>> Interesting, what did your doctor use to help you detox mold? My kid's

>> liver enzymes are now elevated after a couple months on cholestyramine,

>> but his doctor says it might be guaifenisen (expectorant/mucus thinner)

>> also, he is stopping the CSM and other meds that could be causing the

>> problem until his liver enzymes return to normal. Then will likely add

>> them back in one at a time to sort it all out....

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that might be in the Ziem NSP capsules that he takes.... sue

>Hi Sue,

>

>He told me to take milk thistle, which does help. I've never used

>charcoal or bentonite, so can't help you there.

>

> Barth

>

>---

>

>s> ,

>

>s> Interesting, what did your doctor use to help you detox mold? My kid's

>s> liver enzymes are now elevated after a couple months on cholestyramine,

>s> but his doctor says it might be guaifenisen (expectorant/mucus thinner)

>s> also, he is stopping the CSM and other meds that could be causing the

>s> problem until his liver enzymes return to normal. Then will likely add

>s> them back in one at a time to sort it all out....

>

>s> Do you know if either activated charcoal or bentonite clay can cause

>s> elevated liver enzymes? He is supposed to be taking these too but

>s> mostly hasn't so thought I'd try and start those up now, but maybe

>s> should just give it all a break....

>

>s> thanks, sue

>

>

>>>If I remember correctly, that's why my P.A. didn't put me on it.

>>>

>>> Barth

>>>

>>>www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

>>>

>>>SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

>>>

>>>---

>>>

>>>s> HI,

>>>

>>>s> can cholestyramine cause elevated liver enzymes/inflammed liver?

>>>s> thanks, sue v.

>>>

>

[Guest guest]

As for moving causing liver problems: I moved out of a problem environment into

a hotel room I felt was safe, but I developed burning rash within a short time.

I felt better, so only thing I could think of, is my improvement in energy and

health, helped my own immune system to be effectively killing off pathogens and

liver affected, because it was definately liver rash... " rash that itches " ,

starts out itching when no visible rash there, then rash gradually appears,

which I think means it come from 'internal irritation' rather than something

external. It also burns, actually come to think of it, starts out itching

slightly and when it becomes 'full bloom', burns. I thought I had poison ivy.

ANYWAY, there was some mold in hotel room I discovered, introduced to the

problems of a dirty a/c for first time, which hotel cleaned out for me. They

also proped up a/c so it drained properly. This was a Marriott. I know

says they are not responsive to people who suffer from MCS, but they were very

responsive for the a/c problem. I don't have MCS, so I did well there and they

came over same day I called them regarding a/c. My point, my skin rash/liver

problem could have been due to new type of fungus in their a/c also...so not

sure, but I have had trouble every single time I have moved of some sort.

>

> only ketaconazole 2% nasal spray, we are stopping that too, but it is

> miniscule in quantity, I did look up csm side effects and they do

> include liver function test abnormalities....

>

> we did move out of moldy house and have been in sedona az rental that I

> think is relatively mold-free, do you think changing homes could

> aggravate his liver?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue/Pat, I never knew that about CSM. It's all so very confusing!

My alternative doc did not want to give me a script for CSM because he said it

absorbs or blocks absorption of vit A. However he went ahead when I explained

that I only take it occasionally and far away from meals. Since I do not have

high cholesterol or high blood pressure, I eat FIRST and later take the CSM,

then half hour later small amt of fatty food OR take it first thing I get up and

have breakfast/brunch much later. I take it this way because my digestive

system is irritated by the tiny fibers and also I don't have much of an

appetite, so I don't want things to interfer with my digestive system or

absorption of nutrients but if I have symptoms I associate with liver trouble or

taking medicine that can cause liver problems, I will take it once or more daily

until symptoms disappear or I'm done taking the medicine.

>

>I did look up csm side effects and they do

> include liver function test abnormalities....

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb, what you discribed about itching than burning inside, I have two glands

that do this. one under my left arm pit, the other at the top of my left inner

thigh. it comes and goes, both hurt alot during exposure. when I saw a

infectious disease doc he puched on that area of the top inner thigh, hurt. I

wasn't thinking the greatest to ask him why. I worry sometimes about the one

under the arm, hope it's not a sign along with other breast area reacuuring

soreness, of breast cancer to come.

>

> As for moving causing liver problems: I moved out of a problem environment

into a hotel room I felt was safe, but I developed burning rash within a short

time. I felt better, so only thing I could think of, is my improvement in

energy and health, helped my own immune system to be effectively killing off

pathogens and liver affected, because it was definately liver rash... " rash that

itches " , starts out itching when no visible rash there, then rash gradually

appears, which I think means it come from 'internal irritation' rather than

something external. It also burns, actually come to think of it, starts out

itching slightly and when it becomes 'full bloom', burns. I thought I had

poison ivy. ANYWAY, there was some mold in hotel room I discovered, introduced

to the problems of a dirty a/c for first time, which hotel cleaned out for me.

They also proped up a/c so it drained properly. This was a Marriott. I know

says they are not responsive to people who suffer from MCS, but they were

very responsive for the a/c problem. I don't have MCS, so I did well there and

they came over same day I called them regarding a/c. My point, my skin

rash/liver problem could have been due to new type of fungus in their a/c

also...so not sure, but I have had trouble every single time I have moved of

some sort.

>

[Guest guest]

Jeanine, you asked in another post about rashing and liver. At first there is

itching but no rash, skin looks normal, but as time goes by rash shows up. I've

heard this described as 'itching before rashing' or something like that. I

think it is because irritation is coming from inside and surfacing, instead of

being from the environment.

Yes, I had a rash for the entire six months I took Nystatin, which I heard is

quite uncommon because Nystatin is supposed to be not absorbed by body. However

if I had alot of Candidas, it could have been from die off. I never suspected

the Nystatin because I had heard it didn't usually cause any problems. I

thought I had poison ivy but rash lasted into late fall and poison ivy should

have died off and my rash should be leaving. However I came to the end of my

six month treatment of Nystatin and rash started to go away.

That's when I realized it had to be the Nystatin treatment. I THEN read package

booklet and it said if you rash, to call the doctor because you should probably

need to go off of it. I think I may have done liver damage at that time.

I had systemic Candida infection via blood test and doctor was going to treat me

with a systemic antifungal, but being afraid of liver problems, I asked if he

could try me on Nystatin first with the idea that is Nystatin took the Candida

level down in my gi system first that perhaps my body could take care of the

rest. Perhaps because I had systemic Candida, that is why I rashed so badly.

Not particularly the Nystatin but the die off of Candida. I should have at

least taken less Nystatin or paused in treatment until very bad rash

disappeared, but..so yes, it was rash.

It was in the thin skinned area in crook of my elbow, where your blood vessels

come up to surface and labs usually take blood, both arms. I have pictures.

Another time when I moved to some place else, I got swelling in thin skinned

area where blood vessels come to surface at wrists, but no rash developed, but I

started taking CSM immediately when I noticed it, so I think these thin tender

skin areas where blood vessels are so close to surface you can see them, are

susceptible for toxic rashes to show up. Where they are, might depend on where

die off is happening.

Re: your lymph node: I think I have swollen lymph node right now where my right

leg attaches to my body. I think it might be pressing on a nerve that goes

right down into my foot and may be causing foot pain that led to a whole host of

problems and now has me on crutches....(briefly, neurologist trying to test

nerves in my foot, over extended by toe joints trying to test the nerve endings

in my foot and sprained my foot!! That's what I get for going to a doctor!)..but

regarding lymph node: one day my whole leg ached, so I have to go in to see if

someone will aspirated it perhaps. I think this is unrelated to my mold

exposure, that I won't go into.

>

> Barb, what you discribed about itching than burning inside, I have two glands

that do this. one under my left arm pit, the other at the top of my left inner

thigh.

[Guest guest]

I am a consult for indoor air, and I solve contamination problems within the

central HVAC system or independent A/C units. Hotels are a focus of all sorts of

mold, mold spore, virus, V.O.C, and bacteria, which run through their HVAC

system. I am including a copy, regarding the problems they experience. This can

further help in taking care of mold problems from the hidden microorganisms that

run freely transported aerially. Hope this contributes - Abraham

Air Quality Becomes An Issue With Hotels.

By THOMAS GOETZ

Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

May 22, 2000

From The Wall Street Journal*

Neicei Degen walked into her hotel room at Hilton Washington & Towers looking

forward to a relaxing week in the capital. And then she walked right out again.

The problem, the Peabody, Mass., administrator says, wasn't the glitzy decor or

the limited view. It was the air, which she describes as a musty blend of stale

air and cleaning fumes. " I didn't know what the blazes hit me, " the admittedly

chemically sensitive Ms. Degen says. " It was a beautiful hotel room, but I had

to get out of there. " Ms. Degen was on to something most travelers never

suspect: Hotels might be adding Internet lines and snazzing up suites, but air

quality isn't getting nearly as much attention. Experts say it may sometimes

cause everything from headaches to fatigue; indeed, clinics from San Francisco

to Boston specializing in travel health say almost 25% of patients who are

frequent hotel guests now complain about air quality.

At Travel Health Services, a clinic in Manhattan, patient complaints range from

kitchen fumes to bad ventilation, says medical director Bradley Connor, who adds

that the number is growing every year. It's such an issue that some companies --

and even a few travelers -- are hiring environmental consultants to check out

hotels before they check in. Behind the lament is a range of causes, everything

from old wheezy air-conditioning systems to airtight wallpaper that designers

love, but building engineers hate (as good as it looks, they say, it's even

better at growing mildew). Not to mention the chemical soup of paint fumes,

cleaning solvents and deodorizers brewing up in a typical room. Of course,

outside air has its own problems, from pollution to pollen, that circulate

through any hotel. But Rick Layton, chief executive officer at Servidyne Systems

Inc., a building-engineering company in Atlanta, estimates that only about half

of all hotels provide air that's adequately clean. " A lot of hotels are just

afraid to deal with it, " he says, adding that telltale signs range from the

smell of mold to just plain stale air. Indeed, even many hotel chains admit that

indoor air quality deserves a lot more attention.

Some of the most prominent ones are now improving maintenance schedules on

air-conditioning systems and using more environmentally friendly cleaning

products. Others are even ripping out wallpaper that can produce too much mold.

As for the Hilton Ms. Degen vacated, a hotel spokeswoman says the company

emphasizes " absolute cleanliness, " but concedes that some cleaning products it

uses " may affect some more chemically sensitive individuals. "

Air quality just " wasn't on the industry's radar screen, " says Gus Newbury, vice

president of engineering at Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc., which owns

the Sheraton and Westin brands. " There have been no standards, so it's been

difficult to know what to do. " So Weekend Journal decided to take a random

sample of air quality at hotels. Armed with petri dishes, we spent two nights at

nine hotels and placed our dishes at three locations in each room -- by the air

conditioner, by the window and in the bathroom. Then we hired an accredited lab

to count both the bacteria and mold growth in the dishes.

The results? Four of nine hotels had higher bacteria counts in at least one dish

than what our lab says you'd find in a typical suburban home -- mirroring Mr.

Layton's own estimates about hotel air quality. Mold counts were high too, high

enough that allergy sufferers might notice in four of our hotels, according to

the lab. " When it gets to 10, 20 or 30, that is not to be ignored, " says Stuart

Lerner, director of Associated Analytical Laboratories in New York, which ran

our tests.

We also found that air quality isn't necessarily any better in luxury hotels; on

some dishes, midrange hotels scored about as well as or better than the ritzy

Delano in Miami or the Four Seasons in Seattle. Older hotels didn't have higher

counts either, including Chicago's 79- year-old Drake Hotel, which had the

lowest numbers in our test overall. And don't assume that mold is more of a

problem in hotels in humid cities: Houston's Hyatt Regency had the third-lowest

mold count. Not that the hotels agreed with our methods, or our conclusions. A

spokesman for the Sheraton Newark Airport said mold has " never been a problem "

in its hotel despite the growth we found. And Holiday Inn, calling our

experiment " too simple and incomplete, " conducted its own tests after ours,

finding that its bacteria and fungi levels " would not be anticipated to cause

adverse health

effects in normal, healthy individuals. " Indeed, even some scientists we talked

to disagreed over what levels of mold and bacteria constitute a health hazard.

Though most travelers never experience any problems, a surprising number of

guests say they feel worse when they wake up. The typical symptoms: " Sore

throat, headaches, burning eyes, " describes Oliver, an environmental

physician at Harvard Medical School, who specializes in treating patients with

mold allergies and chemical sensitivities. Spending one night in a hotel, Dr.

Oliver says, obviously isn't a matter of life or death -- " but it's the kind of

thing that can make you miserable that night, or a few nights later. " Indeed,

Dr. Oliver says the problem can be worse in hotels than in office buildings --

or even airplanes -- because of the sheer number of things churning through the

air, both from within and outside the property. Hotels steadily circulate a

certain amount of fresh air inside based on the number of guests. Even though

all air is screened through filters, everything from common molds to bacteria

can seep or stay in, hiding

behind wallpaper or in cooling systems. Then there are " volatile organic

compounds " -- a broad category that includes everything from room-cleaning

solvents to fumes that come from new carpets and furniture. What's more, many

hotels also use ozone- generating devices that cloak smoke and musty smells --

but leave other contaminants in the air. Those contaminants, especially mold and

mildew, can be particularly hard on the growing legions of allergy sufferers.

Nationwide, as many as 50 million Americans -- about 20% of the population --

now suffer from allergies, according to the National Institutes of Health;

closely related, asthma rates have nearly doubled since 1980, now afflicting

more than 15 million Americans. In Kansas City, Mo., the new 400-room tower at

the Marriott Downtown started to show signs of a mildew problem soon after

opening last year, with curious discolorations on the wallpaper. The hotel has

since gone over two-thirds of its rooms, this time making sure to paint the

exterior walls so moisture can get through. Though no guests complained about

the air, the hotel is rigorously monitoring its air quality, says Pistilli

of Raphael Hotel Group, which manages the property. " It could've become a

problem if we didn't take care of it, " he says. Ironically, the industry

couldn't be healthier -- economically – and is in the midst of a vast renovation

and remodeling boom, spending $3.2 billion on such projects in 1998. But much of

the new furnishings being installed emit the very chemical fumes that experts

say are giving some guests such trouble. And it doesn't help that less than $160

million, or 5% of the industry's renovations, was spent on new heating and

air-conditioning systems. " Unless the air conditioning is making dreadful

noises, it might be last on the list for replacement, " says Adam Brecht, a hotel

consultant at PriceWaterhouses.

Indeed, wholesale changes are slow in coming. Like most hotel chains, Promus

Hotel Corp., which has the Doubletree and Embassy Suites brands, requires its

properties to maintain their air-conditionings systems -- but doesn't say how

often. " In some areas it might be insufficient and in others it might be

frivolous, " says Jim Hartigan, vice president of quality assurance at Promus. A

few years ago, the American Hotel & Motel Association helped squelch the

Occupational Safety and Health Administration's attempt to implement new indoor

air-quality regulations for all buildings that would have targeted secondhand

smoke and ventilation systems. According to Marthe Kent, OSHA's acting director

of health standards, the agency intends to issue new rules on indoor air quality

sometime next year. In the meantime, hotel-industry officials note that there

are no federal standards for a " safe " level of airborne mold, which makes

detecting and treating

a problem more difficult. " Hotels deal with fire inspectors, food inspectors,

elevator inspectors, " says Mr. Layton of Servidyne. " But there's no one who

checks on air quality. "

As a result, air-quality measures aren't entirely different from those in place

23 years ago, when the air-quality issue first hit the hotel industry. With the

nation's bicentennial in full swing, 29 guests at Philadelphia's Bellevue hotel,

including some from the American Legion, died during an outbreak of what would

later be called Legionnaires' disease. Bacteria, it turned out, had festered in

the hotel's cooling system, growing to lethal levels before it spread throughout

the building. The hotel -- and the hotel industry -- suffered for years

afterwards from the association. To be sure, such fatal outbreaks are unheard of

in the hotel industry now, mainly because the incident prompted the industry to

reevaluate practices such as placing air-intake vents near water sources, where

dangerous bacteria

can breed. But other industry practices, such as the choice of cleaning products

or the

regularity of maintenance, can leave travelers with bothersome ailments. " It's

uncomfortable, " says Louisiana Zinn, who looks for telltale signs such as

dampness and stuffiness before accepting a hotel room. Ms. Zinn, a New York

lecturer who travels frequently, is particularly wary about older hotels, which

" can get kind of dumpy, " she says. " And I'm not going to stay in a place that

has a problem. " But it isn't only old hotels that can face problems. New hotels

are built so tightly for the sake of energy efficiency that they're sometimes

prone to trapping moisture and fostering mold. The problem is exacerbated by the

pervasive use of windows that don't open; that saves on energy costs, but can

trap bad air in a room. Just ask Finch. Already fighting off a cold

when she arrived at a Hyatt in Columbus, Ohio, she found herself assigned a

stuffy room with little light – and sealed glass. " I was scratching at the

windows, " says Ms. Finch, an art curator. Worried travelers like her have

created a cottage industry for ce Molloy,

an environmental consultant in New York. In addition to advising contractors and

landlords, he says he's hired now by corporations and travelers to investigate

hotel air before clients go on trips.

" Mold is everywhere, " he says. One of the biggest culprits is vinyl wallpaper,

which many hotel designers like for its luxurious appearance and durability, but

which molds love for the way it traps vapor. Seven of the nine hotels we tested,

for instance, use the wall covering to some extent, along with thousands of

other hotels. Indeed, most hotel chains, from Radisson Hotels to Starwood's

Sheraton and Westin, have required their franchises to use upscale-looking vinyl

– much to the frustration of ph Lstiburek, an engineer at Building Science

Corp. in Westford, Mass., and a leading consultant on mold infestations. " It's a

nobrainer, " he says. " Vinyl doesn't breathe. " An exasperated Mr. Lstiburek says

he gets four or five calls a month from hotels desperate to solve their mold

problems. Each time, he explains the basic problem of moisture barriers and

mold. But that hasn't stopped them from using vinyl covering. (Such vinyl

wallpaper is found in some houses, too, Mr. Lstiburek notes, though most

homeowners opt for breathable latex paint or use paper or fabric wall

coverings.) Some hotels are facing up to the issue.

Two properties presently taking on a vinyl-related mold problem are the Walt

Disney World Swan and Dolphin in humid Orlando, Fla. Facing each other over a

lagoon, both are lush properties with 2,200 rooms between them. But they also

share a pesky mildew that grows behind the vinyl wallpaper in about 5% of rooms.

Though guests haven't complained, " when you pull the vinyl down, you have this

mold lodged to the sheet rock, " says Cocotas, an engineer at Tishman

Hotel Corp., whose sister company co- owns the hotels. To fight the mildew, the

hotels scour moldy walls with bleach, or even replace the sheet rock if

necessary. The hotels, managed under Starwood's Westin and Sheraton brands, are

required by Starwood to use vinyl wallpaper, but they do use a

mildew-resistant paste, as well as a permeable paint on particularly damp walls,

he says.

Starwood has started allowing properties to move away from vinyl, on a

case-bycase basis. A new Westin hotel in Puerto Rico, for instance, was built

with a new, breathable wall covering specifically designed for damp climates. A

spokeswoman at Radisson, too, says it makes exceptions to the 100%-vinyl rule at

hotels in hot and humid climates.

Other hotels are going a step further. Philadelphia's Sheraton Rittenhouse

Square, for instance, opened in 1998 touting itself as the country's first

" environmentally smart " hotel. Among the bragging points: Hotel air is filtered

at twice the rate as the industry standard, all carpets and linens are made of

organic or hypoallergenic fibers, and hotel furnishings have been lacquered to

prevent the emission of chemical gases. The hotel even goes so far as to make

guests sign a pledge that they won't smoke in the hotel. A Sheraton spokeswoman

says the company is looking at expanding the concept to hotels in other cities.

But whether such gambits represent a true industry wide shift, or just another

marketing niche, is another matter. Consider this: A few years ago, several

Radisson franchises in California unveiled deluxe nonsmoking rooms with better

air filtration and nontoxic cleansers. Though the rooms got a big push at the

time, they never caught on with consumers, says a spokeswoman at Carlson

Hospitality, which owns the Radisson brand. " Guests just didn't buy it, " she

says. " The rooms just faded away. "

How's the Air? A Petri-Dish Test of Hotel Air Quality.

We wanted to find out what kind of air hotel guests were sleeping in these days.

So we checked into nine hotel rooms and put out petri dishes in three different

spots: by the air-conditioning vent, by the window, and in the bathroom. Then we

hired a lab to count the bacteria and mold growths on the dishes. Obviously, our

methods shouldn't be viewed as a definitive assessment of one hotel's air. Many

molds and bacteria are harmless, and we couldn't tell whether the growths came

from outside air. But with those caveats in mind, we shared our results with

half dozen air- quality experts, as well as the hotels. What's an acceptable

level? Scientists we consulted disagreed on a benchmark, but our lab said any

bacteria count over 100 was more than what you'd find in a typical

air-conditioned

Suburban home. As for mold, our lab said allergy sufferers might notice anything

over 15.

DELANO HOTEL, Miami Beach

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 2 100 140

Mold 2 1 9

Comments: Many hotels in humid Florida have mold problems, but I an Schrager's

Delano seems to have largely avoided the issue by avoiding vinyl wallpaper. The

hotel says air quality and cleanliness are absolute concerns.

DRAKE HOTEL, Chicago

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 12 2 1

Mold 9 10 4

Comments: Since some pipes burst three years ago, the hotel has undertaken some

major work as part of a $100 million renovation. The high point: a complete

replacement of the air-conditioning system.

FOUR SEASONS OLYMPIC, Seattle

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 1 1 250*

Mold 2 2 250*

Comments: Converted to a Four Seasons in 1982, this hotel came across spotlessly

in our test -- except in the bathroom. Our experts say that's not unusual, and

could just indicate a dirty sponge. The hotel says air quality is an absolute

priority, and cleans its bathrooms

rigorously with environmentally friendly products.

HELMSLEY PARK LANE, New York

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 41 5 54

Mold 7 5 20

Comments: Harriet Burge, an environmental microbiologist at Harvard University,

was struck by the consistency of the growth on this plate, which she says looks

" like a cloud of something that grows indoors. " The hotel declines to comment.

HOLIDAY INN GEORGETOWN, Washington

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 250* 3 1

Mold 25 23 20

Comments: The high bacteria count from the air-conditioning system could

indicate some growth in the air ducts, says ce Molloy, an environmental

consultant in New York. But the hotel denies that, and says it's replacing its

air-conditioning units and vinyl paper as part of a continuing renovation.

What's more, the hotel says it conducted its own tests, which indicated no

air-quality problems.

HYATT REGENCY, Houston

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 12 1 78

Mold 6 3 6

Comments: In the face of Houston's notorious humidity, this hotel uses a higher

efficiency air filter to purge the moist air. The vinyl wallpaper, too, is

different, with tiny holes to let moisture through, a spokesman says.

MARRIOTT FISHERMAN'S WHARF, San Francisco

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 35 1 26

Mold 18 4 2

Comments: Steps from San Francisco's foggy harbor, this hotel had a major rooms

renovation last year, repapering walls with vinyl paper -- but this time using a

mildew-resistant paste, says a Marriott spokesman.

MIRAGE, Las Vegas

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 250* 250* 250*

Mold 1 1 1

Comments: Despite how scary this plate looks, Dr. Burge says it's probably

nothing much more than common yeast and bacteria. The low mold count is likely

due to Vegas's dry desert environment. The hotel says our test isn't " terribly

scientific, " but adds that it is conducting its own air tests as part of an

extensive environmental program.

SHERATON NEWARK AIRPORT, Newark, N.J.

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 17 16 18

Mold 13 13 7

Comments: With an indoor pool in a seven-story atrium, it isn't surprising to

find some mold growth. But the property says it specially filters its atrium air

and inspects its air-conditioning system quarterly.

And For Comparison...

OFFICE, New York

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 1 -- --

Mold 2 -- --

Comments: Just to be fair, we put one petri dish in our editor's office here at

The Wall Street Journal in lower Manhattan. With a carefully monitored

air-conditioning system and sealed windows that keep in the good air, the

building was bound to produce low numbers.

WEEKEND HOME (circa 1834), Cold Spring, N.Y

A/C Window Bathroom

Bacteria 33 1 45

Mold 65 12 30

Comments: We also ventured 75 miles north of Manhattan and put dishes in a

non-air-conditioned, pre-Civil War home in the Hudson Valley. The high counts

weren't surprising, considering the nearby river, the bloom of the season and

the age of the house. Indeed, the homeowner admits he suffers allergy symptoms

after weekends there.

*250 was the maximum limit for our test.

Note: Associated Analytical Laboratories in New York conducted our test. **

NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is

distributed without profit for personal, research and educational uses. **

>

> As for moving causing liver problems: I moved out of a problem environment

into a hotel room I felt was safe, but I developed burning rash within a short

time.

[Guest guest]

humm, I've had some itchiness sometimes too in the elbow and wrist area, I

rememberit was also somewhat rashy sometimes in the elbow for a while after

exposure. sometimes I get ichy and red areas on top of wrist and hands around

viens.

>

> Jeanine, you asked in another post about rashing and liver. At first there is

itching but no rash, skin looks normal, but as time goes by rash shows up. I've

heard this described as 'itching before rashing' or something like that. I

think it is because irritation is coming from inside and surfacing, instead of

being from the environment.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I put in search engine, " itch that rashes " and got eczema, a rash that itches

BEFORE it develops. Skin looks normal when itching begins and later rash

develops. If I add in 'liver', get that some people believe eczema is caused by

toxic liver and other such things:

http://tinyurl.com/y9avx2h

>

> humm, I've had some itchiness sometimes too in the elbow and wrist area, I

rememberit was also somewhat rashy sometimes in the elbow for a while after

exposure. sometimes I get ichy and red areas on top of wrist and hands around

viens.

>

[Guest guest]

p.s. so if I get a persistent itch in a tender skinned area that has nothing to

explain it, I take the CSM powder and it does go away.

>

> I put in search engine, " itch that rashes " and got eczema, a rash that itches

BEFORE it develops. Skin looks normal when itching begins and later rash

develops. If I add in 'liver', get that some people believe eczema is caused by

toxic liver and other such things:

>

> http://tinyurl.com/y9avx2h

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb, you've caught my attention! Thanks for sharing these posts with us, a

few lightbulbs have lit up for me! Where do you get CSM powder? What does

CSM stand for? I've tried googling CSM powder, the results are definitely

not what you are referring to here LOL

Thanks!

Jeri

[Guest guest]

It's a prescription item, cholestyramine. Some people who find it irritating

can tolerate Welchol better. If you find a willing doctor, you can get a

compounded version of cholestyramine without yellow dye and sugar in it.

Sometimes people tolerate it better that way, but I think it's the tiny fibers

that are irritating but I take it anyway since it works for me. Some people say

otc Milk Thistle. I've heard that people with liver trouble frequently take

Milk Thistle. There are other non prescription items people have luck with.

Some use activated charcoal. I have never tried the activated charcoal when I

get the itchy skin because I have the CSM and I know it has worked for me

before. *I also simultaneously back off any medicine that I think could be

causing it. Hope this helps.

>

> Barb, you've caught my attention! Thanks for sharing these posts with us, a

> few lightbulbs have lit up for me! Where do you get CSM powder? What does

> CSM stand for? I've tried googling CSM powder, the results are definitely

> not what you are referring to here LOL

>

> Thanks!

>

> Jeri

>