Re: Digest Number 2233

September 6, 2003

mannatech is regarded as a very dubious company here. I am not talking about

actual claims of efficacy, although i know of several people who have tried to

get hard data on that from the company and have failed.

1. employing promotion people whose history and research are dubious.

http://www.masmith.inspired.net.au/docs/mannatec.htm

2. pyramid selling so the product costs far more than it should.

http://www.mannatech.com/UK/CompPlan2002DirectBonus.asp?sMainMenu=Opportunity & sM\

ain2Menu=Benefits & sSubMenu=na & sSubMenuItem=CompPlan2002Overview.asp & sSubMenu2Ite\

m=CompPlan2002Production.asp & sSubMenu3Item=CPDirect

make your own ambrotose: http://www.lis.net.au/%7Edbird/glyconutrients.htm

3. tolerating very aggressive marketing practices targetting parents of disabled

children as sales people so they can " get products cheaply " . it is imoral of a

dr who is employed by the company to get his patients to market a product in

which he has an interest. i know of a queensland school where a patient of dr

raddatz called a meeting of parents of disabled children in order to sell

mannatech products.

" The committee recognised and acknowledged that there is a demand for

alternative therapy from patients as well as practitioners who find that a

proportion of patients do not have their expectations fulfilled through orthodox

medicine. Nevertheless medical practitioners who practise alternative medicine

should be conscious of the need for ensuring that their patients are fully

informed as to the nature of the practices being undertaken. Where those

practices depart too radically from orthodox medicine, the practitioner should

question whether his role is in fact one of a medical practitioner or some other

type of practitioner. If the latter should be the case then the doctor should

not operate under the guise of orthodox medicine. The fact of medical

registration and holding oneself out as a medical practitioner does lead to

patients accepting the treatment however radical given by the doctor as having

authenticity or credence. The patients in this case were misled into initially

accepting the reliability and authenticity of the manner in which Dr Steeper

used his machine. The committee believed that this practice under the guise of

orthodox medicine misled his patients and amounted to professional misconduct

.... "

http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Mannatech/raddatz.html

4. Mannatech advice appears to be contradictory.

http://www.natsoc.org.au/html/papers/djordj.pdf

On one hand they have this very good article recommending that sugars should

come from unprocessed fruits and vegetables so that the diet is high in fibre

and low gi, then they manufacture processed products using rice as a filler.

this means that the products are high gi, as far as i can see.

---------------------------------

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July 17, 2004

My daughter will soon be 3 in September. Right now she is so tiny, Smaller

than most 3 year olds . When do our little angels begin with the weight problem?

And where are the best places to buy their clothing when they begin the

weight gain.

I know that most DS kids do tend to have weight issues when they get older.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I may be able to purchase good

fitting clothes for my daughter when this time comes????

Thank You,

Sarenda Wentworth

June 13, 2005

Have any of you looked into the Lyme Disease epidemic. The reason it is

not diagnosed, is because there is no medicinal cure and hard to detect.

Do a LOT of surfing on Lyme. Then look into Lymephotos.com for healing.

Bernadette

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August 16, 2005

Just my own experience- I saw a chinese herbalist for a year for a heat

imbalance. He called it a clogged thoroughfare vessel.. I drank his tea three

times a day for months. One day I was on the internet reading about some of the

herbs I was drinking, as they were extremely bitter and nasty. One site

mentioned that several of them can cause bladder cancer. I Had cystoscopy

done and sure enough, I had a very tiny bladder tumor starting to grow. I have

since become good friends with a girl in china, whose mother is a physician.

She has said she would never trust chinese herbs. I no longer go that route.

I have always said there is always more than one way to get to where you want to

go. Michele

There are 9 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. How many current members of this group?

From: " Anne Devereaux "

2. Re: Opening the GB to allow entry of agents

From: " max "

3. Re: How many current members of this group?

From: mike taylor

4. Re: Opening the GB to allow entry of agents

From: " Dave Shelden "

5. Kefir instead of Yogurt?

From: " Neysa Dormish "

6. Re: Kefir instead of Yogurt?

From: " Lori "

7. Re: Chinese herbs for gallbladder polyps

From: lloyd " gebaña "

8. Re: Re: Chinese herbs for gallbladder polyps

From: " Lori "

9. Re: Re: Chinese herbs for gallbladder polyps

From: " max "

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:22:06 +0100

From: " Anne Devereaux "

Subject: How many current members of this group?

Regularly take a very good probiotic?

I believe and there are huge amounts of info if you search on a search

engine...that if the centre of our universe in our physical bodies...(

colon) in chinese tan tien energy centre.....is full of the wrong

bacteria...

than most or many forms of healing -cleansing-fasting etc will be no where

near as effective...

I have given this some thought and am amazed at even some of the best books

on cleansing do not put much if any emphasis on this most important area of

the body.

A clean colon...with the correct balance of good microbes is of paramount

importance to our overall health.

ANNE Uk

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:53:58 +0900

From: " max "

Subject: Re: Opening the GB to allow entry of agents

Dave

I saw the Chinese herbalist today. I will be posting to other groups about what

she said.

She made up a Chinese formula for me to heal the gallbladder, and improve the

heart and prostrate

because, she says, I also have problems with those organs (I did have congestive

prostatitis).

As for the stones. She does not want to flush any of the stones, she wants to

dissolve

them completely. And she does not want me to take any other supplements or herbs

apart from her mixture, as she says it will be detrimental. For example, Bill

Sardi recommends

taking his Gallbladder Support Formula 5 times a day for chronic gallbladder

problems,

and he also mentioned just now that milk thistle - in megadoses - retards

scarring of

the bile duct. Bill Sardi's supplements and advice are all based on scientific

studies and

not his opinions. Therefore it is very attractive to take these supplements,

especially

the milk thistle, for example, but I have been told to hold back, and take only

the Chinese

herbs. I am in a quandary about whether to hold back on the others or not.

Secondly, she told me that my gallbladder problem is due to excess heat in the

gallbladder which has caused the water to leave the organ, which is directly

responsible

for the crystallization into stones. Moreover, she says the reason for this

excess heat is

none other than some kind of radiation from my computer screen. She says that

even

TFT screens, and even laptops, are emitting some kind of heat waves which are

responsible for these health problems. She could be right. My cousin, who was a

computer programmer, died from some leukemia-related illness suddenly in his

30's.

A friend of a close friend, another computer programmer, died of colon cancer

last year.

Both of them worked in offices with hundreds of computers around. Gallbladder

disease

is very common in North India which has a flourishing computer industry, but is

non-

existent in South India. Dr. Henry Lai has established that cell phones are a

direct

cause of brain tumors. Two Swiss researchers have established that the use of

microwave

ovens is causing a surge in cancer deaths (they went to jail for attempting to

publish their

scientific data). I can only suggest that we use a filter on the computer

screen, but I

suspect that the circuitry under the keyboard, and the EM radiation it emits, is

to blame

here. I am not sure how to combat it. My sister advises placing living plants

nearby to

absorb the radiation.

In any case, my immediate problem therefore is hydration. Maybe we could assist

re-hydration by taking hyaluronic acid. Loss of this substance caused me to

suffer

vitreous detachments in both eyes, generating tons of floaters, and a retinal

detachment

in one eye which was repaired by surgery. Of course, the doctors blame the

vitreous

for this, not the fact that the vitreous lost HA and water, and could no longer

do its

job of protecting the retina (which is a huge lie on the part of the opthalmlogy

profession).

Finally, as to the olive oil and garlic flush to get rid of gallstones, you may

note that there is

no gallbladder disease in the Mediterranean either. But I won't be doing a flush

until

the stones are smaller or dissolved.

I look forward to your comments. Sorry for the long post.

Very best, Max.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Shelden

gallstones

Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Opening the GB to allow entry of agents

See below again.

----- Original Message -----

From: max

gallstones

Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:05 AM

Subject: Re: Opening the GB to allow entry of agents

Dave

Are you a herbalist?

Yes.

There is a commercial apricot kernel oil out there to use in salad dressings,

how would that do especially if mixed with olive oil?

The oil, while a fantastic cold pressed oil for your liver, gallbladder and

taste buds (not to mention hormones, brain, etc.) does not contain the amygdalin

(laetrile) and therefore is not relaxing to smooth muscle. In terms of your

salad dressing; delicious and healthy in many ways.

Dogwood and cherry bark look rather dangerous,

The cherry bark contains the same cyanic glycoside. These compounds are also

classified as cardiac glycosides and increase the strength of the beat while

relaxing the heart (long story). Quite safe in small quantities (2-4 " 00 " caps).

The really nice thing is it takes small quantities to get the job done because

it is a powerful herb. In large quantities can be too relaxing to the heart.

Anecdotally; does anyone remember Luden's wild cherry cough drops? It was not

about the flavor! Excellent cough suppressant also. Genus name for Jamaican

dogwood is pisidia, indicating it's use for stunning fish in streams. Again

quite safe in lower doses. NON OF THE ABOVE IS A PRESCRIPTION IN ANY WAY. I am

merely mentioning possible options. ALWAYS consult a qualified professional (or

amateur).

but I am trying to take some Chinese licorice tea to relax the gallbladder.

While highly anti-inflammatory I don't know of licorice being relaxing to smooth

muscle. Careful about blood pressure also.

One herbalist apparently simply recommended 2-3 garlic cloves, crushed, with 2-3

tablespoons

of olive oil for 10 days as a mild flush, and the person apparently got rid of

all her stones.

I am really happy for this individual, but if it worked this way all of the

time, gallstones would be non existent in Italy.

Don't know if she was eating normally during that period, or what. Garlic

apparently does

dissolve stones on contact, within about 6 hours if contact is maintained.

Ingestion is one thing. The digestion, assimilation, and transportation are

another. Unfortunately we do not ingest garlic (or anything else) and have it go

to where we want it unencumbered. I suppose we could inject garlic extract

directly into the gallbladder, but that is a bit to invasive for me.

The problem is

how to introduce it if the gallbladder is partially closed, bar use of dogwood.

Jamaican dogwood is only one option, any of the magnesium compounds mentioned on

this group also work well; just differently.

And how about

betaine-HCL (beetroot leaf) - would it have more chance of getting in there than

some of the

other materials.

The acid that seems to have the most effect with liver/gallbladder is Malic

(high in apples and other members of the rose family, some with the genus,

malvus)

Anyway, it is clear that we need two agents:

1) One agent to open the gallbladder when it is contorted and partially closed.

2) Another agent to get picked up in bile, something better than bile salts.

1) Magnesium is so relaxing to smooth muscle it is the treatment of choice for

stopping premature labor (magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) drip). And/or any of

the herbal smooth muscle relaxants.

2) The bile acids are actually excellent, hence the use of them by the medical

establishment to dissolve the stones (typical treatment is months not days, or

weeks). There is a plethora of herbal agents (many mentioned on this group and

in the archives) that are also very effective. Again, if your aim is to dissolve

we are talking months. But you can be very effective. If the stones are too

large to pass freely through the ducts, one would be well advised to work on

dissolution to the point that they are small enough or you run the risk of

getting them stuck. Neither pleasant, nor conducive to saving your gallbladder.

If they are small enough to pass freely, flushing them out through the many

flushes available in the archives and links is probably faster and easier.

Again Max, you have obviously done your homework, and are headed for success, my

only caution is that there may not be much dissolution over a one week period of

time. If the stones are small enough, this may not be a factor anyway. Good

luck. -Dave

Comments very welcome.

Max

August 16, 2005

I would like to know what herbs you are talking about Michele that cause bladder

cancer. It would be nice if you shared the specifics with us -- also the

internet site would be nice as well.

Lori

----- Original Message -----

From: michele broadbent

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: Digest Number 2233

Just my own experience- I saw a chinese herbalist for a year for a heat

imbalance. He called it a clogged thoroughfare vessel.. I drank his tea three

times a day for months. One day I was on the internet reading about some of the

herbs I was drinking, as they were extremely bitter and nasty. One site

mentioned that several of them can cause bladder cancer.

August 17, 2005

Yes - I would like to know what herbs you discovered were reported

to cause bladder cancer

----- Original Message -----

From: Lori

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:44 AM

Subject: Re: Digest Number 2233

I would like to know what herbs you are talking about Michele that cause

bladder cancer. It would be nice if you shared the specifics with us -- also

the internet site would be nice as well.

Lori

----- Original Message -----

From: michele broadbent

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: Digest Number 2233

Just my own experience- I saw a chinese herbalist for a year for a heat

imbalance. He called it a clogged thoroughfare vessel.. I drank his tea three

times a day for months. One day I was on the internet reading about some of the

herbs I was drinking, as they were extremely bitter and nasty. One site

mentioned that several of them can cause bladder cancer.

August 17, 2005

Yes. This information is vital, . We would like to know the

Internet site which says which herbs can cause bladder cancer.

Of course it is possible, but you must be specific. The use of

such herbs should obviously be discontinued. On the other hand, not

to trust beneficial herbs is a big mistake. Moreover, there are many Chinese

herbs

documented to fight cancer in the right combinations.

So, would you trust Western medecine, which only knows how to remove

diseased organs like the gallbladder and doesn't lift a finger to try to restore

their function? Such a Chinese physician does not deserve to be

called " doctor " .

In my case, after drinking the bitter tasting herbs for about 1 week,

the stools have changed from white to near normal. At the next blood

test, I will see whether the liver enzymes have dropped.

Again, the name of that Internet site please.....

----- Original Message -----

From: Lori

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:44 AM

Subject: Re: Digest Number 2233

I would like to know what herbs you are talking about Michele that cause

bladder cancer. It would be nice if you shared the specifics with us -- also

the internet site would be nice as well.

Lori

----- Original Message -----

From: michele broadbent

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: Digest Number 2233

Just my own experience- I saw a chinese herbalist for a year for a heat

imbalance. He called it a clogged thoroughfare vessel.. I drank his tea three

times a day for months. One day I was on the internet reading about some of the

herbs I was drinking, as they were extremely bitter and nasty. One site

mentioned that several of them can cause bladder cancer.

August 17, 2005

The herbs you are referring to are Guang Fang Ji and Mu Tong?

Yes, many of them contain aristolochic acid, which is carcinogenic

and renotoxic to humans. The level of toxicity will depend on the

duration and frequency of use, but I agree. We should avoid them.

I don't know if my mixture does contain them, but I will check.

Thankyou for this warning.

Max

----- Original Message -----

From: michele broadbent

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:20 AM