Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the open advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they are helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out in htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind and signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be counted. gary On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> writes: > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East coast, > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > Krasner wrote: > > > Katrina, > > > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just wondering > why every > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > actually > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > <katrinaj@...> > > writes: > > > Hi , > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. (Planning > on > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because we > were! > > > Having > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt with > a > > > number of > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number of > > > states and > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the area. I > > > guess I am > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too long > (in > > > military > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the majority > of > > > them are > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > beleifs > > > over > > > mine). > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning the > ropes > > > of how > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each other > pretty > > > well. I > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > > Katrina > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > > > > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > > > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every " intro " I > > > read > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > >writes: > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am just > now > > > > > able to > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and > 1 > > > 1/2. > > > > > They were > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older daughter, > > > who, if > > > > > left > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > raised as > > > > > much as > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > have to > > > > > make up a > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just comes > > > > > naturally?) > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > receive a > > > > > tetanus > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. He > was > > > hit by > > > > > a young > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled road. > The > > > > > doctors > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they were > > > getting > > > > > ready to > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on the > tray > > > and > > > > > noticed > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to the > > > nurse > > > > > who jumped > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a reaction > to > > > this > > > > > shot > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > discuss > > > it > > > > > with the > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me and > > > told me > > > > > I was > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > Another > > > > > nurse (bless > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed the > > > SINGLE > > > > > SHOT > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of him. > I > > > didn't > > > > > hear > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > visit. > > > > > Illness is > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones were > > > (the > > > > > youngest > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at around > age > > > two). > > > > > My son > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my daughter, > at > > > 8 > > > > > months and > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > healthiest > > > of > > > > > them all. > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection during > his > > > > > chicken pox > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure if > it > > > > > really was, > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his medication > > > after > > > > > one or > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, " Well, > I > > > see > > > > > that the > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that we > used > > > the > > > > > garlic > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence of > ear > > > > > infections. I > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the time of > his > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child getting > his > > > > > shots in > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What a > > > blessing! > > > > > After > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > shots, > > > > > something > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading every > book > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > lectures > > > and > > > > > hearing > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the pro > > > doctors > > > > > said > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > everyone. > > > That > > > > > was > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the young > boy > > > in > > > > > our town > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > wheelchair), > > > the > > > > > infant > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots to > go > > > > > overseas and > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the " outbreak " > of > > > > > whooping > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > became > > > much, > > > > > much > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it was > a > > > year > > > > > compared > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) than > those > > > who > > > > > were > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my mother > now > > > > > regularly > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. Beeing > > > seen by > > > > > > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole different > > > world > > > > > of guilt > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it has > given > > > me a > > > > > > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are back > in > > > the > > > > > civilian > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > give > > > them > > > > > the " I am > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I have > been > > > > > threatened > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, but > they > > > never > > > > > > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the doctors > would > > > not > > > > > see me > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son DID > attend > > > K > > > > > and first > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > million > > > and > > > > > one > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > curious, > > > they > > > > > had > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > vaccinate. > > > > > They > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the form, > > > saying > > > > > that it > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would have > to > > > show > > > > > proof > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would have > to > > > > > continue. > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would then > have > > > to > > > > > > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep of > the > > > > > family for > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > cousin, > > > a > > > > > military > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We were > told, > > > > > through > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with them > > > because > > > > > of the > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? Just > the > > > > > other day, I > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest baby > in > > > our > > > > > family, > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > think > > > that > > > > > that is > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to cry > > > over a > > > > > shot. > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > right??? > > > All > > > > > those > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff up, > > > right??? > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is going > off. > > > I > > > > > guess she > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful information > you > > > pass > > > > > on. > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > > > magazine > > > > > yesterday > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. It > > > mentions > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > jaundice > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > incompatibilities > > > > > to cord > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. This > is > > > an > > > > > older > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and cannot > get a > > > > > copy, I > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on > the > > > > > net. > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com > > > Install > > > > > now: > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 There are no federal or state laws requiring any child to be vaccinated. It would raise Constitutional issues if they tried. Instead, you have laws requiring vaccination only for school enrollment. Homeschooled kids don't have to be vaccinated by any law. As a resident of North Carolina, you might want to get on these dedicated activist's mail list and assist them: Jillani, Director People Advocating Vaccine Education (PAVE) PO Box 36701 Charlotte, NC 28236 werpave@... web site: www.unidial.com/~metroprint Alan , Director Citizens for Healthcare Freedom (CHF) P.O. Box 62282 Durham, NC 27715 aphillip@... Informed Parents' Vaccination Home Page: http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/informed.htm Vaccine Information Resource Center: http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/resrcntr.htm CHF is a nonprofit corp. dedicated to raising awareness about vaccine risks, failures, deaths and injuries, and to networking throughout North Carolina to organize support for the purpose of empowering citizens to obtain the legal right to make an informed choice. ----gary On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:27:35 -0400 " Peace HomoFreakian " <peace_b_untiu@...> writes: > Well, I recently introduced my Self to this list, and I don't > know if I said where we live now, so in case I didn't we live in > ville, NC, USA. The law I've seen regarding vaccinations here > is that children must Be immunised to enter school, but what > I'd like to know and haven't yet Been able to find out is whether > home-schooling our children (provided we ever actually get any) > will make it less of a hassle not to have them vaccinated. We intend > to home-school regardless, but I want to Be prepared when the > arguments start cropping up. I know a lot can change in six years > (which is of course the absolute earliest we'd have to worry about > that since I'm not even pregnant yet), and I want to know what I can > do to help facilitate changes in that time as well. Thanks > muchly for Bein' here! > > Be... > Peace........................ :-> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 That's the impression I got about NC, too, when I found a little blurb on their vax laws (that all children of school age have to show proof of vaccination or exemption). I couldn't find any details because I didn't know where to look, but I'm sure I can get some help with that here. :-> The other thing I hope to find out about is how to fill out exemption forms since I'm not affiliated with a religion. Some people here have mentioned exemption on the basis of philosophy. Is that more likely to Be contested? Would it Be a good idea to try and get some forms as they currently stand so I know what I need to establish to make it stick? Isn't it amazing that in sixty-five years we've gone from having no vaccinations to them Being something people are hardly allowed to live without, and that, even more incredibly, most people think we CAN'T live without? Ugh... And isn't it amazing, too, that all these new conditions and dis-eases (AIDS and all the other immune-deficiency disorders and high incidences of asthma and ADD and all it's brothers, sisters and cousins) have come about in the generations following the first mass vaccinations, but there are always other 'reasons' for these things according to the Great White-Coated Gods? Hmp. In any case, I'm glad y'all are here. :-> Be... Peace.......................... :-> Re: New to the List In a message dated 7/31/00 7:01:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gk-cfic@... writes:<< Instead, you havelaws requiring vaccination only for school enrollment. Homeschooled kidsdon't have to be vaccinated by any law. >>ACtually, here in PA, homeschoolers have to turn in the same vaccination forms to the state as those with children enrolled in school. I assume many other states have the same policy.www.diapers.bizland.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 There is a simple exemption form to sign for NC and you just need to keep it on the premises, where you operate your school. You can go the website: http://www.doa.state.nc.us/dnpe/ for what is required. My advice would be to KNOW your rights and what is truly required by law. I mentioned in another post that when we had to appear in court for a homeschooling issue, they didn't have a CLUE about the form. I had signed the exemption portion and all they could see was that the immun. schedule had been left blank. They kept telling me over and over and over that I just had to get that paper filled out. I don't know if they finally understood me that I had signed the exemption, or if they finally just let it go. (They seemed to be completely lost in some other areas,too, including homeschooling). Anyway, just be sure that you know your stuff. Don't let them tell you any different. And mentioned PAVE....Wonderful group! Good luck. If you have everything to back yourself up (Keep everything!) it is a smooth and wonderful ride. Get in touch with one of the homeschooling groups in your area (there are many in NC) for support. Again good luck and have fun! Katrina >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >Vaccinationsegroups, peace_b_untiu@... >Subject: Re: New to the List >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:39:21 -0400 > >There are no federal or state laws requiring any child to be vaccinated. >It would raise Constitutional issues if they tried. Instead, you have >laws requiring vaccination only for school enrollment. Homeschooled kids >don't have to be vaccinated by any law. > >As a resident of North Carolina, you might want to get on these dedicated >activist's mail list and assist them: > > Jillani, Director >People Advocating Vaccine Education (PAVE) >PO Box 36701 >Charlotte, NC 28236 >werpave@... >web site: www.unidial.com/~metroprint > >Alan , Director >Citizens for Healthcare Freedom (CHF) >P.O. Box 62282 >Durham, NC 27715 >aphillip@... >Informed Parents' Vaccination Home Page: >http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/informed.htm >Vaccine Information Resource Center: >http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/resrcntr.htm >CHF is a nonprofit corp. dedicated to raising awareness about vaccine >risks, failures, deaths and injuries, and to networking throughout North >Carolina to organize support for the purpose of empowering citizens to >obtain the legal right to make an informed choice. > >----gary > > > >On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:27:35 -0400 " Peace HomoFreakian " ><peace_b_untiu@...> writes: > > Well, I recently introduced my Self to this list, and I don't > > know if I said where we live now, so in case I didn't we live in > > ville, NC, USA. The law I've seen regarding vaccinations here > > is that children must Be immunised to enter school, but what > > I'd like to know and haven't yet Been able to find out is whether > > home-schooling our children (provided we ever actually get any) > > will make it less of a hassle not to have them vaccinated. We intend > > to home-school regardless, but I want to Be prepared when the > > arguments start cropping up. I know a lot can change in six years > > (which is of course the absolute earliest we'd have to worry about > > that since I'm not even pregnant yet), and I want to know what I can > > do to help facilitate changes in that time as well. Thanks > > muchly for Bein' here! > > > > Be... > > Peace........................ :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The reason I didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure mistake. Got lost in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 years ago, as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around doctors and other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors many times because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I used to be able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health organiztions and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could quickly be reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. Like I said before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being turned in to the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never followed up on me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when switching to my midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these people in these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) are trained to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many people are not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps they can snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that we really didn't have to. ??? At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and more about the subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much more armed when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much better than in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you that support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your laocation). I still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and will " find out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am also more aware of my rights to counter the blows. The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the freedom to speak with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, even by thier " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting your location is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking for you. Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I am gaining! Thank you all! Katrina >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >Vaccinationsegroups >Subject: Re: New to the List >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 > >Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > >There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the open >advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they are >helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out in >htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind and >signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be >counted. > >gary > > >On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> writes: > > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East coast, > > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > > > Krasner wrote: > > > > > Katrina, > > > > > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just wondering > > why every > > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > > actually > > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > <katrinaj@...> > > > writes: > > > > Hi , > > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. (Planning > > on > > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because we > > were! > > > > Having > > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt with > > a > > > > number of > > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number of > > > > states and > > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the area. I > > > > guess I am > > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too long > > (in > > > > military > > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the majority > > of > > > > them are > > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > > beleifs > > > > over > > > > mine). > > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning the > > ropes > > > > of how > > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each other > > pretty > > > > well. I > > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > > > Katrina > > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every " intro " I > > > > read > > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > >writes: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am just > > now > > > > > > able to > > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and > > 1 > > > > 1/2. > > > > > > They were > > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older daughter, > > > > who, if > > > > > > left > > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > > raised as > > > > > > much as > > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > > have to > > > > > > make up a > > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just comes > > > > > > naturally?) > > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > > receive a > > > > > > tetanus > > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. He > > was > > > > hit by > > > > > > a young > > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled road. > > The > > > > > > doctors > > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they were > > > > getting > > > > > > ready to > > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on the > > tray > > > > and > > > > > > noticed > > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to the > > > > nurse > > > > > > who jumped > > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a reaction > > to > > > > this > > > > > > shot > > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > > discuss > > > > it > > > > > > with the > > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me and > > > > told me > > > > > > I was > > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > > Another > > > > > > nurse (bless > > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed the > > > > SINGLE > > > > > > SHOT > > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of him. > > I > > > > didn't > > > > > > hear > > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > > visit. > > > > > > Illness is > > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones were > > > > (the > > > > > > youngest > > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at around > > age > > > > two). > > > > > > My son > > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my daughter, > > at > > > > 8 > > > > > > months and > > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > healthiest > > > > of > > > > > > them all. > > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection during > > his > > > > > > chicken pox > > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure if > > it > > > > > > really was, > > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his medication > > > > after > > > > > > one or > > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, " Well, > > I > > > > see > > > > > > that the > > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that we > > used > > > > the > > > > > > garlic > > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence of > > ear > > > > > > infections. I > > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the time of > > his > > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child getting > > his > > > > > > shots in > > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What a > > > > blessing! > > > > > > After > > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > > shots, > > > > > > something > > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading every > > book > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > lectures > > > > and > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the pro > > > > doctors > > > > > > said > > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > everyone. > > > > That > > > > > > was > > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the young > > boy > > > > in > > > > > > our town > > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > wheelchair), > > > > the > > > > > > infant > > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots to > > go > > > > > > overseas and > > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the " outbreak " > > of > > > > > > whooping > > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > > became > > > > much, > > > > > > much > > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it was > > a > > > > year > > > > > > compared > > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) than > > those > > > > who > > > > > > were > > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my mother > > now > > > > > > regularly > > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. Beeing > > > > seen by > > > > > > > > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole different > > > > world > > > > > > of guilt > > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it has > > given > > > > me a > > > > > > > > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are back > > in > > > > the > > > > > > civilian > > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > > give > > > > them > > > > > > the " I am > > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I have > > been > > > > > > threatened > > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, but > > they > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the doctors > > would > > > > not > > > > > > see me > > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son DID > > attend > > > > K > > > > > > and first > > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > > million > > > > and > > > > > > one > > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > > curious, > > > > they > > > > > > had > > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > vaccinate. > > > > > > They > > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the form, > > > > saying > > > > > > that it > > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would have > > to > > > > show > > > > > > proof > > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would have > > to > > > > > > continue. > > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would then > > have > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep of > > the > > > > > > family for > > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > > cousin, > > > > a > > > > > > military > > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We were > > told, > > > > > > through > > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with them > > > > because > > > > > > of the > > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? Just > > the > > > > > > other day, I > > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest baby > > in > > > > our > > > > > > family, > > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > > think > > > > that > > > > > > that is > > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to cry > > > > over a > > > > > > shot. > > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > right??? > > > > All > > > > > > those > > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff up, > > > > right??? > > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is going > > off. > > > > I > > > > > > guess she > > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful information > > you > > > > pass > > > > > > on. > > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > > > > magazine > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. It > > > > mentions > > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > jaundice > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > > incompatibilities > > > > > > to cord > > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. This > > is > > > > an > > > > > > older > > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and cannot > > get a > > > > > > copy, I > > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on > > the > > > > > > net. > > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com > > > > Install > > > > > > now: > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 Welcome Katrina, I think that is the case with most people on the list, just don't think about saying where they live. No great coverup. I'm trying to keep a list of where everyone lists so I can find a resource right away in each state. I'd like it if everyone put their first name and state in their signature! Especially those of you with the same first names - I get so confused which or Dawn or Kim it is! Sheri At 03:31 PM 07/31/2000 GMT, you wrote: >Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The reason I >didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure mistake. Got lost >in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 years ago, >as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around doctors and >other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors many times >because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I used to be >able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health organiztions >and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could quickly be >reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. Like I said >before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being turned in to >the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never followed up on >me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when switching to my >midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next >appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these people in >these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) are trained >to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many people are >not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps they can >snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that we really >didn't have to. ??? >At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and more about the >subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much more armed >when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much better than >in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you that >support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your laocation). I >still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and will " find >out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am also more >aware of my rights to counter the blows. > >The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the freedom to speak >with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, even by thier > " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting your location >is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking for you. >Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! >Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I am gaining! >Thank you all! >Katrina > > >>From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >>Vaccinationsegroups >>Subject: Re: New to the List >>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 >> >>Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! >> >>There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the open >>advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they are >>helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out in >>htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind and >>signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be >>counted. >> >>gary >> >> >>On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> writes: >> > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East coast, >> > prairies, etc) would be helpful. >> > >> > Krasner wrote: >> > >> > > Katrina, >> > > >> > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just wondering >> > why every >> > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people >> > actually >> > > live. I think it's important most of the time. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " >> > <katrinaj@...> >> > > writes: >> > > > Hi , >> > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. (Planning >> > on >> > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because we >> > were! >> > > > Having >> > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt with >> > a >> > > > number of >> > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number of >> > > > states and >> > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the area. I >> > > > guess I am >> > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too long >> > (in >> > > > military >> > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the majority >> > of >> > > > them are >> > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their >> > beleifs >> > > > over >> > > > mine). >> > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning the >> > ropes >> > > > of how >> > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each other >> > pretty >> > > > well. I >> > > > guess it will just take me a while. >> > > > Katrina >> > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >> > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >> > > > >Vaccinationsegroups >> > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List >> > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 >> > > > > >> > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every " intro " I >> > > > read >> > > > >always exclude geography?! >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " >> > > > <katrinaj@...> >> > > > >writes: >> > > > > > Hello Everyone, >> > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am just >> > now >> > > > > > able to >> > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. >> > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and >> > 1 >> > > > 1/2. >> > > > > > They were >> > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older daughter, >> > > > who, if >> > > > > > left >> > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and >> > raised as >> > > > > > much as >> > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they >> > have to >> > > > > > make up a >> > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just comes >> > > > > > naturally?) >> > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID >> > receive a >> > > > > > tetanus >> > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. He >> > was >> > > > hit by >> > > > > > a young >> > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled road. >> > The >> > > > > > doctors >> > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they were >> > > > getting >> > > > > > ready to >> > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on the >> > tray >> > > > and >> > > > > > noticed >> > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to the >> > > > nurse >> > > > > > who jumped >> > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a reaction >> > to >> > > > this >> > > > > > shot >> > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to >> > discuss >> > > > it >> > > > > > with the >> > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me and >> > > > told me >> > > > > > I was >> > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. >> > Another >> > > > > > nurse (bless >> > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed the >> > > > SINGLE >> > > > > > SHOT >> > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of him. >> > I >> > > > didn't >> > > > > > hear >> > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our >> > visit. >> > > > > > Illness is >> > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones were >> > > > (the >> > > > > > youngest >> > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at around >> > age >> > > > two). >> > > > > > My son >> > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my daughter, >> > at >> > > > 8 >> > > > > > months and >> > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the >> > healthiest >> > > > of >> > > > > > them all. >> > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection during >> > his >> > > > > > chicken pox >> > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure if >> > it >> > > > > > really was, >> > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his medication >> > > > after >> > > > > > one or >> > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, " Well, >> > I >> > > > see >> > > > > > that the >> > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that we >> > used >> > > > the >> > > > > > garlic >> > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence of >> > ear >> > > > > > infections. I >> > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the time of >> > his >> > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child getting >> > his >> > > > > > shots in >> > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What a >> > > > blessing! >> > > > > > After >> > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his >> > shots, >> > > > > > something >> > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading every >> > book >> > > > on >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to >> > lectures >> > > > and >> > > > > > hearing >> > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the pro >> > > > doctors >> > > > > > said >> > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for >> > everyone. >> > > > That >> > > > > > was >> > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the young >> > boy >> > > > in >> > > > > > our town >> > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a >> > wheelchair), >> > > > the >> > > > > > infant >> > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots to >> > go >> > > > > > overseas and >> > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the " outbreak " >> > of >> > > > > > whooping >> > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized >> > became >> > > > much, >> > > > > > much >> > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it was >> > a >> > > > year >> > > > > > compared >> > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) than >> > those >> > > > who >> > > > > > were >> > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my mother >> > now >> > > > > > regularly >> > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. Beeing >> > > > seen by >> > > > > > >> > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole different >> > > > world >> > > > > > of guilt >> > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it has >> > given >> > > > me a >> > > > > > >> > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are back >> > in >> > > > the >> > > > > > civilian >> > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we >> > give >> > > > them >> > > > > > the " I am >> > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I have >> > been >> > > > > > threatened >> > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, but >> > they >> > > > never >> > > > > > >> > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the doctors >> > would >> > > > not >> > > > > > see me >> > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son DID >> > attend >> > > > K >> > > > > > and first >> > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a >> > million >> > > > and >> > > > > > one >> > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so >> > curious, >> > > > they >> > > > > > had >> > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not >> > vaccinate. >> > > > > > They >> > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the form, >> > > > saying >> > > > > > that it >> > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would have >> > to >> > > > show >> > > > > > proof >> > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would have >> > to >> > > > > > continue. >> > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would then >> > have >> > > > to >> > > > > > >> > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep of >> > the >> > > > > > family for >> > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's >> > cousin, >> > > > a >> > > > > > military >> > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We were >> > told, >> > > > > > through >> > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with them >> > > > because >> > > > > > of the >> > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? Just >> > the >> > > > > > other day, I >> > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest baby >> > in >> > > > our >> > > > > > family, >> > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they >> > think >> > > > that >> > > > > > that is >> > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to cry >> > > > over a >> > > > > > shot. >> > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, >> > right??? >> > > > All >> > > > > > those >> > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff up, >> > > > right??? >> > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is going >> > off. >> > > > I >> > > > > > guess she >> > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. >> > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful information >> > you >> > > > pass >> > > > > > on. >> > > > > > Katrina >> > > > > > >> > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering >> > > > magazine >> > > > > > yesterday >> > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. It >> > > > mentions >> > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding >> > jaundice >> > > > from >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO >> > > > incompatibilities >> > > > > > to cord >> > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. This >> > is >> > > > an >> > > > > > older >> > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and cannot >> > get a >> > > > > > copy, I >> > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on >> > the >> > > > > > net. >> > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com >> > > > Install >> > > > > > now: >> > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >________________________________________________________________ >> > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >> > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >> > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >> > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >>________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> > > > http://www.hotmail.com >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________________________________________ >> > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >> > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >> > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>________________________________________________________________ >>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers Education, Homeopathic Education KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 Great idea Sheri Shelby, PA (southeastern) - knows 3 non-vax supporting doctors Sheri Nakken wrote: > Welcome Katrina, > I think that is the case with most people on the list, just don't think > about saying where they live. No great coverup. > > I'm trying to keep a list of where everyone lists so I can find a resource > right away in each state. I'd like it if everyone put their first name and > state in their signature! > Especially those of you with the same first names - I get so confused which > or Dawn or Kim it is! > Sheri > > At 03:31 PM 07/31/2000 GMT, you wrote: > >Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The reason I > >didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure mistake. Got lost > >in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 years ago, > >as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around doctors and > >other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors many times > >because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I used to be > >able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health organiztions > >and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could quickly be > >reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. Like I said > >before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being turned in to > >the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never followed up on > >me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when switching to my > >midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next > >appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these people in > >these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) are trained > >to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many people are > >not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps they can > >snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that we really > >didn't have to. ??? > >At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and more about the > >subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much more armed > >when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much better than > >in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you that > >support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your laocation). I > >still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and will " find > >out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am also more > >aware of my rights to counter the blows. > > > >The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the freedom to speak > >with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, even by thier > > " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting your location > >is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking for you. > >Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! > >Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I am gaining! > >Thank you all! > >Katrina > > > > > >>From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > >>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > >>Vaccinationsegroups > >>Subject: Re: New to the List > >>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 > >> > >>Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > >> > >>There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the open > >>advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they are > >>helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out in > >>htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind and > >>signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be > >>counted. > >> > >>gary > >> > >> > >>On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> writes: > >> > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East coast, > >> > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > >> > > >> > Krasner wrote: > >> > > >> > > Katrina, > >> > > > >> > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just wondering > >> > why every > >> > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > >> > actually > >> > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > >> > <katrinaj@...> > >> > > writes: > >> > > > Hi , > >> > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. (Planning > >> > on > >> > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because we > >> > were! > >> > > > Having > >> > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt with > >> > a > >> > > > number of > >> > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number of > >> > > > states and > >> > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the area. I > >> > > > guess I am > >> > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too long > >> > (in > >> > > > military > >> > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the majority > >> > of > >> > > > them are > >> > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > >> > beleifs > >> > > > over > >> > > > mine). > >> > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning the > >> > ropes > >> > > > of how > >> > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each other > >> > pretty > >> > > > well. I > >> > > > guess it will just take me a while. > >> > > > Katrina > >> > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > >> > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > >> > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > >> > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > >> > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > >> > > > > > >> > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every " intro " I > >> > > > read > >> > > > >always exclude geography?! > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > >> > > > <katrinaj@...> > >> > > > >writes: > >> > > > > > Hello Everyone, > >> > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am just > >> > now > >> > > > > > able to > >> > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > >> > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and > >> > 1 > >> > > > 1/2. > >> > > > > > They were > >> > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older daughter, > >> > > > who, if > >> > > > > > left > >> > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > >> > raised as > >> > > > > > much as > >> > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > >> > have to > >> > > > > > make up a > >> > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just comes > >> > > > > > naturally?) > >> > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > >> > receive a > >> > > > > > tetanus > >> > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. He > >> > was > >> > > > hit by > >> > > > > > a young > >> > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled road. > >> > The > >> > > > > > doctors > >> > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they were > >> > > > getting > >> > > > > > ready to > >> > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on the > >> > tray > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > noticed > >> > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to the > >> > > > nurse > >> > > > > > who jumped > >> > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a reaction > >> > to > >> > > > this > >> > > > > > shot > >> > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > >> > discuss > >> > > > it > >> > > > > > with the > >> > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me and > >> > > > told me > >> > > > > > I was > >> > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > >> > Another > >> > > > > > nurse (bless > >> > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed the > >> > > > SINGLE > >> > > > > > SHOT > >> > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of him. > >> > I > >> > > > didn't > >> > > > > > hear > >> > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > >> > visit. > >> > > > > > Illness is > >> > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones were > >> > > > (the > >> > > > > > youngest > >> > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at around > >> > age > >> > > > two). > >> > > > > > My son > >> > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my daughter, > >> > at > >> > > > 8 > >> > > > > > months and > >> > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > >> > healthiest > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > them all. > >> > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection during > >> > his > >> > > > > > chicken pox > >> > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure if > >> > it > >> > > > > > really was, > >> > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his medication > >> > > > after > >> > > > > > one or > >> > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, " Well, > >> > I > >> > > > see > >> > > > > > that the > >> > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that we > >> > used > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > garlic > >> > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence of > >> > ear > >> > > > > > infections. I > >> > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the time of > >> > his > >> > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child getting > >> > his > >> > > > > > shots in > >> > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What a > >> > > > blessing! > >> > > > > > After > >> > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > >> > shots, > >> > > > > > something > >> > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading every > >> > book > >> > > > on > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > >> > lectures > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > hearing > >> > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the pro > >> > > > doctors > >> > > > > > said > >> > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > >> > everyone. > >> > > > That > >> > > > > > was > >> > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the young > >> > boy > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > our town > >> > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > >> > wheelchair), > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > infant > >> > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots to > >> > go > >> > > > > > overseas and > >> > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the " outbreak " > >> > of > >> > > > > > whooping > >> > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > >> > became > >> > > > much, > >> > > > > > much > >> > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it was > >> > a > >> > > > year > >> > > > > > compared > >> > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) than > >> > those > >> > > > who > >> > > > > > were > >> > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my mother > >> > now > >> > > > > > regularly > >> > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. Beeing > >> > > > seen by > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole different > >> > > > world > >> > > > > > of guilt > >> > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it has > >> > given > >> > > > me a > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are back > >> > in > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > civilian > >> > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > >> > give > >> > > > them > >> > > > > > the " I am > >> > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I have > >> > been > >> > > > > > threatened > >> > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, but > >> > they > >> > > > never > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the doctors > >> > would > >> > > > not > >> > > > > > see me > >> > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son DID > >> > attend > >> > > > K > >> > > > > > and first > >> > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > >> > million > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > one > >> > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > >> > curious, > >> > > > they > >> > > > > > had > >> > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > >> > vaccinate. > >> > > > > > They > >> > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the form, > >> > > > saying > >> > > > > > that it > >> > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would have > >> > to > >> > > > show > >> > > > > > proof > >> > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would have > >> > to > >> > > > > > continue. > >> > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would then > >> > have > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep of > >> > the > >> > > > > > family for > >> > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > >> > cousin, > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > military > >> > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We were > >> > told, > >> > > > > > through > >> > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with them > >> > > > because > >> > > > > > of the > >> > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? Just > >> > the > >> > > > > > other day, I > >> > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest baby > >> > in > >> > > > our > >> > > > > > family, > >> > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > >> > think > >> > > > that > >> > > > > > that is > >> > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to cry > >> > > > over a > >> > > > > > shot. > >> > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > >> > right??? > >> > > > All > >> > > > > > those > >> > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff up, > >> > > > right??? > >> > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is going > >> > off. > >> > > > I > >> > > > > > guess she > >> > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > >> > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful information > >> > you > >> > > > pass > >> > > > > > on. > >> > > > > > Katrina > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > >> > > > magazine > >> > > > > > yesterday > >> > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. It > >> > > > mentions > >> > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > >> > jaundice > >> > > > from > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > >> > > > incompatibilities > >> > > > > > to cord > >> > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. This > >> > is > >> > > > an > >> > > > > > older > >> > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and cannot > >> > get a > >> > > > > > copy, I > >> > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >________________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on > >> > the > >> > > > > > net. > >> > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com > >> > > > Install > >> > > > > > now: > >> > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > >> > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > >> > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > >> > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >>________________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> > > > http://www.hotmail.com > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > ________________________________________________________________ > >> > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > >> > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > >> > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > >> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >>________________________________________________________________ > >>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > >>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > >>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA > Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm > ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE > DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. > Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin > International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers > Education, Homeopathic Education > KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA > CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Having power over yourself is an inoculation against the power of others. - J. Ehrlich In this age, which believes that there is a shortcut to everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest. - Henry ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 In a message dated 7/31/00 8:59:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, snakken@... writes: << I'd like it if everyone put their first name and state in their signature! >> Sara-mom to Nimet/Ohio(outside cleveland) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 , Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but people have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any info. about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If I am contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss things but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am not attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with honey then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask is for an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then probably 90% of them will come in their own time. Often, I have parents ask about one vaccine. I provide info. on all of them and in the end almost all of them contact me later and say they have suspended vaccines or decided to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinated. Just like I don't want someone to tell me I have to get vaccines, give my ss# or fill out the census complete form, etc...I don't want to tell someone else what they 'have' to do. I do encourage parents to stand up for what they believe. I explain that the fear that they feel will only expand for their grandchildren's children unless someone stands up and does something. That someone takes courage and I try to show that it is that person. That every person counts. Again, I'm only offering my opinion. In the beginning I was much more forceful but now I figure that everyone is entitled to their own opinion including how much they want to disclose, etc. I always remind parents that together we are a force to be dealt with...I mean really they can't jail everyone.... The story I often tell (and I know it is not perfectly correct but it goes something like this). I don't know who wrote (and I don't know I have it in perfect order...it is the point that is being conveyed)this but it conveys the point that can be tied to vaccines, voting, speaking up, anything that takes courage. Here is the story: During WWII the Nazis came for the Jews and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for the Catholics and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for Women and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for me and there was NO ONE to help me. You get the picture.. I have heard this quoted often but can't remember where or who wrote it or even if it is true. Hope this helps. Let's remember we are all on the same team at a very minimum....the minimum is that we believe that parents and individuals should have a choice to vaccinate and that there should be real informed consent. From there some are true anti-vaccine...some are on the fence...some are pro-choice publicly but anti-vaccine personally. The point is if we infight as a group we delay our message from reaching the public. Krasner wrote: > > Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > > There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the open > advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they are > helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out in > htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind and > signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be > counted. > > gary > > On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> writes: > > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East coast, > > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > > > Krasner wrote: > > > > > Katrina, > > > > > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just wondering > > why every > > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > > actually > > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > <katrinaj@...> > > > writes: > > > > Hi , > > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. (Planning > > on > > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because we > > were! > > > > Having > > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt with > > a > > > > number of > > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number of > > > > states and > > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the area. I > > > > guess I am > > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too long > > (in > > > > military > > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the majority > > of > > > > them are > > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > > beleifs > > > > over > > > > mine). > > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning the > > ropes > > > > of how > > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each other > > pretty > > > > well. I > > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > > > Katrina > > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every " intro " I > > > > read > > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > >writes: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am just > > now > > > > > > able to > > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and > > 1 > > > > 1/2. > > > > > > They were > > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older daughter, > > > > who, if > > > > > > left > > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > > raised as > > > > > > much as > > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > > have to > > > > > > make up a > > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just comes > > > > > > naturally?) > > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > > receive a > > > > > > tetanus > > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. He > > was > > > > hit by > > > > > > a young > > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled road. > > The > > > > > > doctors > > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they were > > > > getting > > > > > > ready to > > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on the > > tray > > > > and > > > > > > noticed > > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to the > > > > nurse > > > > > > who jumped > > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a reaction > > to > > > > this > > > > > > shot > > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > > discuss > > > > it > > > > > > with the > > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me and > > > > told me > > > > > > I was > > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > > Another > > > > > > nurse (bless > > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed the > > > > SINGLE > > > > > > SHOT > > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of him. > > I > > > > didn't > > > > > > hear > > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > > visit. > > > > > > Illness is > > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones were > > > > (the > > > > > > youngest > > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at around > > age > > > > two). > > > > > > My son > > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my daughter, > > at > > > > 8 > > > > > > months and > > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > healthiest > > > > of > > > > > > them all. > > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection during > > his > > > > > > chicken pox > > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure if > > it > > > > > > really was, > > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his medication > > > > after > > > > > > one or > > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, " Well, > > I > > > > see > > > > > > that the > > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that we > > used > > > > the > > > > > > garlic > > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence of > > ear > > > > > > infections. I > > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the time of > > his > > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child getting > > his > > > > > > shots in > > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What a > > > > blessing! > > > > > > After > > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > > shots, > > > > > > something > > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading every > > book > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > lectures > > > > and > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the pro > > > > doctors > > > > > > said > > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > everyone. > > > > That > > > > > > was > > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the young > > boy > > > > in > > > > > > our town > > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > wheelchair), > > > > the > > > > > > infant > > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots to > > go > > > > > > overseas and > > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the " outbreak " > > of > > > > > > whooping > > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > > became > > > > much, > > > > > > much > > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it was > > a > > > > year > > > > > > compared > > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) than > > those > > > > who > > > > > > were > > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my mother > > now > > > > > > regularly > > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. Beeing > > > > seen by > > > > > > > > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole different > > > > world > > > > > > of guilt > > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it has > > given > > > > me a > > > > > > > > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are back > > in > > > > the > > > > > > civilian > > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > > give > > > > them > > > > > > the " I am > > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I have > > been > > > > > > threatened > > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, but > > they > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the doctors > > would > > > > not > > > > > > see me > > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son DID > > attend > > > > K > > > > > > and first > > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > > million > > > > and > > > > > > one > > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > > curious, > > > > they > > > > > > had > > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > vaccinate. > > > > > > They > > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the form, > > > > saying > > > > > > that it > > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would have > > to > > > > show > > > > > > proof > > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would have > > to > > > > > > continue. > > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would then > > have > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep of > > the > > > > > > family for > > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > > cousin, > > > > a > > > > > > military > > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We were > > told, > > > > > > through > > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with them > > > > because > > > > > > of the > > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? Just > > the > > > > > > other day, I > > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest baby > > in > > > > our > > > > > > family, > > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > > think > > > > that > > > > > > that is > > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to cry > > > > over a > > > > > > shot. > > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > right??? > > > > All > > > > > > those > > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff up, > > > > right??? > > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is going > > off. > > > > I > > > > > > guess she > > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful information > > you > > > > pass > > > > > > on. > > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > > > > magazine > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. It > > > > mentions > > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > jaundice > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > > incompatibilities > > > > > > to cord > > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. This > > is > > > > an > > > > > > older > > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and cannot > > get a > > > > > > copy, I > > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on > > the > > > > > > net. > > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com > > > > Install > > > > > > now: > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > -- @... *************************************************************** Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you implement that decision is yours and yours alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2000 Report Share Posted July 31, 2000 You can never be too careful, especially on lists like this that deal with a Hot Topic. We have 300+ members, I do not know them all, heck I'm not sure even if I know half of them. We could have people lurking, I don't know. If anyone gets out of hand I can remove them. In the 2 years that this list has been running I have only had to remove one person, that is pretty good! List Owner of Vaccinations and Vaccine Info www.geocities.com/mom2q (my work in progress!) Mom of two great kids who are vaccine free! , Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but people have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any info. about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If I am contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss things but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am not attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with honey then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask is for an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then probably 90% of them will come in their own time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 I didn't know this. Are you saying that you have to submit completed forms stating your views opposing vaccination? Or are you saying that you have to submit forms indicating which vaccines your child had been given? In other words, homeschooled children are subject to the same vaccination requirements as public school children? Not what the school officials are telling you. But is that the actual law?? gary On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:32:16 EDT teresav26@... writes: > In a message dated 7/31/00 7:01:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > gk-cfic@... > writes: > > << Instead, you have > laws requiring vaccination only for school enrollment. Homeschooled > kids > don't have to be vaccinated by any law. >> > ACtually, here in PA, homeschoolers have to turn in the same > vaccination > forms to the state as those with children enrolled in school. I > assume many > other states have the same policy. > > > > www.diapers.bizland.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 Katrina Very sorry to pounce on you again. I didn't see who I was responding to. My comments were not directed at you. But rather the attitude that allows fear to overcome reason. I'm involved at the moment with trying to collect one paragraph statements from NYS residents that shows support for the exemption law. I want to fortify it, make it easier parents to claim it, and resist attempts to repeal it. The statements would remain confidential and read only be the legislators we trust. Would you believe that out of 200-400 parents that read the request, only about 40 in the entire state emailed a statement to me? And 90% came from small towns north of NYC. Obviously, I'm pretty pissed right now about this. But it is not about you. gary On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:31:31 GMT " Katrina Cloud " <katrinaj@...> writes: > Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The reason > I > didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure mistake. > Got lost > in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 > years ago, > as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around > doctors and > other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors > many times > because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I used > to be > able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health > organiztions > and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could > quickly be > reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. > Like I said > before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being turned > in to > the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never > followed up on > me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when switching > to my > midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next > appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these > people in > these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) are > trained > to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many > people are > not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps > they can > snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that we > really > didn't have to. ??? > At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and more > about the > subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much more > armed > when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much > better than > in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you > that > support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your > laocation). I > still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and will > " find > out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am also > more > aware of my rights to counter the blows. > > The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the freedom > to speak > with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, even > by thier > " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting your > location > is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking for > you. > Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! > Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I am > gaining! > Thank you all! > Katrina > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > >Vaccinationsegroups > >Subject: Re: New to the List > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 > > > >Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > > > >There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the > open > >advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they > are > >helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out > in > >htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind > and > >signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be > >counted. > > > >gary > > > > > >On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> > writes: > > > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East > coast, > > > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > > > > > Krasner wrote: > > > > > > > Katrina, > > > > > > > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just > wondering > > > why every > > > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > > > actually > > > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > writes: > > > > > Hi , > > > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. > (Planning > > > on > > > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because > we > > > were! > > > > > Having > > > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt > with > > > a > > > > > number of > > > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number > of > > > > > states and > > > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the > area. I > > > > > guess I am > > > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too > long > > > (in > > > > > military > > > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the > majority > > > of > > > > > them are > > > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > > > beleifs > > > > > over > > > > > mine). > > > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning > the > > > ropes > > > > > of how > > > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each > other > > > pretty > > > > > well. I > > > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > > > > Katrina > > > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every > " intro " I > > > > > read > > > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > > >writes: > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am > just > > > now > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 > and > > > 1 > > > > > 1/2. > > > > > > > They were > > > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older > daughter, > > > > > who, if > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > > > raised as > > > > > > > much as > > > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > > > have to > > > > > > > make up a > > > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just > comes > > > > > > > naturally?) > > > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > > > receive a > > > > > > > tetanus > > > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. > He > > > was > > > > > hit by > > > > > > > a young > > > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled > road. > > > The > > > > > > > doctors > > > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they > were > > > > > getting > > > > > > > ready to > > > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on > the > > > tray > > > > > and > > > > > > > noticed > > > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to > the > > > > > nurse > > > > > > > who jumped > > > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a > reaction > > > to > > > > > this > > > > > > > shot > > > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > > > discuss > > > > > it > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me > and > > > > > told me > > > > > > > I was > > > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > > > Another > > > > > > > nurse (bless > > > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed > the > > > > > SINGLE > > > > > > > SHOT > > > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of > him. > > > I > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > hear > > > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > > > visit. > > > > > > > Illness is > > > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones > were > > > > > (the > > > > > > > youngest > > > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at > around > > > age > > > > > two). > > > > > > > My son > > > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my > daughter, > > > at > > > > > 8 > > > > > > > months and > > > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > > healthiest > > > > > of > > > > > > > them all. > > > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection > during > > > his > > > > > > > chicken pox > > > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure > if > > > it > > > > > > > really was, > > > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his > medication > > > > > after > > > > > > > one or > > > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, > " Well, > > > I > > > > > see > > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that > we > > > used > > > > > the > > > > > > > garlic > > > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence > of > > > ear > > > > > > > infections. I > > > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the > time of > > > his > > > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child > getting > > > his > > > > > > > shots in > > > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What > a > > > > > blessing! > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > > > shots, > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading > every > > > book > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > > lectures > > > > > and > > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the > pro > > > > > doctors > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > > everyone. > > > > > That > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the > young > > > boy > > > > > in > > > > > > > our town > > > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > > wheelchair), > > > > > the > > > > > > > infant > > > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots > to > > > go > > > > > > > overseas and > > > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the > " outbreak " > > > of > > > > > > > whooping > > > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > > > became > > > > > much, > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it > was > > > a > > > > > year > > > > > > > compared > > > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) > than > > > those > > > > > who > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my > mother > > > now > > > > > > > regularly > > > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. > Beeing > > > > > seen by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole > different > > > > > world > > > > > > > of guilt > > > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it > has > > > given > > > > > me a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are > back > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > civilian > > > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > > > give > > > > > them > > > > > > > the " I am > > > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I > have > > > been > > > > > > > threatened > > > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, > but > > > they > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the > doctors > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > > see me > > > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son > DID > > > attend > > > > > K > > > > > > > and first > > > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > > > million > > > > > and > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > > > curious, > > > > > they > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > > vaccinate. > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the > form, > > > > > saying > > > > > > > that it > > > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would > have > > > to > > > > > show > > > > > > > proof > > > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would > have > > > to > > > > > > > continue. > > > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would > then > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep > of > > > the > > > > > > > family for > > > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > > > cousin, > > > > > a > > > > > > > military > > > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We > were > > > told, > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with > them > > > > > because > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? > Just > > > the > > > > > > > other day, I > > > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest > baby > > > in > > > > > our > > > > > > > family, > > > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > > > think > > > > > that > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to > cry > > > > > over a > > > > > > > shot. > > > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > > right??? > > > > > All > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff > up, > > > > > right??? > > > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is > going > > > off. > > > > > I > > > > > > > guess she > > > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful > information > > > you > > > > > pass > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > > > > > magazine > > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. > It > > > > > mentions > > > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > > jaundice > > > > > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > > > incompatibilities > > > > > > > to cord > > > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. > This > > > is > > > > > an > > > > > > > older > > > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and > cannot > > > get a > > > > > > > copy, I > > > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any > where on > > > the > > > > > > > net. > > > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from > mypoints.com > > > > > Install > > > > > > > now: > > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > visit: > > > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > visit: > > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 Find out what the law says. School officials will tell you anything. gary On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:11:49 -0400 " Peace HomoFreakian " <peace_b_untiu@...> writes: > That's the impression I got about NC, too, when I found a little > blurb on their vax laws (that all children of school age have to > show proof of vaccination or exemption). I couldn't find any details > because I didn't know where to look, but I'm sure I can get some > help with that here. :-> The other thing I hope to find out about is > how to fill out exemption forms since I'm not affiliated with a > religion. Some people here have mentioned exemption on the basis of > philosophy. Is that more likely to Be contested? Would it Be a good > idea to try and get some forms as they currently stand so I know > what I need to establish to make it stick? > Isn't it amazing that in sixty-five years we've gone from having > no vaccinations to them Being something people are hardly allowed to > live without, and that, even more incredibly, most people think we > CAN'T live without? Ugh... And isn't it amazing, too, that all these > new conditions and dis-eases (AIDS and all the other > immune-deficiency disorders and high incidences of asthma and ADD > and all it's brothers, sisters and cousins) have come about in the > generations following the first mass vaccinations, but there are > always other 'reasons' for these things according to the Great > White-Coated Gods? Hmp. In any case, I'm glad y'all are here. :-> > > Be... > Peace.......................... :-> > > Re: New to the List > > > In a message dated 7/31/00 7:01:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > gk-cfic@... > writes: > > << Instead, you have > laws requiring vaccination only for school enrollment. > Homeschooled kids > don't have to be vaccinated by any law. >> > ACtually, here in PA, homeschoolers have to turn in the same > vaccination > forms to the state as those with children enrolled in school. I > assume many > other states have the same policy. > > > > www.diapers.bizland.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 I also agree with sheri. When someone new writes an intro and says that they live in NYS, I know right away I can add them to my email list for legislative alerts for NYS. Since vax mandates are based upon state laws, this helps a lot. gary On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:15:54 -0400 Shelby <helminger@...> writes: > Great idea Sheri > > Shelby, PA (southeastern) - knows 3 non-vax supporting doctors > > Sheri Nakken wrote: > > > Welcome Katrina, > > I think that is the case with most people on the list, just don't > think > > about saying where they live. No great coverup. > > > > I'm trying to keep a list of where everyone lists so I can find a > resource > > right away in each state. I'd like it if everyone put their first > name and > > state in their signature! > > Especially those of you with the same first names - I get so > confused which > > or Dawn or Kim it is! > > Sheri > > > > At 03:31 PM 07/31/2000 GMT, you wrote: > > >Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The > reason I > > >didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure > mistake. Got lost > > >in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 > years ago, > > >as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around > doctors and > > >other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors > many times > > >because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I > used to be > > >able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health > organiztions > > >and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could > quickly be > > >reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. > Like I said > > >before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being > turned in to > > >the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never > followed up on > > >me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when > switching to my > > >midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next > > >appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these > people in > > >these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) > are trained > > >to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many > people are > > >not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps > they can > > >snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that > we really > > >didn't have to. ??? > > >At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and > more about the > > >subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much > more armed > > >when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much > better than > > >in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you > that > > >support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your > laocation). I > > >still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and > will " find > > >out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am > also more > > >aware of my rights to counter the blows. > > > > > >The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the > freedom to speak > > >with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, > even by thier > > > " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting > your location > > >is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking > for you. > > >Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! > > >Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I > am gaining! > > >Thank you all! > > >Katrina > > > > > > > > >>From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > >>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > >>Vaccinationsegroups > > >>Subject: Re: New to the List > > >>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 > > >> > > >>Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > > >> > > >>There are parents who have started organizations and are out in > the open > > >>advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when > they are > > >>helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped > out in > > >>htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your > mind and > > >>signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't > be > > >>counted. > > >> > > >>gary > > >> > > >> > > >>On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> > writes: > > >> > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East > coast, > > >> > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > >> > > > >> > Krasner wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Katrina, > > >> > > > > >> > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just > wondering > > >> > why every > > >> > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > > >> > actually > > >> > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > >> > <katrinaj@...> > > >> > > writes: > > >> > > > Hi , > > >> > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. > (Planning > > >> > on > > >> > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place > because we > > >> > were! > > >> > > > Having > > >> > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have > dealt with > > >> > a > > >> > > > number of > > >> > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a > number of > > >> > > > states and > > >> > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the > area. I > > >> > > > guess I am > > >> > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for > too long > > >> > (in > > >> > > > military > > >> > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the > majority > > >> > of > > >> > > > them are > > >> > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > > >> > beleifs > > >> > > > over > > >> > > > mine). > > >> > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning > the > > >> > ropes > > >> > > > of how > > >> > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each > other > > >> > pretty > > >> > > > well. I > > >> > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > >> > > > Katrina > > >> > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended > school. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > >> > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > >> > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > >> > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > >> > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every > " intro " I > > >> > > > read > > >> > > > >always exclude geography?! > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > >> > > > <katrinaj@...> > > >> > > > >writes: > > >> > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > >> > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I > am just > > >> > now > > >> > > > > > able to > > >> > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > >> > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 > 1/2 and > > >> > 1 > > >> > > > 1/2. > > >> > > > > > They were > > >> > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older > daughter, > > >> > > > who, if > > >> > > > > > left > > >> > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, > and > > >> > raised as > > >> > > > > > much as > > >> > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that > they > > >> > have to > > >> > > > > > make up a > > >> > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that > just comes > > >> > > > > > naturally?) > > >> > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son > DID > > >> > receive a > > >> > > > > > tetanus > > >> > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an > accident. He > > >> > was > > >> > > > hit by > > >> > > > > > a young > > >> > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and > graveled road. > > >> > The > > >> > > > > > doctors > > >> > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they > were > > >> > > > getting > > >> > > > > > ready to > > >> > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on > the > > >> > tray > > >> > > > and > > >> > > > > > noticed > > >> > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out > to the > > >> > > > nurse > > >> > > > > > who jumped > > >> > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a > reaction > > >> > to > > >> > > > this > > >> > > > > > shot > > >> > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off > to > > >> > discuss > > >> > > > it > > >> > > > > > with the > > >> > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing > me and > > >> > > > told me > > >> > > > > > I was > > >> > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate > shot. > > >> > Another > > >> > > > > > nurse (bless > > >> > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, > grabbed the > > >> > > > SINGLE > > >> > > > > > SHOT > > >> > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front > of him. > > >> > I > > >> > > > didn't > > >> > > > > > hear > > >> > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of > our > > >> > visit. > > >> > > > > > Illness is > > >> > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little > ones were > > >> > > > (the > > >> > > > > > youngest > > >> > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at > around > > >> > age > > >> > > > two). > > >> > > > > > My son > > >> > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my > daughter, > > >> > at > > >> > > > 8 > > >> > > > > > months and > > >> > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > >> > healthiest > > >> > > > of > > >> > > > > > them all. > > >> > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection > during > > >> > his > > >> > > > > > chicken pox > > >> > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for > sure if > > >> > it > > >> > > > > > really was, > > >> > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his > medication > > >> > > > after > > >> > > > > > one or > > >> > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, > " Well, > > >> > I > > >> > > > see > > >> > > > > > that the > > >> > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him > that we > > >> > used > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > > garlic > > >> > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only > incidence of > > >> > ear > > >> > > > > > infections. I > > >> > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the > time of > > >> > his > > >> > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child > getting > > >> > his > > >> > > > > > shots in > > >> > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. > What a > > >> > > > blessing! > > >> > > > > > After > > >> > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for > his > > >> > shots, > > >> > > > > > something > > >> > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading > every > > >> > book > > >> > > > on > > >> > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > >> > lectures > > >> > > > and > > >> > > > > > hearing > > >> > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even > the pro > > >> > > > doctors > > >> > > > > > said > > >> > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > >> > everyone. > > >> > > > That > > >> > > > > > was > > >> > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the > young > > >> > boy > > >> > > > in > > >> > > > > > our town > > >> > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > >> > wheelchair), > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > > infant > > >> > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his > shots to > > >> > go > > >> > > > > > overseas and > > >> > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the > " outbreak " > > >> > of > > >> > > > > > whooping > > >> > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were > immunized > > >> > became > > >> > > > much, > > >> > > > > > much > > >> > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, > it was > > >> > a > > >> > > > year > > >> > > > > > compared > > >> > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) > than > > >> > those > > >> > > > who > > >> > > > > > were > > >> > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my > mother > > >> > now > > >> > > > > > regularly > > >> > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. > Beeing > > >> > > > seen by > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole > different > > >> > > > world > > >> > > > > > of guilt > > >> > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it > has > > >> > given > > >> > > > me a > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are > back > > >> > in > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > > civilian > > >> > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, > we > > >> > give > > >> > > > them > > >> > > > > > the " I am > > >> > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I > have > > >> > been > > >> > > > > > threatened > > >> > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, > but > > >> > they > > >> > > > never > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the > doctors > > >> > would > > >> > > > not > > >> > > > > > see me > > >> > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son > DID > > >> > attend > > >> > > > K > > >> > > > > > and first > > >> > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me > a > > >> > million > > >> > > > and > > >> > > > > > one > > >> > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just > so > > >> > curious, > > >> > > > they > > >> > > > > > had > > >> > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > >> > vaccinate. > > >> > > > > > They > > >> > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of > the form, > > >> > > > saying > > >> > > > > > that it > > >> > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I > would have > > >> > to > > >> > > > show > > >> > > > > > proof > > >> > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason > would have > > >> > to > > >> > > > > > continue. > > >> > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I > would then > > >> > have > > >> > > > to > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black > sheep of > > >> > the > > >> > > > > > family for > > >> > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my > husband's > > >> > cousin, > > >> > > > a > > >> > > > > > military > > >> > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We > were > > >> > told, > > >> > > > > > through > > >> > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with > them > > >> > > > because > > >> > > > > > of the > > >> > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? > Just > > >> > the > > >> > > > > > other day, I > > >> > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest > baby > > >> > in > > >> > > > our > > >> > > > > > family, > > >> > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think > they > > >> > think > > >> > > > that > > >> > > > > > that is > > >> > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them > to cry > > >> > > > over a > > >> > > > > > shot. > > >> > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > >> > right??? > > >> > > > All > > >> > > > > > those > > >> > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that > stuff up, > > >> > > > right??? > > >> > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is > going > > >> > off. > > >> > > > I > > >> > > > > > guess she > > >> > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > >> > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful > information > > >> > you > > >> > > > pass > > >> > > > > > on. > > >> > > > > > Katrina > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of > Mothering > > >> > > > magazine > > >> > > > > > yesterday > > >> > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal > Jaundice. It > > >> > > > mentions > > >> > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > >> > jaundice > > >> > > > from > > >> > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > >> > > > incompatibilities > > >> > > > > > to cord > > >> > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer > 1982. This > > >> > is > > >> > > > an > > >> > > > > > older > > >> > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and > cannot > > >> > get a > > >> > > > > > copy, I > > >> > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any > where on > > >> > the > > >> > > > > > net. > > >> > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from > mypoints.com > > >> > > > Install > > >> > > > > > now: > > >> > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > >> > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > >> > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > visit: > > >> > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>_______________________________________________________________________ _ > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > >> > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > >> > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > visit: > > >> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >>________________________________________________________________ > > >>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > >>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > >>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA > > Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA > > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm > > ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL > ADVICE. THE > > DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. > > Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours > > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin > > International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine > Dangers > > Education, Homeopathic Education > > KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA > > CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters > > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ > Having power over yourself is an inoculation > against the power of others. > - J. Ehrlich > > In this age, which believes that there is a shortcut to > everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that > the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest. > - Henry > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 from gary: , I agree with you. I would only like to know what state people are from for the purposes of giving them timely information about their state law, namely NY. As an activist, I'm sure you would also like that information. Sometimes, a parent will even post a question about exemptions for their child and not tell us the state they live in. I have been an activist since 1980. I see too many parents taking, and not giving. Once they get their exemption for their kids, they don't want anything to do with our movement. They even criticize my collegue for charging a small fee for counseling them on the exemption law and how to obtain it. This is a college educated person who could have persued a careeer. But instead, became an activist and specialized in the area of the law. Some parents need her services, because they are incapable of getting an exemption. Would you believe that most of them would not even write or call her to give her feedback about their case? And few have responded to my request for a statement in support for our exemption law. Being cautious is what we advise parents. But there's no excuse for being short sighted and not realizing that organizing is necessary to protect your rights. So I agree with you. But after a period of time, too many parents are staying on the sidelines and allowing others to carry the load, and take it on the chin. I get a letter twice a month from Alan Yurko, now serving a life sentence for allegedly shaking his infant to death. I can't help but wonder whether he (and others) would be there if more parents had been more outspoken as a group sooner about medical mandates and how they are applied by CPS agents. The parents that are trying to remain undercover will eventually get on a CPS watchlist no matter how careful they are. Are they breastfeeding too long? Did the refuse ritalin for their kid? Did they refuse an antibiotic from the school nurse after their child scrapped his knee in class? It's a long list. Vaccination is only one part of it. I'm not a parent. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a finger to fight for themselves? Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do in my place? IMPORTANT Confidential Information Request. PLEASE RESPOND Attention: Any NYS Residents Who 1--Hope Someday To Claim The Religious Exemption, OR 2--Had Claimed The Exemption, But The School Gave You A Problem, OR 3--Had Claimed The Exemption And Were NOT Given Any Problems. 4--Support The Law That Allows People, And Not Doctors, To Make Medical Choices For Themselves. WHAT WE NEED: We would like you to email to us at least a one paragraph statement describing your experience with school officials when you had claimed the personal religious exemption for your child. If you have not done so yet, but hope to take advantage of the exemption someday, then just explain why you’re glad that the law provides this exemption for personally held religious beliefs. Maybe you could say something like, “it should be the absolute right of any responsible and conscientious parent to decide which chemicals are injected into their children, based upon their own philosophical beliefs and scientific research. I therefore would explore and consider all the legal exemptions to any medical mandates imposed upon me. I am happy to learn that parents in our state have been provided with such a legal exemption at their disposal.” If you had claimed it, then describe any extra demands that were made upon you by school officials, beyond the first written letter you had delivered to the school. If they denied your claim, then describe the reasons they gave for denying it, and whether or not you were subsequently able to reverse their decision. If you already had exemption status and the school or health officials had attempted, or succeeded, in rescinding your exemption, then describe what happened. Even if they gave you no problem, please send me a short paragraph describing what you did and when you claimed it. WHY WE NEED THIS INFORMATION Sharon Kimmelman (Vaccination Alternatives) and I want to see if we can put a stop to the unlawful demands placed upon parents who claim this exemption, and the subsequent denials to qualify for the exemption. Some of the demands made by School and Health officials have been unlawful, extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise not stated in the NYS law. This, together with other novel tricks, are intended to deny or rescind vaccination exemptions. Parents that do not fully understand their rights under the law, and are not prepared to correctly respond to the evolving tactics from school officials, are falling victim to these tactics. Most parents don’t know that: 1--They are not required to answer ANY questions about their religious beliefs whatsoever. A simple written statement that vaccination is not consistent with their personal religious beliefs is all that is required. 2--They do not have to be a member of any religion whose tenets oppose vaccination. 3--They do not have to write their exemption claim on a paper with the letterhead of any church, or signed by any clergy. 4--They do not have to periodically “update” their exemption status with subsequent letters to the school. 5--The school has absolutely no right to determine whether the religious views of the parents are sincere. 6--The school is not permitted to determine that your religious views are “feigned or fraudulent”. A District Attorney must prove it to a judge. 7--The school cannot delay your child’s entry into school once you have submitted your first letter notifying them that you wish to claim the exemption. WHAT WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE Your short statements will not be turned over to any school or health officials. But in using them, we hope to demonstrate to one or more NY State Legislators that many State residents wish to take advantage of the exemption, and that many others have been unlawfully dealt with by the School and Public Health Systems. We will also focus on specific cases that are particularly flagrant. With the assistance of these lawmakers, we hope to see an end to the abuses. YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES While your names will be kept confidential, it is important to prove to the legislators that we contact that this problem is widespread and is happening to real, verifiable people. SO PLEASE PUT YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBERS AT THE END OF YOUR STATEMENT, after your one paragraph (or more) statement. Email it to: GK-CFIC@... FORWARD THIS REQUEST TO OTHER N.Y.S. PARENTS YOU MAY KNOW. Thanks, Coalition For Informed Choice. Krasner, Director 188-34 87th Drive, #4B, Hollis, NY 11423 fax/phone: 718-479-2939, email: gk-cfic@... Sharon Kimmelman Vaccination Alternatives POB 346 New York, NY 10023 212-873-5051 ofc phone - fax va-sk@... On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:04:42 -0400 <lisa@...> writes: > , > Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but people > have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any > info. > about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If I am > contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss > things > but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am not > attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with > honey > then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask is > for > an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then > probably > 90% of them will come in their own time. Often, I have parents ask > about one vaccine. I provide info. on all of them and in the end > almost > all of them contact me later and say they have suspended vaccines or > decided to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinated. Just like I > don't > want someone to tell me I have to get vaccines, give my ss# or fill > out > the census complete form, etc...I don't want to tell someone else > what > they 'have' to do. I do encourage parents to stand up for what they > believe. I explain that the fear that they feel will only expand for > their grandchildren's children unless someone stands up and does > something. That someone takes courage and I try to show that it is > that > person. That every person counts. Again, I'm only offering my > opinion. > In the beginning I was much more forceful but now I figure that > everyone > is entitled to their own opinion including how much they want to > disclose, etc. I always remind parents that together we are a force > to > be dealt with...I mean really they can't jail everyone.... > > The story I often tell (and I know it is not perfectly correct but > it > goes something like this). I don't know who wrote (and I don't know > I > have it in perfect order...it is the point that is being > conveyed)this > but it conveys the point that can be tied to vaccines, voting, > speaking > up, anything that takes courage. Here is the story: > > During WWII the Nazis came for the Jews and I did nothing. Then the > Nazis came for the Catholics and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came > for > Women and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for me and there was NO > ONE > to help me. > > You get the picture.. I have heard this quoted often but can't > remember > where or who wrote it or even if it is true. > > > Hope this helps. Let's remember we are all on the same team at a > very > minimum....the minimum is that we believe that parents and > individuals > should have a choice to vaccinate and that there should be real > informed > consent. From there some are true anti-vaccine...some are on the > fence...some are pro-choice publicly but anti-vaccine personally. > The > point is if we infight as a group we delay our message from reaching > the > public. > > > > > > Krasner wrote: > > snip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 ot, but what is lurking? Christin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2000 Report Share Posted August 1, 2000 When people join the list and just read the messages but don't post. List Owner of Vaccinations and Vaccine Info www.geocities.com/mom2q (my work in progress!) Mom of two great kids who are vaccine free! Re: New to the List ot, but what is lurking? Christin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 In a message dated 8/2/00 5:40:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gk-cfic@... writes: << In other words, homeschooled children are subject to the same vaccination requirements as public school children? Not what the school officials are telling you. But is that the actual law?? >> As far as I know you have to keep records of what vaccinations the child has received, or keep a record of exemption. Pretty much the same as if the child was in school. Chelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 In a message dated 8/2/00 8:40:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gk-cfic@... writes: << I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a finger to fight for themselves? Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do in my place? >> gary, i responded and i DO appreciate all that you and sharon are doing on behalf of parents and kids in NYS!! please, don't give up--we need people like you!! thnak you, brigit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 By the way .. I agree there aren't enough parents standing up for themselves. Even the ones that choose to vaccinate after educating themselves should stand up and be counted. You just have to support the educated choice not the decision to not vaccinate. But do you we really live in a free country. The first thing officials do a lot of the times is threaten to call social services. This doesn't seem like a free country to me when many parents vaccinate out of fear. Just for the record, I responded to your email - before I read this one. I have offered at one drs. office in NYC to take part in a study of unvaccinated children that his class is going to do. But in order to " come out " one has to be very confident in their decision and not worry about looking over the shoulder for the gov't. And lastly, thanks for all you have done for every parent out there and all future parents and most importantly the children! Kim Mom to Sami (11 mo) >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >Vaccinationsegroups >CC: franswrld@..., va-sk@... >Subject: Re: New to the List >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:05:47 -0400 > >from gary: > >, > >I agree with you. > >I would only like to know what state people are from for the purposes of >giving them timely information about their state law, namely NY. As an >activist, I'm sure you would also like that information. Sometimes, a >parent will even post a question about exemptions for their child and not >tell us the state they live in. > >I have been an activist since 1980. I see too many parents taking, and >not giving. Once they get their exemption for their kids, they don't want >anything to do with our movement. They even criticize my collegue for >charging a small fee for counseling them on the exemption law and how to >obtain it. This is a college educated person who could have persued a >careeer. But instead, became an activist and specialized in the area of >the law. Some parents need her services, because they are incapable of >getting an exemption. Would you believe that most of them would not even >write or call her to give her feedback about their case? > >And few have responded to my request for a statement in support for our >exemption law. Being cautious is what we advise parents. But there's no >excuse for being short sighted and not realizing that organizing is >necessary to protect your rights. > >So I agree with you. But after a period of time, too many parents are >staying on the sidelines and allowing others to carry the load, and take >it on the chin. I get a letter twice a month from Alan Yurko, now serving >a life sentence for allegedly shaking his infant to death. I can't help >but wonder whether he (and others) would be there if more parents had >been more outspoken as a group sooner about medical mandates and how they >are applied by CPS agents. The parents that are trying to remain >undercover will eventually get on a CPS watchlist no matter how careful >they are. Are they breastfeeding too long? Did the refuse ritalin for >their kid? Did they refuse an antibiotic from the school nurse after >their child scrapped his knee in class? It's a long list. Vaccination is >only one part of it. > >I'm not a parent. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to >continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a finger to >fight for themselves? > >Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do in my >place? > > >IMPORTANT Confidential Information Request. >PLEASE RESPOND > >Attention: >Any NYS Residents Who >1--Hope Someday To Claim The Religious Exemption, OR >2--Had Claimed The Exemption, But The School Gave You A Problem, OR >3--Had Claimed The Exemption And Were NOT Given Any Problems. >4--Support The Law That Allows People, And Not Doctors, To Make Medical >Choices For Themselves. > >WHAT WE NEED: >We would like you to email to us at least a one paragraph statement >describing your experience with school officials when you had claimed the >personal religious exemption for your child. If you have not done so yet, >but hope to take advantage of the exemption someday, then just explain >why you’re glad that the law provides this exemption for personally held >religious beliefs. Maybe you could say something like, “it should be the >absolute right of any responsible and conscientious parent to decide >which chemicals are injected into their children, based upon their own >philosophical beliefs and scientific research. I therefore would explore >and consider all the legal exemptions to any medical mandates imposed >upon me. I am happy to learn that parents in our state have been provided >with such a legal exemption at their disposal.” > >If you had claimed it, then describe any extra demands that were made >upon you by school officials, beyond the first written letter you had >delivered to the school. If they denied your claim, then describe the >reasons they gave for denying it, and whether or not you were >subsequently able to reverse their decision. If you already had exemption >status and the school or health officials had attempted, or succeeded, in >rescinding your exemption, then describe what happened. > >Even if they gave you no problem, please send me a short paragraph >describing what you did and when you claimed it. > >WHY WE NEED THIS INFORMATION >Sharon Kimmelman (Vaccination Alternatives) and I want to see if we can >put a stop to the unlawful demands placed upon parents who claim this >exemption, and the subsequent denials to qualify for the exemption. > >Some of the demands made by School and Health officials have been >unlawful, extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise not stated in the >NYS law. This, together with other novel tricks, are intended to deny or >rescind vaccination exemptions. Parents that do not fully understand >their rights under the law, and are not prepared to correctly respond to >the evolving tactics from school officials, are falling victim to these >tactics. > >Most parents don’t know that: >1--They are not required to answer ANY questions about their religious >beliefs whatsoever. A simple written statement that vaccination is not >consistent with their personal religious beliefs is all that is required. >2--They do not have to be a member of any religion whose tenets oppose >vaccination. >3--They do not have to write their exemption claim on a paper with the >letterhead of any church, or signed by any clergy. >4--They do not have to periodically “update” their exemption status with >subsequent letters to the school. >5--The school has absolutely no right to determine whether the religious >views of the parents are sincere. >6--The school is not permitted to determine that your religious views are >“feigned or fraudulent”. A District Attorney must prove it to a judge. >7--The school cannot delay your child’s entry into school once you have >submitted your first letter notifying them that you wish to claim the >exemption. > >WHAT WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE >Your short statements will not be turned over to any school or health >officials. But in using them, we hope to demonstrate to one or more NY >State Legislators that many State residents wish to take advantage of the >exemption, and that many others have been unlawfully dealt with by the >School and Public Health Systems. We will also focus on specific cases >that are particularly flagrant. With the assistance of these lawmakers, >we hope to see an end to the abuses. > > >YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES >While your names will be kept confidential, it is important to prove to >the legislators that we contact that this problem is widespread and is >happening to real, verifiable people. SO PLEASE PUT YOUR NAMES AND >ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBERS AT THE END OF YOUR STATEMENT, after your one >paragraph (or more) statement. > >Email it to: >GK-CFIC@... > >FORWARD THIS REQUEST TO OTHER N.Y.S. PARENTS YOU MAY KNOW. > >Thanks, > > >Coalition For Informed Choice. > Krasner, Director >188-34 87th Drive, #4B, Hollis, NY 11423 >fax/phone: 718-479-2939, email: gk-cfic@... > >Sharon Kimmelman >Vaccination Alternatives >POB 346 >New York, NY 10023 >212-873-5051 ofc phone - fax >va-sk@... > > > > > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:04:42 -0400 <lisa@...> writes: > > , > > Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but people > > have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any > > info. > > about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If I am > > contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss > > things > > but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am not > > attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with > > honey > > then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask is > > for > > an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then > > probably > > 90% of them will come in their own time. Often, I have parents ask > > about one vaccine. I provide info. on all of them and in the end > > almost > > all of them contact me later and say they have suspended vaccines or > > decided to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinated. Just like I > > don't > > want someone to tell me I have to get vaccines, give my ss# or fill > > out > > the census complete form, etc...I don't want to tell someone else > > what > > they 'have' to do. I do encourage parents to stand up for what they > > believe. I explain that the fear that they feel will only expand for > > their grandchildren's children unless someone stands up and does > > something. That someone takes courage and I try to show that it is > > that > > person. That every person counts. Again, I'm only offering my > > opinion. > > In the beginning I was much more forceful but now I figure that > > everyone > > is entitled to their own opinion including how much they want to > > disclose, etc. I always remind parents that together we are a force > > to > > be dealt with...I mean really they can't jail everyone.... > > > > The story I often tell (and I know it is not perfectly correct but > > it > > goes something like this). I don't know who wrote (and I don't know > > I > > have it in perfect order...it is the point that is being > > conveyed)this > > but it conveys the point that can be tied to vaccines, voting, > > speaking > > up, anything that takes courage. Here is the story: > > > > During WWII the Nazis came for the Jews and I did nothing. Then the > > Nazis came for the Catholics and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came > > for > > Women and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for me and there was NO > > ONE > > to help me. > > > > You get the picture.. I have heard this quoted often but can't > > remember > > where or who wrote it or even if it is true. > > > > > > Hope this helps. Let's remember we are all on the same team at a > > very > > minimum....the minimum is that we believe that parents and > > individuals > > should have a choice to vaccinate and that there should be real > > informed > > consent. From there some are true anti-vaccine...some are on the > > fence...some are pro-choice publicly but anti-vaccine personally. > > The > > point is if we infight as a group we delay our message from reaching > > the > > public. > > > > > > > > > > > > Krasner wrote: > > > snip > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 It's hard reaching people and trying to get them active when the only faith they have is in the gov't so they remain ignorant of anything else. I went through the same thing regarding the legalized kidnapping of kids...people began to believe ONLY when they saw something about it on the news...ahhh. I think you should hang in there but don't stress yourself out. , NYC Re: New to the List >from gary: > >, > >I agree with you. > >I would only like to know what state people are from for the purposes of >giving them timely information about their state law, namely NY. As an >activist, I'm sure you would also like that information. Sometimes, a >parent will even post a question about exemptions for their child and not >tell us the state they live in. > >I have been an activist since 1980. I see too many parents taking, and >not giving. Once they get their exemption for their kids, they don't want >anything to do with our movement. They even criticize my collegue for >charging a small fee for counseling them on the exemption law and how to >obtain it. This is a college educated person who could have persued a >careeer. But instead, became an activist and specialized in the area of >the law. Some parents need her services, because they are incapable of >getting an exemption. Would you believe that most of them would not even >write or call her to give her feedback about their case? > >And few have responded to my request for a statement in support for our >exemption law. Being cautious is what we advise parents. But there's no >excuse for being short sighted and not realizing that organizing is >necessary to protect your rights. > >So I agree with you. But after a period of time, too many parents are >staying on the sidelines and allowing others to carry the load, and take >it on the chin. I get a letter twice a month from Alan Yurko, now serving >a life sentence for allegedly shaking his infant to death. I can't help >but wonder whether he (and others) would be there if more parents had >been more outspoken as a group sooner about medical mandates and how they >are applied by CPS agents. The parents that are trying to remain >undercover will eventually get on a CPS watchlist no matter how careful >they are. Are they breastfeeding too long? Did the refuse ritalin for >their kid? Did they refuse an antibiotic from the school nurse after >their child scrapped his knee in class? It's a long list. Vaccination is >only one part of it. > >I'm not a parent. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to >continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a finger to >fight for themselves? > >Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do in my >place? > > >IMPORTANT Confidential Information Request. >PLEASE RESPOND > >Attention: >Any NYS Residents Who >1--Hope Someday To Claim The Religious Exemption, OR >2--Had Claimed The Exemption, But The School Gave You A Problem, OR >3--Had Claimed The Exemption And Were NOT Given Any Problems. >4--Support The Law That Allows People, And Not Doctors, To Make Medical >Choices For Themselves. > >WHAT WE NEED: >We would like you to email to us at least a one paragraph statement >describing your experience with school officials when you had claimed the >personal religious exemption for your child. If you have not done so yet, >but hope to take advantage of the exemption someday, then just explain >why you’re glad that the law provides this exemption for personally held >religious beliefs. Maybe you could say something like, “it should be the >absolute right of any responsible and conscientious parent to decide >which chemicals are injected into their children, based upon their own >philosophical beliefs and scientific research. I therefore would explore >and consider all the legal exemptions to any medical mandates imposed >upon me. I am happy to learn that parents in our state have been provided >with such a legal exemption at their disposal.” > >If you had claimed it, then describe any extra demands that were made >upon you by school officials, beyond the first written letter you had >delivered to the school. If they denied your claim, then describe the >reasons they gave for denying it, and whether or not you were >subsequently able to reverse their decision. If you already had exemption >status and the school or health officials had attempted, or succeeded, in >rescinding your exemption, then describe what happened. > >Even if they gave you no problem, please send me a short paragraph >describing what you did and when you claimed it. > >WHY WE NEED THIS INFORMATION >Sharon Kimmelman (Vaccination Alternatives) and I want to see if we can >put a stop to the unlawful demands placed upon parents who claim this >exemption, and the subsequent denials to qualify for the exemption. > >Some of the demands made by School and Health officials have been >unlawful, extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise not stated in the >NYS law. This, together with other novel tricks, are intended to deny or >rescind vaccination exemptions. Parents that do not fully understand >their rights under the law, and are not prepared to correctly respond to >the evolving tactics from school officials, are falling victim to these >tactics. > >Most parents don’t know that: >1--They are not required to answer ANY questions about their religious >beliefs whatsoever. A simple written statement that vaccination is not >consistent with their personal religious beliefs is all that is required. >2--They do not have to be a member of any religion whose tenets oppose >vaccination. >3--They do not have to write their exemption claim on a paper with the >letterhead of any church, or signed by any clergy. >4--They do not have to periodically “update” their exemption status with >subsequent letters to the school. >5--The school has absolutely no right to determine whether the religious >views of the parents are sincere. >6--The school is not permitted to determine that your religious views are >“feigned or fraudulent”. A District Attorney must prove it to a judge. >7--The school cannot delay your child’s entry into school once you have >submitted your first letter notifying them that you wish to claim the >exemption. > >WHAT WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE >Your short statements will not be turned over to any school or health >officials. But in using them, we hope to demonstrate to one or more NY >State Legislators that many State residents wish to take advantage of the >exemption, and that many others have been unlawfully dealt with by the >School and Public Health Systems. We will also focus on specific cases >that are particularly flagrant. With the assistance of these lawmakers, >we hope to see an end to the abuses. > > >YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES >While your names will be kept confidential, it is important to prove to >the legislators that we contact that this problem is widespread and is >happening to real, verifiable people. SO PLEASE PUT YOUR NAMES AND >ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBERS AT THE END OF YOUR STATEMENT, after your one >paragraph (or more) statement. > >Email it to: >GK-CFIC@... > >FORWARD THIS REQUEST TO OTHER N.Y.S. PARENTS YOU MAY KNOW. > >Thanks, > > >Coalition For Informed Choice. > Krasner, Director >188-34 87th Drive, #4B, Hollis, NY 11423 >fax/phone: 718-479-2939, email: gk-cfic@... > >Sharon Kimmelman >Vaccination Alternatives >POB 346 >New York, NY 10023 >212-873-5051 ofc phone - fax >va-sk@... > > > > > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:04:42 -0400 <lisa@...> writes: >> , >> Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but people >> have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any >> info. >> about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If I am >> contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss >> things >> but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am not >> attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with >> honey >> then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask is >> for >> an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then >> probably >> 90% of them will come in their own time. Often, I have parents ask >> about one vaccine. I provide info. on all of them and in the end >> almost >> all of them contact me later and say they have suspended vaccines or >> decided to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinated. Just like I >> don't >> want someone to tell me I have to get vaccines, give my ss# or fill >> out >> the census complete form, etc...I don't want to tell someone else >> what >> they 'have' to do. I do encourage parents to stand up for what they >> believe. I explain that the fear that they feel will only expand for >> their grandchildren's children unless someone stands up and does >> something. That someone takes courage and I try to show that it is >> that >> person. That every person counts. Again, I'm only offering my >> opinion. >> In the beginning I was much more forceful but now I figure that >> everyone >> is entitled to their own opinion including how much they want to >> disclose, etc. I always remind parents that together we are a force >> to >> be dealt with...I mean really they can't jail everyone.... >> >> The story I often tell (and I know it is not perfectly correct but >> it >> goes something like this). I don't know who wrote (and I don't know >> I >> have it in perfect order...it is the point that is being >> conveyed)this >> but it conveys the point that can be tied to vaccines, voting, >> speaking >> up, anything that takes courage. Here is the story: >> >> During WWII the Nazis came for the Jews and I did nothing. Then the >> Nazis came for the Catholics and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came >> for >> Women and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for me and there was NO >> ONE >> to help me. >> >> You get the picture.. I have heard this quoted often but can't >> remember >> where or who wrote it or even if it is true. >> >> >> Hope this helps. Let's remember we are all on the same team at a >> very >> minimum....the minimum is that we believe that parents and >> individuals >> should have a choice to vaccinate and that there should be real >> informed >> consent. From there some are true anti-vaccine...some are on the >> fence...some are pro-choice publicly but anti-vaccine personally. >> The >> point is if we infight as a group we delay our message from reaching >> the >> public. >> >> >> >> >> >> Krasner wrote: >> > snip > > > > > > _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 I am from NYS also...Western NY below ROchester, so add me to the list.. I thought I did and intro but maybe didn't put in where I am from.. Re: New to the List > > > >> > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every > > " intro " I > > > >> > > > read > > > >> > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > >> > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > >> > > > >writes: > > > >> > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > >> > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I > > am just > > > >> > now > > > >> > > > > > able to > > > >> > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > >> > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 > > 1/2 and > > > >> > 1 > > > >> > > > 1/2. > > > >> > > > > > They were > > > >> > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older > > daughter, > > > >> > > > who, if > > > >> > > > > > left > > > >> > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, > > and > > > >> > raised as > > > >> > > > > > much as > > > >> > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that > > they > > > >> > have to > > > >> > > > > > make up a > > > >> > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that > > just comes > > > >> > > > > > naturally?) > > > >> > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son > > DID > > > >> > receive a > > > >> > > > > > tetanus > > > >> > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an > > accident. He > > > >> > was > > > >> > > > hit by > > > >> > > > > > a young > > > >> > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and > > graveled road. > > > >> > The > > > >> > > > > > doctors > > > >> > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they > > were > > > >> > > > getting > > > >> > > > > > ready to > > > >> > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on > > the > > > >> > tray > > > >> > > > and > > > >> > > > > > noticed > > > >> > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out > > to the > > > >> > > > nurse > > > >> > > > > > who jumped > > > >> > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a > > reaction > > > >> > to > > > >> > > > this > > > >> > > > > > shot > > > >> > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off > > to > > > >> > discuss > > > >> > > > it > > > >> > > > > > with the > > > >> > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing > > me and > > > >> > > > told me > > > >> > > > > > I was > > > >> > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate > > shot. > > > >> > Another > > > >> > > > > > nurse (bless > > > >> > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, > > grabbed the > > > >> > > > SINGLE > > > >> > > > > > SHOT > > > >> > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front > > of him. > > > >> > I > > > >> > > > didn't > > > >> > > > > > hear > > > >> > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of > > our > > > >> > visit. > > > >> > > > > > Illness is > > > >> > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little > > ones were > > > >> > > > (the > > > >> > > > > > youngest > > > >> > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at > > around > > > >> > age > > > >> > > > two). > > > >> > > > > > My son > > > >> > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my > > daughter, > > > >> > at > > > >> > > > 8 > > > >> > > > > > months and > > > >> > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > > >> > healthiest > > > >> > > > of > > > >> > > > > > them all. > > > >> > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection > > during > > > >> > his > > > >> > > > > > chicken pox > > > >> > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for > > sure if > > > >> > it > > > >> > > > > > really was, > > > >> > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his > > medication > > > >> > > > after > > > >> > > > > > one or > > > >> > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, > > " Well, > > > >> > I > > > >> > > > see > > > >> > > > > > that the > > > >> > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him > > that we > > > >> > used > > > >> > > > the > > > >> > > > > > garlic > > > >> > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only > > incidence of > > > >> > ear > > > >> > > > > > infections. I > > > >> > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the > > time of > > > >> > his > > > >> > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child > > getting > > > >> > his > > > >> > > > > > shots in > > > >> > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. > > What a > > > >> > > > blessing! > > > >> > > > > > After > > > >> > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for > > his > > > >> > shots, > > > >> > > > > > something > > > >> > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading > > every > > > >> > book > > > >> > > > on > > > >> > > > > > the > > > >> > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > > >> > lectures > > > >> > > > and > > > >> > > > > > hearing > > > >> > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even > > the pro > > > >> > > > doctors > > > >> > > > > > said > > > >> > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > > >> > everyone. > > > >> > > > That > > > >> > > > > > was > > > >> > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the > > young > > > >> > boy > > > >> > > > in > > > >> > > > > > our town > > > >> > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > > >> > wheelchair), > > > >> > > > the > > > >> > > > > > infant > > > >> > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his > > shots to > > > >> > go > > > >> > > > > > overseas and > > > >> > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the > > " outbreak " > > > >> > of > > > >> > > > > > whooping > > > >> > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were > > immunized > > > >> > became > > > >> > > > much, > > > >> > > > > > much > > > >> > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, > > it was > > > >> > a > > > >> > > > year > > > >> > > > > > compared > > > >> > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) > > than > > > >> > those > > > >> > > > who > > > >> > > > > > were > > > >> > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my > > mother > > > >> > now > > > >> > > > > > regularly > > > >> > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. > > Beeing > > > >> > > > seen by > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole > > different > > > >> > > > world > > > >> > > > > > of guilt > > > >> > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it > > has > > > >> > given > > > >> > > > me a > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are > > back > > > >> > in > > > >> > > > the > > > >> > > > > > civilian > > > >> > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, > > we > > > >> > give > > > >> > > > them > > > >> > > > > > the " I am > > > >> > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I > > have > > > >> > been > > > >> > > > > > threatened > > > >> > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, > > but > > > >> > they > > > >> > > > never > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the > > doctors > > > >> > would > > > >> > > > not > > > >> > > > > > see me > > > >> > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son > > DID > > > >> > attend > > > >> > > > K > > > >> > > > > > and first > > > >> > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me > > a > > > >> > million > > > >> > > > and > > > >> > > > > > one > > > >> > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just > > so > > > >> > curious, > > > >> > > > they > > > >> > > > > > had > > > >> > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > > >> > vaccinate. > > > >> > > > > > They > > > >> > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of > > the form, > > > >> > > > saying > > > >> > > > > > that it > > > >> > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I > > would have > > > >> > to > > > >> > > > show > > > >> > > > > > proof > > > >> > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason > > would have > > > >> > to > > > >> > > > > > continue. > > > >> > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I > > would then > > > >> > have > > > >> > > > to > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black > > sheep of > > > >> > the > > > >> > > > > > family for > > > >> > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my > > husband's > > > >> > cousin, > > > >> > > > a > > > >> > > > > > military > > > >> > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We > > were > > > >> > told, > > > >> > > > > > through > > > >> > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with > > them > > > >> > > > because > > > >> > > > > > of the > > > >> > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? > > Just > > > >> > the > > > >> > > > > > other day, I > > > >> > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest > > baby > > > >> > in > > > >> > > > our > > > >> > > > > > family, > > > >> > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think > > they > > > >> > think > > > >> > > > that > > > >> > > > > > that is > > > >> > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them > > to cry > > > >> > > > over a > > > >> > > > > > shot. > > > >> > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > > >> > right??? > > > >> > > > All > > > >> > > > > > those > > > >> > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that > > stuff up, > > > >> > > > right??? > > > >> > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is > > going > > > >> > off. > > > >> > > > I > > > >> > > > > > guess she > > > >> > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > >> > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful > > information > > > >> > you > > > >> > > > pass > > > >> > > > > > on. > > > >> > > > > > Katrina > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of > > Mothering > > > >> > > > magazine > > > >> > > > > > yesterday > > > >> > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal > > Jaundice. It > > > >> > > > mentions > > > >> > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > > >> > jaundice > > > >> > > > from > > > >> > > > > > the > > > >> > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > >> > > > incompatibilities > > > >> > > > > > to cord > > > >> > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer > > 1982. This > > > >> > is > > > >> > > > an > > > >> > > > > > older > > > >> > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and > > cannot > > > >> > get a > > > >> > > > > > copy, I > > > >> > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any > > where on > > > >> > the > > > >> > > > > > net. > > > >> > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from > > mypoints.com > > > >> > > > Install > > > >> > > > > > now: > > > >> > > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > >> > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > >> > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > > visit: > > > >> > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>_______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > >> > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > >> > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > > visit: > > > >> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >>________________________________________________________________ > > > >>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > >>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > >>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA > > > Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA > > > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm > > > ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL > > ADVICE. THE > > > DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. > > > Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours > > > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin > > > International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine > > Dangers > > > Education, Homeopathic Education > > > KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA > > > CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~ > > Having power over yourself is an inoculation > > against the power of others. > > - J. Ehrlich > > > > In this age, which believes that there is a shortcut to > > everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that > > the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest. > > - Henry > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 According to all the information I've found or Been given, yes, yes, yes and yes. For whatever stupid reason, the law requires homeschooling parents to turn in all the same paperwork (whether vaxing or getting an exemption) for all the required vaccines in a great many states, NC included. A huge crock, ehn? Be... Peace............................. :-> Re: New to the List I didn't know this.Are you saying that you have to submit completed forms stating your viewsopposing vaccination? Or are you saying that you have to submit formsindicating which vaccines your child had been given?In other words, homeschooled children are subject to the same vaccinationrequirements as public school children? Not what the school officials aretelling you. But is that the actual law??gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 Thanks . And best of luck with your project. Your work really does make a difference. I wish I could help but I don't even know anybody in NY. Really.(Doesn't everybody know SOMEBODY in NY?) I guess I need to get out there and do my part here in Colorado. Katrina - In CO, USA >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups >Vaccinationsegroups >Subject: Re: New to the List >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:20:51 -0400 > >Katrina > >Very sorry to pounce on you again. I didn't see who I was responding to. >My comments were not directed at you. But rather the attitude that allows >fear to overcome reason. I'm involved at the moment with trying to >collect one paragraph statements from NYS residents that shows support >for the exemption law. I want to fortify it, make it easier parents to >claim it, and resist attempts to repeal it. The statements would remain >confidential and read only be the legislators we trust. > >Would you believe that out of 200-400 parents that read the request, only >about 40 in the entire state emailed a statement to me? And 90% came from >small towns north of NYC. > >Obviously, I'm pretty pissed right now about this. But it is not about >you. > >gary > > > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:31:31 GMT " Katrina Cloud " <katrinaj@...> >writes: > > Whew! Didn't know that my post would stir up so much talk! The reason > > I > > didn't mention my location originally was just out of pure mistake. > > Got lost > > in my rant, I guess. I spent, well, since my son was born 8 1/2 > > years ago, > > as well as the time I was pregnant with him, tiptoeing around > > doctors and > > other " legal " people. I avoided taking my children to the doctors > > many times > > because of the confrontation I had to deal with. Even though I used > > to be > > able to quote figures and statements by all of the major health > > organiztions > > and seemed like I really knew what I was talking about, I could > > quickly be > > reduced to a whimpering nothing by a doctor, or even the nurses. > > Like I said > > before, I was threatened more than once by doctors with being turned > > in to > > the state if I did not comply. Also, like I said, they never > > followed up on > > me (when I walked out of the office for the last time when switching > > to my > > midwife, they never even called to see why I missed my next > > appointment.....never did hear from them again). Perhaps these > > people in > > these positions (working for health departments, schools, etc.) are > > trained > > to be intimidating and threatening because they know that many > > people are > > not aware of thier legal rights, will succomb to them and perhaps > > they can > > snag a few more of us with immunizations, before we find out that we > > really > > didn't have to. ??? > > At any rate, as I have gotten older and have learned more and more > > about the > > subject AND gotten involved in supportive groups, I feel much more > > armed > > when I go to the doctors. Still very uncomfortable, but so much > > better than > > in the past. It does help so much when you have others around you > > that > > support your beliefs (a very good reason for stating your > > laocation). I > > still get paranoid that someone is looking over my shoulder and will > > " find > > out " that we don't vaccinate and will start trouble, but I am also > > more > > aware of my rights to counter the blows. > > > > The internet gives us a certain amount of privacy, and the freedom > > to speak > > with a mask on, but it is still quite simple to trace someone, even > > by thier > > " handle " . It is good to be safe but I don't think that omiting your > > location > > is going to make that much of difference if someone was looking for > > you. > > Boy, did I talk in circles on that one!?! > > Anyway, I am glad to have found you all and love all the info I am > > gaining! > > Thank you all! > > Katrina > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:23:12 -0400 > > > > > >Or how about just walking around with a bag over your head?! > > > > > >There are parents who have started organizations and are out in the > > open > > >advocating for you. How can you allow them to stand alone when they > > are > > >helping you? Silent minorities lose their rights and get wiped out > > in > > >htis country. What the hell are you afraid of by speaking your mind > > and > > >signing your name to it? If you remain anonymous, then you won't be > > >counted. > > > > > >gary > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:43:44 -0700 Levy <1levy1@...> > > writes: > > > > Perhaps just stating country or even region (West coast, East > > coast, > > > > prairies, etc) would be helpful. > > > > > > > > Krasner wrote: > > > > > > > > > Katrina, > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my tone. It was sort of rhetorical. I was just > > wondering > > > > why every > > > > > " new member intro " always seems to exclude where the people > > > > actually > > > > > live. I think it's important most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:30 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > > writes: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > > > At the time, I live in Denver, CO. We just moved here. > > (Planning > > > > on > > > > > > staying). I guess my posts sound all over the place because > > we > > > > were! > > > > > > Having > > > > > > been military, I have covered a lot of ground. I have dealt > > with > > > > a > > > > > > number of > > > > > > people (doctors, school health officials, etc.) in a number > > of > > > > > > states and > > > > > > often the issues were never resolved because we left the > > area. I > > > > > > guess I am > > > > > > lucky that I never had to deal with any one doctor for too > > long > > > > (in > > > > > > military > > > > > > health care, you don't get a choice of doctor and the > > majority > > > > of > > > > > > them are > > > > > > very pushy, and sometimes rather threatening, about their > > > > beleifs > > > > > > over > > > > > > mine). > > > > > > Sorry for any confusion. I am still new here and learning > > the > > > > ropes > > > > > > of how > > > > > > to post. It seems like everyone here already knows each > > other > > > > pretty > > > > > > well. I > > > > > > guess it will just take me a while. > > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > By the way, it was in land that my son attended school. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...> > > > > > > >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups > > > > > > >Vaccinationsegroups > > > > > > >Subject: Re: New to the List > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:42:43 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >does the town you live in have a name? why does every > > " intro " I > > > > > > read > > > > > > >always exclude geography?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:46 GMT " Katrina Cloud " > > > > > > <katrinaj@...> > > > > > > >writes: > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > > I have been so busy reading all of your email that I am > > just > > > > now > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > take the time to write my " hello, this is me " letter. > > > > > > > > So here it is. I have three children, ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 > > and > > > > 1 > > > > > > 1/2. > > > > > > > > They were > > > > > > > > all born at home, vegetarians (except for my older > > daughter, > > > > > > who, if > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > alone, would eat an entire chicken), homeschooled, and > > > > raised as > > > > > > > > much as > > > > > > > > possible by attachment parenting.(Isn't it sad that they > > > > have to > > > > > > > > make up a > > > > > > > > special term for a special type of parenting that just > > comes > > > > > > > > naturally?) > > > > > > > > None of them are vaccinated. Excepting that my son DID > > > > receive a > > > > > > > > tetanus > > > > > > > > shot in an emergency room visit following an accident. > > He > > > > was > > > > > > hit by > > > > > > > > a young > > > > > > > > man on a bicycle and dragged down a paved and graveled > > road. > > > > The > > > > > > > > doctors > > > > > > > > thought it best that he receive the shot and as they > > were > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > ready to > > > > > > > > give it to him, I happened to glance at the bottle on > > the > > > > tray > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > noticed > > > > > > > > that it was the combination shot. I pointed this out to > > the > > > > > > nurse > > > > > > > > who jumped > > > > > > > > back with her needle and asked, " Why, has he had a > > reaction > > > > to > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > shot > > > > > > > > before? " I explained the situation and she went off to > > > > discuss > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > > doctor. He came and, in a nasty tone, began lecturing me > > and > > > > > > told me > > > > > > > > I was > > > > > > > > wrong, that it was NOT manufactured as a separate shot. > > > > Another > > > > > > > > nurse (bless > > > > > > > > her) came storming over, threw the fridge open, grabbed > > the > > > > > > SINGLE > > > > > > > > SHOT > > > > > > > > (that they don't make) and slammed it down in front of > > him. > > > > I > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > hear > > > > > > > > another word from him and he avoided me the rest of our > > > > visit. > > > > > > > > Illness is > > > > > > > > very uncommon in our house. All three of my little ones > > were > > > > > > (the > > > > > > > > youngest > > > > > > > > still is) breastfed, beeing self weaned (so far at > > around > > > > age > > > > > > two). > > > > > > > > My son > > > > > > > > had his first solid food on his first birthday, my > > daughter, > > > > at > > > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > months and > > > > > > > > my little one, at around 5 months, my son being the > > > > healthiest > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > them all. > > > > > > > > We were told that my son had a double ear infection > > during > > > > his > > > > > > > > chicken pox > > > > > > > > episode but it was never tested so I don't know for sure > > if > > > > it > > > > > > > > really was, > > > > > > > > or just inflamation from the sores. I stopped his > > medication > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > one or > > > > > > > > two doses and later got the comment from the doctor, > > " Well, > > > > I > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > antibiotics cleared this right up. " Never told him that > > we > > > > used > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > garlic > > > > > > > > oil Herbs For Kids remedy. That was our only incidence > > of > > > > ear > > > > > > > > infections. I > > > > > > > > made my no-vax decision when my son was born. At the > > time of > > > > his > > > > > > > > appointment, there was a problem with another child > > getting > > > > his > > > > > > > > shots in > > > > > > > > that office and they had to cancel my appointment. What > > a > > > > > > blessing! > > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > that, each time I reluctantly made appointments for his > > > > shots, > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > would happen that would cancel it. I started reading > > every > > > > book > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > subject I could get my hands on and started going to > > > > lectures > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > > panels of doctors speak on the pro's and con's. Even the > > pro > > > > > > doctors > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > that there was a risk and that it was not right for > > > > everyone. > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > enough for me. Then stories started coming at me, the > > young > > > > boy > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > our town > > > > > > > > who developed polio from the shot (permanently in a > > > > wheelchair), > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > infant > > > > > > > > son of the General on our base who got all of his shots > > to > > > > go > > > > > > > > overseas and > > > > > > > > died and few hours later from complications, the > > " outbreak " > > > > of > > > > > > > > whooping > > > > > > > > cough in the next county where those who were immunized > > > > became > > > > > > much, > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > sicker and took so much longer to recover (for some, it > > was > > > > a > > > > > > year > > > > > > > > compared > > > > > > > > to the month or two months for the unvaccinated ones) > > than > > > > those > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > not vaccinated. And it just went on and on. Even my > > mother > > > > now > > > > > > > > regularly > > > > > > > > sends me articles about the latest bad reactions. > > Beeing > > > > > > seen by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > military doctors, you get to be exposed to a whole > > different > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > of guilt > > > > > > > > tactics, propoganda and pressure. If nothing else, it > > has > > > > given > > > > > > me a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wonderful opportuniy to exercise my brain. Now we are > > back > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > civilian > > > > > > > > world and still dealing with the doctors. In general, we > > > > give > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > the " I am > > > > > > > > looking into that, will get back to you " statement. I > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > > threatened > > > > > > > > with being turned into the state if I did not comply, > > but > > > > they > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > followed up on it. I have also been told that the > > doctors > > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > see me > > > > > > > > until I had the kid's shot records up to date. My son > > DID > > > > attend > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > and first > > > > > > > > grade in a public school. The health office asked me a > > > > million > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > questions about my decision and said they were just so > > > > curious, > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > never personally had contact with someone who did not > > > > vaccinate. > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > advised me to sign the religious exemption part of the > > form, > > > > > > saying > > > > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > was just easier than the medical choice because I would > > have > > > > to > > > > > > show > > > > > > > > proof > > > > > > > > and they followed up on it AND the medical reason would > > have > > > > to > > > > > > > > continue. > > > > > > > > If, for some reson, the medical threat passed, I would > > then > > > > have > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > immunize him. I am considered the stupid black sheep > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > family for > > > > > > > > not getting my kids vaxed. My favourite is my husband's > > > > cousin, > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > military > > > > > > > > pediatrician, who he and his wife just had a baby. We > > were > > > > told, > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > family members, that we were not to have contact with > > them > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > threat our children posed to his daughter. ???!!!??? > > Just > > > > the > > > > > > > > other day, I > > > > > > > > got the story of how proud everyone was of the newest > > baby > > > > in > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > family, > > > > > > > > that she didn't even cry during her shots. I think they > > > > think > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > why I have made this decision, that I don't want them to > > cry > > > > > > over a > > > > > > > > shot. > > > > > > > > After all, that is the worst thing that could happen, > > > > right??? > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > crazies who don't vaccinate, they just make that stuff > > up, > > > > > > right??? > > > > > > > > Well, have I rambled enough? Plus, my little alarm is > > going > > > > off. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > guess she > > > > > > > > feels that my time on the computer is up. > > > > > > > > Thank you all for being and for the wonderful > > information > > > > you > > > > > > pass > > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I happened to grab an old issue of Mothering > > > > > > magazine > > > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > > > that happened to have an article on Neonatal Jaundice. > > It > > > > > > mentions > > > > > > > > everything I have been reading on this list regarding > > > > jaundice > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > different types and the treatments to Rh and ABO > > > > > > incompatibilities > > > > > > > > to cord > > > > > > > > clamping. It is found in issue number 24, summer 1982. > > This > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > older > > > > > > > > issue, out of print so if anyone is interested and > > cannot > > > > get a > > > > > > > > copy, I > > > > > > > > would be happy to pass it along. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any > > where on > > > > the > > > > > > > > net. > > > > > > > > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from > > mypoints.com > > > > > > Install > > > > > > > > now: > > > > > > > > 1/6346/10/_/489317/_/964464047/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > > visit: > > > > > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, > > visit: > > > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2000 Report Share Posted August 2, 2000 I'm not doubting what school and health bureaucrats may be telling parents. But I would love to see the law that says that parents must keep up to date vaccination records for their children. Or that they must submit a vaccination exemption statement (to whom?). I'll believe there's a law for those things when I see it. gary On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:26:46 EDT Trentonsmom@... writes: > In a message dated 8/2/00 5:40:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > gk-cfic@... > writes: > > << In other words, homeschooled children are subject to the same > vaccination > requirements as public school children? Not what the school > officials are > telling you. But is that the actual law?? >> > As far as I know you have to keep records of what vaccinations the > child has > received, or keep a record of exemption. Pretty much the same as if > the > child was in school. > Chelly > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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