New to the list

[Guest guest]

thanks, brigit. People on this list did respond. I'm not sure how many

didn't, because I don't know the fraction that live in NY. I was refering

to my separate email list on NYers. From that, there was a low response.

I was just using that as an example of parents exercizing too much

caution--to the extent that it becomes a detriment to serving their own

interests.

Be well

gary

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:27:14 EDT beebemcel@... writes:

> In a message dated 8/2/00 8:40:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> gk-cfic@...

> writes:

>

> << I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to

> continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a

> finger to

> fight for themselves?

>

> Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do

> in my

> place? >>

>

> gary,

> i responded and i DO appreciate all that you and sharon are doing

> on behalf

> of parents and kids in NYS!! please, don't give up--we need people

> like you!!

> thnak you,

> brigit

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again. About that study with the doctor you mentioned: My advice

is don't participate unless the doctor is anti-vax, or that you know that

he's really neutral on the subject.

About officials calling social services (CPS): That is the law. What may

be attacked are the reasons and criteria that they use -- both official

and unofficial. There's no law against breast feeding an infant past 18

mos. Yet that info gets into a file about you. If you tell a school nurse

that you like wholistic healing, that also gets into a file on you. It

builds up until they feel they can make a case to take your child. This

is what happened to one man in Queens. The day after he stood up at a PTA

meeting and informed parents that they can claim religious exemptions,

CPS and a cop came to his home an took his kid. Six months later, his kid

is still in forster care, while he goes to family court each week to

defend all the misc and irrelevent charges that the CPS had built up

against him. They even threw in his school vax exemption letter. The

school nurse is working with CPS against him. This parent is not selfish.

He's an activist. He took other parents with him and met with Assemblyman

Green in Brooklyn. Maybe they'll get something going.

Our cause is a subset of what they're focussing on. They will be hit with

the charge that if CPS cannot be proactive, then we'll have an epidemic

of child abuse again. We have a little easier task. We say enforce the

vax exemption clause as it is written. Stop questioning the parents about

their pers rel beliefs. That's unconstitutional. They can shout all they

wish that there'll be disease epidemics. But they can't escape from the

charge that they are not following the law. And they can't change the law

too easily, because it is based on the 1st Amendment.

We have a good chance to win this skirmish. But not with a low show of

support. A petition is not strong enough. That's why we decided upon

short statements from NY residents. BTW--people in other states are

having the same problem with school officials. I will offer to any

activists in other states the same legal and Constitutional presentation

we are building for NYS. In the meantime, start collecting statements

from parents in your own states.

gary

Coalition For Informed Choice. Krasner, Director

188-34 87th Drive, #4B, Hollis, NY 11423

fax/phone: 718-479-2939, email: gk-cfic@...

On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:42:51 EDT " Kim " <jazzymom1999@...>

writes:

> By the way ..

> I agree there aren't enough parents standing up for themselves.

> Even the

> ones that choose to vaccinate after educating themselves should

> stand up and

> be counted. You just have to support the educated choice not the

> decision

> to not vaccinate.

> But do you we really live in a free country. The first thing

> officials do a

> lot of the times is threaten to call social services. This doesn't

> seem

> like a free country to me when many parents vaccinate out of fear.

> Just for the record, I responded to your email - before I read this

> one. I

> have offered at one drs. office in NYC to take part in a study of

> unvaccinated children that his class is going to do. But in order

> to " come

> out " one has to be very confident in their decision and not worry

> about

> looking over the shoulder for the gov't.

>

> And lastly, thanks for all you have done for every parent out there

> and all

> future parents and most importantly the children!

>

> Kim

> Mom to Sami (11 mo)

>

>

> >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

> >Vaccinationsegroups

> >CC: franswrld@..., va-sk@...

> >Subject: Re: New to the List

> >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:05:47 -0400

> >

> >from gary:

> >

> >,

> >

> >I agree with you.

> >

> >I would only like to know what state people are from for the

> purposes of

> >giving them timely information about their state law, namely NY. As

> an

> >activist, I'm sure you would also like that information. Sometimes,

> a

> >parent will even post a question about exemptions for their child

> and not

> >tell us the state they live in.

> >

> >I have been an activist since 1980. I see too many parents taking,

> and

> >not giving. Once they get their exemption for their kids, they

> don't want

> >anything to do with our movement. They even criticize my collegue

> for

> >charging a small fee for counseling them on the exemption law and

> how to

> >obtain it. This is a college educated person who could have persued

> a

> >careeer. But instead, became an activist and specialized in the

> area of

> >the law. Some parents need her services, because they are incapable

> of

> >getting an exemption. Would you believe that most of them would not

> even

> >write or call her to give her feedback about their case?

> >

> >And few have responded to my request for a statement in support for

> our

> >exemption law. Being cautious is what we advise parents. But

> there's no

> >excuse for being short sighted and not realizing that organizing is

> >necessary to protect your rights.

> >

> >So I agree with you. But after a period of time, too many parents

> are

> >staying on the sidelines and allowing others to carry the load, and

> take

> >it on the chin. I get a letter twice a month from Alan Yurko, now

> serving

> >a life sentence for allegedly shaking his infant to death. I can't

> help

> >but wonder whether he (and others) would be there if more parents

> had

> >been more outspoken as a group sooner about medical mandates and

> how they

> >are applied by CPS agents. The parents that are trying to remain

> >undercover will eventually get on a CPS watchlist no matter how

> careful

> >they are. Are they breastfeeding too long? Did the refuse ritalin

> for

> >their kid? Did they refuse an antibiotic from the school nurse after

> >their child scrapped his knee in class? It's a long list.

> Vaccination is

> >only one part of it.

> >

> >I'm not a parent. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth my time to

> >continue to fight for the rights of people who will not lift a

> finger to

> >fight for themselves?

> >

> >Only a small fraction of NYers responded to this. What would you do

> in my

> >place?

> >

> >

> >IMPORTANT Confidential Information Request.

> >PLEASE RESPOND

> >

> >Attention:

> >Any NYS Residents Who

> >1--Hope Someday To Claim The Religious Exemption, OR

> >2--Had Claimed The Exemption, But The School Gave You A Problem, OR

> >3--Had Claimed The Exemption And Were NOT Given Any Problems.

> >4--Support The Law That Allows People, And Not Doctors, To Make

> Medical

> >Choices For Themselves.

> >

> >WHAT WE NEED:

> >We would like you to email to us at least a one paragraph statement

> >describing your experience with school officials when you had

> claimed the

> >personal religious exemption for your child. If you have not done

> so yet,

> >but hope to take advantage of the exemption someday, then just

> explain

> >why you’re glad that the law provides this exemption for personally

> held

> >religious beliefs. Maybe you could say something like, “it should

> be the

> >absolute right of any responsible and conscientious parent to decide

> >which chemicals are injected into their children, based upon their

> own

> >philosophical beliefs and scientific research. I therefore would

> explore

> >and consider all the legal exemptions to any medical mandates

> imposed

> >upon me. I am happy to learn that parents in our state have been

> provided

> >with such a legal exemption at their disposal.”

> >

> >If you had claimed it, then describe any extra demands that were

> made

> >upon you by school officials, beyond the first written letter you

> had

> >delivered to the school. If they denied your claim, then describe

> the

> >reasons they gave for denying it, and whether or not you were

> >subsequently able to reverse their decision. If you already had

> exemption

> >status and the school or health officials had attempted, or

> succeeded, in

> >rescinding your exemption, then describe what happened.

> >

> >Even if they gave you no problem, please send me a short paragraph

> >describing what you did and when you claimed it.

> >

> >WHY WE NEED THIS INFORMATION

> >Sharon Kimmelman (Vaccination Alternatives) and I want to see if we

> can

> >put a stop to the unlawful demands placed upon parents who claim

> this

> >exemption, and the subsequent denials to qualify for the exemption.

> >

> >Some of the demands made by School and Health officials have been

> >unlawful, extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise not stated in

> the

> >NYS law. This, together with other novel tricks, are intended to

> deny or

> >rescind vaccination exemptions. Parents that do not fully understand

> >their rights under the law, and are not prepared to correctly

> respond to

> >the evolving tactics from school officials, are falling victim to

> these

> >tactics.

> >

> >Most parents don’t know that:

> >1--They are not required to answer ANY questions about their

> religious

> >beliefs whatsoever. A simple written statement that vaccination is

> not

> >consistent with their personal religious beliefs is all that is

> required.

> >2--They do not have to be a member of any religion whose tenets

> oppose

> >vaccination.

> >3--They do not have to write their exemption claim on a paper with

> the

> >letterhead of any church, or signed by any clergy.

> >4--They do not have to periodically “update” their exemption status

> with

> >subsequent letters to the school.

> >5--The school has absolutely no right to determine whether the

> religious

> >views of the parents are sincere.

> >6--The school is not permitted to determine that your religious

> views are

> >“feigned or fraudulent”. A District Attorney must prove it to a

> judge.

> >7--The school cannot delay your child’s entry into school once you

> have

> >submitted your first letter notifying them that you wish to claim

> the

> >exemption.

> >

> >WHAT WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE

> >Your short statements will not be turned over to any school or

> health

> >officials. But in using them, we hope to demonstrate to one or more

> NY

> >State Legislators that many State residents wish to take advantage

> of the

> >exemption, and that many others have been unlawfully dealt with by

> the

> >School and Public Health Systems. We will also focus on specific

> cases

> >that are particularly flagrant. With the assistance of these

> lawmakers,

> >we hope to see an end to the abuses.

> >

> >

> >YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES

> >While your names will be kept confidential, it is important to

> prove to

> >the legislators that we contact that this problem is widespread and

> is

> >happening to real, verifiable people. SO PLEASE PUT YOUR NAMES AND

> >ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBERS AT THE END OF YOUR STATEMENT, after

> your one

> >paragraph (or more) statement.

> >

> >Email it to:

> >GK-CFIC@...

> >

> >FORWARD THIS REQUEST TO OTHER N.Y.S. PARENTS YOU MAY KNOW.

> >

> >Thanks,

> >

> >

> >Coalition For Informed Choice.

> > Krasner, Director

> >188-34 87th Drive, #4B, Hollis, NY 11423

> >fax/phone: 718-479-2939, email: gk-cfic@...

> >

> >Sharon Kimmelman

> >Vaccination Alternatives

> >POB 346

> >New York, NY 10023

> >212-873-5051 ofc phone - fax

> >va-sk@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:04:42 -0400 <lisa@...> writes:

> > > ,

> > > Hey...hey buddy. I totally agree with what you are saying but

> people

> > > have to be ready. In the beginning I was 'terrified' to give any

> > > info.

> > > about our family and even still guard an incredible amount. If

> I am

> > > contacted privately I will offer my telephone number to discuss

> > > things

> > > but I don't know everyone on the group. Again, I agree and am

> not

> > > attacking you but I think that we will attract more people with

> > > honey

> > > then vinegar. Let people come on their own time. All we can ask

> is

> > > for

> > > an open mind. If someone is on this list with an open mind then

> > > probably

> > > 90% of them will come in their own time. Often, I have parents

> ask

> > > about one vaccine. I provide info. on all of them and in the end

> > > almost

> > > all of them contact me later and say they have suspended

> vaccines or

> > > decided to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinated. Just like I

> > > don't

> > > want someone to tell me I have to get vaccines, give my ss# or

> fill

> > > out

> > > the census complete form, etc...I don't want to tell someone else

> > > what

> > > they 'have' to do. I do encourage parents to stand up for what

> they

> > > believe. I explain that the fear that they feel will only expand

> for

> > > their grandchildren's children unless someone stands up and does

> > > something. That someone takes courage and I try to show that it

> is

> > > that

> > > person. That every person counts. Again, I'm only offering my

> > > opinion.

> > > In the beginning I was much more forceful but now I figure that

> > > everyone

> > > is entitled to their own opinion including how much they want to

> > > disclose, etc. I always remind parents that together we are a

> force

> > > to

> > > be dealt with...I mean really they can't jail everyone....

> > >

> > > The story I often tell (and I know it is not perfectly correct

> but

> > > it

> > > goes something like this). I don't know who wrote (and I don't

> know

> > > I

> > > have it in perfect order...it is the point that is being

> > > conveyed)this

> > > but it conveys the point that can be tied to vaccines, voting,

> > > speaking

> > > up, anything that takes courage. Here is the story:

> > >

> > > During WWII the Nazis came for the Jews and I did nothing. Then

> the

> > > Nazis came for the Catholics and I did nothing. Then the Nazis

> came

> > > for

> > > Women and I did nothing. Then the Nazis came for me and there

> was NO

> > > ONE

> > > to help me.

> > >

> > > You get the picture.. I have heard this quoted often but can't

> > > remember

> > > where or who wrote it or even if it is true.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hope this helps. Let's remember we are all on the same team at a

> > > very

> > > minimum....the minimum is that we believe that parents and

> > > individuals

> > > should have a choice to vaccinate and that there should be real

> > > informed

> > > consent. From there some are true anti-vaccine...some are on the

> > > fence...some are pro-choice publicly but anti-vaccine personally.

> > > The

> > > point is if we infight as a group we delay our message from

> reaching

> > > the

> > > public.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Krasner wrote:

> > > > snip

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

gary,

you do a great service to this cause. don't burn yourself out - and

its easy to do, especially with those darn new yorkers. i know, i was

born and raised in the city, and transplanted myself to colorado

after it was too much *lol*! people really are scared of the gov't,

and especially there with the difficulty level it is in NY to not

vaccinate and get the kids into school. that, and so many people

frankly just don't want to listen or be bothered taking off their

rose colored glasses. not only do they not want to be bothered taking

off the glasses, they actually get mad at you for even suggesting

they take the glasses off! *lol* ah well.

and katrina, i can't wait till we get some time to write to

eachother. to be active you just have to talk to your friends, but

don't expect them to recieve you with open arms on this issue. the

ones i know in person and online don't seem to want to talk about it

too much, or they ask me about it and i'll give them a ton of links

and articles to look at and i never hear about it again (shoot, i

never heard from a few of those e-friends again!!!). anyway, my

doctor philip incao is very involved in the vaccine issue and the

rights of a parent to choose not to vaccinate. here are links on gary

null's page about him:

Dr.Philip Incao, MD: Background Info

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/niin/Philip_Incao.htm

Incao's Hepatitis B Vaccination Testimony in Ohio

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/niin/incao_hepatitis_b_vaccination_t

e.htm

*smile*

chris

> Thanks . And best of luck with your project. Your work really

does make

> a difference. I wish I could help but I don't even know anybody in

NY.

> Really.(Doesn't everybody know SOMEBODY in NY?) I guess I need to

get out

> there and do my part here in Colorado.

> Katrina - In CO, USA

>

> >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@j...>

> >Subject: Re: New to the List

> >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:20:51 -0400

> >

> >My comments were not directed at you the attitude that allows

> >fear to overcome reason. I'm involved at the moment with trying to

> >collect one paragraph statements from NYS residents that shows

support

> >for the exemption law. I want to fortify it, make it easier

parents to

> >claim it, and resist attempts to repeal it. The statements would

remain

> >confidential and read only be the legislators we trust.

> >

> >Would you believe that out of 200-400 parents that read the

request, only

> >about 40 in the entire state emailed a statement to me? And 90%

came from

> >small towns north of NYC.

> >

> >Obviously, I'm pretty pissed right now about this. But it is not

about

> >you.

> >

> >gary

[Guest guest]

I would like to see the section of the law that states that homeschoolers

must do that. Not a piece of paper from the school that says that.

--gary

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:37:45 -0400 " Peace HomoFreakian "

<peace_b_untiu@...> writes:

> According to all the information I've found or Been given, yes,

> yes, yes and yes. For whatever stupid reason, the law requires

> homeschooling parents to turn in all the same paperwork (whether

> vaxing or getting an exemption) for all the required vaccines in a

> great many states, NC included. A huge crock, ehn?

>

> Be...

> Peace............................. :->

>

> Re: New to the List

>

>

> I didn't know this.

>

> Are you saying that you have to submit completed forms stating

> your views

> opposing vaccination? Or are you saying that you have to submit

> forms

> indicating which vaccines your child had been given?

>

> In other words, homeschooled children are subject to the same

> vaccination

> requirements as public school children? Not what the school

> officials are

> telling you. But is that the actual law??

>

> gary

[Guest guest]

Chris

thanks for the advise. NYC is a hi pressure environment. Tonite, i had to

yell at teens to stop sitting on my car outside. In colorado, I guess i'd

just let a double barrel mossberg do my talking. Bamm!

Find me a shack with cable TV and I'll be out there next week!

gary

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:53:08 -0000 cl-chrisziggy@... writes:

> gary,

> you do a great service to this cause. don't burn yourself out - and

> its easy to do, especially with those darn new yorkers. i know, i

> was

> born and raised in the city, and transplanted myself to colorado

> after it was too much *lol*! people really are scared of the gov't,

> and especially there with the difficulty level it is in NY to not

> vaccinate and get the kids into school. that, and so many people

> frankly just don't want to listen or be bothered taking off their

> rose colored glasses. not only do they not want to be bothered

> taking

> off the glasses, they actually get mad at you for even suggesting

> they take the glasses off! *lol* ah well.

>

> and katrina, i can't wait till we get some time to write to

> eachother. to be active you just have to talk to your friends, but

> don't expect them to recieve you with open arms on this issue. the

> ones i know in person and online don't seem to want to talk about it

>

> too much, or they ask me about it and i'll give them a ton of links

> and articles to look at and i never hear about it again (shoot, i

> never heard from a few of those e-friends again!!!). anyway, my

> doctor philip incao is very involved in the vaccine issue and the

> rights of a parent to choose not to vaccinate. here are links on

> gary

> null's page about him:

>

> Dr.Philip Incao, MD: Background Info

> http://www.garynull.com/Documents/niin/Philip_Incao.htm

>

> Incao's Hepatitis B Vaccination Testimony in Ohio

> http://www.garynull.com/Documents/niin/incao_hepatitis_b_vaccination_t

> e.htm

>

> *smile*

>

> chris

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks . And best of luck with your project. Your work really

> does make

> > a difference. I wish I could help but I don't even know anybody in

>

> NY.

> > Really.(Doesn't everybody know SOMEBODY in NY?) I guess I need to

> get out

> > there and do my part here in Colorado.

> > Katrina - In CO, USA

> >

>

> > >From: Krasner <gk-cfic@j...>

> > >Subject: Re: New to the List

> > >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:20:51 -0400

> > >

> > >My comments were not directed at you the attitude that allows

> > >fear to overcome reason. I'm involved at the moment with trying

> to

> > >collect one paragraph statements from NYS residents that shows

> support

> > >for the exemption law. I want to fortify it, make it easier

> parents to

> > >claim it, and resist attempts to repeal it. The statements would

> remain

> > >confidential and read only be the legislators we trust.

> > >

> > >Would you believe that out of 200-400 parents that read the

> request, only

> > >about 40 in the entire state emailed a statement to me? And 90%

> came from

> > >small towns north of NYC.

> > >

> > >Obviously, I'm pretty pissed right now about this. But it is not

> about

> > >you.

> > >

> > >gary

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________

YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!

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Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

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[Guest guest]

hey gary,

here. I am also in NYS state and would love to be on your legislative

alert list. I was gone for a few weeks and am trying to catchup on all this

mail. Thanks

[Guest guest]

Where in NYState? I am from western NY below Rochester.

Re: New to the List

> hey gary,

> here. I am also in NYS state and would love to be on your

legislative

> alert list. I was gone for a few weeks and am trying to catchup on all

this

> mail. Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome Giselle!

I know there has been a lot in the past few weeks regarding tetanus. You

might want to check out the old posts.

Kim

Mom to Sami (11 mo)

>From: cepelik@...

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

>Vaccinationsegroups

>Subject: New to the list

>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:49:45 EDT

>

>Hello everybody:

>My husband and I have decided not to vaccinate our 5 1/2 month old baby

>girl

>after an extensive research on the adverse reactions and the positive that

>vaccines offers.

>We have read books written by Neil , talked to parents that have and

>have not vaccinated, looked into the statistics of the diseases, and

>learned

>about how the immune system works when it is not bombarded by vaccines.

>This has not been a light decision for us but we belived it has been the

>one

>we can have more of a peace of mind.

>I hope to be able to learn more about the issue through other parents that

>have made the same decision, and through it get more support.

>We are still in the research of a pediatrician, just in case she would get

>sick, we would like to have one to call.

>

>One concern is Tetanus, as it is a disease that can and does happen

>nowadays,

>and we all know how easy it is for a baby or a toddler to get cut. Any

>comments on this would be highly appreciated.

>Another concern is that we plan to travel to the Dominican Republic where

>sanitation is not as good as in the USA, and I get a little scare from time

>to time. Any comments on this will also be appreciated.

>Well, I am glad to have found the list and look forward to fruitful

>conversations, for the good of our dear children.

>Regards,

>Giselle Cepelik

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the list Barbara!! I've also just joined the list. I've been here

for two days now and it's so wonderful here. I would also like to let you know

that you are free to e-mail me privately any time.

Take care,

Kristy

_____________________________________________________________

Get a free h-Fan.com email address! ---> http://mail.mariah-fan.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Barbara!

Welcome to the list!! I'm so glad that you decided to start posting.

I'm sorry that I don't know a whole lot about neuro problems, but I know

there are others here that can help you. *hugs*

Please let us know how your tests went, won't you?

*hugs*

Barbara wrote:

> Hello everyone! I have been reading about everyone & learning about

> you all. I really enjoy how loving & caring everyone is in this

> group. I also have been sympathizing with you all & praying for

> better health. My name is Barbara & have a wonderful husband (12

> years), & have two terrific boys, 9 & 5 years old. I have been having

> a neurological problem for three years & I still have no diagnoses.

> Three years ago, I woke up numb from the waist down. I had a few

> MRI's & was told I have scar tissue on my spinal cord in my neck. It

> could possibly have been caused by a viral infection. Four weeks went

> by & the feeling started to come back, but then I started getting this

> vibration feeling everytime I moved my neck. I then went to my

> sister's neuro ( she has M.S.). He put me on medication to control the

> vibration & it worked. I don't like the side effects (fatigue) which

> affects me real bad. Then the migraines started from the spot on my

> neck. More medication was ordered & everything seemed to start to get

> better. Then in August of this year, I had another relapse. The same

> symptoms again & the medicine & fatigue increased. Had four

> MRI's-found another spot in mid back & also have spina bifida in the

> lumbar area. The next step is a lumbar puncture scheduled on Nov. 6th

> & I am really scared as I have had 2 epidurals with both children &

> they were really painful. If anyone has any info on lumbar puncture

> or anything helpful to calm the nerves, it would be much appreciated.

> I just want my doctor to find out what is going on. 1st he says it's

> MS then he says transverse myelitis, now he is not sure. I think I

> read about Aisha talking about ACE markers, Can someone please

> explain. One more thing, I just got this computer about 2 months ago &

> am just learning the ropes, so bear with me as I'm still not sure

> exactly what I am doing & I'm still having a few problems with this

> thing. Anyway, thanks for listening & I'll keep reading & stay in

> touch. Take care everyone! Barbara : ) (see...I'm learning he ha)

>

>

> The Being Sick Community

>

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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> “Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to

> what you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on

> to what you must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to

> your life, even if it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

[Guest guest]

BARBARA

Welcome to the group and I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are

having in gettinga diagnosis. I will pray that you get that resolved soon

I had a spinal tap a few years ago and had NO TROUBLE> no pain no headache

after nothing.(suspected ms) everything came back normal so try not to

stress and maybe wear some headphones with your favorite calm music and

mentally leave the room. thats what I did

Colleen

[Guest guest]

BARBARA

Welcome to the group and I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are

having in gettinga diagnosis. I will pray that you get that resolved soon

I had a spinal tap a few years ago and had NO TROUBLE> no pain no headache

after nothing.(suspected ms) everything came back normal so try not to

stress and maybe wear some headphones with your favorite calm music and

mentally leave the room. thats what I did

Colleen

[Guest guest]

Colleen, Thank you for the welcome & encouragement. I will definitely take

headphones as I do have the most perfect music with ocean sounds in the

background. That's where I'd like to be always, by the ocean!! Thank you

for the advise as I would have never thought about the headphones. I hope

all is well with you!!

Barbara : )

Re: New to the list

BARBARA

Welcome to the group and I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are

having in gettinga diagnosis. I will pray that you get that resolved soon

I had a spinal tap a few years ago and had NO TROUBLE> no pain no headache

after nothing.(suspected ms) everything came back normal so try not to

stress and maybe wear some headphones with your favorite calm music and

mentally leave the room. thats what I did

Colleen

The Being Sick Community

Visual problems with colors?

Click the link below and select the modify link to your right. Then select

the **Send Plain Text Email** option. This will stop you receiving emails

with colored or enlarged fonts.

Members Lounge:-

Photo Album, memorial page, members profiles, birthdays, locations, medical

resources, counselling via email, and a whole bunch of free things.

http://www.elderwyn.com/members

Message Archives and Digest Attachment Pictures:-

messages/

Chat:-

Scheduled Daily Chats at # on IRC DALnet.

chat.html

Sharing our resources:-

Add a website URL you have found useful.

Personal Complaints or problems:-

Please contact a moderator should you require assistance with anything

technical or if you are upset by another. The email address for the

moderators is <-owneregroups>

Subscription Details:-

1) Individual email - means that every email sent to the list you receive.

2) Daily Digest - sends you 25 messages in one single email for you to

browse. This is an excellent option if you receive alot of email.

3) Web only/No mail - means that you can pop into eGroups at your

convenience and receive no email.

To modify your subscription settings please visit

mygroups

To subscribe or unsubscribe

subscribe/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what

you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you

must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, even if

it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

..

ere. Hold on to your life, even i=

f it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

..

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Colleen, Thank you for the welcome & encouragement. I will definitely take

headphones as I do have the most perfect music with ocean sounds in the

background. That's where I'd like to be always, by the ocean!! Thank you

for the advise as I would have never thought about the headphones. I hope

all is well with you!!

Barbara : )

Re: New to the list

BARBARA

Welcome to the group and I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are

having in gettinga diagnosis. I will pray that you get that resolved soon

I had a spinal tap a few years ago and had NO TROUBLE> no pain no headache

after nothing.(suspected ms) everything came back normal so try not to

stress and maybe wear some headphones with your favorite calm music and

mentally leave the room. thats what I did

Colleen

The Being Sick Community

Visual problems with colors?

Click the link below and select the modify link to your right. Then select

the **Send Plain Text Email** option. This will stop you receiving emails

with colored or enlarged fonts.

Members Lounge:-

Photo Album, memorial page, members profiles, birthdays, locations, medical

resources, counselling via email, and a whole bunch of free things.

http://www.elderwyn.com/members

Message Archives and Digest Attachment Pictures:-

messages/

Chat:-

Scheduled Daily Chats at # on IRC DALnet.

chat.html

Sharing our resources:-

Add a website URL you have found useful.

Personal Complaints or problems:-

Please contact a moderator should you require assistance with anything

technical or if you are upset by another. The email address for the

moderators is <-owneregroups>

Subscription Details:-

1) Individual email - means that every email sent to the list you receive.

2) Daily Digest - sends you 25 messages in one single email for you to

browse. This is an excellent option if you receive alot of email.

3) Web only/No mail - means that you can pop into eGroups at your

convenience and receive no email.

To modify your subscription settings please visit

mygroups

To subscribe or unsubscribe

subscribe/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what

you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you

must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, even if

it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

..

ere. Hold on to your life, even i=

f it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

..

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/31/2000 6:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rjprather@... writes:

<< I subscribed to a list when was born however I had to

unsubscribe after a while because I found it too time consuming and too

volatile to participate in! >>

Welcome!! You won't find that kind of atmosphere here..maybe once a year on

inclusion issues (which is really interesting and stimulating if you ask

me!)...but rarely does one get personal. If they do, they usually don't stay

here.

used a pediatric walker right before he made his first steps. We

found he needed the confidence as well. We supported him from behind (I sat

with my knees pulled up and had him lean against them while someone stood a

few feet away cheering him on to move forward). I still have pictures of his

first steps...we had a blast with him during that time. His gross motor

skills are pretty good for a kid with DS. He also has apraxia and his speech

is poor. He continues to make progress each and every day though

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/31/00 5:26:05 PM Central Standard Time,

rjprather@... writes:

<< My name is Jodi >>

Welcome back Jodi

Barbara

Jimmy 13

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/27/2001 10:52:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jbillings@... writes:

> I hope this site is less combative than the others and I look forward to

> hearing about everyone children.

>

It is!! Occasionally there are debates, maybe once or twice a year people

take a personal twist with them...they either refocus or they leave,

sometimes not by their choice.

Welcome!! This is a family centered list, not soley focused on our family

member with DS. You will like it here..besides we are a fun bunch. Don't

take Tim, Granny or Kent seriously though! Ignore their bantering..they

really do it for fun

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the list. I think you will really enjoy this group. We are

family

friendly with lots of good information and heart warming stories. I have

twins

who are 3, one has DS and the other does not. Both are a handful but worth

every minute!! Nick is doing well in school especially in speech and other

cognitive areas. He is still not walking but very close now. We are hoping

he will be ambulatory by May when he makes his first visit to see Mickey

Mouse!

BTW, I also have a daughter who is 10...didn't want to forget the first born!

Bonnie from Long Island

Mom to -10, twins and (ds)-3

[Guest guest]

Jeff

welcome to the list ) i have 4 monsters LOL.. my more then step kids are

with us full time ) they are maygan and makallah 6 mikey is 3, and our

angel is jaykob tyler ds 8 months old..

hugs

stacee

[Guest guest]

Jeff:

Welcome to the list. Your sounds just like my Kaitlyn. She is 7

also. She has two brothers 10 and Grant 4. We seem to have daily

wrestling matches at our home with all three in a pile on the floor! I

am happy that Kaitlyn also likes to play with dolls and take her dancing

lessons as well.

Look forward to hearing more about your family.

Darcy

>

> I am new to this list. I have been on other lists but recently they have

> become really hateful and attack oriented. Anyway, Joe is our oldest

> child at 7 years old and has DS. She has two brothers, Jimmy and Boo. They

> are 5 and 18 months. is feisty, active, tomboyish, fast as lighting

> and weighs 40 lbs soaking wet. She learned to escape her play pen at about

> 23 months and we have yet to catch her.

>

> I hope this site is less combative than the others and I look forward to

> hearing about everyone children.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yeah we *try* to behave

kidding.

i'm sandy, mom to gabrielle antoinette (4, DS) and adam (17 months). gabby

sounds a lot like your emily! extremely fiesty and a tough little cookie.

welcome to our group!!

sandy

>From: " Jeff Billings " <jbillings@...>

>Reply-<jbillings@...>

>< >

>Subject: New to the list

>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:47:39 -0500

>

>I am new to this list. I have been on other lists but recently they have

>become really hateful and attack oriented. Anyway, Joe is our oldest

>child at 7 years old and has DS. She has two brothers, Jimmy and Boo. They

>are 5 and 18 months. is feisty, active, tomboyish, fast as lighting

>and weighs 40 lbs soaking wet. She learned to escape her play pen at about

>23 months and we have yet to catch her.

>

>I hope this site is less combative than the others and I look forward to

>hearing about everyone children.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

i think that's your name you didnt sign it. anyway, I've been in this group

for a short time myself and so far i love it. It gets a little busy, but the

people are sensitive and knowledgabe, friendly and even funny. There's

people from all over the world. It's amazing!

I have 2 kids, age 10 DS and age 6. amanda is in 4th grade

inclusion and doing very well in her life.

My husband can use a buddy to email with but doesnt want to join the group.

let me know if youre interested.

Welcome to the group.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/27/01 9:52:24 AM Central Standard Time,

jbillings@... writes:

<< I am new to this list. >>

welcome Jeff

Barbara (the quiet one)

Jimmy 13

[Guest guest]

Well, I don't know if you are Jeff or his partner but I think you will like

it here. We don't fight, that's part of our rules. Everyone has an opinion

and we all respect that. Welcome and I am sure you will like it here.

Dawn (Mom to 7ds)

New to the list

I am new to this list. I have been on other lists but recently they have

become really hateful and attack oriented. Anyway, Joe is our oldest

child at 7 years old and has DS. She has two brothers, Jimmy and Boo. They

are 5 and 18 months. is feisty, active, tomboyish, fast as lighting

and weighs 40 lbs soaking wet. She learned to escape her play pen at about

23 months and we have yet to catch her.

I hope this site is less combative than the others and I look forward to

hearing about everyone children.

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

You may want to check out the Co-Cure Good Doctor list at

www.co-cure.org/Good-Doc.htm Good luck! Mark and

> Hello,

> My name is a and I'm new to the list. I'm 24 years old

and have had

> CFS/FM for 5 years. I live in

> Michigan and am currently looking for a new doctor because my

present one

> isn't willing to do B12 or other treatments. If anybody lives in

this area

> and knows of a doctor who knows about this illness and is willing

to try new

> treatments. please let me know.

> Thanks in advance,

> a Bruno

> danielamorgan@a...

>

>

>