Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi folks! Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. Hugs! Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hmmm. I find your email very interesting. You mention HLH as a disease to be ruled out. It is interesting because your son was admitted under hematology/oncology. I am thinking they refer to it as HLH, thinking it might be secondary HLH or reactive HLH. Another name for secondary HLH is macrophage activation syndrome.(MAS) I imagine your course and tests might have been a tiny bit different if you were initially admitted by ped rheumatology. Your son had many of the markers for HLH. Many systemic children present with MAS at initial diagnosis of systemic jra. Hematology would have treated it with steroids and etoposide. A pediatric rheumatologist would treat it with steroids and cyclosporine. I would much prefer my child to be treated with cyclosporine than the strong chemo drug of etoposide. Sharon, you should be aware of MAS as a systemic parent. It is a very rare and life threatening complication of systemic jra. Many times there are triggers for it. Mono is a classic trigger. There is some thinking that all systemics eventually get MAS, either the clinical symptoms or the lab symptoms. Now that you are under the care of a ped rheumy they will always keep an eye on your son's labs and watch for it, as it seems he was traveling down that path when he was initially hospitalized. Take care, (n, systemic, 22, and a MAS survivor-barely) On Mar 22, 2011, at 8:18 AM, sharon.peabody wrote: > Hi folks! > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > Hugs! > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi . You are exactly right! In all of the craziness of so many appointments and doctors, I now vaguely remember the hem/onc doctor telling us about MAS and how she was looking for the macrophages " eating " the cells on the marrow slides (if I'm explaining that right). My husband remembers some of that vaguely as well, so it was definitely the hem/oncs that initially brought that up (he hasn't been at the ped rheum appts with me yet). And now that I think back on it, I do remember the ped rheum and our ped waiting for the results of the mono test to come back while was hospitalized. I had forgotten that detail. I am so sorry to hear that your daughter went through MAS - I can only imagine how difficult that was. If I can ask, was the MAS a complication from her JRA or did she present with MAS first? And since I'm still new to this whole thing, is the methotrexate considered a cyclosporine or is cyclo in addition to the mtx? I will be sure to talk in further detail with our ped rheum when we see him again to get better educated about the possibilities of MAS and what exactly they watch for in his labs. , I hope you don't mind if I bounce back in and ask more questions when I get them... Thanks! Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > Hi folks! > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > Hugs! > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi, Sharon- n got MAS as a complication of her systemic jra, but mono was the trigger. Other triggers are herpes, chicken pox, and coxsackie. n got mono so she had swollen lymph nodes and a sore throat. She also had a fever and the rash with a vengeance. I wouldn't have thought too much about it, but a mother in this group emailed me privately. She told me to call an ambulance if I had to, but get n to the hospital immediately. We did so, and she was diagnosed with MAS in two hours. If we hadn't brought her to the hospital, I believe she would have passed away that night in her sleep. Even in the hospital, n turned south and quit breathing. She was rushed to icu, we called for the Last Rights to be given , and she was put on a ventilator. It was touch and go for several days. She had systemic jra for 7 years when this occurred. Even writing about it can make me cry. Cyclosporine is not related to mtx. It is an anti rejection med given with organ transplants. MAS is little understood, and they don't know why or how steroids and cyclosporine can pull a person out of MAS. MAS may or may not happen again. Don't worry too much about it. Your rheumy will keep a close eye on your son's labs. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 22, 2011, at 10:50 AM, " sharon.peabody " <swaleans@...> wrote: > Hi . > > You are exactly right! In all of the craziness of so many appointments and doctors, I now vaguely remember the hem/onc doctor telling us about MAS and how she was looking for the macrophages " eating " the cells on the marrow slides (if I'm explaining that right). My husband remembers some of that vaguely as well, so it was definitely the hem/oncs that initially brought that up (he hasn't been at the ped rheum appts with me yet). And now that I think back on it, I do remember the ped rheum and our ped waiting for the results of the mono test to come back while was hospitalized. I had forgotten that detail. > > I am so sorry to hear that your daughter went through MAS - I can only imagine how difficult that was. If I can ask, was the MAS a complication from her JRA or did she present with MAS first? > > And since I'm still new to this whole thing, is the methotrexate considered a cyclosporine or is cyclo in addition to the mtx? > > I will be sure to talk in further detail with our ped rheum when we see him again to get better educated about the possibilities of MAS and what exactly they watch for in his labs. > > , I hope you don't mind if I bounce back in and ask more questions when I get them... > > Thanks! > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > Hi folks! > > > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > > > Hugs! > > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Sharon, Thank you for sharing the story of your son . I'm sorry he's having to deal with this disease so young. My daughter's disease presented in a similarly acute manner a year and a half ago. She was on prednisone in the hospital and then orally afterwards. She's also on Methotrexate, Mobic, and Kineret. Best of luck as you continue to monitor his progress over the next months. I pray he continues to improve on the Methotrexate and can discontinue the prednisone. I'm curious if any doctors mentioned Kineret as an option when he was hospitalized? It seems in some parts of the U.S. (not sure where you're located) Kineret is started right away. In our case we waited almost a year, after Methotrexate was not enough to discontinue the prednisone. Seeing how well Kineret has worked thus far, I would have started it earlier (kind of amazing to say that now since I was terrified of Kineret back then ...). Anyway, that said, our ped rheumy was not pushing Kineret and was hopeful the Methotrexate would be enough. But the tide seems to be changing and Kineret seems to be used more and more right in the hospital at onset. I know every case is different. I hope your son continues to get better and better Take care, nn (mom to , 9, systemic JIA) > > > Hi folks! > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > Hugs! > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Oh , you are so strong and courageous to share n's MAS story with those of us new here. I can't imagine the emotions that brings up for you. Thank you for sharing, and helping us. nn > > > > > > > Hi folks! > > > > > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline †" since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree †" typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone †" the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate †" he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) †" has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > > > > > Hugs! > > > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Oh my gracious, that's awful! How very scary to have that happen with n. I'm so glad that you were able to get her seen and taken care of. I will definitely keep that in my mental check list of things to watch for, just in case. Hugs to you and n and thank you for the information (even if it was hard to type {{hugs}} ). Sharon (, 16 months, systemic) > > > > > > > Hi folks! > > > > > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline †" since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree †" typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone †" the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate †" he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) †" has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > > > > > Hugs! > > > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi nn. I'm in MD, not all that far from JHU (about 25 minutes). So far our ped rheum hasn't mentioned Kineret just yet. I think he talked about Enbrell at our last appointment if it didn't look like the mtx was working, but we haven't done much looking ahead just yet. 's hospitalization was interesting since he was being handled more as a hem/onc patient rather than a JRA patient. It wasn't until he was discharged and we set up the weekly monitoring appointments with his pediatrician, the hem/onc clinic and his ped rheum that he began to be handled as more of a ped rheum patient. We also had two second opinion appointments at JHU (hematology and ped rheumatology) to get their thoughts and all sides were coming down on the JRA side. I will definitely ask him about Kineret, though and get his thoughts. But he is also taking the approach of hoping that the mtx will be enough here at first. I'm hoping that maybe at his next blood work appointment we'll have a better feel for how he's responding to this new treatment course. Thank you for sharing your daughter's treatment - I find I'm learning so much new each week that goes on. Hugs! Sharon (, 16 months, systemic) > > > > > Hi folks! > > > > > > Happy Tuesday to everyone. Sorry I wasn't here much over the weekend - took the kiddos to Grandma's for a visit. > > > > > > Last week W had asked some questions and I figured I'd share how we got to our diagnosis and treatment for for her and anyone else who is interested. Sorry for the length of the post, but I had kind of forgotten how much happened between October and now. > > > > > > , it's not a bother at all to ask about how we got here! I'm quickly finding out how valuable it is to hear what others have gone through on their journeys with JRA thus far. > > > > > > To answer your specific question - to a certain degree had presented not overly sick and it wasn't until the labs were run that the doctors really started to worry. > > > > > > Here's how we ended up where we are. Mid October, gets an ear infection. What's interesting is that with that ear infection (actually a day before was diagnosed with the EI) he broke out in an urticarial type rash. He did the same thing in August when he had another EI. 5 days of abx and he was clear. He was fever and rash free from around Oct. 23 until Oct. 31. On Halloween he started running a high fever (103ish) and the rash was back big time - it was the day of his 1st birthday party and he just was not quite himself. So on Nov. 1 I take him back to the ped. EI is back (or it was a new one) so another round of abx. He was fine again, fever and rash free, until Nov. 10 when he got sent home early from daycare with another fever of 103. From Nov. 10, he ran a fever daily along with a rash (the rash would get worse as the fever peaked). For the most part, unless he was medicated, he had a fever. Our peds did numerous exams, he had a chest x-ray to rule out pneumonia, and some basic bloodwork. > > > > > > The day before Thanksgiving, I call the on-call ped at our practice (not our usual one but he was also familiar with our case) to ask him, since we were getting in to the holiday weekend, when should we pull the trigger and go to the ER. He sent us that evening. Now, up until then, was a bit off, sleeping more and eating a little less, but when you're running a fever between 102.5-105.2 for days on end, we weren't surprised at all. The day we were sent to the ER, his fever was high again and the urticarial rash was so bad that he looked sunburned (all of the patches had merged together). When the ER doc saw him, she looked at his labs and felt that we needed to be transferred to another hospital where they had staff hematologists, oncologists, and rheums. She personally thought that based on his labs and presentation that it was rheum in nature but she was not a rheum by training and wanted more experts to see him. > > > > > > She tried to get us sent to JHU (we're in MD) but couldn't get a hold of their rheum. So we went to Sinai in Baltimore and were admitted under the care of the pediatric hematology/oncology clinic. looked unwell but it wasn't until they did the first blood draw at Sinai that the doctors got worried. I can look at his initial labs but they were really bad, apparently. The standard course of investigation that the ped hem/oncs do for his type of fever presentation and bloodwork is a CT scan, bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap. Because of it being the day before Thanksgiving, his doctors didn't want to do a bone marrow biopsy and spinal tap until they had all of the right people to do the screening (doctors there and at JHU look at the samples). So Thursday night was a CT scan (standard protocol for unexplained fevers). Friday morning our primary pediatrician heard we were hospitalized and he started " rallying the troops " around us so to speak. He did his residency at Sinai and still had practicing privileges there, so he knew who all to call. He talked with the hem/oncs and discussed the marrow/biopsy plans. He also called in a UMD pediatric rheumatologist who he works with to come and see us on Saturday morning (Sinai doesn't have a ped. rheum on staff). We would also get a visit from an infectious disease specialists on Monday/Tuesday. Saturday morning the ped. rheum came in to see us and did his examination (no blood work but he requested a few add ons to 's daily workups). Saturday night needed a RBC transfusion because his RBC dropped way low, and the rest of the time was hydration and fever management. Saturday evening our pediatrician came up to visit us and talk over the plans. > > > > > > There were 4 leading possibilities that all of the doctors had come up with: 1) Leukemia, 2) HLH (Leukemia's scarier cousin), 3) JRA, 4) ehrlichliosys (disease from a tick bite). The down side was that HLH, JRA and ehrlichliosys all had a tendency to show very similar bloodwork results in the early stages. The treatment for ehrlichliosys is a course of doxycycline – since it was a simple treatment, wouldn't interfere with the testing for the other possibilities, and low risk/high reward, we went ahead and did the abx treatment for the ehrlich. Unfortunately, the bloodwork didn't improve rapidly, so that diagnosis was ruled out. > > > > > > Monday they did the marrow draw and spinal tap, which, fortunately, ruled out leukemia. We were then left with JRA and HLH as the two possible candidates. Again, we were still stuck in the position of not knowing for certain which he had. When he entered the hospital he had 5 of the 7 clinical markers for HLH and by the time he was discharged he was down to 2. This confused the hem/oncs to a degree – typically when they see HLH (they haven't seen many cases but they have seen some) the patients don't get better they get worse. So it was either a " spectrum " variety of HLH that was caught early or it wasn't HLH at all. They even sent blood work to Cincinnati Children's Hospital where one of the leading HLH doctors works for some genetic testing and that came back ambiguous for HLH. > > > > > > So, given all of this information, the doctors all huddled together and decided that if it were HLH, there was little risk to to start treatment for JRA (the ped. rheum was 100% convinced this was early onset systemic JRA) and continue to monitor his progress. The hem/oncs agreed since part of the treatment for HLH is steroids and at worst it might just delay the definitive HLH diagnosis, if it were to prove to not be JRA. > > > > > > In December we started a 1 month course of naproxen to see if he'd respond to the simpler front line approach. His January bloodwork showed he had simply held steady and not really improved, so we moved on to oral prednisone. We had a slight hiccup about 2 weeks in to the treatment where he started vomiting all of it back up within 10 minutes of dosage. So we changed from Pedipred to Prelone – the Prelone was a higher concentration so he got less at a time (went from 2 tsp down to ½ tsp twice a day). That made a world of difference and he started keeping the meds down fine. > > > > > > Late February bloodwork showed that the steroids were doing their job. Our ped saw that bloodwork and said that almost all of the signs of inflammation were down to near normal levels. In light of that, he was officially discharged from the hematology/oncology clinic (as his doctor there said it's always good to be discharged from the oncology clinic! ). In early March the ped rheum started him on a once weekly oral dose of methotrexate, hoping that we can get him off of the prednisone sooner rather than later. So far he's had 3 doses of that and we'll go back at the end of March for another round of bloodwork. But he seems to be tolerating everything quite well. > > > > > > We have a few side effects of the steroids and methotrexate – he's eating almost everything in sight and getting a little chubby again and round in the face. That and sun sensitivity (which we learned the hard way this past weekend when he got sunburned… ). But otherwise no major side effects and he's growing and thriving well. He's even been cleared to be back at daycare (went back in early February) and he is doing so well there again. So while we're still working with this diagnosis and treatment, life is slowly starting to return to normal. > > > > > > So the moral of that novella I just wrote (sorry about that!!!) – has almost always presented as a fairly " well " child, with the exception of when he crashed and was in the hospital. And then he didn't even look as bad as his initial labs showed. He's never had swollen joints, has been a fairly happy, normal acting kid. It wasn't until you saw his bloodwork that you knew something was going on. All of his doctors said they were surprised. That's part of what really gave the hem/onc docs pause was how well he presented. > > > rarely has fevers anymore (the last one he had was when he had the flu about a month ago) and never has the rash. I really think that the steroids have taken care of that. > > > > > > I know very little about Kinerit but I am sure that others here will. > > > , I'm sorry to hear that you're little one was diagnosed with JRA, but it sounds like with some tweaking of her treatment she will be able to stay on the path to getting better. I wouldn't worry about not having had cancer ruled out and/or tested for. While I'm not an MD, my thought is that if your doctor felt that it was a possibility, something else would have shown in the blood work and he/she would have sent your daughter to be checked. What threw up the red flag with was how mad so many of his specific markers were. > > > > > > I hope that some of that information was useful, if anything for a touchstone for another little one's experience. > > > > > > Hugs! > > > Sharon (, 16 months old, systemic) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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