Moderation

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/2006 8:19:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, mnmimi@... writes:

There is no consequence to cheating lying and many times stealing. Just look at the last election, and as a society we have accepted that this is the way things are. That extends to our private lives. If people were made to suffer consequences of their actions, in that it effected them in a material way, they might be willing to be more respectful. I have to patiently explain adult desires do not equate to childrens needs. This of course is simply an example that people misplace their needs as desires and desires as needs

It is sadly true that there is little consequence for lying, cheating and stealing and so on. Politics is just one example. I really think that people are going to be even more upset with the new Congress than they were with the old if they put through the new, higher taxes and the other things they are promising to put through. The results of this talk are already being seen in the fall in the value of the dollar. Investors are worried that this Congress will push through higher taxes and other things that will hurt business, so they are looking at China, Eastern Europe and even the EU for better returns. The trade deficit isn't helping either. The signs are there that if the new Congress fulfills its promises that the dollar will tank and take the economy with it.

Most people these days can't separate needs from wants. A person needs food, clothing and shelter. Those needs can be filled in a very basic way: Simple food, simple but durable clothes and a functional house or apartment. Wants, on the other hand, are things like fancy food, designer clothes or great big houses. Furthermore, people consider most wants to be needs. These are things like the latest toys, the biggest cars, etc. People don't "need" a PS3 to survive. They won't die if they don't get one.

If people could get this straight, society would probably run a little more smoothly.

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

Don is on moderation. Not you. Everything you have said and done here

is okay.

Tom

Administrator

Well I am 37 but suddenly I feel like I am 6 again. I had reposted

someone elses post on the site. I guess I am not very good at it

because they must look like my words. I don't recall doing much

cursing in my posts. I have never been thought of as an avid foul

mothed person and I don't even say bad words out of print. I am not

sure, how this has been assigned to me I am a bit hurt. I posted last

that, attempting to strive for something(graduate school) is sometimes

more scary than failing. That was the gist of my post. I reposted the

post I answered because it was so angry and defiant, and I was as

afraid to attempt to make something real for myself, because I might be

attacked. I guess I was right mimi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/2006 8:19:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, mnmimi@... writes:

When Ravi plays games when he isn't supposed to he does it in the open he accepts that he has been caught, he loses the game play as a result and when he asks repeatedly for the game I ask him; "why can't ravi play right now?" He answers (man if I could bottle that with some other members of the family) He accepts that the rule is set and there is a consequence.

Forgot to mention something: Good for you! My parents did this sort of thing with me as well. I think it will pay off very well for him in the future.

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

There seem to be a lot of people who are having a hard time these

days, and we don't need Don swearing and stirring up trouble. That is

why HE is on moderation, NOT you.

This way we can all be supportive of one another without anyone

mocking us or making our lives more stressful.

I am sorry to hear that things are stressful for you. This place is

yours and you are free to come here and post whenever you want. You

have friends here (to the extend that online people can be friends).

Tom

Administrator

" I just realized I have been boxed in by my own personal situations

and I am feeling a bit hopeless and defenceless. I am sure all of us

feel that fighting although a way of life is depleting tiring and

frustrating. People that hurt never seen to grow a conscience, and in

my case they seem to to only have the energy to hurt(ah family ) I

lose my mind with having to be strong all the time because I see

others that seem to skate. I don't want to skate but at some point

isn't this supposed to be more synergistic? Just ruminating on all the

fun the holidays bring. I really am just so tired thanks mimi

[Guest guest]

I find that treating people the way you want to be treated works if

you don't expect anything in return.

I say this because I used to treat people with kindness and

consideration and got nothing for it and resented that fact.

Now if I do something for someone else, or treat them kindly, I do not

expect anything in return, and so I am seldom annoyed if I persoannly

mistreated by people I have treated well.

Tom

Administrator

What ever happened to treating people the way you want to be treated?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mimi,

As I read your post I was confused as to what has happened to you. Was it here?

I am

sorry that you are so upset and feel attacked. Could you be more clear as to

what has

happened?

Thank you.

Deborah

>

> Well I am 37 but suddenly I feel like I am 6 again. I had reposted

> someone elses post on the site. I guess I am not very good at it

> because they must look like my words. I don't recall doing much

> cursing in my posts. I have never been thought of as an avid foul

> mothed person and I don't even say bad words out of print. I am not

> sure, how this has been assigned to me I am a bit hurt. I posted last

> that, attempting to strive for something(graduate school) is sometimes

> more scary than failing. That was the gist of my post. I reposted the

> post I answered because it was so angry and defiant, and I was as

> afraid to attempt to make something real for myself, because I might be

> attacked. I guess I was right mimi

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

Thank you. This is sound advise. It is often our expectations that allow us to

be hurt

when people misuderstand and/or are nasty.

And treating people fairly is what helps us to maintain good self esteem - no

matter what

the other person has done or said.

I have appreciated all of your comments and posts on these boards - you put

thought and

effort into what you are writing.

Thank you.

Deborah

>

> What ever happened to treating people the way you want to be treated?

>

[Guest guest]

It was a misunderstanding.

Mimi thought I put her on moderation.

In reality, I put Don on moderation.

Mimi is in good standing here and always was.

Tom

Administrator

Well I am 37 but suddenly I feel like I am 6 again. I had reposted

someone elses post on the site. I guess I am not very good at it

because they must look like my words. I don't recall doing much

cursing in my posts. I have never been thought of as an avid foul

mothed person and I don't even say bad words out of print. I am not

sure, how this has been assigned to me I am a bit hurt. I posted

last that, attempting to strive for something(graduate school) is

sometimes more scary than failing. That was the gist of my post. I

reposted the post I answered because it was so angry and defiant,

and I was as afraid to attempt to make something real for myself,

because I might be attacked. I guess I was right mimi

>

[Guest guest]

Mmmmmmmm well my thoughts on such have changed slightly recently. I

will still try to be nice to people, but I have realised I have been

putting far too much effort in at the expense of myself - might sound

selfish, but I am exhausted and I need to be well not just for

myself, but my son too - so not overly selfish.

What I mean is, if I am nice and someone is nasty to me, maybe they

just having a bad day, or going through something I am not aware of,

so of course I will give them the benefit of doubt - however I have

to admit some people are just nasty and not nice and why should I

dedicate my time and effort to such? I can only do so much.

Mmmmmmm best quickly add at this point, I may not be able to

participate on the boards as much soon due to a family situation.

> >

> > What ever happened to treating people the way you want to be

treated?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I heartily agree, rights, vs. needs and consequences. I think

we have been talking about consequence and that the people we interact

are not willing to accept the responsibility of consequence. When Ravi

plays games when he isn't supposed to he does it in the open he accepts

that he has been caught, he loses the game play as a result and when he

asks repeatedly for the game I ask him; " why can't ravi play right

now? " He answers (man if I could bottle that with some other members

of the family) He accepts that the rule is set and there is a

consequence. There is no consequence to cheating lying and many times

stealing. Just look at the last election, and as a society we have

accepted that this is the way things are. That extends to our private

lives. If people were made to suffer consequences of their actions, in

that it effected them in a material way, they might be willing to be

more respectful. I have to patiently explain adult desires do not

equate to childrens needs. This of course is simply an example that

people misplace their needs as desires and desires as needs

[Guest guest]

I heartily agree, rights, vs. needs and consequences. I think

we have been talking about consequence and that the people we interact

are not willing to accept the responsibility of consequence. When Ravi

plays games when he isn't supposed to he does it in the open he accepts

that he has been caught, he loses the game play as a result and when he

asks repeatedly for the game I ask him; " why can't ravi play right

now? " He answers (man if I could bottle that with some other members

of the family) He accepts that the rule is set and there is a

consequence. There is no consequence to cheating lying and many times

stealing. Just look at the last election, and as a society we have

accepted that this is the way things are. That extends to our private

lives. If people were made to suffer consequences of their actions, in

that it effected them in a material way, they might be willing to be

more respectful. I have to patiently explain adult desires do not

equate to childrens needs. This of course is simply an example that

people misplace their needs as desires and desires as needs

[Guest guest]

"It is sadly true that there is little consequence for lying, cheating and stealing and so on. Politics is just one example. I really think that people are going to be even more upset with the new Congress than they were with the old if they put through the new, higher taxes and the other things they are promising to put through."

Hi ,

Here is what the Democrats are doing locally where I live...

I won't quote THIS entire articles here, but please note what Bobbi Steele says in the last paragraph, "The current board president, Bobbie Steele, has said she doesn't know what he did to deserve his salary." Then read the NEXT article...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/143882,CST-NWS-nichols21.article

Stroger backs off pledge to dump clout boss

The feds launched an investigation of clout boss Gerald Nichols . . . Todd Stroger said he would fire Nichols and clean up county government . . . But now Stroger is keeping Nichols on -- for now -- for his government expertise

November 21, 2006

BY STEVE PATTERSON Staff Reporter

Cook County Board President-elect Todd Stroger now says he will not fire the county's controversial patronage chief right away, but will keep Gerald Nichols on the payroll into January despite a federal investigation into allegations that Nichols fixed jobs.

During the campaign, Stroger said he would fire Nichols after taking office and some expected that to happen on his first day, as a show of commitment to reform. Nichols is suspended from his $114,000-a-year job in the wake of the federal probe. The current board president, Bobbie Steele, has said she doesn't know what he did to deserve his salary.

Tom here. Now read what Steele -the current board president -who has just said she doesn't know what he did to deserve his salary- has done...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0611290059nov29,1,2716825.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

Steele resigns to double pensionShe wants her son to get board seat

By Mickey CiokajloTribune staff reporterPublished November 29, 2006

Outgoing Cook County Board President Bobbie Steele on Tuesday resigned the county commissioner seat she was re-elected to earlier this month, a move that will let her double her annual pension.

Steele, 69, now hopes to hand off her commissioner seat to her son , a Chicago Park District administrator.

Bobbie Steele was picked in July to fill the unexpired term of former President Stroger, who retired after suffering a stroke a week before his March primary victory. At that time, Steele said she would not run for a full term as president but would return for a sixth term as commissioner if re-elected in November.

But by not returning as just a commissioner, Steele will collect a retirement benefit based on the president's $170,000 annual salary instead of the $85,000 salary of a commissioner. The move will boost her annual pension to $136,000 a year.

Commissioner Forrest Claypool (D-Chicago) said Steele deceived voters and exploited the county's pension loophole, which bases benefits on the final salary instead of an average of the last years of service.

"It's another example of politicians' rigging the pension system for their benefit," said Claypool, who lost to Stroger in the primary.

Steele, who has served on the board since 1986, declined to comment Tuesday. She is scheduled to address the media Wednesday.

Her resignation is effective Thursday, but incoming board President Todd Stroger, Stroger's son, is not slated to be sworn in until Monday, leaving the county without a chief executive for four days.

The Democratic ward committeemen of Steele's district, which covers portions of Chicago's West and South Sides, are expected to meet next week to select her replacement.

Chicago Ald. Chandler, who is also the Democratic committeemen of the 24th Ward, expects they will choose Steele's son.

"I let her know that I would support her son," said Chandler, who has the largest weighted vote among the 18 committeemen in the district. "I think will get the nod. He's a good man."

Steele said Tuesday that he would not discuss the situation in detail until he talks about it with his mother. He did say that he was "very interested" in replacing her on the County Board.

Steele had said she hoped to craft a 2007 budget before her four-month appointment as president expired, a key task that she failed to complete. She did produce a report from her transition team that made a variety of recommendations for the next board president to consider.

Commissioner Larry Suffredin (D-ton), an early Steele supporter for the presidency, said two of Steele's most significant accomplishments are yet to come. On Wednesday, during a special board meeting, commissioners are expected to vote on a restructuring of the county's scandal-plagued jobs training program and a strengthening of provisions that bar politics from playing a role in personnel decisions.

"She's worked 20 years. She's entitled to whatever the law gives her," Suffredin said. "I don't begrudge her receiving that."

Steele already receives a pension of about $13,000 a year as a retired schoolteacher.

Commissioner Mike Quigley (D-Chicago) said state lawmakers need to eliminate all pension loopholes.

"To a large extent, how do you blame President Steele for doing this?" Quigley said. "Clearly, people knew what they were doing when they left these loopholes in there."

Oops, forgot to mention Stroger's campaign spokesman, who is also a Democrat:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/152754,292nws4.article

Charge dropped against former Stroger spokesman

November 29, 2006

By Fitz Staff writer

A telephone harassment charge was dropped Tuesday against , a south suburban political spokesman accused of repeatedly calling his ex-girlfriend after she told him to stop.

The charge against , who resigned from Todd Stroger's campaign for Cook County Board president after his arrest, was dismissed after his former girlfriend told a Cook County judge she no longer wanted to pursue the case.

"She appeared in court and indicated she didn't want to proceed with the charges," Flossmoor Police Chief Lancaster said.

Lancaster said he does not know why the woman changed her mind.

Without a complaining witness, Cook County Circuit Judge Loretta Eadie-s dismissed the case.

, 39, of the 3500 block of State Street, Crete, has represented several Democratic officials throughout the Southland.

's ex-girlfriend, a guard at Cook County Jail, had accused him of repeatedly calling her on the phone after she asked him to leave her alone.

No threats were made during the alleged calls to the woman, who lives in Flossmoor, Lancaster said.

was arrested at 3 a.m. Oct. 13 during a traffic stop in Olympia Fields when police discovered he was wanted in Flossmoor.

declined Tuesday to discuss the ruling or comment about a possible future with Stroger now that his case is closed.

He released a brief statement: "I want to thank my family, Bishop Larry D. Trotter and various members of the Chicagoland clergy for never doubting my integrity. Also my Dolton political family for all of their support."

was living with the woman at her home in the 1600 block of Huntington Court for about nine months until December 2005, when she discovered was married and threw him out.

The woman alleges for several months repeatedly visited her house and called and left text messages up to 20 times a day, begging her to let him come back, sources said.

She since has moved, according to a friend.

Fitz may be reached at lfitzpatrick@...or (708) 633-5964.

Naturally there is an uproar. After all, Democratic voters are saying to themselves, we TRUSTED them, and THEY PROMISED!

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy I voted Republicnan.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks for sharing your knowledge of history again. I also believe it

was our Founding Dad Jefferson who warned against the " Tyranny of the

Majority " in representative systems. Just because you may be in the

majority, you shouldn't confuse that happy accident with moral

certitude. It's still just an opinion, too. The majority also

supported slavery and opposed womens suffrage once.

Combined with our previous conversation, you seem to believe in [the

" T " word] AND in the golden rule? I'm sorry if I'm confused here, but

those seem incompatible. Is it rude to bring it up?

Don

>

>

> In a message dated 11/29/2006 4:41:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> I find that treating people the way you want to be treated works if

> you don't expect anything in return.

>

> I say this because I used to treat people with kindness and

> consideration and got nothing for it and resented that fact.

>

> Now if I do something for someone else, or treat them kindly, I do not

> expect anything in return, and so I am seldom annoyed if I persoannly

> mistreated by people I have treated well.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

> I try not to take it personally either if someone is rude. However,

there

> are limits to how much one should be willing to take. I think this

was done

> here. Don was getting out of hand and so was called on it. He didn't

take the

> warnings and so is on moderation.

>

> I see this as a symptom of the times. People are all about the

" right " of

> free speech but like to ignore that that right includes the

responsibility to

> use it wisely. One of the Founding Fathers put it this way: " My

right to wave

> my fist ends at the tip of your nose. " I would actually extend this

a little

> farther to include waving your fist in someone's face. These days

though, many

> people seem to think that clipping someone's nose is perfectly

acceptable,

> but do it back to them and they pitch a fit.

>

> There is a lot of this on the web these days as well as in general

society.

> More's the pity.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks for sharing your knowledge of history again. I also believe it

was our Founding Dad Jefferson who warned against the " Tyranny of the

Majority " in representative systems. Just because you may be in the

majority, you shouldn't confuse that happy accident with moral

certitude. It's still just an opinion, too. The majority also

supported slavery and opposed womens suffrage once.

Combined with our previous conversation, you seem to believe in [the

" T " word] AND in the golden rule? I'm sorry if I'm confused here, but

those seem incompatible. Is it rude to bring it up?

Don

>

>

> In a message dated 11/29/2006 4:41:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> I find that treating people the way you want to be treated works if

> you don't expect anything in return.

>

> I say this because I used to treat people with kindness and

> consideration and got nothing for it and resented that fact.

>

> Now if I do something for someone else, or treat them kindly, I do not

> expect anything in return, and so I am seldom annoyed if I persoannly

> mistreated by people I have treated well.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

> I try not to take it personally either if someone is rude. However,

there

> are limits to how much one should be willing to take. I think this

was done

> here. Don was getting out of hand and so was called on it. He didn't

take the

> warnings and so is on moderation.

>

> I see this as a symptom of the times. People are all about the

" right " of

> free speech but like to ignore that that right includes the

responsibility to

> use it wisely. One of the Founding Fathers put it this way: " My

right to wave

> my fist ends at the tip of your nose. " I would actually extend this

a little

> farther to include waving your fist in someone's face. These days

though, many

> people seem to think that clipping someone's nose is perfectly

acceptable,

> but do it back to them and they pitch a fit.

>

> There is a lot of this on the web these days as well as in general

society.

> More's the pity.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" And perhaps because I grew up in an abusive home in inner-city

Chicago, I'm more comfortable with conflict than most people.

>

> Don "

I've come across people before who feel it is okay to be nasty,

because the world is nasty and therefore feel I should get used to

it. Reminds me of what you are saying about conflict - there is so

much conflict in the world and you are used to it - so therefore you

are going to add to it? Maybe I am wrong?

I dislike conflict, for conflicts sake - however there are times when

such cannot be avoided - it is useful to remember to choses one's

battles wisely. I have limited energy - there is only so much I can

do - that is not a cop out, but reality.

I do wonder about conflict online - is conflict online necessary?

Does it accomplish anything? With plenty of conflict off line that is

unavoidable, I wonder is it beneficial to add more online?

" Since I associate deceit with long-term suffering not worth the

short-term benefit of avoided conflict, I try to avoid deceit

altogether. "

Can you please provide an example of the above?, would help me

understand what you mean. Not sure how long term suffering arises out

of avoiding conflict, an example would be useful.

>

> I agree with the Golden Rule (it at least as old as Hammurabi), but

I

> don't think it's possible to remove expectations from human

endeavors.

> I think it's more likely to inform them by what's reasonable, what's

> fair, what's agreed, what's published, etc.

>

> That also shows me how different folks can see the same event so

> radically different, the so-called " Rashamon Effect " . For instance,

I

> like people to be direct with me, and honor me with their true

> opinions, and investment time in substantial conversations. That's

how

> I try to treat others, and how I hope others will treat me. But,

folks

> have different opinions, values, views, experiences, etc. Some see

> protecting temporary feelings at the expense of truth as a highest

> good. Since I associate deceit with long-term suffering not worth

the

> short-term benefit of avoided conflict, I try to avoid deceit

> altogether. And perhaps because I grew up in an abusive home in

> inner-city Chicago, I'm more comfortable with conflict than most

people.

>

> Don

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/1/2006 3:51:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I've come across people before who feel it is okay to be nasty, because the world is nasty and therefore feel I should get used to it. Reminds me of what you are saying about conflict - there is so much conflict in the world and you are used to it - so therefore you are going to add to it? Maybe I am wrong?

The world is only nasty because of nasty people. If people made an effort to be pleasant, then the world would indeed become less nasty of a place. The problem is that the crude people anger everyone around them. Those people having been made angry spread it to others and so on.

I'm sure we have all seen examples of this. If you are out in public, say at a restaurant, and there is one person complaining about everything, it makes the mood more tense for everyone. The other people will be pushed closer to snapping at other people. They will also carry this with them when they leave, spreading that nastiness with them.

When I was back in college not long ago, we had one person in the class who was usually unpleasant. He could be alright and then turn nasty in a heartbeat. Eventually he was kicked out for threatening one of the professors. Once he was gone, it was like a weight was lifted. We had more fun, learned more and even the rooms seemed brighter and more pleasant. We hadn't realized what a cloud we had lived under until he was gone. That is the effect nasty people have on the world.

[Guest guest]

I am confused; because I also believe in the golden rule and honesty,

and facing truth (being honest about a situation even if one doesn't

know the answer. But part of being honest is acknowledging that

people don't share the same values, and your rights end at the

begining of my nose.

So a violation of that say: me striking you;

may be borne, like Jesus says by turning the other cheek.

I guess like forgiving a mistermeanor, but what if You want to kill

me. I know that because for example you stated it

You have said it, I heard it. I know your rights, but I can't allow

you to do me bodily harm.

For whatever reason but let's say because that would negate my

promise to care for others.

That is the defination of war.

Dynamic force meets immovable object. Outcome is an explosion. I

either protect myself, or die. Even if I protect myself I might die.

It is the other party's determination on destruction and what that

limit is that to some degree determines the exchange.

We like you each of us with I am sure varing degrees (i am not trying

to make claims for anyone)

Don as a person as a thinker, in the idea that humans generally like

other humans we come together as a group.

But a person's determination to attack or accomplish a task directs

the action and focus of events.

That is how fights and disagreements happen. I believe in striving

for ideals, modes of thought, sometimes even hopeless endeavors(I

will likely never emit light) but those are some of the things that

make us human. Where and when and what for; that we take a stand

defines a character. We root for the underdog as well as the

continued success of the hero, we feel the plight of the loser and

understand the notion of tragic flaws. If one doesn't value what I

do that is their right-- I may not band with them, unless it is in a

common cause, and even then it depends.

There are some forms of

duality that don't work. Peaceful murderer. Happy Drunk. Warring

for peace. what is your life like? what do you do, what do you

like. books media, exploring your own brain, science, culture,

school, calligraphy??? What is your frame of reference. How would

you? or would you describe yourself? do you have limits? are you

limitless? What did you hope for while you were being abused?

Wings? a Poker, justice, acceptance, quiet?

mimi

[Guest guest]

Don,

What you don't seem to realize is that conflict is rarely necessary.

You can treat people nicely and still get your points across without

glossing over the truth.

It's good that you try to avoid deceit, but by being aggressive, all

you do is prove out the stereotype that inner city kids and are indeed

rough and tumble trouble makers who grow up to be people with

aggressive, argumentative personalities.

This is why politicians like to pigeonhole such people in housing

projects and block tenaments. After all, if people are not going to

try to improve their attitudes -even if they are incapable of

imprioving their circumstances- then why have anything to do with them?

There are people on this forum who have had it rougher than you Don,

and they grew up to rise above the backgrounds. Why don't you try to

do the same thing rather than stay in the same rut that you say you

started out in?

If you don't, you will be banned.

Tom

Administrator

Some see protecting temporary feelings at the expense of truth as a

highest good. Since I associate deceit with long-term suffering not

worth the short-term benefit of avoided conflict, I try to avoid deceit

altogether. And perhaps because I grew up in an abusive home in

inner-city Chicago, I'm more comfortable with conflict than most

people.

Don

[Guest guest]

>

> " Since I associate deceit with long-term suffering not worth the

> short-term benefit of avoided conflict, I try to avoid deceit

> altogether. "

>

> Can you please provide an example of the above?, would help me

> understand what you mean. Not sure how long term suffering arises out

> of avoiding conflict, an example would be useful.

>

>

If I may be bold this statement made sense to me. Don in a way we

think alike but kidding aside It is also some of why I am whom I

am. Perhaps the difference is my son's teaching me what is truly

important. anyway.

Sometimes people tell small lies hoping to not admit a responsibility,

that they don't agree with some. example: " , yes that dress makes

you look fat and it isn't just the dress alone " One might say that, or

one may choose to say : " tanya that dress doen't suit your figure "

Some choose to openly lie " that is the most beautiful dress I have ever

seen " short term effect is avoided conflict, and precieved insult of

another but, the long term suffering may be that wears that dress

to the exclusion of all others and then by lying one really has done

her harm.

People avoid conflict by hiding truth, hiding the truth, makes a bigger

mess, because of lost time. Time that could have been spent on fixing

a problem, or the development of a bad habit.

Maybe that is why Don rarely addresses me, I am the other side of his

coin. My feelings were born the same way it is my method of delivery

and my choice of problem solving tools. I am not always successful

with my approach but similarly I continue to explain my point until

there is understanding. Don may get a reaction faster, I actually

suffer misunderstanding for being too soft. People think my motives

must have ulterior aims(as how could I want nothing??)

Don's passionate and LOUD, he has no unterior motive than to challenge

people to think but I allow people to choose. Forcing may be

gratifying but in truth it is short term because a person has to apply

it to their own lexicon of experience. Synthetic vs organic. Same

effect different methodology, Apt analogy if I do say so myself.

Synthetics lead to a loss of ability, as the host organism ceases to do

the work on their own. Orgainic takes the responsibility of healing on

itself

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... Don's passionate and LOUD, he has no

unterior motive than to challenge people to think but I allow people

to choose. Forcing may be gratifying but in truth it is short term

because a person has to apply it to their own lexicon of experience.

Synthetic vs organic ... <snip> ... "

One can accomplish this without insulting, intimidating or denigrating

others, mimi, and this is something that Don needs to realize. There

are some who post on this forum, as Tom mentioned, who have grown up

under far worse circumstances than those that Don described who do not

resort to aggressive and negative methods in order to get their point

across.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Thanks mimi,

I understand it better now. Sometimes I am thrown by wording, but

examples help my understanding :-) Plus I also like clarification

rather than assumptions.

As for 'little' or white lies, which oft times comes under social

politness, is simply to me lies. Lies confuse - I really dislike

social politeness that involves these lies. I say they confuse

because for example the 'how are you?' Now I only ask this question

if I want to know the answer - to me it seems pointless to ask

someone unless I really want to know.

However in recent years I have learnt this 'how are you?' is

considered more of a greeting - which is silly, if a person does not

want to know how I am - why are they asking! Why not just

say 'morning' or 'hi' as a greeting? Also some people (rare)

genuinely do want to know how I am - but it can take quite a lot of

figuring and confusion sometimes knowing who is genuine and who is

being socially polite - I suppose time makes such apparent - however

(I am rambling :-) ) it would be much simplier in the first place for

people not to ask unless they really want to know.

Another form of the social politeness lies that confuses me is after

meeting someone them saying 'it's been great, we'll have to meet up

again' for years I thought such was genuine and then learnt through

one experience that such is not always so.

It was after I had attended a party with my ex boyfriend - I had

quite a nice time and I am usually not very good with parties, but

the people seemed like a nice bunch. Upon leaving my then boyfriend

said to the people hosting the party that he'd had a great time and

that we'd have to stay in touch. I was actually quite pleased

thinking it would be good to do so as these were nice people -

however when I said such to boyfriend he told me he hadn't meant what

he'd said - he was just being polite. Now that annoyed me - why do

such?; why not just thank them for the enjoyable evening, or

whatever - he didn't have to say he would stay in touch if he had no

intention of doing so. Now this ex was mostly honest, but I caught

him a few times telling these socially polite lies and such really

confused me - and if a person can lie over little things, is it

easier for them to then progress onto bigger lies?

" I am not always successful with my approach but similarly I continue

to explain my point until there is understanding. Don may get a

reaction faster, I actually suffer misunderstanding for being too

soft. People think my motives must have ulterior aims(as how could I

want nothing??) Don's passionate and LOUD, he has no unterior motive

than to challenge people to think but I allow people to choose. "

Sometimes I will continually try to get something across and end up

very frustrated with some people who just never seem to get it. I do

not expect people to agree with me - I am aware people have different

opinions etc - but sometimes I can't even get my own across.

I also get misunderstood a lot and people do suspect that I have

ulterior motives when I do not. I don't bother with ulterior motives -

don't see the point - if I want something I ask - I guess doing such

may seem rather blunt, but to me is preferable to pussy footing

about. I suppose trying to be totally honest, when it comes to being

interested in someone romantically asking straight out becomes a

little more difficult and I tend to obsess over how to do so for

quite some time - but get there in the end :-) I think personally

that has something to do with emotions and emotions confuse me a lot

and seem to mess up my congnition processes.

It confuses me greatly when someone asks me how I feel about

something (and things along those lines) and I tell them and then

they tell me that I can't feel like that - well I do! I don't get how

someone else can tell me how I can or can't feel? Also people accuse

me of feeling things I aren't even feeling! Can you see why I often

get confused with people? :-)

>

> >

> > " Since I associate deceit with long-term suffering not worth the

> > short-term benefit of avoided conflict, I try to avoid deceit

> > altogether. "

> >

> > Can you please provide an example of the above?, would help me

> > understand what you mean. Not sure how long term suffering arises

out

> > of avoiding conflict, an example would be useful.

> >

> >

> If I may be bold this statement made sense to me. Don in a way we

> think alike but kidding aside It is also some of why I am whom I

> am. Perhaps the difference is my son's teaching me what is truly

> important. anyway.

>

> Sometimes people tell small lies hoping to not admit a

responsibility,

> that they don't agree with some. example: " , yes that dress

makes

> you look fat and it isn't just the dress alone " One might say

that, or

> one may choose to say : " tanya that dress doen't suit your figure "

> Some choose to openly lie " that is the most beautiful dress I have

ever

> seen " short term effect is avoided conflict, and precieved insult

of

> another but, the long term suffering may be that wears that

dress

> to the exclusion of all others and then by lying one really has

done

> her harm.

> People avoid conflict by hiding truth, hiding the truth, makes a

bigger

> mess, because of lost time. Time that could have been spent on

fixing

> a problem, or the development of a bad habit.

>

> Maybe that is why Don rarely addresses me, I am the other side of

his

> coin. My feelings were born the same way it is my method of

delivery

> and my choice of problem solving tools. I am not always successful

> with my approach but similarly I continue to explain my point until

> there is understanding. Don may get a reaction faster, I actually

> suffer misunderstanding for being too soft. People think my

motives

> must have ulterior aims(as how could I want nothing??)

> Don's passionate and LOUD, he has no unterior motive than to

challenge

> people to think but I allow people to choose. Forcing may be

> gratifying but in truth it is short term because a person has to

apply

> it to their own lexicon of experience. Synthetic vs organic. Same

> effect different methodology, Apt analogy if I do say so myself.

> Synthetics lead to a loss of ability, as the host organism ceases

to do

> the work on their own. Orgainic takes the responsibility of

healing on

> itself

>

[Guest guest]

<It confuses me greatly when someone asks me how I feel about

something (and things along those lines) and I tell them and then

they tell me that I can't feel like that - well I do! I don't get how

someone else can tell me how I can or can't feel? Also people accuse

me of feeling things I aren't even feeling! Can you see why I often

get confused with people?>

That is because it will confuse them to believe you, and they are

used to people lying. The only feelings they can believe are either

their own, or what they have been taught.

I have severe problems in this area because even psychiatrists deny

my feelings, especially about who I can love.

Of all feelings, love is the one most prone to misunderstanding

because the word " love " has been corrupted and made ambiguous.

This results in several people who I love that will never know that I

love them.

Zylon

[Guest guest]

There is nothing wrong with that and it's perfectly fine. A psychiatrist isn't divine and he isn't you. Throw your t.v. in the trash. That's a start. It is full of brain-raping ideologies. Doesn't it make you angry that you will never speak with these people? You could atleast give it your best try and if it doesn't work out you'll be able to move on. It's easier to give up than to admit your feelings. Do you think it's pride that gets in the way? zylon1 <zylonn@...> wrote: <It confuses me greatly when someone asks me how I feel aboutsomething (and things along those lines) and I tell them and thenthey tell me that I can't feel like that - well I do! I don't get howsomeone else can tell me how I can or can't feel? Also people accuseme of feeling things I aren't even feeling! Can you see why I oftenget confused with people?> That is because it will confuse them to believe you, and they are used to people lying. The only feelings they can believe are either their own, or what they have been taught.I have severe problems in this area because even psychiatrists deny my feelings, especially about who I can love. Of all feelings, love is the one most prone to

misunderstanding because the word "love" has been corrupted and made ambiguous.This results in several people who I love that will never know that I love them.Zylon

Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Hello Nick.

No it is not pride. I need advice and/or direct help, such as

placement. But the advice or placements would not be appropriate

unless my situation was properly understood. But just the feeling of

being misunderstood is very lonely.

Zylon

>

> There is nothing wrong with that and it's perfectly fine. A

psychiatrist isn't divine and he isn't you. Throw your t.v. in the

trash. That's a start. It is full of brain-raping ideologies. Doesn't

it make you angry that you will never speak with these people? You

could atleast give it your best try and if it doesn't work out you'll

be able to move on. It's easier to give up than to admit your feelings.

Do you think it's pride that gets in the way?

[Guest guest]

It happens and it's going to keep happening. The feelings I have I can't explain either. My latest theory is that they happened as a result of recurring focal seizures as a toddler although that's not proveable. I've found that all humans who are worth anything have unresolved issues, feelings etc.. Do you mean job placement? It is possible to get a job through Salvation Army and other places provided that you don't have a record and so forth. There are all sorts of people and most of them aren't at all worth talking to or listening to. They are wastes of human life, taking up space, spreading darkness. People were made to feel a sense of patriotism about sep.11 because somehow the people in that office building meant something to someone living in Colo-friggin-rado. I hate to say it because there are alot of sappy people who might lurk here but, I didn't feel a darn thing for what happened to "America as a whole from sep.11". I understood that it was a direct cause and

effect relationship and the media bent it towards the muslims being savage and anti-women's rights. That's what they did with the Native Americans. It's a total lack of respect and brain-rape that's going on in the media and people just sit there and believe it because they don't want to face the inevitable reality that their lives are worth nothing and they will never be the ones to actually speak out because all their lives they never learned how to make a stand for themselves or for others. They are the silent zombies walking along, obeying all the rules and being afraid of everything. It looks like you have courage to not be a part of the colonies of people being told to go directly toward the slaughterhouse and willfully obeying because of lack of hope. Now what you need to do is realize that these psychiatrists only see you as an experiment and you are a farm animal to the major corporations and capitalists and advertisers. What you need is your feelings. Don't ever

let them go. zylon1 <zylonn@...> wrote: Hello Nick.No it is not pride. I need advice and/or direct help, such as placement. But the advice or placements would not be appropriateunless my situation was properly understood. But just the feeling of being misunderstood is very lonely.Zylon>> There is nothing wrong with that

and it's perfectly fine. A psychiatrist isn't divine and he isn't you. Throw your t.v. in the trash. That's a start. It is full of brain-raping ideologies. Doesn't it make you angry that you will never speak with these people? You could atleast give it your best try and if it doesn't work out you'll be able to move on. It's easier to give up than to admit your feelings. Do you think it's pride that gets in the way?

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.