trigger point injections

April 6, 2008

Does anyone know anything about trigger point

injections? I was sent to a pain center and they

wanted to do at least six of them. I chickened out

because I hate needles. How do they prepare you for

this? also do they hurt really bad. please let me

know.I have severe osteoporsis, osteoarthritis,lower

back pain,2 large annular bungling discs,2 herinated

disc in neck,degenerative disc

disease,depression,anxiety,insomnia,Gerd,cervicogenic

headaches and peptic ulcers. I also had the EMG/nerve

conduction study done on March 12 and they wont tell

me the results til I go back in April 15. Please help

me. Wanda Brown

--- Kara Mason <kjmacmason@...> wrote:

> I am not annie but suffer from same problem. I have

> not had any releif but its only been two days since

> the injection.

>

> martinalouise1977 <martinalouise1977@...>

> wrote: hi Annie,

>

> I also had several epidurals and facet joint nerve

> blocks, and none of

> these did much for me, so at least you got some

> relief from it! I

> have known of people who have had relief for quite

> some time from them

> though, so I think it just depends on the person and

> their specific

> pain/injury. My neuro surgeon did tell me though

> that sometimes it

> can take a few times (up to 3) for the injections to

> fully work, so it

> may be worth your while giving it another go as you

> may get more

> relief for a longer period trying again.

> Best of luck!

> a

>

> Kara mason - kjmacmason@...

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one

> month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com

April 6, 2008

Hi Wanda,

I have had TPI several times already...they usually clean the area and then just

stick the needle in various areas in your back or where they are injecting..I

will be hones that some of the injections will hurt if they hit a certain nerve

or such..the area usually bleeds for alittle bit and sometimes can turn black

and blue and tender..on the most part they are not to bad..but not sure because

everyone is different..I am allergic to caine so I can not have Novocain even

when I get the epidural injections so I guess I might tolerate the pain a little

more then some others.

I do have to say that the TPI does help me with spasms but other then that I

usually don't get much benefit from them or epidurals.

Hope they help you

Hugs

`*`*Kathy*`*`

Stressed is just desserts spelled backwards

A true friend walks in when the rest of the world walks out.

Stars are like friends you may not always see them..but they are always there

August 27, 2008

For those of you who have received trigger point injections please be cautious

when the docs start injecting upper body! If you have any shortness of

breathing or it is just hard to breath after your upper body injectibles it may

be due to your doc paralyzing the phrenic nerve(I trust that is the proper

spelling). The above nerve works with your breathing and could cause a lung

collapse or partial lung collapse. I have had several trigger point injections

in the past ten years.

Tomorrow is a new day as I will be getting an epidural for my lumbar-sacral

pain. If some of you would keep keep your fingers crossed for this to work.

Thanks all,

Rex in AZ

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Question to ask ? / & Pillow question

Hi Dave,

Thank you for everything you said here and I'm sorry to hear about

all of your problems! I have been avoiding the knife like the

plague. Last November I was offered a 3 level fusion on my cervical

spine for the second time. But not long after that I had my first

appointment with my doctor at the Jefferson Headache Center and he

started giving me trigger point injections of lidocaine all over my

head, neck and shoulders. He also increased my Lyrica from 50 to 100

mg 3x/day and Skelaxtin from 400 to 800 mg 3x/day.

I no longer carry my head to the side and I have increased range of

motion. His opinion is that, even though I have some pinched nerves,

my muscles were so ingrained to be in those positions from the pain

I was in that it would take a while to get them to relax and once

they did I would feel a lot better. It's been 9 months and I feel

signifcantly better than I did before I started treating with him

(at least in my neck).

I have bulging discs, bone spurs and one of the holes where the

nevers come out is almost closed from c4 down to c7. Without the

Lyrica I would have shoting pain going down both arms, but

especially my left. There is barely any feeling in either of my

hands (I really have to watch what I type, it's a good thing I know

where the keys are on the keyboard, but sometimes i put my hands

down in the wromg spots). If I want to feel how soft my dogs are I

need to pet them with my inner arms or the backs of my hands.

I know that the therapy I am receiving won't work for everyone but I

just wanted to share how I am avoiding the knife. I will only do the

surgery if there is no other choice.

Blessings,

Randy

>

> I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

surgeries

> are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

mean

> wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

they

> do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

much

> that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by surgery

or

> chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God, kiss

> the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

dodged

> that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

had

> my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

tests,

> they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done 4

> years later was at a big city teaching hospital, Jefferson

in

> Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game and

was

> doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I was

> under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when I

> woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years. I

was

> also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor who

> did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

fusions

> with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told him

> so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to explain

> everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

many

> famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My Back

> gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

knew I

> needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

insurance

> companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

could

> cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

and

> my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

name

> it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

was

> busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

would

> have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had to

> wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations I

> almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

tolerable

> agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

of

> P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

huge

> bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The one

> good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours a

> day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery was

to

> remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

remove

> 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

covers

> the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in (

it

> also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

So I

> now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

don't

> know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

hours

> because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they hadn't

> foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That was

> real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets just

> say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But had

a

> great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

that.

>

> My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

before

> the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt. I

> said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the surgery

my

> neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

lower

> back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed me

> where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There were

> also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the cause

of

> my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems and

> surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

the

> year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did I

> do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that was

> normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two years

I

> tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing services,

> second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone could

> offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason for

the pain.

>

> So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

opinions,

> look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions you

> can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all means

> make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that is

a

> great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

has

> been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13 years.

For

> me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up until

> age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

I'm at.

>

> As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

blade

> and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact I

> take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

while

> reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

not

> laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from my

> wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to the

> chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my long

> winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

nerve

> and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

they

> are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

are

> all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

of

> us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

want

> only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a life

of

> misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

>

August 27, 2008

For those of you who have received trigger point injections please be cautious

when the docs start injecting upper body! If you have any shortness of

breathing or it is just hard to breath after your upper body injectibles it may

be due to your doc paralyzing the phrenic nerve(I trust that is the proper

spelling). The above nerve works with your breathing and could cause a lung

collapse or partial lung collapse. I have had several trigger point injections

in the past ten years.

Tomorrow is a new day as I will be getting an epidural for my lumbar-sacral

pain. If some of you would keep keep your fingers crossed for this to work.

Thanks all,

Rex in AZ

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Question to ask ? / & Pillow question

Hi Dave,

Thank you for everything you said here and I'm sorry to hear about

all of your problems! I have been avoiding the knife like the

plague. Last November I was offered a 3 level fusion on my cervical

spine for the second time. But not long after that I had my first

appointment with my doctor at the Jefferson Headache Center and he

started giving me trigger point injections of lidocaine all over my

head, neck and shoulders. He also increased my Lyrica from 50 to 100

mg 3x/day and Skelaxtin from 400 to 800 mg 3x/day.

I no longer carry my head to the side and I have increased range of

motion. His opinion is that, even though I have some pinched nerves,

my muscles were so ingrained to be in those positions from the pain

I was in that it would take a while to get them to relax and once

they did I would feel a lot better. It's been 9 months and I feel

signifcantly better than I did before I started treating with him

(at least in my neck).

I have bulging discs, bone spurs and one of the holes where the

nevers come out is almost closed from c4 down to c7. Without the

Lyrica I would have shoting pain going down both arms, but

especially my left. There is barely any feeling in either of my

hands (I really have to watch what I type, it's a good thing I know

where the keys are on the keyboard, but sometimes i put my hands

down in the wromg spots). If I want to feel how soft my dogs are I

need to pet them with my inner arms or the backs of my hands.

I know that the therapy I am receiving won't work for everyone but I

just wanted to share how I am avoiding the knife. I will only do the

surgery if there is no other choice.

Blessings,

Randy

>

> I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

surgeries

> are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

mean

> wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

they

> do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

much

> that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by surgery

or

> chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God, kiss

> the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

dodged

> that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

had

> my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

tests,

> they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done 4

> years later was at a big city teaching hospital, Jefferson

in

> Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game and

was

> doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I was

> under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when I

> woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years. I

was

> also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor who

> did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

fusions

> with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told him

> so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to explain

> everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

many

> famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My Back

> gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

knew I

> needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

insurance

> companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

could

> cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

and

> my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

name

> it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

was

> busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

would

> have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had to

> wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations I

> almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

tolerable

> agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

of

> P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

huge

> bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The one

> good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours a

> day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery was

to

> remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

remove

> 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

covers

> the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in (

it

> also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

So I

> now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

don't

> know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

hours

> because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they hadn't

> foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That was

> real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets just

> say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But had

a

> great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

that.

>

> My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

before

> the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt. I

> said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the surgery

my

> neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

lower

> back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed me

> where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There were

> also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the cause

of

> my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems and

> surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

the

> year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did I

> do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that was

> normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two years

I

> tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing services,

> second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone could

> offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason for

the pain.

>

> So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

opinions,

> look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions you

> can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all means

> make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that is

a

> great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

has

> been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13 years.

For

> me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up until

> age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

I'm at.

>

> As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

blade

> and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact I

> take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

while

> reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

not

> laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from my

> wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to the

> chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my long

> winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

nerve

> and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

they

> are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

are

> all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

of

> us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

want

> only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a life

of

> misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

>

August 28, 2008

Please tell me about the experience..

Tom

In a message dated 8/27/2008 11:10:46 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

raburtongdyr@... writes:

For those of you who have received trigger point injections please be

cautious when the docs start injecting upper body! If you have any shortness of

breathing or it is just hard to breath after your upper body injectibles it may

be due to your doc paralyzing the phrenic nerve(I trust that is the proper

spelling). The above nerve works with your breathing and could cause a lung

collapse or partial lung collapse. I have had several trigger point injections

in the past ten years.

Tomorrow is a new day as I will be getting an epidural for my lumbar-sacral

pain. If some of you would keep keep your fingers crossed for this to work.

Thanks all,

Rex in AZ

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----

From: " Randy Tusone " <_randy6789@..._ (mailto:randy6789@...) >

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:29:03

<_PainInTheNeck-PainInTheNeck-<WPain_

(mailto:neck pain ) >

Subject: [PainInTheNeck-Subject: [PainInTheNeck-<WBR>B & Pillow question

Hi Dave,

Thank you for everything you said here and I'm sorry to hear about

all of your problems! I have been avoiding the knife like the

plague. Last November I was offered a 3 level fusion on my cervical

spine for the second time. But not long after that I had my first

appointment with my doctor at the Jefferson Headache Center and he

started giving me trigger point injections of lidocaine all over my

head, neck and shoulders. He also increased my Lyrica from 50 to 100

mg 3x/day and Skelaxtin from 400 to 800 mg 3x/day.

I no longer carry my head to the side and I have increased range of

motion. His opinion is that, even though I have some pinched nerves,

my muscles were so ingrained to be in those positions from the pain

I was in that it would take a while to get them to relax and once

they did I would feel a lot better. It's been 9 months and I feel

signifcantly better than I did before I started treating with him

(at least in my neck).

I have bulging discs, bone spurs and one of the holes where the

nevers come out is almost closed from c4 down to c7. Without the

Lyrica I would have shoting pain going down both arms, but

especially my left. There is barely any feeling in either of my

hands (I really have to watch what I type, it's a good thing I know

where the keys are on the keyboard, but sometimes i put my hands

down in the wromg spots). If I want to feel how soft my dogs are I

need to pet them with my inner arms or the backs of my hands.

I know that the therapy I am receiving won't work for everyone but I

just wanted to share how I am avoiding the knife. I will only do the

surgery if there is no other choice.

Blessings,

Randy

>

> I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

surgeries

> are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

mean

> wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

they

> do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

much

> that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by surgery

or

> chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God, kiss

> the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

dodged

> that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

had

> my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

tests,

> they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done 4

> years later was at a big city teaching hospital, Jefferson

in

> Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game and

was

> doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I was

> under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when I

> woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years. I

was

> also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor who

> did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

fusions

> with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told him

> so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to explain

> everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

many

> famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My Back

> gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

knew I

> needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

insurance

> companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

could

> cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

and

> my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

name

> it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

was

> busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

would

> have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had to

> wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations I

> almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

tolerable

> agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

of

> P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

huge

> bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The one

> good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours a

> day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery was

to

> remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

remove

> 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

covers

> the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in (

it

> also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

So I

> now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

don't

> know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

hours

> because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they hadn't

> foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That was

> real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets just

> say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But had

a

> great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

that.

>

> My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

before

> the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt. I

> said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the surgery

my

> neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

lower

> back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed me

> where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There were

> also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the cause

of

> my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems and

> surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

the

> year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did I

> do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that was

> normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two years

I

> tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing services,

> second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone could

> offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason for

the pain.

>

> So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

opinions,

> look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions you

> can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all means

> make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that is

a

> great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

has

> been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13 years.

For

> me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up until

> age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

I'm at.

>

> As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

blade

> and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact I

> take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

while

> reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

not

> laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from my

> wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to the

> chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my long

> winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

nerve

> and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

they

> are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

are

> all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

of

> us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

want

> only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a life

of

> misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 29, 2008

In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:46:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

randy6789@... writes:

Just to make it clear: the trigger point injections I mentioned that

I get at the TJ headache center are very shallow and wouldn't cause

this problem. I have, however, had deep trigger point injections

right along my spinal cord. Those are the dangerous ones. When I had

those done I was under a very light sedation and the doctor was

talking to me the entire time to ensure he wasn't hitting anything

he wasn't supposed to.

Blessings,

Randy

> >

> > I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

> surgeries

> > are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

> mean

> > wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

> they

> > do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

> much

> > that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by

surgery

> or

> > chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God,

kiss

> > the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

> dodged

> > that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

> had

> > my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

> tests,

> > they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> > failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done

4

> > years later was at a big city teaching hospital,

Jefferson

> in

> > Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game

and

> was

> > doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I

was

> > under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when

I

> > woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years.

I

> was

> > also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor

who

> > did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

> fusions

> > with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> > didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told

him

> > so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> > Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to

explain

> > everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

> many

> > famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> > Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My

Back

> > gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

> knew I

> > needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

> insurance

> > companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

> could

> > cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

> and

> > my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

> name

> > it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

> was

> > busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

> would

> > have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had

to

> > wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> > Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations

I

> > almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> > successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

> tolerable

> > agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

> of

> > P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

> huge

> > bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The

one

> > good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours

a

> > day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery

was

> to

> > remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

> remove

> > 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

> covers

> > the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in

(

> it

> > also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

> So I

> > now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

> don't

> > know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

> hours

> > because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they

hadn't

> > foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That

was

> > real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets

just

> > say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But

had

> a

> > great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

> that.

> >

> > My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

> before

> > the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt.

I

> > said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the

surgery

> my

> > neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

> lower

> > back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed

me

> > where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> > spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There

were

> > also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the

cause

> of

> > my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> > would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems

and

> > surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> > multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> > 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

> the

> > year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did

I

> > do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that

was

> > normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two

years

> I

> > tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing

services,

> > second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> > helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone

could

> > offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason

for

> the pain.

> >

> > So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

> opinions,

> > look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> > surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions

you

> > can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all

means

> > make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that

is

> a

> > great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

> has

> > been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13

years.

> For

> > me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up

until

> > age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> > replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

> I'm at.

> >

> > As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

> blade

> > and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> > sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact

I

> > take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

> while

> > reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

> not

> > laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from

my

> > wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to

the

> > chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> > bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> > local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my

long

> > winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

> nerve

> > and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

> they

> > are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

> are

> > all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

> of

> > us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> > good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

> want

> > only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a

life

> of

> > misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 29, 2008

In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:46:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

randy6789@... writes:

Just to make it clear: the trigger point injections I mentioned that

I get at the TJ headache center are very shallow and wouldn't cause

this problem. I have, however, had deep trigger point injections

right along my spinal cord. Those are the dangerous ones. When I had

those done I was under a very light sedation and the doctor was

talking to me the entire time to ensure he wasn't hitting anything

he wasn't supposed to.

Blessings,

Randy

> >

> > I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

> surgeries

> > are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

> mean

> > wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

> they

> > do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

> much

> > that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by

surgery

> or

> > chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God,

kiss

> > the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

> dodged

> > that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

> had

> > my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

> tests,

> > they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> > failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done

4

> > years later was at a big city teaching hospital,

Jefferson

> in

> > Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game

and

> was

> > doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I

was

> > under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when

I

> > woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years.

I

> was

> > also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor

who

> > did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

> fusions

> > with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> > didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told

him

> > so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> > Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to

explain

> > everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

> many

> > famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> > Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My

Back

> > gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

> knew I

> > needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

> insurance

> > companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

> could

> > cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

> and

> > my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

> name

> > it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

> was

> > busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

> would

> > have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had

to

> > wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> > Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations

I

> > almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> > successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

> tolerable

> > agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

> of

> > P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

> huge

> > bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The

one

> > good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours

a

> > day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery

was

> to

> > remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

> remove

> > 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

> covers

> > the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in

(

> it

> > also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

> So I

> > now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

> don't

> > know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

> hours

> > because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they

hadn't

> > foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That

was

> > real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets

just

> > say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But

had

> a

> > great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

> that.

> >

> > My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

> before

> > the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt.

I

> > said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the

surgery

> my

> > neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

> lower

> > back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed

me

> > where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> > spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There

were

> > also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the

cause

> of

> > my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> > would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems

and

> > surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> > multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> > 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

> the

> > year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did

I

> > do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that

was

> > normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two

years

> I

> > tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing

services,

> > second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> > helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone

could

> > offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason

for

> the pain.

> >

> > So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

> opinions,

> > look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> > surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions

you

> > can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all

means

> > make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that

is

> a

> > great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

> has

> > been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13

years.

> For

> > me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up

until

> > age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> > replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

> I'm at.

> >

> > As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

> blade

> > and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> > sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact

I

> > take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

> while

> > reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

> not

> > laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from

my

> > wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to

the

> > chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> > bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> > local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my

long

> > winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

> nerve

> > and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

> they

> > are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

> are

> > all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

> of

> > us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> > good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

> want

> > only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a

life

> of

> > misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 29, 2008

had in the neck were not bad.. I can not have them anymore because of a

spinal cord issue.

The ones I had in my lower back were excruciating... BUT that maybe due to

the doctor..I can't really say...

Tom

In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:46:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

randy6789@... writes:

Just to make it clear: the trigger point injections I mentioned that

I get at the TJ headache center are very shallow and wouldn't cause

this problem. I have, however, had deep trigger point injections

right along my spinal cord. Those are the dangerous ones. When I had

those done I was under a very light sedation and the doctor was

talking to me the entire time to ensure he wasn't hitting anything

he wasn't supposed to.

Blessings,

Randy

> >

> > I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

> surgeries

> > are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

> mean

> > wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

> they

> > do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

> much

> > that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by

surgery

> or

> > chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God,

kiss

> > the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

> dodged

> > that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

> had

> > my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

> tests,

> > they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> > failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done

4

> > years later was at a big city teaching hospital,

Jefferson

> in

> > Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game

and

> was

> > doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I

was

> > under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when

I

> > woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years.

I

> was

> > also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor

who

> > did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

> fusions

> > with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> > didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told

him

> > so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> > Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to

explain

> > everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

> many

> > famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> > Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My

Back

> > gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

> knew I

> > needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

> insurance

> > companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

> could

> > cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

> and

> > my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

> name

> > it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

> was

> > busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

> would

> > have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had

to

> > wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> > Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations

I

> > almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> > successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

> tolerable

> > agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

> of

> > P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

> huge

> > bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The

one

> > good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours

a

> > day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery

was

> to

> > remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

> remove

> > 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

> covers

> > the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in

(

> it

> > also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

> So I

> > now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

> don't

> > know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

> hours

> > because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they

hadn't

> > foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That

was

> > real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets

just

> > say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But

had

> a

> > great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

> that.

> >

> > My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

> before

> > the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt.

I

> > said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the

surgery

> my

> > neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

> lower

> > back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed

me

> > where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> > spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There

were

> > also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the

cause

> of

> > my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> > would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems

and

> > surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> > multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> > 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

> the

> > year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did

I

> > do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that

was

> > normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two

years

> I

> > tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing

services,

> > second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> > helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone

could

> > offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason

for

> the pain.

> >

> > So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

> opinions,

> > look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> > surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions

you

> > can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all

means

> > make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that

is

> a

> > great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

> has

> > been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13

years.

> For

> > me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up

until

> > age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> > replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

> I'm at.

> >

> > As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

> blade

> > and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> > sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact

I

> > take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

> while

> > reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

> not

> > laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from

my

> > wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to

the

> > chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> > bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> > local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my

long

> > winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

> nerve

> > and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

> they

> > are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

> are

> > all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

> of

> > us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> > good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

> want

> > only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a

life

> of

> > misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 29, 2008

had in the neck were not bad.. I can not have them anymore because of a

spinal cord issue.

The ones I had in my lower back were excruciating... BUT that maybe due to

the doctor..I can't really say...

Tom

In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:46:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

randy6789@... writes:

Just to make it clear: the trigger point injections I mentioned that

I get at the TJ headache center are very shallow and wouldn't cause

this problem. I have, however, had deep trigger point injections

right along my spinal cord. Those are the dangerous ones. When I had

those done I was under a very light sedation and the doctor was

talking to me the entire time to ensure he wasn't hitting anything

he wasn't supposed to.

Blessings,

Randy

> >

> > I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

> surgeries

> > are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

> mean

> > wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

> they

> > do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

> much

> > that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by

surgery

> or

> > chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God,

kiss

> > the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

> dodged

> > that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

> had

> > my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

> tests,

> > they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> > failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done

4

> > years later was at a big city teaching hospital,

Jefferson

> in

> > Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game

and

> was

> > doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I

was

> > under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when

I

> > woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years.

I

> was

> > also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor

who

> > did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

> fusions

> > with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> > didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told

him

> > so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> > Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to

explain

> > everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

> many

> > famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> > Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My

Back

> > gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

> knew I

> > needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

> insurance

> > companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

> could

> > cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

> and

> > my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

> name

> > it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

> was

> > busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

> would

> > have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had

to

> > wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> > Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations

I

> > almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> > successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

> tolerable

> > agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

> of

> > P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

> huge

> > bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The

one

> > good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours

a

> > day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery

was

> to

> > remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

> remove

> > 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

> covers

> > the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in

(

> it

> > also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

> So I

> > now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

> don't

> > know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

> hours

> > because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they

hadn't

> > foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That

was

> > real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets

just

> > say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But

had

> a

> > great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

> that.

> >

> > My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

> before

> > the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt.

I

> > said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the

surgery

> my

> > neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

> lower

> > back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed

me

> > where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> > spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There

were

> > also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the

cause

> of

> > my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> > would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems

and

> > surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> > multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> > 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

> the

> > year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did

I

> > do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that

was

> > normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two

years

> I

> > tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing

services,

> > second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> > helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone

could

> > offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason

for

> the pain.

> >

> > So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

> opinions,

> > look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> > surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions

you

> > can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all

means

> > make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that

is

> a

> > great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

> has

> > been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13

years.

> For

> > me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up

until

> > age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> > replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

> I'm at.

> >

> > As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

> blade

> > and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> > sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact

I

> > take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

> while

> > reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

> not

> > laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from

my

> > wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to

the

> > chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> > bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> > local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my

long

> > winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

> nerve

> > and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

> they

> > are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

> are

> > all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

> of

> > us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> > good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

> want

> > only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a

life

> of

> > misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 29, 2008

I just had to chime in here.. I had shots a year ago directly on my spine. I

don't know if they were " trigger points " but I know they were directly on my

spine, I was not sedated, I drove myself and they hurt so bad and I am so scared

to have it done again.... I had bruises all over me after I had it done. So, is

there a difference in what I had done compared to all of you? Doesn't sound like

it. As soon as I finally made it home on my own I cried all night and I was in

more pain then before I started!! After a couple days of heavy pain killers, I

felt really good. It only lasted a month and I was back at square one... :( I

believe I have to have more in the next few weeks.. Is it worth it?

From: Randy Tusone <randy6789 (DOT) com>

Subject: [PainInTheNeck- Back] Re: Trigger Point Injections

PainInTheNeck- Back@groups .com

Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 9:45 AM

Just to make it clear: the trigger point injections I mentioned that

I get at the TJ headache center are very shallow and wouldn't cause

this problem. I have, however, had deep trigger point injections

right along my spinal cord. Those are the dangerous ones. When I had

those done I was under a very light sedation and the doctor was

talking to me the entire time to ensure he wasn't hitting anything

he wasn't supposed to.

Blessings,

Randy

> >

> > I heard and or read more than once that about 90% of spinal

> surgeries

> > are unsuccessful. I don't believe that they are quacks or they

> mean

> > wrong I do believe that the spine is such a complex system that

> they

> > do their absolute best but there are so many variables, and so

> much

> > that can go wrong. I believe that those who are cured by

surgery

> or

> > chiropractic, or P/T are damn lucky few and should thank God,

kiss

> > the ground and generally be very happy and careful that they

> dodged

> > that bullet. The rest of us are here, or should be here. When I

> had

> > my first surgery in 1982-3 or so, there was no P/T no banks of

> tests,

> > they did x-rays and went right in surgically. It was an utter

> > failure, and that doctor was a butcher. My Second surgery done

4

> > years later was at a big city teaching hospital,

Jefferson

> in

> > Philadelphia. I had a surgeon who was at the top of his game

and

> was

> > doing fusion which then in 1987 were new and experimental. I

was

> > under for about 12 hours, he did a great job, I felt better when

I

> > woke up, was walking the next day, and had 13 very good years.

I

> was

> > also careful and thankful for a new lease on life. The Doctor

who

> > did the fusions was sued out of business because he was doing

> fusions

> > with hardware and in a way that were not approved by the FDA. I

> > didn't get in on the suit because he saved my life, and I told

him

> > so. He now raises horses in Delaware. His name is Sanford

> > Davne. He was a young bright Doctor who took his time to

explain

> > everything and really cared. He also did surgical rebuilds for

> many

> > famous Philadelphia Athletes, and the R & B singer Teddy

> > Pendergrass. I was damn luck he took me on as a patient. My

Back

> > gave out from me just bending over slightly in Jan 5, 2000. I

> knew I

> > needed surgery but by then the Doctors were required by the

> insurance

> > companies to try every non surgical method first. before they

> could

> > cut. This wasted 4 months and thousands of dollars, when both I

> and

> > my Doctor knew I needed surgery. The MRI's, CatScans, EMG's you

> name

> > it all pointed to disk and nerve damage. I had a business that

> was

> > busy in the summer and dead to slow in the winter / spring. It

> would

> > have really helped me to have surgery in Feb / March, but I had

to

> > wait until May 15th. Right before our Busy season hit in our

> > Portrait Photography business. Thanks to insurance regulations

I

> > almost lost my business that summer. The surgery was somewhat

> > successful. I went from total agony, couldn't walk etc, to

> tolerable

> > agony with meds, braces etc. Again insurance required all types

> of

> > P/T. I went to 3 different physical therapy practices, rang up

> huge

> > bills and in the end, hurt my back, and blew out my knee. The

one

> > good thing is I lost 50 lbs, because I was awake almost 24 hours

a

> > day and couldn't eat. Before I move on My 3rd back surgery

was

> to

> > remove my old hardware, clean out bone spurs and scar tissue,

> remove

> > 2 newly damaged disks, fix a tear in the Dura, the sheath that

> covers

> > the spinal cord, they didn't know I had that until they went in

(

> it

> > also caused spinal fluid to leak ) and fuse 2 additional levels.

> So I

> > now had all new hardware with 4 or 5 levels fused now, I really

> don't

> > know. I know it's S1, L1, L2, L3, & L4. It also took about 12

> hours

> > because the old hardware was very hard to get out, and they

hadn't

> > foreseen the Dura damage. They had me walk the same day. That

was

> > real fun. I stood up after being basically forced to and lets

just

> > say fluids came out both ends. I was totally embarrassed, But

had

> a

> > great caring nurse who said I wasn't the first or the last to do

> that.

> >

> > My Doctor had noticed damage to my neck area and kept asking

> before

> > the latest lower back surgery if my neck and or shoulder hurt.

I

> > said no they didn't. But once the pain subsided from the

surgery

> my

> > neck and shoulder started to kill me. Seems the pain from the

> lower

> > back over-rode the pain from the neck and shoulder. He showed

me

> > where on my Cervical spine there were bone spurs pressing on my

> > spinal cord to the point of almost cutting into them. There

were

> > also herniated disks on two levels. He told me this was the

cause

> of

> > my shoulder and neck pain and this surgery was a no brainer that

> > would relieve that pain. He told me he had the same problems

and

> > surgery cured him, and he has to look down over patients for

> > multi-hour operations. I had that surgery December 28th

> > 2000. Wanted to get it in while all my deductible was used for

> the

> > year. As Soon as I woke up, I said to myself what the hell did

I

> > do. I was in much more pain that pre surgery. They said that

was

> > normal and it would subside, but it never did. The next two

years

> I

> > tried everything, P/T, Injections, acupuncture, healing

services,

> > second opinions, 3 pain management specialists, nothing

> > helped. This surgery was a total failure. The best anyone

could

> > offer was exploratory surgery, because no test showed a reason

for

> the pain.

> >

> > So my reason for saying all of this is get second or third

> opinions,

> > look into the new very non-invasive disk repairs, try to avoid

> > surgery and or fusion if you can. If you get all the opinions

you

> > can and they all say surgery is your only hope, then by all

means

> > make an educated decision and do it. yours may be the one that

is

> a

> > great success. My Brother-in-law had surgery and fusion and his

> has

> > been a success. My second one was a great success fro 13

years.

> For

> > me I've been told that having had 4 surgeries from age 22 up

until

> > age 40 that this is as good as it get. Until they find a way to

> > replace disks and undue some of the damage I have, this is where

> I'm at.

> >

> > As far as the pillow. I require an ice pack on my shoulder

> blade

> > and or neck to reduce the pain enough to even think about

> > sleeping. Still I don't sleep anymore in bed, despite the fact

I

> > take enough pills to make an elephant sleep. But I can sleep

> while

> > reclined in my LaZboy chair. So for me I have much better luck,

> not

> > laying down, but reclining. I go to bed because I'm away from

my

> > wife all day long, but If it's sleep I want, then it's down to

the

> > chair. So you may want to try a recliner, or a Craftmatic type

> > bed. They are expensive but I see them used all the time in the

> > local pennysaver newspapers, or craigs list. Well that's my

long

> > winded diatribe for this evening. Sorry but this subject hit a

> nerve

> > and we have several new friends on our list who may benefit if

> they

> > are considering surgery. Also Remember these are my results, we

> are

> > all very much individuals with our own sets of problems and some

> of

> > us are blessed with the best Doctors around, others not so

> > good. Just remember this is your spine your talking about you

> want

> > only the best in there poking around or you could be in for a

life

> of

> > misery. Thanks for listening, Dave

> >

>

August 29, 2008