Re: new to group and need advice

[Guest guest]

Each medicine has what is called a " half-life. " This is the amount of time it

takes the medicine to build up to therapeutic levels in your body so you reach a

point called, " steady state. " Steady state occurs when your intake of the

medicine equals what you metabolize, so you keep a therapeutic dose on board all

the time. For Synthroid, I think the time for this is about three weeks. Some

of the other medicines, like Armour, are much faster, and take a few days.

Carol <racechasers@...> wrote:Hi, I'm new to this group. I was wondering

does anybody know

approximately how long it should take to get the thyroid working

normal after taking medicine? I have been under my primary doctor's

care for over two years now and she keeps increasing my synthroid

medicine and I haven't yet tested normal. Back in June, she actually

lowered my synthroid from 200 to 175 and when I tested in August, it

was back to being too low once again. To me, two years seems like a

long, long time. I'm ready to go to a specialist and my husband said

that I should have done this long ago. I gained an enormous amount

of weight for about two years and I couldn't figure out why. It

wasn't until I was on Synthroid 200 that I started to lose weight.

Thanks...appreciate your advice. Carol

[Guest guest]

Great info! I knew about half-life, but not about steady state.

Thanks.

Jan

Hi, I'm new to this group. I was

wondering does anybody know

> approximately how long it should take to get the thyroid working

> normal after taking medicine? I have been under my primary doctor's

> care for over two years now and she keeps increasing my synthroid

> medicine and I haven't yet tested normal. Back in June, she

actually

> lowered my synthroid from 200 to 175 and when I tested in August,

it

> was back to being too low once again. To me, two years seems like

a

> long, long time. I'm ready to go to a specialist and my husband

said

> that I should have done this long ago. I gained an enormous amount

> of weight for about two years and I couldn't figure out why. It

> wasn't until I was on Synthroid 200 that I started to lose weight.

> Thanks...appreciate your advice. Carol

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>Each medicine has what is called a " half-life. " This is the amount of time it

takes the medicine to build up to therapeutic levels in your body so you reach a

point called, " steady state. " Steady state occurs when your intake of the

medicine equals what you metabolize, so you keep a therapeutic dose on board all

the time. For Synthroid, I think the time for this is about three weeks. Some

of the other medicines, like Armour, are much faster, and take a few days.

>

The concept of metabolic half-life is most useful for simple drugs that

are removed by something like a single liver enzyme. However, it is

defined as the time it takes for half of the dosage to leave the system,

not buildup. Instead, half life is connected to buildup in a reverse

sense. Generally, the shorter the half life (faster it is removed) the

longer it takes to build up to a steady state level.

Even such simple dose behaviors can be confounded by other factors. For

example, the half life of caffeine in healthy non-smoking adults is

about six hours. In a heavy smoker this is reduced to about three hours,

which may explain the appetites of those who imbibe both. Vitamin C and

aspirin similarly share a liver enzyme that removes them, which means

that taking either one reduces the effective half life of the other. If

you have a cold, you might want to take these two out of phase, every

two hours, instead of taking them at the same time. This will maximize

both their effects.

The elimination rate may vary with time, particularly if some part of

the metabolic pathway is exhausted or if it reaches an " accommodation "

level. This means that some drugs do not even approach steady state

levels until the production rate of an enzyme is saturated. Then the

drug level rapidly approaches the asymptote.

In this case, hormone replacement with synthroid is anything but simple.

The therapeutic effect comes from T3, which is a metabolic product of

the T4. Thus, we really have at least two half lives to consider. The

half life of T4 controls the rate at which T3 increases, while the

processes behind the half life of T3 remove T3 or transform it to other

metabolites. If you describe this mathematically considering only the

two half lives, you start with two coupled first order differential

equations. The solution has several terms, each with a combination of

exponentials in the half lives. The result is that the time it should

take to approach a steady state dose of T3 depends on the T4 input rate,

but it could well be a matter of about three weeks.

The problem is that this is not all that is going on. The T3 removal

rate depends on activity. The more you do, the faster you use it up.

Some T4 and T3 may also still be produced by what is left of the thyroid

gland itself. Other parts of the system affect T4 to T3 conversion,

storage, and re-release. Finally, and perhaps most influentially,

thyroid production is governed by a complex feedback system involving

TSH from the pituitary. The result is that buildup does not proceed in a

smooth manner. Instead, it tends to overshoot with sudden changes in

dose rate, resulting in oscillations above and below the ultimate steady

state level. It is these oscillations, and especially the high

excursions, which the usual gradual increase in synthroid dosage is

designed to avoid. A large over shoot on the hyperthyroid side can be

life threatening.

Thus, Carol's system might amount to a " moving target, " for which over

correction can be deadly or at least very uncomfortable. I was fortunate

that I was quickly fine tuned with synthroid in a matter of months and

have been rock steady ever since. However, if other variables play a

part, two years might not be enough to reach stability. Carol, I would

expect that an endo working with synthroid would have followed much the

same protocol as your GP with similar results. Switching docs might not

help, if you stay with synthroid alone.

OTOH, if T3 or TSH levels continue to move around on you, the only

solution might be to use a different medication, one that incorporates

some T3 directly, and which would allow day to day adjustments. I

certainly haven't needed that so far myself, but I can see where it

might be a useful alternative. Your current doc might even consider

this, if asked.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck it was a pleasure to read this!!!!!!! you are a very brilliant

man!!!!

I am surprised you never needed to add t3 though--it seems most

people evenutally need it. Very interestng. So I am assuming here

that you are just low in your T4--and what about your own tsh

numbers, does that correlate lower too??? or is that a higher number

so your pituitary is working?? Is there any kind of rules in this

illness, does one thing always mean another or is it always

individualized.

I am trying to figure all of it out but it's extremely complicated

and no one seems to have any answers for all. You can hardly find it

in print either. UGGGGG

tina

>

> >Each medicine has what is called a " half-life. " This is the

amount of time it takes the medicine to build up to therapeutic

levels in your body so you reach a point called, " steady state. "

Steady state occurs when your intake of the medicine equals what you

metabolize, so you keep a therapeutic dose on board all the time.

For Synthroid, I think the time for this is about three weeks. Some

of the other medicines, like Armour, are much faster, and take a few

days.

> >

> The concept of metabolic half-life is most useful for simple drugs

that

> are removed by something like a single liver enzyme. However, it is

> defined as the time it takes for half of the dosage to leave the

system,

> not buildup. Instead, half life is connected to buildup in a

reverse

> sense. Generally, the shorter the half life (faster it is removed)

the

> longer it takes to build up to a steady state level.

>

> Even such simple dose behaviors can be confounded by other factors.

For

> example, the half life of caffeine in healthy non-smoking adults is

> about six hours. In a heavy smoker this is reduced to about three

hours,

> which may explain the appetites of those who imbibe both. Vitamin C

and

> aspirin similarly share a liver enzyme that removes them, which

means

> that taking either one reduces the effective half life of the

other. If

> you have a cold, you might want to take these two out of phase,

every

> two hours, instead of taking them at the same time. This will

maximize

> both their effects.

>

> The elimination rate may vary with time, particularly if some part

of

> the metabolic pathway is exhausted or if it reaches

an " accommodation "

> level. This means that some drugs do not even approach steady state

> levels until the production rate of an enzyme is saturated. Then

the

> drug level rapidly approaches the asymptote.

>

> In this case, hormone replacement with synthroid is anything but

simple.

> The therapeutic effect comes from T3, which is a metabolic product

of

> the T4. Thus, we really have at least two half lives to consider.

The

> half life of T4 controls the rate at which T3 increases, while the

> processes behind the half life of T3 remove T3 or transform it to

other

> metabolites. If you describe this mathematically considering only

the

> two half lives, you start with two coupled first order differential

> equations. The solution has several terms, each with a combination

of

> exponentials in the half lives. The result is that the time it

should

> take to approach a steady state dose of T3 depends on the T4 input

rate,

> but it could well be a matter of about three weeks.

>

> The problem is that this is not all that is going on. The T3

removal

> rate depends on activity. The more you do, the faster you use it

up.

> Some T4 and T3 may also still be produced by what is left of the

thyroid

> gland itself. Other parts of the system affect T4 to T3 conversion,

> storage, and re-release. Finally, and perhaps most influentially,

> thyroid production is governed by a complex feedback system

involving

> TSH from the pituitary. The result is that buildup does not proceed

in a

> smooth manner. Instead, it tends to overshoot with sudden changes

in

> dose rate, resulting in oscillations above and below the ultimate

steady

> state level. It is these oscillations, and especially the high

> excursions, which the usual gradual increase in synthroid dosage is

> designed to avoid. A large over shoot on the hyperthyroid side can

be

> life threatening.

>

> Thus, Carol's system might amount to a " moving target, " for which

over

> correction can be deadly or at least very uncomfortable. I was

fortunate

> that I was quickly fine tuned with synthroid in a matter of months

and

> have been rock steady ever since. However, if other variables play

a

> part, two years might not be enough to reach stability. Carol, I

would

> expect that an endo working with synthroid would have followed much

the

> same protocol as your GP with similar results. Switching docs might

not

> help, if you stay with synthroid alone.

>

> OTOH, if T3 or TSH levels continue to move around on you, the only

> solution might be to use a different medication, one that

incorporates

> some T3 directly, and which would allow day to day adjustments. I

> certainly haven't needed that so far myself, but I can see where it

> might be a useful alternative. Your current doc might even consider

> this, if asked.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the more involved explanation. Mine was just what I recalled from

psychopharmacology years ago.

Chuck Blatchley <cblatchl@...> wrote:,

You wrote:

>Each medicine has what is called a " half-life. " This is the amount of time it

takes the medicine to build up to therapeutic levels in your body so you reach a

point called, " steady state. " Steady state occurs when your intake of the

medicine equals what you metabolize, so you keep a therapeutic dose on board all

the time. For Synthroid, I think the time for this is about three weeks. Some

of the other medicines, like Armour, are much faster, and take a few days.

>

The concept of metabolic half-life is most useful for simple drugs that

are removed by something like a single liver enzyme. However, it is

defined as the time it takes for half of the dosage to leave the system,

not buildup. Instead, half life is connected to buildup in a reverse

sense. Generally, the shorter the half life (faster it is removed) the

longer it takes to build up to a steady state level.

Even such simple dose behaviors can be confounded by other factors. For

example, the half life of caffeine in healthy non-smoking adults is

about six hours. In a heavy smoker this is reduced to about three hours,

which may explain the appetites of those who imbibe both. Vitamin C and

aspirin similarly share a liver enzyme that removes them, which means

that taking either one reduces the effective half life of the other. If

you have a cold, you might want to take these two out of phase, every

two hours, instead of taking them at the same time. This will maximize

both their effects.

The elimination rate may vary with time, particularly if some part of

the metabolic pathway is exhausted or if it reaches an " accommodation "

level. This means that some drugs do not even approach steady state

levels until the production rate of an enzyme is saturated. Then the

drug level rapidly approaches the asymptote.

In this case, hormone replacement with synthroid is anything but simple.

The therapeutic effect comes from T3, which is a metabolic product of

the T4. Thus, we really have at least two half lives to consider. The

half life of T4 controls the rate at which T3 increases, while the

processes behind the half life of T3 remove T3 or transform it to other

metabolites. If you describe this mathematically considering only the

two half lives, you start with two coupled first order differential

equations. The solution has several terms, each with a combination of

exponentials in the half lives. The result is that the time it should

take to approach a steady state dose of T3 depends on the T4 input rate,

but it could well be a matter of about three weeks.

The problem is that this is not all that is going on. The T3 removal

rate depends on activity. The more you do, the faster you use it up.

Some T4 and T3 may also still be produced by what is left of the thyroid

gland itself. Other parts of the system affect T4 to T3 conversion,

storage, and re-release. Finally, and perhaps most influentially,

thyroid production is governed by a complex feedback system involving

TSH from the pituitary. The result is that buildup does not proceed in a

smooth manner. Instead, it tends to overshoot with sudden changes in

dose rate, resulting in oscillations above and below the ultimate steady

state level. It is these oscillations, and especially the high

excursions, which the usual gradual increase in synthroid dosage is

designed to avoid. A large over shoot on the hyperthyroid side can be

life threatening.

Thus, Carol's system might amount to a " moving target, " for which over

correction can be deadly or at least very uncomfortable. I was fortunate

that I was quickly fine tuned with synthroid in a matter of months and

have been rock steady ever since. However, if other variables play a

part, two years might not be enough to reach stability. Carol, I would

expect that an endo working with synthroid would have followed much the

same protocol as your GP with similar results. Switching docs might not

help, if you stay with synthroid alone.

OTOH, if T3 or TSH levels continue to move around on you, the only

solution might be to use a different medication, one that incorporates

some T3 directly, and which would allow day to day adjustments. I

certainly haven't needed that so far myself, but I can see where it

might be a useful alternative. Your current doc might even consider

this, if asked.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Tina,

You wrote:

> ... So I am assuming here

>that you are just low in your T4--and what about your own tsh

>numbers, does that correlate lower too??? or is that a higher number

>so your pituitary is working?? Is there any kind of rules in this

>illness, does one thing always mean another or is it always

>individualized.

>

My mother, sister, and I seem to be poster children for the traditional

synthroid protocol. Our conditions were detected by elevated TSH, and

all symptoms disappeared once we reached full dosage. All three had

stable responses after that. I have insisted on a blood test of TSH at

least every three months for the last two years to make sure. My mother

did get caught in the reformulation mistake years ago, when lots of

patients had to adjust dosage because the manufacturer changed

processes. She has since switched to a generic and had to adjust dosage

accordingly. Other than that we all feel very successful in the treatment.

Gracia tells me it will not last, but my mother is 76 with no

complaints. I'm carefully watching for the return of symptoms. If they

do return, and TSH stays in the normal range, then I will start asking

for the other tests, Free T3, etc. In the meantime, I don't feel they

are necessary, ... yet. Vague symptoms of adrenal fatigue seem to go

away if I just cut back on coffee.

I suspect responses seem so individualized, because we are dealing with

inherently complicated systems, which can be affected by many other

things. For example, partial or variable functioning of the thyroid

combined with treatment can be very dicey. My family seems to be

characterized by a complete permanent shutdown of the thyroid in middle

age, perhaps due to a genetic predisposition, perhaps common

environments or fluoride exposures, which can be treated very directly

by simply replacing all of the T4 it would have produced. Pituitary

response producing the TSH seems to be fine. I think I only had partial

thyroid functioning for a few months, gauging by the gradual onset of

TSH numbers. Of course it is hard to judge by only a few blood tests in

that period, one way before problems started, one in a routine physical,

and one immediately after under-dosage treatment started.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

The symptoms I associate with $ynthroid are elevated cholesterol levels,

osteoporosis, weight gain and mood and personality changes. My friend's

daughter has been on $ynthroid for 10 years, and says she is great on it.

She is always on a diet (chubby) and has the disposition of a starving

alligator.

But I am interested that $ynth works for your whole family and am glad that

we can discuss this in a nonadversarial way. It is good to know we aren't

all suffering--otherwise the docs would appear to be truly nuts.

Gracia

My mother, sister, and I seem to be poster children for the traditional

> synthroid protocol. Our conditions were detected by elevated TSH, and

> all symptoms disappeared once we reached full dosage. All three had

> stable responses after that. I have insisted on a blood test of TSH at

> least every three months for the last two years to make sure. My mother

> did get caught in the reformulation mistake years ago, when lots of

> patients had to adjust dosage because the manufacturer changed

> processes. She has since switched to a generic and had to adjust dosage

> accordingly. Other than that we all feel very successful in the treatment.

> Gracia tells me it will not last, but my mother is 76 with no

> complaints. I'm carefully watching for the return of symptoms. If they

> do return, and TSH stays in the normal range, then I will start asking

> for the other tests, Free T3, etc. In the meantime, I don't feel they

> are necessary, ... yet. Vague symptoms of adrenal fatigue seem to go

> away if I just cut back on coffee.

>

> I suspect responses seem so individualized, because we are dealing with

> inherently complicated systems, which can be affected by many other

> things. For example, partial or variable functioning of the thyroid

> combined with treatment can be very dicey. My family seems to be

> characterized by a complete permanent shutdown of the thyroid in middle

> age, perhaps due to a genetic predisposition, perhaps common

> environments or fluoride exposures, which can be treated very directly

> by simply replacing all of the T4 it would have produced. Pituitary

> response producing the TSH seems to be fine. I think I only had partial

> thyroid functioning for a few months, gauging by the gradual onset of

> TSH numbers. Of course it is hard to judge by only a few blood tests in

> that period, one way before problems started, one in a routine physical,

> and one immediately after under-dosage treatment started.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Right. I mean, some people must be doing fine on Synthroid only, or

I'd hate doctors even more than I already do. LOL

But this whole " doing great " is so subjective. I have an online

friend who is always depressed, always trying to lose the 50lb she

gained and failing miserably - she has left her marriage, changed

jobs 3 times, and nothing ever makes her feel good. She says her

thyroid gives her no problems whatsoever, she had RAI many years ago,

was put on 125mcg Synthroid and just stays on it, with one TSH test a

year. I've hinted she should have her thyroid checked, but she just

says she is " doing great " with it. I think she is denial about a

serious health problem, and meanwhile she keeps resetting her whole

life to try to find happiness when it could be just a lack of thyroid

hormone. Probably is. Considering most people need at least their

weight in Synthroid, and she is around 190lb and without a thyroid,

there is no way 125mcg could be enough.

Another real-life friend has been on 50mcg forever, is always

freezing, wearing sweaters when everyone else is in tank tops, and

thinks that is normal. For the weight she can't lose, she just gets

prescriptions for phentermine. She is also " doing great " . My own MIL

has been on 50mcg forever, the bald spot is growing and growing, has

had cataracts removed 3x, and recently started HRT but didn't ask the

doctor how that affected the Synthroid dosage, cause the " thyroid

gives her no trouble " .

My former boss is " doing great " on 25mcg, has hair like straw, joint

pain, gritty eyes, and yawns all day long. The doctor tells her the

joint pain is " because she is overweight " . *sigh*

It makes me sad but if you insist too much, these people also think

you are a hypochondriac. For them, the thyroid is just something that

makes you a bit fat, the rest of the symptoms they have are all

unrelated. I am the crazy one, " blaming it all on my thyroid " .

Jan

>

> The symptoms I associate with $ynthroid are elevated cholesterol

levels,

> osteoporosis, weight gain and mood and personality changes. My

friend's

> daughter has been on $ynthroid for 10 years, and says she is great

on it.

> She is always on a diet (chubby) and has the disposition of a

starving

> alligator.

> But I am interested that $ynth works for your whole family and am

glad that

> we can discuss this in a nonadversarial way. It is good to know we

aren't

> all suffering--otherwise the docs would appear to be truly nuts.

> Gracia

>

> My mother, sister, and I seem to be poster children for the

traditional

> > synthroid protocol. Our conditions were detected by elevated TSH,

and

> > all symptoms disappeared once we reached full dosage. All three

had

> > stable responses after that. I have insisted on a blood test of

TSH at

> > least every three months for the last two years to make sure. My

mother

> > did get caught in the reformulation mistake years ago, when lots

of

> > patients had to adjust dosage because the manufacturer changed

> > processes. She has since switched to a generic and had to adjust

dosage

> > accordingly. Other than that we all feel very successful in the

treatment.

> > Gracia tells me it will not last, but my mother is 76 with no

> > complaints. I'm carefully watching for the return of symptoms. If

they

> > do return, and TSH stays in the normal range, then I will start

asking

> > for the other tests, Free T3, etc. In the meantime, I don't feel

they

> > are necessary, ... yet. Vague symptoms of adrenal fatigue seem to

go

> > away if I just cut back on coffee.

> >

> > I suspect responses seem so individualized, because we are

dealing with

> > inherently complicated systems, which can be affected by many

other

> > things. For example, partial or variable functioning of the

thyroid

> > combined with treatment can be very dicey. My family seems to be

> > characterized by a complete permanent shutdown of the thyroid in

middle

> > age, perhaps due to a genetic predisposition, perhaps common

> > environments or fluoride exposures, which can be treated very

directly

> > by simply replacing all of the T4 it would have produced.

Pituitary

> > response producing the TSH seems to be fine. I think I only had

partial

> > thyroid functioning for a few months, gauging by the gradual

onset of

> > TSH numbers. Of course it is hard to judge by only a few blood

tests in

> > that period, one way before problems started, one in a routine

physical,

> > and one immediately after under-dosage treatment started.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

LOL so true. Meanwhile I say I am OK but I need more testosterone, of

course that goes over well.

Gracia

> Right. I mean, some people must be doing fine on Synthroid only, or

> I'd hate doctors even more than I already do. LOL

>

> But this whole " doing great " is so subjective.

[Guest guest]

Jan,

You wrote:

>... Considering most people need at least their

>weight in Synthroid, and she is around 190lb and without a thyroid,

>there is no way 125mcg could be enough. ...

>

There is no relationship between weight and the dosage required, as

there is for some drugs. Instead it is a question of how much the

thyroid is still working, if at all, and this can only be known reliably

through blood tests. The only dosage generalization I have heard is that

women usually require a larger full scale maintenance dose than men,

around 200 ug versus 100 ug for the men. That came from my doc, but he

had no qualms about exceeding this level, when my TSH was just out of

the normal range.

Also, my body temperature this morning was 98 F, rarely going below 97.

I was checking it, because I had a fever last week. In most settings I

am slightly more likely to feel too warm than too cold, except in the

winter. My head is still covered with normal to oily hair, except for a

spot near the center, which was there years before the thyroid quit. My

eyes and skin are not dry, red, or itchy. I am not depressed. I function

all day long, and I don't see things that are not there.

However, before my dosage was fine tuned, I experienced all of these

symptoms and more. Consequently, I am exquisitely aware of, and grateful

for, their absence.

Since synthetic T4 is THE most prescribed drug on the planet, I would

consider it likely that the majority of patients using it do fall into

the satisfied category with me. However, with such a large percentage of

the population afflicted, having even a small minority left with further

difficulties and complications still amounts to a lot of people. To them

I offer my sympathy and encouragement.

Hypothyroidism is a condition with many causes. It is not one disease

but many. Consequently the responses to treatment will also vary. We

should not expect one recommendation to be effective for all. This

caveat probably belongs on every message we exchange.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or adrenal

problems?

Jan

>

> LOL so true. Meanwhile I say I am OK but I need more testosterone,

of

> course that goes over well.

> Gracia

>

> > Right. I mean, some people must be doing fine on Synthroid only,

or

> > I'd hate doctors even more than I already do. LOL

> >

> > But this whole " doing great " is so subjective.

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

With Hashi's, of course it varies. However, she had RAI. She does not

have changing levels due to antibodies. With hashi's a person could

be 400lb and only need 25mcg, and another could be 100lb and need

300mcg, of course.

I am not saying there aren't people doing good with Synthroid only

out there. I am just saying that I personally know 3 people who are

in denial. They could probably feel good on Synthroid only, *if they

were on the right dosage*. And do that, they'd need to admit to

themselves and to their doctors that thy are not doing good. It is

not the drug that is the problem here, it is the patients. They could

be " doing just as good " on Armour or Thyrolar or whatever... It is

their own attitude of not taking an active role in their wellness and

just conforming to the disease. My former boss is not in denial, but

has a doctor that tells her all her problems are her menopause.

Whatever they are, I think she deserves to feel good. Menopause does

not have to equal suffering.

You misunderstood my post. It is not criticism of Synthroid. Heck, I

wish I didn't have a conversion problem and could do good on

Synthroid only. I'd give anything for that. But this is a very

overwhelming disease and few people are willing to admit that in

order to truly " do great " , we are gonna need to be constantly

vigilant of symptoms and probably tweaking dosages all the time,

especially with Hashi's. So when someone says they are doing great,

you need to take it with a grain of salt. The same is true of any

chronic disease. Most diabetics will tell you they are doing great

and can't really keep their BS under control. My SIL was " doing

great " with her diabetes until she died from it at age 29, cause she

was in denial about her control.

Jan

>

> >... Considering most people need at least their

> >weight in Synthroid, and she is around 190lb and without a

thyroid,

> >there is no way 125mcg could be enough. ...

> >

> There is no relationship between weight and the dosage required, as

> there is for some drugs. Instead it is a question of how much the

> thyroid is still working, if at all, and this can only be known

reliably

> through blood tests. The only dosage generalization I have heard is

that

> women usually require a larger full scale maintenance dose than

men,

> around 200 ug versus 100 ug for the men. That came from my doc, but

he

> had no qualms about exceeding this level, when my TSH was just out

of

> the normal range.

>

> Also, my body temperature this morning was 98 F, rarely going below

97.

> I was checking it, because I had a fever last week. In most

settings I

> am slightly more likely to feel too warm than too cold, except in

the

> winter. My head is still covered with normal to oily hair, except

for a

> spot near the center, which was there years before the thyroid

quit. My

> eyes and skin are not dry, red, or itchy. I am not depressed. I

function

> all day long, and I don't see things that are not there.

>

> However, before my dosage was fine tuned, I experienced all of

these

> symptoms and more. Consequently, I am exquisitely aware of, and

grateful

> for, their absence.

>

> Since synthetic T4 is THE most prescribed drug on the planet, I

would

> consider it likely that the majority of patients using it do fall

into

> the satisfied category with me. However, with such a large

percentage of

> the population afflicted, having even a small minority left with

further

> difficulties and complications still amounts to a lot of people. To

them

> I offer my sympathy and encouragement.

>

> Hypothyroidism is a condition with many causes. It is not one

disease

> but many. Consequently the responses to treatment will also vary.

We

> should not expect one recommendation to be effective for all. This

> caveat probably belongs on every message we exchange.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

Gracia

> Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or adrenal

> problems?

>

> Jan

>

[Guest guest]

If I do test positive for adrenals, it is something else to watch out

for them.

Last time I had a blood test, I was surprised to see my testosterone

was on the low end of normal (doc was suspecting PCOS - story of my

life, since I was 13 any gyn-ob thinks my endometriosis could be

PCOS), and I was surprised. I mean, I always assumed that with my

ongoing battle with acne and being WAY hairier than the rest of the

women in my family, it would be on the higher side. But I read

adrenals could explain both of those, so I guess I'll know soon.

Jan

>

> both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

> Gracia

>

> > Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or adrenal

> > problems?

> >

> > Jan

> >

[Guest guest]

Boy oh boy this sounds more like cushings which is an illness of the

adreanl family---the site I sent once you are in it you can't post

the exact link page that you are on---very annoying ---so you are

going to have to seach it yourself---look at the symptom page and do

a search on the site--If I find where I was reading again, I'll post

the info---but pcos and or cushings is somewhere to start to look --

also acne is a symptom and potassium/sodium imbalance is for both

hypo and adrenals

-- In hypothyroidism , " janjv1311 " <janaina@v...>

wrote:

> If I do test positive for adrenals, it is something else to watch

out

> for them.

>

> Last time I had a blood test, I was surprised to see my

testosterone

> was on the low end of normal (doc was suspecting PCOS - story of my

> life, since I was 13 any gyn-ob thinks my endometriosis could be

> PCOS), and I was surprised. I mean, I always assumed that with my

> ongoing battle with acne and being WAY hairier than the rest of the

> women in my family, it would be on the higher side. But I read

> adrenals could explain both of those, so I guess I'll know soon.

>

> Jan

>

>

> >

> > both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

> > Gracia

> >

> > > Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or adrenal

> > > problems?

> > >

> > > Jan

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

> > > Gracia

> > >

> > > > Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or

adrenal

> > > > problems?

> > > >

> > > > Jan

> > > >

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

> > > Gracia

> > >

> > > > Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or

adrenal

> > > > problems?

> > > >

> > > > Jan

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Well, my gyno just ruled out PCOS for the millionth time. The

ultrasound is not compatible with it, and the testosterone is low,

FSH, LH and prolactin normal. This is the only possible disease I

can't accuse doctors of ignoring, they've been checking it

obsessively half my life now, every time I get a new gyno they get

paranoid about it again.

But the Cushing's possibility is something to consider, I will read

more about it.

Jan

> > >

> > > both I guess. My adrenals just don't provide good backup.

> > > Gracia

> > >

> > > > Is the need for extra testosterone because of meno, or

adrenal

> > > > problems?

> > > >

> > > > Jan

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Leila,

First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source of

information and support to you and your family.

Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia and autism

at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have both

disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are many

folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are similarities with how

it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed. But also

know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely loving and

affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son attends

for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their teachers and

families.

I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a developmental

pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the county so

we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be sure.

Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good news is with

good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in his speech

and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his current speech

therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we first

started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend some good

professionals in your area.

Best of luck to you.

Pam O'Connor

[ ] New to group and need advice

I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a speech

delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in for

his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure out

why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown little

improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic and

told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up apraxia on

the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I read

Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took Ozzie to

see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He does

have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate and

loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the dr. but

she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

diagnosis. Any advice?

Leila

[Guest guest]

Hi Leila,

First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source of

information and support to you and your family.

Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia and autism

at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have both

disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are many

folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are similarities with how

it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed. But also

know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely loving and

affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son attends

for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their teachers and

families.

I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a developmental

pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the county so

we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be sure.

Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good news is with

good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in his speech

and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his current speech

therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we first

started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend some good

professionals in your area.

Best of luck to you.

Pam O'Connor

[ ] New to group and need advice

I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a speech

delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in for

his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure out

why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown little

improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic and

told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up apraxia on

the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I read

Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took Ozzie to

see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He does

have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate and

loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the dr. but

she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

diagnosis. Any advice?

Leila

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam for your words and advice, any help is great news, we live

in Silver Springs Md.

>

> Hi Leila,

>

> First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source

of

> information and support to you and your family.

>

> Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia and

autism

> at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have

both

> disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are

many

> folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

> professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are similarities

with how

> it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed.

But also

> know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely loving

and

> affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son

attends

> for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their

teachers and

> families.

>

> I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a

developmental

> pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the

county so

> we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be sure.

> Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good news

is with

> good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in

his speech

> and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his current

speech

> therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we

first

> started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

>

> Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend

some good

> professionals in your area.

>

> Best of luck to you.

>

> Pam O'Connor

> [ ] New to group and need advice

>

>

> I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a

speech

> delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

> preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in

for

> his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure

out

> why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown

little

> improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic

and

> told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up

apraxia on

> the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I read

> Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took

Ozzie to

> see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

> Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He does

> have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate

and

> loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the

dr. but

> she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

> diagnosis. Any advice?

>

> Leila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pam, Thanks so much for your response and welcome. We live in

Brunswick, Ohio which is near Cleveland. I just feel like I'm not

sure what I am supposed to do next. The doctor gave me so many

resources and groups to join and I just feel a little overwhelmed. I

wish she would have said, go home, do this first and this second. I

feel like my head is spinning. This group is helping. Thanks.

Leila

>

> Hi Leila,

>

> First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source

of

> information and support to you and your family.

>

> Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia

and autism

> at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have

both

> disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are

many

> folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

> professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are

similarities with how

> it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed.

But also

> know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely

loving and

> affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son

attends

> for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their

teachers and

> families.

>

> I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a

developmental

> pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the

county so

> we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be

sure.

> Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good

news is with

> good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in

his speech

> and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his

current speech

> therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we

first

> started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

>

> Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend

some good

> professionals in your area.

>

> Best of luck to you.

>

> Pam O'Connor

> [ ] New to group and need advice

>

>

> I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a

speech

> delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

> preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in

for

> his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure

out

> why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown

little

> improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic

and

> told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up

apraxia on

> the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I

read

> Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took

Ozzie to

> see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

> Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He

does

> have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate

and

> loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the

dr. but

> she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

> diagnosis. Any advice?

>

> Leila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pam, Thanks so much for your response and welcome. We live in

Brunswick, Ohio which is near Cleveland. I just feel like I'm not

sure what I am supposed to do next. The doctor gave me so many

resources and groups to join and I just feel a little overwhelmed. I

wish she would have said, go home, do this first and this second. I

feel like my head is spinning. This group is helping. Thanks.

Leila

>

> Hi Leila,

>

> First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source

of

> information and support to you and your family.

>

> Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia

and autism

> at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have

both

> disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are

many

> folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

> professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are

similarities with how

> it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed.

But also

> know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely

loving and

> affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son

attends

> for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their

teachers and

> families.

>

> I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a

developmental

> pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the

county so

> we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be

sure.

> Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good

news is with

> good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in

his speech

> and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his

current speech

> therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we

first

> started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

>

> Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend

some good

> professionals in your area.

>

> Best of luck to you.

>

> Pam O'Connor

> [ ] New to group and need advice

>

>

> I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a

speech

> delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

> preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in

for

> his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure

out

> why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown

little

> improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic

and

> told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up

apraxia on

> the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I

read

> Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took

Ozzie to

> see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

> Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He

does

> have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate

and

> loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the

dr. but

> she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

> diagnosis. Any advice?

>

> Leila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Leila,

Since I'm in the same boat as you, I'll put in my 2 cents. We just went through

the evaluation with our local school district and we'd been doing EI for the

past year. My son will be 3 in September. I don't get the results of his

evaluation until Sept 7 but they gave me some info on ASD as I walked out the

door so that is what I am expecting. The more I read, the more I realize that

the Austism Spectrum is huge. My son is interactive and affectionate too. But

he's got a serious language delay, sensory and behavior issues and has a really

hard time transitioning from one activity to another (unless he wants to!)

From the little I've learned so far, it seems like there are at least 100 things

they look for when diagnosing autism and no child has all of them. They look at

all of these individual characteristics and behaviors and then determine if your

child fits on the autism spectrum. But it is a spectrum - there isn't one form

of autism. You can have 100 differnent kids diagnosed with ASD and they are all

autistic but how it presents in each one can be dramatically different.

But, in the grand scheme of things, even if you don't necessarily agree with an

ASD diagnosis, I've been told by numerious people that it is better to accept

that diagnosis and move forward with it. I don't know where you live, but here,

kids who get the ASD diagnosis have 2-3 times the access to services as kids

with other diagnosises.

So from my perspective, if they want to label my son as " martian " if that get

him more services, I'm okay with it. So even though an austism diagnosis is

extremely devastating to hear it can be an important tool in helping your son.

Don't reject it outright. And remember that even with an ASD diagnosis, he's

the same kid today he was a week ago and you'll love him just the same. But now

he has access to services to help him be the kid that he has the potential to

be.

:-)Tera

" It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without

accepting it " .

----- Original Message ----

From: leilajindra ljindra@...

I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a speech

delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in for

his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure out

why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown little

improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic and

told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up apraxia on

the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I read

Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took Ozzie to

see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He does

have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate and

loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the dr. but

she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

diagnosis. Any advice?

Leila

Recent Activity

32New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam for your words and advice, any help is great news, we live

in Silver Springs Md.

>

> Hi Leila,

>

> First, welcome to this group. You'll find it to be a great source

of

> information and support to you and your family.

>

> Our son is now four, and was diagnosed with both apraxia and

autism

> at around age two. While it is not uncommon for children to have

both

> disorders, apraxia often is a stand along diagnosis, and there are

many

> folks on this board for whom that is the case. Since not as many

> professionals are familiar with apraxia, and there are similarities

with how

> it presents to an unfamiliar eye, a lot of kids are misdiagnosed.

But also

> know that many children on the autism spectrum are extremely loving

and

> affectionate -- in fact most of the children at the school my son

attends

> for children with autism are literal cuddlebunnies with their

teachers and

> families.

>

> I would definitely take your son for a second opinion with a

developmental

> pediatrician (MD). In our case, we had our son screened with the

county so

> we could receive services, and also went to see two docs to be sure.

> Everyone agreed, including the two SLPs he sees. But the good news

is with

> good, frequent therapy, your son should make wonderful strides in

his speech

> and behavior. And if he has not shown improvement with his current

speech

> therapist, please switch. Don't make the mistake I did when we

first

> started therapy and stay with an ineffective therapist too long.

>

> Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recommend

some good

> professionals in your area.

>

> Best of luck to you.

>

> Pam O'Connor

> [ ] New to group and need advice

>

>

> I have a son named Ozzie. He is just over 3 and he has had a

speech

> delay for a while. He went through EI and is now going to start

> preschool through the school system in the fall. When he went in

for

> his 3 yr. apt. with his dr. I asked should I be trying to figure

out

> why he is not talking? He has been in speech therapy and shown

little

> improvement. She told me she thought he might be verbal apraxic

and

> told me to go see a developmentalist with him. I looked up

apraxia on

> the internet and found the Cherub foundation web site. When I read

> Tanner's story it was like I was reading Ozzie's. I just took

Ozzie to

> see the developmentalist today and left there with a diagnosis of

> Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Should I get a second opinion? He does

> have sensory and behavioral issues, but he is very affectionate

and

> loving. I'm not sure what to do. I brought up apraxia with the

dr. but

> she felt that since he had the other issues ASD was a better

> diagnosis. Any advice?

>

> Leila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>