Exercise Question

August 31, 2001

: Those of you whose pain and

inflammation is mainly in your feet/ankles/knees, what kind of

exercise do you do? I would love to swim but there is no pool even

remotely near me, and in New England, the season for swimming

outdoors is just about over. (Besides, after years of being a slug,

there is NO WAY I want to appear in public in a bathing suit.)Any

ideas?

Also, as an aside, I just want to mention one of my little pet

peeves, which is the assumption a lot of people make that my

arthritis is caused by my gaining weight. BZZZT! (That was the sound

of the wrong-answer buzzer.) I had this back when I was a skinny

person. Au contraire--I have gained weight because, first off, I

haven't exercised because it hurts.

,

I too gained weight because of pain. I have inflammation in my feet, ankles,

and knees also. But my rheumy told me get a good pair of tennies like New

Balance (very supportive), walk on level ground or a treadmill. Take it easy

at first and slow. Do range of motion exercises to keep your joints movable.

Even if you can only do 5minutes at a time, do it. Do 5 minutes 3 times a

day and work from there. I have managed to lose 50 pounds in the last year

from that advice.

Good luck.

Carol in Vancouver, WA

August 31, 2001

Hi -- I have PA in most of my major joints, but it sometimes has

concentrated in ankles and knees. I find walking just about the best exercise I

can do because it doesn't require a lot of effort and I can do it at my own

pace. Some days I hurt and don't really feel like walking, but if I get out

there I usually loosen up and feel better after a block or two. But everyone is

different and the level of pain they feel a personal thing. Since you haven't

exercised much recently, I suggest you start slowly, with a limited goal --

maybe a block or two. Sometimes if I'm really hurting, I'll pull an elastic

knee-brace or ankle-brace on and that helps support and warm up the joint.

Feel better!

Jan O', Alaska

September 2, 2001

Hi . My pain is predominently in my ankles and right knee and

methyltrexate and Remicade brought me back to the world of exercise again. I

started with aqua-aerobics, which I loved. However, it's difficult to get to

the local YMCA given my demanding job, my five and seven year old girls, and my

husband's work schedule (he's a police detective.) So... I started yoga at

home, with a DVD that has three programs; a.m., p.m. and stress relief. I also

with an exercise ball and a few video tapes, which helped with my back.

Finally, I try to walk the dog at night, which is always the time of day when I

feel best. I have inserts for my tennis shoes, which have helped immensely and

I jump in the bathtub

as soon as I return... just to " soak. " Good luck.

sarahr@... wrote:

> Hi, all. I started methotrexate a few weeks ago and it is starting to

> kick in a little (I think)--I noticed yesterday that some of the

> stiffness is gone from my ankles and I don't hobble like a Chinese

> lady with bound feet quite so much.Yippeee!! What this has done,

> among other things, is make me think about the possibility of

> actually starting some kind of exercise program. FOr the last several

> years I have been a slug most of the time because it hurt so much to

> exercise. Here's my question: Those of you whose pain and

> inflammation is mainly in your feet/ankles/knees, what kind of

> exercise do you do? I would love to swim but there is no pool even

> remotely near me, and in New England, the season for swimming

> outdoors is just about over. (Besides, after years of being a slug,

> there is NO WAY I want to appear in public in a bathing suit.)Any

> ideas?

> Also, as an aside, I just want to mention one of my little pet

> peeves, which is the assumption a lot of people make that my

> arthritis is caused by my gaining weight. BZZZT! (That was the sound

> of the wrong-answer buzzer.) I had this back when I was a skinny

> person. Au contraire--I have gained weight because, first off, I

> haven't exercised because it hurts, and second, because I keep having

> to take steroids for either asthma or disc pain. WHy is that people

> seem to think it's okay to assume stuff like that, and worse, to

> comment on it? It is starting to get to me.

> Oh well, I am just so happy that the MTX is starting to kick in that

> I can't stay mad too long. I am looking forward to hearing what

> people are doing to keep moving. Thanks.

>

March 15, 2003

,

Since last year I have tried something new - that is aquatics - meaning

water exercise: it is not water aerobics, but a workout made for me by

the PTs I worked with after back surgery. Since then, new exercises have

been added. The program I am in is supervised and the Head Aquatics

Instructor knows of my back surgery last year AND of my CMT. So, when I

am able to master a certain set of movements, something else is added,

and creates more work. Like the water tai chi now that has been added

recently.

The best part is this takes all stress off my joints and works only

muscles, and because it is a program for STRENGTH, NOT ENDURANCE, I have

had incredible results since last Fall. I do this 2-3 times a week for

one hour each. It is a very full, non stop hour each time. So no, I do

not worry. I have done horsebackriding, aerobics, yoga, and biking. On

my days off from aquatics, weather pending, I still bike, also walk with

my dogs. I use an hour as my marker for everything. I figure if I get

3-4 hours of exercise a week, I'm in balance. Not too much, not too

little, just enough. So, I use good judgement too. Varying what I do for

exercise between aquatics makes everything work well. Also if it is fun,

I get alot out of it. If it is not fun, I stop it.

Two signs are evident that I am pushing myself too hard: my tremors

surge and sometimes get a dull muscle ache. But with rest, that

evaporates quickly. Since I also garden, in order to pace myself there,

I work only 1 hour at a time and use a timer. (I could easily get lost

there and loose all track of time) When it goes off, I go do something

else, then , go back to the garden, or hop on the bike, etc.

Ever since I was diagnosed, I have swam off and on, also walked in sand

for strength and by the time I was 6 or 7, I was biking too. In school I

was a mess on team sports, but on my own, I have done fine.

For it all, even the aquatics, I wear shoes with Spenco cushions in

them. Rest of the time (out of the pool) I wear shoes with my orthotics.

Both Spenco's and orthotics give me a better schock-absorbed foot

strike, especially on hard surfaces like concrete sidewalks.

My exercising - whather the kind, is done in the mornings. My body is

more rested and I can focus on what I am doing. If I REALLY have pain I

stop, rest, ice the area, and if that doesn't work, I take a few days

off from it all. Last resort is to check things out with my doctors. We

are all different in our exercise tolerance range. Also, when I first

started this new aquatics, I was pretty beat for the first 3 weeks, but

I kept going, just slowed the routine down. That worked fine and my body

soon adapted. Hope this helps.

~ Gretchen

March 15, 2003

Gretchen,

First of all where do you live (state)? That aquatics program sounds

wonderful. Also, when you do exercise, do your muscles burn intensely? I

used to play competitive tennis five years ago, and now if I walk more than 30

minutes or exercise at all for that amount of time, my muscles really hurt.

Is this just a sign that I might be out of shape and should I just keep going,

so that eventually I won't feel any pain? I am concerned that by accepting

the burning and continuing, I might make my CMT worse. If anyone has a

thought on ths subject, I would love to hear from you.

Karon

March 15, 2003

In a message dated 3/15/2003 12:59:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,

warmhearts@... writes:

> How do you deal with exercise and how

> do you know when it's too much?

>

> TIA,

>

> Colorado, USA

>

I was in my early teens when all the " lets get physical " stuff was popular.

That and roller skating. (Oh and wearing heels with jeans but that is another

story.) I couldn't get physical, skate or wear high heel shoes.

I have know answer to your question. I just wanted to complain a bit. LOL

March 16, 2003

Karon,

I live in a small suburb of Calif. No, during exercise, my muscles do

not burn intensely. When I am in aquatics, it is so concentrated and

fast paced, all that I get is thirsty! (indoors, 92 degree pool), so if

anything I am drinking more water before and after. As for whatever

walks I do, sometimes afterwards, when I take off my shoes, I feel the

feet burning - again. But then my feet (bottoms) have been burning since

pre-diagnosis days off and on.

I don't know what you tell you about your hurting muscles except what I

have learned from this is to start slow, no matter what you do. Maybe

check in with your doc and see what type of exercise program would be

best for you - maybe something like yoga or tai chi?

~ Gretchen

July 7, 2003

It's way rough in the beginning because of the die-off, you mentioned sf722,

did you order the molypicolinate or peppermint oil for die-off? Also need to

drink lots and lots of water...luke warm is better and make self have several

bowel movements a day, increase fiber etc. Exercise will help, swearing gerts

toxins out, like yeast and increases immunity. The beer really was a big

problem, that's just full of yeasts!!!! You will feel better soon , go to

modernherbalist.com and stay on diet

August 21, 2006

I could write a long post but the bottom line is that your calories

are still too high. You need to reduce your intake.

Brad

>

> Stats: 47yo, 5'11 " , injecting 40 units Test Cyp once a week, HCG inj

> 250 twice a week, Arimidex every third day, all under the guidance of

> Dr. Crisler. Last labs: T 413 (ref 241-827), E 21.

>

> I decided to finally do something about my weight (225 back in March)

> so I started working out, using the stairstepper and cross trainer. I

> exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my pulse up to and over

> 160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to the machines, I

> typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

>

> Twice a week I lift weights, high weight/low reps, exhausting my

> muscles in 5-8 reps. Everything I read says this, more than anything

> else, will help me get rid of my extra weight.

>

> SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but losing it VERY

> slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214 last week. With

> the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I expected quicker

> results, especially since I'm on T. I've also changed my diet - no

> fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more veggies and high-fiber

> snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every couple of hours, and

> I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9 months ago it was

> more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise, two big meals a day.

>

> Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's taking SO long to lose

> this weight and how I can speed up the process? I know that if I don't

> start seeing real progress soon, I'll probably get discouraged and

> call it quits.

>

> TIA,

>

> Jim

>

August 21, 2006

Jim -

You should try keeping a food diary. Pay attention to

portion sizes. I am doing Weight Watchers online and

finding it very helpful.

What about your T level? It looks awfully low for

being on TRT.

Jim

--- jimevans_2000 <jimevans_2000@...> wrote:

> Stats: 47yo, 5'11 " , injecting 40 units Test Cyp once

> a week, HCG inj

> 250 twice a week, Arimidex every third day, all

> under the guidance of

> Dr. Crisler. Last labs: T 413 (ref 241-827), E

> 21.

>

> I decided to finally do something about my weight

> (225 back in March)

> so I started working out, using the stairstepper and

> cross trainer. I

> exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my

> pulse up to and over

> 160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to

> the machines, I

> typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

>

> Twice a week I lift weights, high weight/low reps,

> exhausting my

> muscles in 5-8 reps. Everything I read says this,

> more than anything

> else, will help me get rid of my extra weight.

>

> SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but

> losing it VERY

> slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214

> last week. With

> the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I

> expected quicker

> results, especially since I'm on T. I've also

> changed my diet - no

> fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more

> veggies and high-fiber

> snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every

> couple of hours, and

> I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9

> months ago it was

> more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise,

> two big meals a day.

>

> Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's

> taking SO long to lose

> this weight and how I can speed up the process? I

> know that if I don't

> start seeing real progress soon, I'll probably get

> discouraged and

> call it quits.

>

> TIA,

>

> Jim

>

__________________________________________________

August 21, 2006

Hey Jim-

Here's my thoughts:

(1) You put the weight on slowly, so it will come off slowly.

(2) Any rapid weight loss is almost always majority water, which leads

to re-gain later. " Melting " it off is the right thing, which you are

doing.

(3) You are doing the right thing by exercising and reducing calories.

I would try to reduce the calories some more...watch the carbs late in

the day, and after dinner. Also, watch the sugar. There are also

" hidden " calories such as soft drinks & other thinks you may be

consuming. Eliminate these.

(4) I would increase my lifting to 3 times per week, maybe 4 if you

have the time/desire. Muscle requires more calories than fat, thus,

the more muscle you build, the more your body will burn. Weight

training also has a cardio effect if you don't stand around too much

talking.

(5) I know it sounds simple, but if you burn more calories than you

take in each day, you lose weight. Just the opposite to gain,

obviously. Thus, keep doing what you're doing and cut a few calories

here and there, and intensify your weight training.

(6) Losing weight and keeping it off is a lifestyle change. Once you

get to where you want to be, you can make some minor changes upwards

(in calories), but it will be imperative to stick with the lifestyle

change. Or, you'll gain it all back.

(7) Cut the alcohol out completely if you can, or spread it out....None

today, but some tomorrow. Not only is it high in carbs and sugar, but

it significantly slows your metabolism.

(8) You need to also remember that after losing a little bit of weight

(say 5-10 lbs), your body will actually fight you on the project. Your

body doesn't want to lose the weight....it has a natural " set point "

and will slow it's metabolism to compensate. Thus, you'll need to

fight through it by the measures I've outlined.

Good luck to you. You'll love the changes.

Bill

On Aug 21, 2006, at 11:50 AM, jimevans_2000 wrote:

> Stats: 47yo, 5'11 " , injecting 40 units Test Cyp once a week, HCG inj

> 250 twice a week, Arimidex every third day, all under the guidance of

> Dr. Crisler. Last labs: T 413 (ref 241-827), E 21.

>

> I decided to finally do something about my weight (225 back in March)

> so I started working out, using the stairstepper and cross trainer. I

> exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my pulse up to and over

> 160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to the machines, I

> typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

>

> Twice a week I lift weights, high weight/low reps, exhausting my

> muscles in 5-8 reps. Everything I read says this, more than anything

> else, will help me get rid of my extra weight.

>

> SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but losing it VERY

> slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214 last week. With

> the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I expected quicker

> results, especially since I'm on T. I've also changed my diet - no

> fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more veggies and high-fiber

> snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every couple of hours, and

> I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9 months ago it was

> more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise, two big meals a

> day.

>

> Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's taking SO long to lose

> this weight and how I can speed up the process? I know that if I don't

> start seeing real progress soon, I'll probably get discouraged and

> call it quits.

>

> TIA,

>

> Jim

>

August 21, 2006

Hey Jim - Congrats on taking the step to live a healthier lifestyle. First,

don't bank on bang for your buck because you are on TRT. Your T levels are

realatively low. If your values were in 1000 range, then you would probably see

increased benefits of extra T in your system. Your exercise routine sound like

it is appropriate for losing weight with 4 days a week of cardio, 2 days a week

for weight training. This leaves diet. Have you looked at your caloric intake?

Also, what percent of your diet is from carbohydrates. I noticed you did not

mention sweets or desserts. For me, I get more weight lose by cutting out the

sugars and starches. (no desserts, candy, pasta, bread..... you get the

picture). I also do better by counting the calories. Estimate the weight you

want to be, see how many calories it takes to support that, then make that your

life style. The extra exercise you are doing should take off the unwanted

pounds.

The only other alternative is to increase your T to a much higher level but

then you will throw the rest of your hormones out of wack. If you are feeling

good, I would only do that as a last resort.

Good Luck - Arkansas

jimevans_2000 <jimevans_2000@...> wrote:

Stats: 47yo, 5'11 " , injecting 40 units Test Cyp once a week, HCG inj

250 twice a week, Arimidex every third day, all under the guidance of

Dr. Crisler. Last labs: T 413 (ref 241-827), E 21.

I decided to finally do something about my weight (225 back in March)

so I started working out, using the stairstepper and cross trainer. I

exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my pulse up to and over

160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to the machines, I

typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

Twice a week I lift weights, high weight/low reps, exhausting my

muscles in 5-8 reps. Everything I read says this, more than anything

else, will help me get rid of my extra weight.

SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but losing it VERY

slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214 last week. With

the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I expected quicker

results, especially since I'm on T. I've also changed my diet - no

fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more veggies and high-fiber

snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every couple of hours, and

I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9 months ago it was

more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise, two big meals a day.

Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's taking SO long to lose

this weight and how I can speed up the process? I know that if I don't

start seeing real progress soon, I'll probably get discouraged and

call it quits.

TIA,

Jim

---------------------------------

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

August 21, 2006

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:50:08 -0000, you wrote:

>SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but losing it VERY

>slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214 last week. With

>the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I expected quicker

>results, especially since I'm on T. I've also changed my diet - no

>fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more veggies and high-fiber

>snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every couple of hours, and

>I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9 months ago it was

>more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise, two big meals a day.

>

>Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's taking SO long to lose

>this weight and how I can speed up the process?

I was in a similar boat. I stopped eating high sugar foods and dropped

10 lbs in the first month (now it's slower again). I still eat fats

but try to eat healthy.

Whine you start looking at sugar content you'll find lots of things

you think of as healthy are very high in sugar. A teaspoon is 4 gr. of

sugar. My yogurt that I thought of as healthy had 40 gr. of sugar! 10

Teaspoons. SImilarly my whole grain cereal had 4 teaspoons of sugar

per serving. So at a " good " breakfast I was getting almost 15

teaspoons of sugar. " Healthy " juices are also carrying 6 or more

teaspoons. It was everywhere.

By simply avoiding most of those high sources and cutting high refined

starch (white breads) from my diet 10 lbs fell of in about 2 1/2

weeks. Look to complex grains. They digest slower and do not convert

so quickly to sugars. I've taken to oatmeal breakfasts and plain

shredded wheat. And lots of salads. (But even salad dressings can

hide lots of sugar.)

I got the idea for doing this from a dietician I saw on TV . He noted

these are empty calories and trigger a rush and crash cycle that sees

you hungry shortly later. The interviewer said " so cut back on sugars

- and fats too right? " . And he said fats aren't such a big deal (if

you eat the right ones - no Trans fats, no fast food fries. Use

canola oil/margarine olive oil, etc. ) He notes if you eat something

heavy in good fats - you won't be hungry again for hours. So it's not

all that evil.

All I can say is it worked for me. Now I'm back to the 2 to 3 lbs a

month of loss. But that's okay.

T also compunds things because you will as you exercise put on more

muscle than otherwise. So I'm finding while I've not lost as much

weight as I set out to I'm much thinner and a bit more muscular than I

expected.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

August 21, 2006

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:50:08 -0000, you wrote:

>I decided to finally do something about my weight (225 back in March)

>so I started working out, using the stairstepper and cross trainer. I

>exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my pulse up to and over

>160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to the machines, I

>typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

Oh one more thing- do cardio exercise more than weights. The best

exercises for burning weight and not bulking up are bicycling and

swimming. Many more calories for the hour.

See the chart here:

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec01/ch006/ch006e.html

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

August 21, 2006

>

> I could write a long post but the bottom line is that your calories

> are still too high. You need to reduce your intake.

> Brad

I agree with that.

I used to believe that if I exercised a lot I wouldn't have to

worry too much about my intake. I also had a partner at work who

used to say that he ate less so that he wouldn't have to exercise.

He was skinny and I was fat. Guess who stayed skinny and who got

fatter.

The basic math involved in the energy in-out equation for our

bodies shows that it's very hard to lose weight through exercise and

that the approach that has the best payoff is calorie reduction --

provided, of course, that one is capable of controlling the intake

on a consistent basis.

The general concept to start with is that if our energy intake

is equal to our energy expenditure, we stay in equilibrium. If we

take in more energy (calories) than we expend, we store the excess

as fat. If we expend more energy than we take in, then the body

turns to its internal energy warehouse (fat) to sustain its needs.

If energy expenditure exceeds energy intake by 3,500 calories, most

people will lose one pound, on average. If energy intake exceeds

energy expenditure by 3,500 calories, most people will gain one

pound, on average.

To create an energy deficit so that the body turns to its fat

stores, there are two basic approaches. Either increase energy

expenditure or decrease energy intake. It turns out that it takes a

huge amount of energy expenditure (exercise) to increase the output,

compared to the effectiveness of reducing the intake by reducing

food consumption.

Take a simple comparison. Two Oreo cookies have about 100

calories. A 150 pound person expends 100 calories by walking a

mile. Which takes less time out of a busy schedule, walking a mile

or foregoing the ingestion of two Oreo cookies????

Obviously, it's a bit more complex than that, with lots more

variables, but changing one's habits on a permanent basis to reduce

the number of calories ingested is the safest bet towards weight

reduction.

What's hard is making that a life change rather than just a

diet, because if the change is merely a temporary diet and we go

back to old habits, we will go back to old weight. This is the

reason that so many people can be so successful at losing weight but

so poor at keeping it off.

As for me, I finally recognized that trying to diet was futile,

and I was never successful in making the permanent mental, habitual

change, so I did some minimally invasive bariatric surgery (the

laproscopic adjustable gastric band), and have lost over 90 pounds

in the last 10 months.

This is my first post here, after lurking for a month or two.

In the next couple of weeks, I'll probably be posting about a

particular regimen that I'm working with. I have the before

bloodwork but won't have the " after " bloodwork for another couple of

weeks, so there's nothing yet to report.

Bob

August 21, 2006

> >

> > I could write a long post but the bottom line is that your calories

> > are still too high. You need to reduce your intake.

> > Brad

>

> I agree with that.

>

> I used to believe that if I exercised a lot I wouldn't have to

> worry too much about my intake.

Well, precisely. Alot of people, men especially, believe this. " I

exercise so I can eat whatever I want. " This only works for those who

don't want that much to start with. When I say this to people, they

usually turn a deaf ear to it. Give me a knife & fork and access to a

pantry and I can undo an hours' worth of exercise in 5 minutes.

> I also had a partner at work who

> used to say that he ate less so that he wouldn't have to exercise.

> He was skinny and I was fat. Guess who stayed skinny and who got

> fatter.

Often the thing we resist the most is the very thing we need to do.

I, too, have learned the hard way.

>

> The basic math involved in the energy in-out equation for our

> bodies shows that it's very hard to lose weight through exercise and

> that the approach that has the best payoff is calorie reduction --

> provided, of course, that one is capable of controlling the intake

> on a consistent basis.

>

> The general concept to start with is that if our energy intake

> is equal to our energy expenditure, we stay in equilibrium. If we

> take in more energy (calories) than we expend, we store the excess

> as fat. If we expend more energy than we take in, then the body

> turns to its internal energy warehouse (fat) to sustain its needs.

> If energy expenditure exceeds energy intake by 3,500 calories, most

> people will lose one pound, on average. If energy intake exceeds

> energy expenditure by 3,500 calories, most people will gain one

> pound, on average.

>

> To create an energy deficit so that the body turns to its fat

> stores, there are two basic approaches. Either increase energy

> expenditure or decrease energy intake. It turns out that it takes a

> huge amount of energy expenditure (exercise) to increase the output,

> compared to the effectiveness of reducing the intake by reducing

> food consumption.

>

> Take a simple comparison. Two Oreo cookies have about 100

> calories. A 150 pound person expends 100 calories by walking a

> mile. Which takes less time out of a busy schedule, walking a mile

> or foregoing the ingestion of two Oreo cookies????

>

Even if you could exercise almost all the time, there is still a limit

to how high you can get your caloric expenditure over 24hrs. Because

our foods are so calorically dense, the amount of calories we can take

over 24hrs is practically limitless. The actual volume of food

necessary to meet our caloric needs is tiny.

> Obviously, it's a bit more complex than that, with lots more

> variables, but changing one's habits on a permanent basis to reduce

> the number of calories ingested is the safest bet towards weight

> reduction.

>

The simpler the plan, the better. Often the " complexities " come from

trying to avoid the uncomfortable truth of the need to restrict calories.

> What's hard is making that a life change rather than just a

> diet, because if the change is merely a temporary diet and we go

> back to old habits, we will go back to old weight. This is the

> reason that so many people can be so successful at losing weight but

> so poor at keeping it off.

>

There are an endless variety of plans. Some are no doubt healthier

than others. Over a long time horizon (>2yrs or so) people fail at

about the same rate, regardless of what plan they started on.

Bariatric surgery is the exception. So, yes, compliance is the most

essential factor for long term success assuming the plan is effective

in the first place.

> As for me, I finally recognized that trying to diet was futile,

> and I was never successful in making the permanent mental, habitual

> change, so I did some minimally invasive bariatric surgery (the

> laproscopic adjustable gastric band), and have lost over 90 pounds

> in the last 10 months.

>

Eating is very gratifying and instantaneously so. Changing your

eating habits means going from choices that are highly satisfying to

those that are less satisfying.

> This is my first post here, after lurking for a month or two.

> In the next couple of weeks, I'll probably be posting about a

> particular regimen that I'm working with. I have the before

> bloodwork but won't have the " after " bloodwork for another couple of

> weeks, so there's nothing yet to report.

>

> Bob

>

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Brad

August 21, 2006

I agree with Brad, your calories are too high. For one thing cut that beer to

one or two a week. I used to do that too but cut it away down. I am 83 and

I am no longer overweight. I bicycle 3 times a week and do abs but that is

all my exercise. I don't have any flab anymore. I can get into my WII

uniform again. I think you are going at the exercise program a little strong,

what you eat is more important. I weigh about 175 and 5ft. 10in. Almost

the same as when I was in service. Like others have said here, write down

what you eat each day, that is more important. You will be surprised!

Blessings,

Roy

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August 21, 2006

Jim - noticed there's a lot of replies here and I haven't read any

of them, so excuse any redundant feedback. Don't mean to come off as

an expert, but am an avid exercisor (is that a word?)and former- All-

American athlete - so, I will offer...

1 Combining weight-training and cardio will provide the most

benefits. You may benefit from more weight-training but, at 47yoa,

you're doing better than 99.9% of population, so GREAT for you.

Still another day of weight-training may help and I would consider

goign to 6-10 reps. I prefer 4 days a week of weight-training and if

you're serious about weights, I'd be happy to share some good

routines/schedules.

2 There are 3 main elements to keeping a healthy body (ok, hormone

balance too..) Exercise, Diet, Rest/Sleep. You'll be amazed how

subtle changes in any will have big impact.

3 Keep log of EVERYTHING you eat and look for opportunities for

improvement. Eat CLEAN foods. Identifying a clean food is easy -

when you pick up something if you can identify ALL the ingredients

in it by looking at it and they are all healthy,it's CLEAN. If you

pick up a candy bar, can you name all the ingredients without

reading the label? No, so it's not clean. Pick up an Apple, can you

tell me what's in it? You bet, it's clean. Those are easy examples,

but whatabout your salad for dinner? Did you put dressing on it from

the store? Bet you can't tell me what's in it. Instead Olive Oil and

Vinegar. Evaluate everythin you eat in this manner and your diet

will improve. Nevermind storebought diet meals - clean foods are the

best diet foods there are.

5. MOre fish, chicken, less red meat. No brainer here.

6. Eat a big breakfast (no bacon) and spread your meals throughout

the day. Ideally, eating every 2.5 hours. This amy be WAY too

serious for you, but keeps your fire stoked and furnace burning.

7. Subtle shifts in when yoiu eat what will help. I wouldn't be

surprised if you ate the exact same food you always eat, but shifted

when you ate them, that you would see benefits. Eat your carbs for

breakfast (include protein here as well) and luch. For dinner, eat

fish and a salad and 2 sides of raw or steamedveggies. Simply not

eating carbs after 5:00PM will help. Push more of your calories to

earlier in the day.

8. Stay away from sugars, especially high-fructose corn syrup (Coca-

Cola), it's poison. Fruit is great, but better to eat them a little

earlier than later. Better as mid-afternoon snack than before

bedtime snack. Carbs either get burned or stored. If you eat them

before bed, they're gonna get stored - in your gut.

9. Drink more water.

Good luck.

>

> Stats: 47yo, 5'11 " , injecting 40 units Test Cyp once a week, HCG

inj

> 250 twice a week, Arimidex every third day, all under the guidance

of

> Dr. Crisler. Last labs: T 413 (ref 241-827), E 21.

>

> I decided to finally do something about my weight (225 back in

March)

> so I started working out, using the stairstepper and cross

trainer. I

> exercise 4 to 5 times a week and typically get my pulse up to and

over

> 160bpm for 25-35 minutes each session. According to the machines, I

> typically burn 400-600 calories each time.

>

> Twice a week I lift weights, high weight/low reps, exhausting my

> muscles in 5-8 reps. Everything I read says this, more than

anything

> else, will help me get rid of my extra weight.

>

> SO, here's my question. Yes, I'm losing weight, but losing it VERY

> slowly - like maybe 2 pounds a month. I weighed 214 last week. With

> the amount of effort I'm putting into this, I expected quicker

> results, especially since I'm on T. I've also changed my diet - no

> fried foods, rarely eat fast foods, much more veggies and high-

fiber

> snacks, I'm eating low-cal, low-fat snacks every couple of hours,

and

> I've cut my alcohol intake to a beer or two a day. 9 months ago it

was

> more like 3-4 beers a day, fast food, no exercise, two big meals a

day.

>

> Can one of you guys give me an idea of why it's taking SO long to

lose

> this weight and how I can speed up the process? I know that if I

don't

> start seeing real progress soon, I'll probably get discouraged and

> call it quits.

>

> TIA,

>

> Jim

>

August 22, 2006

Brad,

Based on my online calorie report, in a typical week I'm burning far

more calories than I'm consuming - some days up to twice as many, when

both exercise and resting calories are accounted for.

One goal is to increase my metabolism. I think that reducing my

calories further will work against me by reducing my metabolism. It

feels weird to be eating something every two hours in order to gain

weight, but over and over I run into the same advice online: eat 5-6

small meals a day rather than 2-3 big meals.

I'm watching very carefully what I eat - my " snacks " are usually low-

cal, low-fat, low sugar yogurt or cottage cheese, or a high-fiber, low

calorie bran bar. My dinner meals are typically stir-fry veggies or

something similar.

Thanks for the post,

Ji

>

> I could write a long post but the bottom line is that your calories

> are still too high. You need to reduce your intake.

> Brad

August 22, 2006

Bob,

Thanks for the reply and welcome to the group.

I've come to believe that weight issues are complex beyond our

understanding. Sure, there's the calorie intake/expediture part, but

there's also the blood sugar/insulin aspect, the T aspect, estrogen,

the thyroid aspect, growth hormone, cortisone, homeostasis,

metabolism, DHEA, and so much interaction between all of them that a

simple answer is probably not just simple, but simplistic.

By reducing my calories, reducing my sugar and fat intake, engaging

both in cardio and weight training, I expected to lose 1-2 pounds a

week - or somewhere around 6-8 pounds a month. To have lost a total

of 8 pounds or so over 4 months is just discouraging and frankly, not

worth the expenditure in time. If things don't turn around soon, I'm

going to have to rethink my approach. I must say, though, that I do

enjoy being in better shape and having more energy. I only wish my

waistline was showing the results of my hard work.

Jim

>

> >

> > I could write a long post but the bottom line is that your

calories

> > are still too high. You need to reduce your intake.

> > Brad

>

> I agree with that.

>

> I used to believe that if I exercised a lot I wouldn't have to

> worry too much about my intake. I also had a partner at work who

> used to say that he ate less so that he wouldn't have to exercise.

> He was skinny and I was fat. Guess who stayed skinny and who got

> fatter.

>

> The basic math involved in the energy in-out equation for our

> bodies shows that it's very hard to lose weight through exercise