Re: Rabies shots for dogs

[Guest guest]

Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.

I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this.

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson

____________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.

I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this.

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson

____________________________________________________________

Click for FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates approvals nationwide

[Guest guest]

Hullo Matt. Try the titer test route and try to avoid it, and then try for the additional three year waive paperwork, It's bad enough vaccinations kill children and babies. We have to Pay to maim and kill our pets too, with the vaccines and the darn crumby commerical pet foods! Best of luck to your mom's poodle. They too are a one-size-fits-all rabies vaccine dosing too. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.dogs4dogs.com/truth4dogs.html

[Guest guest]

Hullo Matt. Try the titer test route and try to avoid it, and then try for the additional three year waive paperwork, It's bad enough vaccinations kill children and babies. We have to Pay to maim and kill our pets too, with the vaccines and the darn crumby commerical pet foods! Best of luck to your mom's poodle. They too are a one-size-fits-all rabies vaccine dosing too. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.dogs4dogs.com/truth4dogs.html

[Guest guest]

Hullo Matt. Try the titer test route and try to avoid it, and then try for the additional three year waive paperwork, It's bad enough vaccinations kill children and babies. We have to Pay to maim and kill our pets too, with the vaccines and the darn crumby commerical pet foods! Best of luck to your mom's poodle. They too are a one-size-fits-all rabies vaccine dosing too. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.dogs4dogs.com/truth4dogs.html

[Guest guest]

Hullo Matt. Try the titer test route and try to avoid it, and then try for the additional three year waive paperwork, It's bad enough vaccinations kill children and babies. We have to Pay to maim and kill our pets too, with the vaccines and the darn crumby commerical pet foods! Best of luck to your mom's poodle. They too are a one-size-fits-all rabies vaccine dosing too. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.dogs4dogs.com/truth4dogs.html

[Guest guest]

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1@..." Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Re: Rabies shots for dogs Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________Click for FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates approvals nationwide

[Guest guest]

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1@..." Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Re: Rabies shots for dogs Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________Click for FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates approvals nationwide

[Guest guest]

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1@..." Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Re: Rabies shots for dogs Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________Click for FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates approvals nationwide

[Guest guest]

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1@..." Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Re: Rabies shots for dogs Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________Click for FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates approvals nationwide

[Guest guest]

Rabies vax is the only one we give our dog. We live in the area where up to 70% of all raccoons and skunks are rabid. Our dog runs free in our fenced back yard when he needs to go out, w/o supervision. I actually have a friend who had to put their dog down because it was found in the company of a rabid skunk in their back yard, and the dog didn't have the rabies vax. They had no idea if the skunk actually bit the dog, but they had to put the dog down anyway as there was no way of knowing for sure. You may not even know when a dog gets bitten by some rabid thing outside. So you may end up having a rabid dog and not knowing it. The problem with this is that rabies is actually very contagious to humans, and it is ALWAYS lethal. IMO, I'd rather vax my dog at a risk of harming him than risk accidently killing my kids. It's only my opinion though as it pertains to our specific situation, so most people on here may have a different take on this.

Good luck figuring it out either way. _____________________________________________"Prepare your proof before you argue" - Jewish Proverb

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:45 PM, <oftheborg@...> wrote:

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: " luvusam1@... " Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT

<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Re: Rabies shots for dogs

Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, " over vaccinating " my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.

I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this.

" If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny. "

- Jefferson

[Guest guest]

Some interesting counter THUNK on rabies. Some off topic gets thrown in there but you can zone in on the more rabies topics easily enough. Food for thought. I still dont know WHY a pet was put down because it was thought it MIGHT have been bitten. and even by a rabit animal. It should have been watched and tested, not killed. Same thinking that is for a chicken who has avian flu titers, or a cow with mad cow. The whole herd is automatically assumed then to have it, so mass slaughters insue. If one mosquito may have West Nile, they try to kill off as many mosquitos just for the hell of it. How is that good for the herd, when one kills off all the herd? HMMM. And will the day come when some people are thought of as infected with something deadly, so they have to kill the rest of US? Geez. Strange mentalities. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2008/01/rabies.php

[Guest guest]

We don't have a yard here, so she gets walked regularly and runs around at the dog parks... But coming in contact with other animals is something we'd notice. 'If' I considered the vaccine even remotely effective, I might be particularly worried about a rabid chipmunk stealth infecting her when we turn our back for a second or two. ~MattSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "Alan Foossolvesunified.com" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:17:56 -0800 (PST)<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Rabies shots for dogs Sorry to be overly lengthy on this matter, but I can't follow the logic on this dog killing...Someone help me here. This is a subject that interests me a LOT. I had it instilled, like most of us, that vaccinations worked... then I risked my life in the vietnam era to get a good education, eight years of biology/chemistry/math ending with an MS in Soils and my brain immersed in statistical design... I ran out of BI Bill just short of a PhD, but finished my thesis as well as a very well done theorem of statistical design. then, I nearly died in 1981 in the midst of a nasty list of felonies, embezzlement, etc, all involving issues over what had made me sick and how... I never recovered my career, barely recovered my health, and by 2005 finally realized that almost every member of the family had been horribly damaged, both by vaccinations and dental "amalgams." I would KNOW such things for certain with my background, and, in fact, only found out then because of the increasingly obvious pattern of lying from the medical people and eventually undeniable connection between the illnesses and the source. SOOO, only recently, after adequate study, I concluded that there really never has been an effective vaccine, EVER, for anything, it truly all amounts to wishful thinking and profits.... SO, why, with the very solid background in statistics that is meant to establish such things with measurable degrees of certainty, is there NO record of any kind demonstrating such a connection? I'm sorry, but in the absence of real, and I mean truly acceptable research results, is there any such confidence in this rabies vaccine? Your thinking must be backwards. Look at it this way, you say that there was NO way to know that the dog may have been bitten... So, if the dog had been vaccinated and bitten, then he was safe and should live? But then if the vaccinations don't work, then why would you conclude that the dog should live? I really do not think any of this makes sense. The correct procedure in this case would have been to quarantine and monitor the dog until it was clear that the incubation period for the disease had been passed. There is NO reason whatsoever to use trust in the vaccination to justify killing the dog as opposed to simply killing the dog. Or maybe I'm wrong - you ARE then saying, that 1) since there is no way to know whether the dog was bitten or not, it must be killed, and 2) even though there is no reliable evidence that the vaccine is effective, it is okay to let the dog live 3) then, since the vaccine is not likely effective perhaps it would demonstrate a lot more genuine concern for your child, if you were simply not to have a dog? Beyond this, it is standard scientific procedure to assume initially that the vaccine is NOT effective (the NULL hypothesis). Would it be too much to demand of the medical industry that a truly satisfactory and unbiased clinical trial then demonstrate in convincing mathematical probabilities, that this vaccine is effective, as opposed to nothing but anecdotal assertions on the part of experts who pay their country clubs dues from profits obtained under those assertions? I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1juno (DOT) com" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Rabies shots for dogsOh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson

[Guest guest]

We don't have a yard here, so she gets walked regularly and runs around at the dog parks... But coming in contact with other animals is something we'd notice. 'If' I considered the vaccine even remotely effective, I might be particularly worried about a rabid chipmunk stealth infecting her when we turn our back for a second or two. ~MattSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "Alan Foossolvesunified.com" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:17:56 -0800 (PST)<no-forced-vaccination >Subject: Rabies shots for dogs Sorry to be overly lengthy on this matter, but I can't follow the logic on this dog killing...Someone help me here. This is a subject that interests me a LOT. I had it instilled, like most of us, that vaccinations worked... then I risked my life in the vietnam era to get a good education, eight years of biology/chemistry/math ending with an MS in Soils and my brain immersed in statistical design... I ran out of BI Bill just short of a PhD, but finished my thesis as well as a very well done theorem of statistical design. then, I nearly died in 1981 in the midst of a nasty list of felonies, embezzlement, etc, all involving issues over what had made me sick and how... I never recovered my career, barely recovered my health, and by 2005 finally realized that almost every member of the family had been horribly damaged, both by vaccinations and dental "amalgams." I would KNOW such things for certain with my background, and, in fact, only found out then because of the increasingly obvious pattern of lying from the medical people and eventually undeniable connection between the illnesses and the source. SOOO, only recently, after adequate study, I concluded that there really never has been an effective vaccine, EVER, for anything, it truly all amounts to wishful thinking and profits.... SO, why, with the very solid background in statistics that is meant to establish such things with measurable degrees of certainty, is there NO record of any kind demonstrating such a connection? I'm sorry, but in the absence of real, and I mean truly acceptable research results, is there any such confidence in this rabies vaccine? Your thinking must be backwards. Look at it this way, you say that there was NO way to know that the dog may have been bitten... So, if the dog had been vaccinated and bitten, then he was safe and should live? But then if the vaccinations don't work, then why would you conclude that the dog should live? I really do not think any of this makes sense. The correct procedure in this case would have been to quarantine and monitor the dog until it was clear that the incubation period for the disease had been passed. There is NO reason whatsoever to use trust in the vaccination to justify killing the dog as opposed to simply killing the dog. Or maybe I'm wrong - you ARE then saying, that 1) since there is no way to know whether the dog was bitten or not, it must be killed, and 2) even though there is no reliable evidence that the vaccine is effective, it is okay to let the dog live 3) then, since the vaccine is not likely effective perhaps it would demonstrate a lot more genuine concern for your child, if you were simply not to have a dog? Beyond this, it is standard scientific procedure to assume initially that the vaccine is NOT effective (the NULL hypothesis). Would it be too much to demand of the medical industry that a truly satisfactory and unbiased clinical trial then demonstrate in convincing mathematical probabilities, that this vaccine is effective, as opposed to nothing but anecdotal assertions on the part of experts who pay their country clubs dues from profits obtained under those assertions? I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "luvusam1juno (DOT) com" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Rabies shots for dogsOh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson

[Guest guest]

Alan, I fully concur with your elaborations. There is absolutely no need to kill an animal on the mere presumption that it might have been bitten by another allegedly rabid animal. The least that could and should have been done is to quarantine the family pet for three weeks before senselessly killing it. The statement that the bite from a rabid animal always has a fatal outcome in humans is also a myth.

http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm

Ingrid

Sorry to be overly lengthy on this matter, but I can't follow the logic on this dog killing...Someone help me here. This is a subject that interests me a LOT. I had it instilled, like most of us, that vaccinations worked... then I risked my life in the vietnam era to get a good education, eight years of biology/chemistry/math ending with an MS in Soils and my brain immersed in statistical design... I ran out of BI Bill just short of a PhD, but finished my thesis as well as a very well done theorem of statistical design. then, I nearly died in 1981 in the midst of a nasty list of felonies, embezzlement, etc, all involving issues over what had made me sick and how... I never recovered my career, barely recovered my health, and by 2005 finally realized that almost every member of the family had been horribly damaged, both by vaccinations and dental "amalgams."

I would KNOW such things for certain with my background, and, in fact, only found out then because of the increasingly obvious pattern of lying from the medical people and eventually undeniable connection between the illnesses and the source. SOOO, only recently, after adequate study, I concluded that there really never has been an effective vaccine, EVER, for anything, it truly all amounts to wishful thinking and profits.... SO, why, with the very solid background in statistics that is meant to establish such things with measurable degrees of certainty, is there NO record of any kind demonstrating such a connection?

I'm sorry, but in the absence of real, and I mean truly acceptable research results, is there any such confidence in this rabies vaccine? Your thinking must be backwards. Look at it this way, you say that there was NO way to know that the dog may have been bitten... So, if the dog had been vaccinated and bitten, then he was safe and should live? But then if the vaccinations don't work, then why would you conclude that the dog should live? I really do not think any of this makes sense. The correct procedure in this case would have been to quarantine and monitor the dog until it was clear that the incubation period for the disease had been passed. There is NO reason whatsoever to use trust in the vaccination to justify killing the dog as opposed to simply killing the dog. Or maybe I'm wrong - you ARE then saying, that

1) since there is no way to know whether the dog was bitten or not, it must be killed, and

2) even though there is no reliable evidence that the vaccine is effective, it is okay to let the dog live

3) then, since the vaccine is not likely effective perhaps it would demonstrate a lot more genuine concern for your child, if you were simply not to have a dog?

Beyond this, it is standard scientific procedure to assume initially that the vaccine is NOT effective (the NULL hypothesis). Would it be too much to demand of the medical industry that a truly satisfactory and unbiased clinical trial then demonstrate in convincing mathematical probabilities, that this vaccine is effective, as opposed to nothing but anecdotal assertions on the part of experts who pay their country clubs dues from profits obtained under those assertions?

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From: "luvusam1juno (DOT) com" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Rabies shots for dogs

Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.

I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this.

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson

[Guest guest]

Alan, I fully concur with your elaborations. There is absolutely no need to kill an animal on the mere presumption that it might have been bitten by another allegedly rabid animal. The least that could and should have been done is to quarantine the family pet for three weeks before senselessly killing it. The statement that the bite from a rabid animal always has a fatal outcome in humans is also a myth.

http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm

Ingrid

Sorry to be overly lengthy on this matter, but I can't follow the logic on this dog killing...Someone help me here. This is a subject that interests me a LOT. I had it instilled, like most of us, that vaccinations worked... then I risked my life in the vietnam era to get a good education, eight years of biology/chemistry/math ending with an MS in Soils and my brain immersed in statistical design... I ran out of BI Bill just short of a PhD, but finished my thesis as well as a very well done theorem of statistical design. then, I nearly died in 1981 in the midst of a nasty list of felonies, embezzlement, etc, all involving issues over what had made me sick and how... I never recovered my career, barely recovered my health, and by 2005 finally realized that almost every member of the family had been horribly damaged, both by vaccinations and dental "amalgams."

I would KNOW such things for certain with my background, and, in fact, only found out then because of the increasingly obvious pattern of lying from the medical people and eventually undeniable connection between the illnesses and the source. SOOO, only recently, after adequate study, I concluded that there really never has been an effective vaccine, EVER, for anything, it truly all amounts to wishful thinking and profits.... SO, why, with the very solid background in statistics that is meant to establish such things with measurable degrees of certainty, is there NO record of any kind demonstrating such a connection?

I'm sorry, but in the absence of real, and I mean truly acceptable research results, is there any such confidence in this rabies vaccine? Your thinking must be backwards. Look at it this way, you say that there was NO way to know that the dog may have been bitten... So, if the dog had been vaccinated and bitten, then he was safe and should live? But then if the vaccinations don't work, then why would you conclude that the dog should live? I really do not think any of this makes sense. The correct procedure in this case would have been to quarantine and monitor the dog until it was clear that the incubation period for the disease had been passed. There is NO reason whatsoever to use trust in the vaccination to justify killing the dog as opposed to simply killing the dog. Or maybe I'm wrong - you ARE then saying, that

1) since there is no way to know whether the dog was bitten or not, it must be killed, and

2) even though there is no reliable evidence that the vaccine is effective, it is okay to let the dog live

3) then, since the vaccine is not likely effective perhaps it would demonstrate a lot more genuine concern for your child, if you were simply not to have a dog?

Beyond this, it is standard scientific procedure to assume initially that the vaccine is NOT effective (the NULL hypothesis). Would it be too much to demand of the medical industry that a truly satisfactory and unbiased clinical trial then demonstrate in convincing mathematical probabilities, that this vaccine is effective, as opposed to nothing but anecdotal assertions on the part of experts who pay their country clubs dues from profits obtained under those assertions?

I know that just recently they passed a medical exemption law for rabies shots. But I'm not truly sure how to utilize that. I guess I'll have to help them find a real vet that understands what vaccines really are.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From: "luvusam1juno (DOT) com" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:08:41 GMT<no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Rabies shots for dogs

Oh Matt. This is a delimma that I had. Not, um, "over vaccinating" my dogs. One of which is at least 10 yo which should automatically exempt her from anymore rabies or any other shots (rabies only one by law needed supposedly) because of her age.

I talked with my allopathic vet, not happy with my questions about the shots. I sought alternative sources if you will. I found a great holistic vet within an hour of me that felt the same way I did. She said they took a vow to do no harm and she wouldn't. Although, I can't tell you directly how we handled the situation (due to legalities), I can tell you that she made all of my dogs legal, period. I have paperwork and tags. Some states will allow medical exemptions, some places will allow medical exemptions. Most of the time, they will not. They are so driven by what the mainstream medicine tells them, they really don't know the truth. Which is the only shot legally necessary is rabies. We do pet therapy and the place where we do it wanted all the shot records, I quickly informed her that the only one by law is rabies. She had no clue. Anyway, I with you luck. It took me a long time to find someone who would work with me on this.

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson