Re: Foreign travel

April 27, 2001

At 07:08 AM 04/27/2001 EDT, you wrote:

>I have not been able to find a book or a site that addresses to my

>satisfaction the issue regarding foreign travel. I am not worried about

MMR.

>I am a bit worried about diptheria and polio because I have been taught

those

>can be trransmitted in the water and I worry that the water supply, where I

>might be going ,might not be so great. And then of course, always the

tetanus

>concern. I would love to travel --it is a dream of mine with my kids -

but i

>worry --almost enough to just never go

>

You always drink bottled water

You have an immune system - just because it might be there, doesn't mean

you get sick and doesn't mean its serious and doesn't mean you die.

I travel all over the world, luckily, and don't worry.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

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April 27, 2001

There are portable water filters...i don't know how effective they would be

screening these out but this could be researched...

I am not a doctor,

nor do I portray one on t.v.!

(but my husband Mike is!)

Laurie> Ohio

boldml@...

Mother to 5...

2 c-secs

3 VBACS!!!

including waterbirth

I I am a bit worried about diptheria and polio because I have been taught

those

can be trransmitted in the water and I worry that the water supply, where I

might be going ,might not be so great. And then of course, always the

tetanus

concern. I would love to travel --it is a dream of mine with my kids - but

i

worry --almost enough to just never go

April 27, 2001

Hi there, this is a post copied (with her permission) from TRUTH over at

BabyCenter. I thought you might get some reassurance from her experiences.

Everybody, it is also interesting reading!

BEGIN QUOTE

You are assuming that if you get your child vaccinated, your child won't get

the disease. And that by vaccinating your child, you could safely travel

through India without a worry. Sorry. It doesn't quite work like that.

Your child is far more at risk from non-immunable problems in India, than

anything we have a vaccine for...and she is more likely to get them, if just

prior to travelling you have vaccinated her, because her immune system (and I

don't care what any doctors say about this, because I know - I see it all the

time - ad nauseum) will be suppressed, and she will be more open to

infections.

I have gotten sick of the number of times that unvaccinated people come back

from trips through the worst of Asian places with stories - often backed up

by the vaccinated ones - of how they hooped around having a great time,

enjoying themselves, while the vaccinated saw far more of the latrine in the

hotel...At first I thought it a joke. Now it is routine. But frankly,

anyone who takes a child to India is asking for big trouble any which way.

Kids are no respectors of hygiene or logical cooperation with what is

required to adjust to the completely foreign local bacterial and viral flora

in any Asian or African country.Tell me, were you to go to Africa - just how

would you explain to your water-loving 2-year old that he really doesn't want

Bilharzia (sp?). I know a lot of people who in order to stop the constant

tantrums " but I want to paddle " have given in, and bitterly regretted it.

Firstly remember this. Most of the polio you saw in India was needless

polio, caused by needless injections, given by unscrupulous doctors for

financial gain. Including the vaccination programme and their lovely little

indisposable disposable needles...When you see a person with polio lameness

your compassion comes to the surface, then you think because there is a

vaccine that won't happen to my child. You are assuming that if you don't

vaccinate polio will maim that to your child. In fact, even in the worst

polio outbreaks the highest rate of attack was 1 in 100. Here it was 1 in

2,000. it is one of the least infectious of all infectious diseases, but is

majored on, because of 100 people who actually catch polio, 20 will have

serious flu-like symptoms, ten will get temporary paralysis which can resolve

as soon as 2 days and ONE person will have residual polio. But that person

makes great television. Great publicity. Because the results will scare

anyone with half a streak of independance. I think you have a huge amount of

reading to do. When I see a child like that I get doubly angry. Because I

know that before UNICEF and WHO etc came along with syringes and a whole lot

of other medical stuff which is totally unnecessary, India had been

comparatively polio free, as had the rest of the " third " world countries,

then landed up, as Dr Wyatt said with 200,000 cases per year. Caused by

medical interference. The virus was no more prevalent than before, but the

susceptibility to it had been notched up a ton-fold.Secondly, remember this.

That the western experts said that polio became more common in USA etc

because of good sanitation, clean water etc. Oh really? Then if dirty

surroundings, lack of sanitation and lousy water kept everyone immune and

without clinical polio, tell that to the Indian people!!! For most of them,

the only things that have changed in their lives are the following: 1)

Needles, needles,needles 2) Monsanto - bless their little soulless hearts

have virtually wiped out all the thousands of indigenous strains of rice

(which were disease resistent and had mineral and nutrients which varied, and

most suited the local area), and most of the rice now grown in India is about

10 strains of a modified GM high production rice, which leaches the soil of

goodness, requires massive fertilizer and spraying campaigns to keep growing,

and has bankrupted huge sections of the people who used to practice

subsistence farm with a bit on the side. And now feed themselves with great

difficulty. The quality of the food which is available to Indians is going

down, down, and down. 3) Nestle --- bless their little soulless hearts,

has made bottle feeding the " in " thing. It is the right and proper way - to

use the bottle and rubber teat. It is bad enough that it is custom in India

to feed babies for the first three days on sugar water, but now.... and if

you can't afford formula - then watered down buffalo milk looks pretty much

the same, and creates the right impression. And kills kids by the thousands.

What has not changed for the majority of India is sanitation, living

conditions and water. These for most people are as bad as they ever were.

And polio became rampant??? Because of western medicine. Polio in India is

essentially " iatrogenic " - caused by doctors. Not by the " Improvements " we

are told gave it to us. Which IMO is hot-air...You saw the tourist India

which is bad enough, though it has better sanitation than the rest. You saw

the places where a lot of the lame people (including the ones deliberately

lamed - don't forget those) are sent to the cities to professionally beg, to

keep their country families afloat. You know, those people who have been

financially pillaged by the GM companies, and who are now displaced by

irrigation projects that have salinated the land, and the huge dam project

the Indian Government is stupidly going ahead with. Want to know more? Did

you know that for years, Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates have run a huge

trade in child slaves - or perhaps more correctly put, free sex..... It was

all laid out nicely in a series of books written by a Saudi Princess - can't

remember her pseudomane, but the first book was calle " Princess " I think.

Compulsory reading for those brushing up on the untold reality of the world

that Ted and Bill Gates doen't edify you about. Try hitting up a

site called www.christian-aid.org.uk. There is (well, was - I haven't

checked it since April last year) a report called " Selling suicide " about

Monsanto and co, and the problems which Christian missions face, and to which

they see no end... which will cheer you up no end. And if you really want to

know what the " real " Indian people face every day, read Arundhati Roy's book

called " The Cost of Living " . Then you will question the whole basis of your

thinking about India, America and this world. I also have in front of me two

reports which were writing by Dr Obomsawin, when he worked for the

Canadian International Development Agency. In 1991, he was sent by the

Canadian Government to do an Audit on the UNICEF's Integrated Services for

Children in Northeast Thailand. His report showed that Monsanto and P's-I-C

were not only decimating the agriculture of the country, but were destroying

and polluting the wildlife, and hundreds of Thai people died every year from

pesticide poisoning. His assessment of the immunisation programme was

equally as bleak. In fact, his assessment of what was going on by AID

agencies in Thailand was bordering on criminal. Washington DC (no less!!!!)

demanded that the report be scrapped and Dr Obomsawin be fired. His boss

refused. In the end, everyone's heads rolled, (we can't have tripe like that

getting into the public's hands....) I managed to acquire the two copies

prior to the heads rolling, and before they (I assume) assigned them into the

little round bin where inconvenient assessments are placed.He tells me that

wherever there is foreign aid - be it Thailand, ines (anyone see that

ghastly documentary featuring the Manilla CAtholic sisters who very clearly

clarified exactly what ines' problems were i.e. both food and

pharmaceutical conglomerates... if you want me to detail how and why

sometime, I will)- everywhere, it is destroying the people, their way of life

and their health, and throwing them off land which was hereditary and

title-less for centuries. Because it is based on the Western technocentric

philosophy. Do a search on Professor Debebar Banerji from India, and see

what he has to say about foreign aid and technocentricity...Then you ask the

board these questions:>I could not take that chance with my child. I mean, >

polio and other diseases are alive and well there. >How would you protect

them? Every time you go to India you are taking a huge chance with your

child, vaccinated or not. Especially if you are also doing an anti-malarial

protocol - which are so dangerous for children. REgarding the immunable

diseases? How would I protect them? Firstly. NO bare feet. SEcondly daily

vitamin and mineral supplements, especially Vitamin C. Thirdly, a daily

small ball made of a mixture of raw garlic and ground red chilli. (Hah! -

show me a toddler who will co-operate with that!) If not straight, in a

capsule. This mix is the best I know for preventing Delhi Belly - even in

Bali. I have friends who go there every year for business, and who were told

this by a local, and have never had any trouble ever since. Fifth - food.

Indian food is heavily spiced for a good reason. Cinnamon and chilli are

bacterial rocket fuel - proven by medical science - I have the articles....

Anyone who travels through india and scorns their way of cooking is asking

for trouble. They don't cook that way for fun - they cook that way because

in their situation it is as good a protection as they are ever likely to

find....so your children better get used to eating rocket fuel.>you expose

them and they build up an immunity to it, >or do you just take a chance that

they may get it and >die or be crippled? I would expose them and let them

build up immunity to it, but would pay serious attention to diet, supplement,

probiotics etc. There is a chance they might get crippled and die even if

they are vaccinated, but chances are that will not be from an immunable

disease--->Is there a way to build up immunity without having them die of

deadly diseases? (I'm ignorant of all the pros and cons-- this topic is very

new to me)Yes there is. Our children have had whooping cough, measles twice,

rubella (oldest, twice) mumps and chickenpox. I know what I am doing, and

they have never had antibiotics for any of these things, or secondary

bacterial infections associated with viruses.But the really important

statement you made was about the topic being new to you. I can tell you why

I won't vaccinate. I can show you why. I can present you with data why.

But if I ask you why you do vaccinate, you cannot do the same, because you

are operating from a belief. From listening to other people's thoughts and

opinions. From looking at polio (which was doctor induced) and not realising

that much if not most of the illness in India is totally unnecessary. I am

very heartened when I read books about people who had polio. I have done a

huge amount of research on it, and know the reasons why so many in the

developed world got polio. And knowing those things, whenever I read another

story, where the person discusses the events that led up to the attack, there

it is in black and white. Even though they never realised it, and probably

still don't - there were events in their lives which precipitated that

episode. Let me give you an example from Butterworth's book, which is

a collection of stories from people. Her own is very instructive. She is

very pro-vaccine, and constantly berates people who says diet can prevent

polio. She talks about the organic vegetables they ate -(but forgets about

the white sugar, and how one helping of sugar cripples the cellular immunity

for three hours) But here story is even more interesting. She was a

tom-boy. You know - those kids who get up in 10th gear, race around and

drive you totally insane. The spinning tops of the world. Our eldest is one

of those. Some people may label them hyperactive, but I don't think they all

are. Some are just wired that way. But had another attribute. She

riled people up, including her own family, and if there was a scrap, she was

in to it. When polio was shooting through her family, it started with

everyone getting a mild cold which sort of went away. The kids all went back

to school. But being , picked a fight with one of the boys, who

having had enough, grabbed her by the hands, swung her around in circles, and

let her go. She landed hands and knees on gravel. Nice. being

picked herself up, chin in the air, and stalked off. Then came the

diarrhoea. Everyone got it. She and her sister, who slept in the same room

compared symtoms, and compared who had the worst leg pains. At first her

sisters were worse, but they cleared up. So did everyone else in her family.

Just got immunity. But got worse, and worse. Why? Because firstly

there is a genetic " preference " for polio to hit spinning tops. A-type

personalities who never know when to stop or slow down are the prime targets.

In her book, has the story of Sister Kenny's cousin who lives here,

and he made a comment along these lines....Polio never ever hit the sickly

kids. It was always the busy kids, the go-getters - the light and souls of

the party who got polio.'s brothers and sisters were normal sedate kids.

had to tame everything and everyone in sight with a vengeance. And

she did eat junk food. And we know from medical history that any trauma, be

it a needle, or an accident - even dental surgery - ensured that the

paralysis always started in the area of trauma first. And so it was with

.Her book is amazing. Worth reading. If only seeing how people's lives

put them in that situation. But also in terms that it was as well that polio

never took the sickly ones. Because if you survived polio, you needed to be

a go-getter to have the determination to get up and live life afterwards.No

matter what personality we are, we are all flawed personalities in one way or

another. I am a go-getter, and know the depths of my weaknesses. And

knowing your weaknesses is part of finding your strengths.And so it is with

my children. I understand each of our son's immune system - they both

require different illness management. I try to work with their differences

and weaknesses, because I don't ever want to happen to them what happened to

me. My parents swore by antibiotics, and used them as recommended, which

nearly landed me pushing up daisies.Another thing. Thirteen years ago both

my husband and I decided to research our medical records. Here is what we

discovered. That we had both diseases we had been vaccinated against - and

they never told us at the time. For me, it was rubella. I had lovely

documented immunity 6 months prior to pregnancy, and got rubella in the 8th

week of pregnancy. (Maybe that's why my oldest is a spinning top!) My husband

received a full series of SALK vaccine, and the SABIN orals, and afterwards

had a form of subclinical excrutiating bulbar polio for a year.We were both

fobbed off with lies, and never knew until way after we had decided not to

vaccinate our children. We investigated our own files after having woken up

to the lies we were told at our eldest son's birth. And we wondered what

else our files might show up. I recommend it to anyone as a wake-up call.

You would be amazed at what is written in files about people. And since my

job is research in that area, I've had a mountain of experience....What you

need to do is stand back, and recognise that a position of bandwaggoning

(going with the flow) is not informed choice. It is peer pressure. No

parent should ever decide on that basis. You need to read the " facts " that

the pro side present - the " facts " that the anti side present, then decide

what your priorities are as a parent, and what your responsibilities are, or

whether you are just going to let the state decide to vaccinate, medicate,

educate and consequently bring up your children they way they want them. And

with the columbines on everyone's mind is that such a hot thing? We are not

parents to let the state tell us what to do. Unless you are saying that

communism is a good thing.You have to chose, realising that if you vaccinate,

your child could die from the vaccine, from a car, from anything - anyway.And

if you don't vaccinate, your child may catch that disease and die. But what

are the chances of a fit healthy child, whose parents take responsibility for

all aspects of their babyhood and toddlerhood doing that? Ask the others on

this board who don't vaccinate, and they will tell you, like I can, that we

have never heard of a child, not vaccinated through parental choice, dying of

any immunable disease.And we can also say with certainty, that just because

you are vaccinated, doesn't me you won't get " it " . END QUOTE

January 12, 2011

last year went to a few countries in the middle

east:Turkey,Syria,Lebanon,Jordan and Egypt(this one a couple years ago) and I

had my meds with me all the time in my carry on bag

and not even one question been asked about my meds.

I hope that helped

> From: presh911 <dpal911@...>

> Subject: Foreign Travel

>

> Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 1:05 PM

> I am thinking of doing an Egypt tour

> however I heard that if HIV mess are found at

> customs/immigration that I could be denied entry. Can

> anyone confirm this or is there a web site for poz folks

> with current info to check for travel to foreign countries:

> what to expect and general cautions?

>

> ------------------------------------

>

January 12, 2011

Hi all, There’s a good web site at http://plwha.org/ A quick look indicated no problems for short stays. Bob Munk From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of presh911Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:06 PM Subject: Foreign Travel I am thinking of doing an Egypt tour however I heard that if HIV mess are found at customs/immigration that I could be denied entry. Can anyone confirm this or is there a web site for poz folks with current info to check for travel to foreign countries: what to expect and general cautions?

March 10, 2011

The WHO's International Health Regulations (IHR) determine vaccine requirements

for international travel. They require yellow fever vaccines for people

traveling in and out of some countries in sub-Saharan Africa and tropical S.

America, and the only exemption is medical. So, if you're going to one of those

countries and don't have a doctor's support, then it would not be possible,

under the IHR's, to avoid vaccination. Whether or not there's some informal way

to avoid vaccines in this situation may be another matter, but the starting

place for the specific countries involved is either vaccinate or medical

exemption. The CDC has a website that lists the specific countries and

requirements here:

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2010/chapter-2/yellow-fever.aspx.

They note that requirements can change, so you should check with the specific

country to see if they require it presently.

Alan , JD

www.vaccinerights.com

www.pandemicresponseproject.com

>

> I want to go to South America. Is there any way to go and get back into the US

without taking vaccines?

> Ann

>

March 10, 2011

Thanks Alan. That link didn't work; page not found - but my main concern was

getting back into the United States. I was wondering if there was a way to get

back without being vaccinated like maybe arranging an itinerary just walking

across the bridge or something. Unless you have to be vaccinated to

enter.Mexico. I want to go., but I have had cancer twice and don't want any

more. I do not have records of the many many vaccinations I have.had even

rabies and I sure don't want.any more. I took all the tropical vaccines in 1955

because. Rice University (then Rice Institute of Technology) required them

I have had several smallpox vaccinations and countless tetanus vaccinations. But

since I have learned the truth I am calling a halt to this

Thanks for youlr help.

Ann

On Thu Mar 10th, 2011 7:18 AM MST lawpapa23 wrote:

>The WHO's International Health Regulations (IHR) determine vaccine requirements