Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Below is a link with information on a similar comparison of vaccinated and un-vaccinated children with respect to Autism rates. Why Don't the Amish Have Autistic Children? http://www.mercola.com/2005/may/4/amish_autism.htm Alobar On 11/19/06, Marjorie Tietjen <daystar1952@...> wrote: > I think the following would be correct. Hypothetically those who get vaccinated would have immunity from the diseases they were vaccinated against....so if one decides to not be vaccinated in a " free country " then they would not be endangering those who did get vaccinated. Then we would have a true population study and be able to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 The vaccines are, of course, to keep the diseases from coming back! :-) (if they had been the reason they disappeared in the first place, this might have made sense...) vaccines If all the vaccines have done away with diseases how come we need vaccines any more? Seems to me if they were so effective, and they have been given for years, there would not be a need for them, as all diseases would be gone now. Tells me that vaccines are just a hoax.We had better be voting for someone who has our interest in mind, ratherthan their own and big drug companies. Only one candidate our there that even comes close. Ron .Marilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 The vaccines are, of course, to keep the diseases from coming back! :-) (if they had been the reason they disappeared in the first place, this might have made sense...) vaccines If all the vaccines have done away with diseases how come we need vaccines any more? Seems to me if they were so effective, and they have been given for years, there would not be a need for them, as all diseases would be gone now. Tells me that vaccines are just a hoax.We had better be voting for someone who has our interest in mind, ratherthan their own and big drug companies. Only one candidate our there that even comes close. Ron .Marilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If I were to have more children, which I'm not planning to....I would probably do some vaccinations...but I would definitely wait. Probably till 18 mos of age or so. Connor is my youngest child and only son, and he is still non-verbal. We use pictures, or he pulls us to what he wants. What beats me is how this non-verbal child can be so blasted noisy Trish in IL bluemoon_307 wrote: I know there is alot of controversy about to vaccine or not to. I have followed some of McCarthy apperances on tv and her most recent was about the resignition of the director of the CDC and that she believes that we are vaccinating our kids to soon. She was not opposed to the whole vaccination, she feels that there is hard evidence to support waiting to vaccinate. I was wondering on anyones thoughts to this. She talked about a safer vaccine schedule, has anyone done this. Just trying to get some feedback. I have a son who has autism, he is now 6 years old. He is making great progress but still in his autism world. I just recently had my third child who is now 2 months. I am hesitant to vaccinate him so early, if there is more and more evidence support the link between autism and vaccines. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Steph, Very interesting.. may I forward this on to my healthy eating group, I know some will be interested in this interview. I can’t believe there are so many containments in the vaccines itself. I never thought of that, just thought it was the mercury and crap we had to worry about. hugs Micki Health Eating and Living Together he2gether_/ My brother's online store check it out http://mcgregorgifts.ecrater.com/ From: SSRI medications [mailto:SSRI medications ] On Behalf Of alfred8991 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 10:41 AM SSRI medications Subject: Vaccines Seems like a flawed concept no matter how you look at it Micki... This whistleblower explains best. Steph http://drbenkim.com/articles-vaccine-risks.htm Home » Common Health Concerns » Health Warnings Jon Rappoport Interviews a Retired Vaccine Researcher By Dr. Ben Kim on May 24, 2006 * Health Warnings * Children's Health Issues * Healthy Pregnancy Preface: One of our newsletter subscribers sent me the following interview that a journalist named Jon Rappoport did with a retired vaccine researcher a few years ago. Many thanks to Jon for giving us permission to share this interview with our subscribers. - Ben Kim *** Q: You were once certain that vaccines were the hallmark of good medicine. A: Yes I was. I helped develop a few vaccines. I won't say which ones. Q: Why not? A: I want to preserve my privacy. Q: So you think you could have problems if you came out into the open? A: I believe I could lose my pension. Q: On what grounds? A: The grounds don't matter. These people have ways of causing you problems, when you were once part of the Club. I know one or two people who were put under surveillance, who were harassed. Q: Harassed by whom? A: The FBI. Q: Really? A: Sure. The FBI used other pretexts. And the IRS can come calling too. Q: So much for free speech. A: I was " part of the inner circle. " If now I began to name names and make specific accusations against researchers, I could be in a world of trouble. Q: What is at the bottom of these efforts at harassment? A: Vaccines are the last defense of modern medicine. Vaccines are the ultimate justification for the overall " brilliance " of modern medicine. Q: Do you believe that people should be allowed to choose whether they should get vaccines? A: On a political level, yes. On a scientific level, people need information, so that they can choose well. It's one thing to say choice is good. But if the atmosphere is full of lies, how can you choose? Also, if the FDA were run by honorable people, these vaccines would not be granted licenses. They would be investigated to within an inch of their lives. Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall decline of illnesses was not due to vaccines. A: I know. For a long time, I ignored their work. Q: Why? A: Because I was afraid of what I would find out. I was in the business of developing vaccines. My livelihood depended on continuing that work. Q: And then? A: I did my own investigation. Q: What conclusions did you come to? A: The decline of disease is due to improved living conditions. Q: What conditions? A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher food. A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are healthy, you don't contract the diseases as easily. Q: What did you feel when you completed your own investigation? A: Despair. I realized I was working a sector based on a collection of lies. Q: Are some vaccines more dangerous than others? A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But some lots of a vaccine are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine. As far as I'm concerned, all vaccines are dangerous. Q: Why? A: Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process that tends to compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease they are supposed to prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones they are supposed to prevent. Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that vaccines have been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases? A: Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a vaccine suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone assumes that the vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine can harm the immune system itself. And if it causes other diseases -- say, meningitis -- that fact is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine can do that. The connection is overlooked. Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox in England. A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get another picture. Q: Which is? A: There were cities in England where people who were not vaccinated did not get smallpox. There were places where people who were vaccinated experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox was already on the decline before the vaccine was introduced. Q: So you're saying that we have been treated to a false history. A: Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a history that has been cooked up to convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective. Q: Now, you worked in labs. Where purity was an issue. A: The public believes that these labs, these manufacturing facilities are the cleanest places in the world. That is not true. Contamination occurs all the time. You get all sorts of debris introduced into vaccines. Q: For example, the SV40 monkey virus slips into the polio vaccine. A: Well yes, that happened. But that's not what I mean. The SV40 got into the polio vaccine because the vaccine was made by using monkey kidneys. But I'm talking about something else. The actual lab conditions. The mistakes. The careless errors. SV40, which was later found in cancer tumors -- that was what I would call a structural problem. It was an accepted part of the manufacturing process. If you use monkey kidneys, you open the door to germs which you don't know are in those kidneys. Q: Okay, but let's ignore that distinction between different types of contaminants for a moment. What contaminants did you find in your many years of work with vaccines? A: All right. I'll give you some of what I came across, and I'll also give you what colleagues of mine found. Here's a partial list. In the Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio vaccine, we found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called " brain-eating " amoeba. Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the rotavirus vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various micro-organisms in the anthrax vaccine. I've found potentially dangerous enzyme inhibitors in several vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus in the MMR vaccine. Q: Let me get this straight. These are all contaminants which don't belong in the vaccines. A: That's right. And if you try to calculate what damage these contaminants can cause, well, we don't really know, because no testing has been done, or very little testing. It's a game of roulette. You take your chances. Also, most people don't know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus vaccines, rubella and hep A and measles vaccines have been made with aborted human fetal tissue. I have found what I believed were bacterial fragments and poliovirus in these vaccines from time to time -- which may have come from that fetal tissue. When you look for contaminants in vaccines, you can come up with material that IS puzzling. You know it shouldn't be there, but you don't know exactly what you've got. I have found what I believed was a very small " fragment " of human hair and also human mucus. I have found what can only be called " foreign protein, " which could mean almost anything. It could mean protein from viruses. Q: Alarm bells are ringing all over the place. A: How do you think I felt? Remember, this material is going into the bloodstream without passing through some of the ordinary immune defenses. Note from Ben Kim: Please don't overlook this point: when you inject any substance into your circulation via muscle tissue or blood vessel, your body's primary defense mechanisms are bypassed. These mechanisms include your skin, hair in your nasal passageway, adenoid tissues that line your pharynx (tonsils), and specialized membranes that line your nose, digestive tract (including your mouth and anal region), genitourinary tract, and vaginal canal. All of these mechanisms exist to protect you against harmful substances and pathogens. This is why it's not wise to remove tonsils without first looking to address the food and lifestyle choices that contribute to a chronic cough and sore throat. This is why you should not dry out the mucosal linings of the vaginal tract or anal region with soap - plain water is adequate. And this is why you must do everything that you can to promote a healthy digestive system if you want to have a strong first line of defense against harmful substances and pathogens. Q: How were your findings received? A: Basically, it was, don't worry, this can't be helped. In making vaccines, you use various animals' tissue, and that's where this kind of contamination enters in. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the standard chemicals like formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum which are purposely put into vaccines. Q: This information is pretty staggering. A: Yes. And I'm just mentioning some of the biological contaminants. Who knows how many others there are? Others we don't find because we don't think to look for them. If tissue from, say, a bird is used to make a vaccine, how many possible germs can be in that tissue? We have no idea. We have no idea what they might be, or what effects they could have on humans. Q: And beyond the purity issue? A: You are dealing with the basic faulty premise about vaccines. That they intricately stimulate the immune system to create the conditions for immunity from disease. That is the bad premise. It doesn't work that way. A vaccine is supposed to " create " antibodies which, indirectly, offer protection against disease. However, the immune system is much larger and more involved than antibodies and their related " killer cells. " Q: The immune system is? A: The entire body, really. Plus the mind. It's all immune system, you might say. That is why you can have, in the middle of an epidemic, those individuals who remain healthy. Q: So the level of general health is important. A: More than important. Vital. Q: How are vaccine statistics falsely presented? A: There are many ways. For example, suppose that 25 people who have received the hepatitis B vaccine come down with hepatitis. Well, hep B is a liver disease. But you can call liver disease many things. You can change the diagnosis. Then, you've concealed the root cause of the problem. Q: And that happens? A: All the time. It HAS to happen, if the doctors automatically assume that people who get vaccines DO NOT come down with the diseases they are now supposed to be protected from. And that is exactly what doctors assume. You see, it's circular reasoning. It's a closed system. It admits no fault. No possible fault. If a person who gets a vaccine against hepatitis gets hepatitis, or gets some other disease, the automatic assumption is, this had nothing to do with the disease. Q: In your years working in the vaccine establishment, how many doctors did you encounter who admitted that vaccines were a problem? A: None. There were a few who privately questioned what they were doing. But they would never go public, even within their companies. Q: What was the turning point for you? A: I had a friend whose baby died after a DPT shot. Q: Did you investigate? A: Yes, informally. I found that this baby was completely healthy before the vaccination. There was no reason for his death, except the vaccine. That started my doubts. Of course, I wanted to believe that the baby had gotten a bad shot from a bad lot. But as I looked into this further, I found that was not the case in this instance. I was being drawn into a spiral of doubt that increased over time. I continued to investigate. I found that, contrary to what I thought, vaccines are not tested in a scientific way. Q: What do you mean? A: For example, no long-term studies are done on any vaccines. Long-term follow-up is not done in any careful way. Why? Because, again, the assumption is made that vaccines do not cause problems. So why should anyone check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all bad reactions are said to occur very soon after the shot is given. But that does not make sense. Q: Why doesn't it make sense? A: Because the vaccine obviously acts in the body for a long period of time after it is given. A reaction can be gradual. Deterioration can be gradual. Neurological problems can develop over time. They do in various conditions, even according to a conventional analysis. So why couldn't that be the case with vaccines? If chemical poisoning can occur gradually, why couldn't that be the case with a vaccine which contains mercury? Q: And that is what you found? A: Yes. You are dealing with correlations, most of the time.Correlations are not perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose children have suffered neurological damage during a one-year period after having a vaccine, this should be sufficient to spark off an intense investigation. Q: Has it been enough? A: No. Never. This tells you something right away. Q: Which is? A: The people doing the investigation are not really interested in looking at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. So, when they do investigate, they invariably come up with exonerations of the vaccines. They say, " This vaccine is safe. " But what do they base those judgments on? They base them on definitions and ideas which automatically rule out a condemnation of the vaccine. Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has failed. Where people have come down with the disease against which they were vaccinated. A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the evidence is simply ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say anything at all, that this is just an isolated situation, but overall the vaccine has been shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vaccine campaigns where damage and disease have occurred, you realize that these are NOT isolated situations. Q: Did you ever discuss what we are talking about here with colleagues, when you were still working in the vaccine establishment? A: Yes I did. Q: What happened? A: Several times I was told to keep quiet. It was made clear that I should go back to work and forget my misgivings. On a few occasions, I encountered fear. Colleagues tried to avoid me. They felt they could be labeled with " guilt by association. " All in all, though, I behaved myself.I made sure I didn't create problems for myself. Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given? A: First of all, there is no " if. " They do harm. It becomes a more difficult question to decide whether they do harm in those people who seem to show no harm. Then you are dealing with the kind of research which should be done, but isn't. Researchers should be probing to discover a kind of map, or flow chart, which shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment they enter. This research has not been done. As to why they are given, we could sit here for two days and discuss all the reasons. As you've said many times, at different layers of the system people have their motives. Money, fear of losing a job, the desire to win brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided idealism, unthinking habit, and so on. But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel, vaccines are a top priority because they cause a weakening of the immune system. I know that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical cartel, at the highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm them, to weaken them. To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long conversation with a man who occupied a high government position in an African nation. He told me that he was well aware of this. He told me that WHO is a front for these depopulation interests. There is an underground, shall we say, in Africa, made up of various officials who are earnestly trying to change the lot of the poor. This network of people knows what is going on. They know that vaccines have been used, and are being used, to destroy their countries, to make them ripe for takeover by globalist powers. I have had the opportunity to speak with several of these people from this network. Q: Is Thabo Mbeki, the president of South Africa, aware of the situation? A: I would say he is partially aware. Perhaps he is not utterly convinced, but he is on the way to realizing the whole truth. He already knows that HIV is a hoax. He knows that the AIDS drugs are poisons which destroy the immune system. He also knows that if he speaks out, in any way, about the vaccine issue, he will be branded a lunatic. He has enough trouble after his stand on the AIDS issue. Note from Ben Kim: if you would like to read my take on HIV and AIDS, view the following article: AIDS: The Biggest Medical Mistake of All Time? Q: This network you speak of. A: It has accumulated a huge amount of information about vaccines. The question is, how is a successful strategy going to be mounted? For these people, that is a difficult issue. Q: And in the industrialized nations? A: The medical cartel has a stranglehold, but it is diminishing. Mainly because people have the freedom to question medicines. However, if the choice issue [the right to take or reject any medicine] does not gather steam, these coming mandates about vaccines against biowarefare germs are going to win out. This is an important time. Q: The furor over the hepatits B vaccine seems one good avenue. A: I think so, yes. To say that babies must have the vaccine-and then in the next breath, admitting that a person gets hep B from sexual contacts and shared needles -- is a ridiculous juxtaposition. Medical authorities try to cover themselves by saying that 20,000 or so children in the US get hep B every year from " unknown causes, " and that's why every baby must have the vaccine. I dispute that 20,00 figure and the so-called studies that back it up. Q: Wakefield, the British MD who uncovered the link between the MMR vaccine and autism, has just been fired from his job in a London hospital. A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great service. His correlations between the vaccine and autism are stunning. Perhaps you know that Tony Blair's wife is involved with alternative health. There is the possibility that their child has not been given the MMR. Blair recently side-stepped the question in press interviews, and made it seem that he was simply objecting to invasive questioning of his " personal and family life. " In any event, I believe his wife has been muzzled. I think, if given the chance, she would at least say she is sympathetic to all the families who have come forward and stated that their children were severely damaged by the MMR. Q: British reporters should try to get through to her. A: They have been trying. But I think she has made a deal with her husband to keep quiet, no matter what. She could do a great deal of good if she breaks her promise. I have been told she is under pressure, and not just from her husband. At the level she occupies, MI6 and British health authorities get into the act. It is thought of as a matter of national security. Q: Well, it is national security, once you understand the medical cartel. A: It is global security. The cartel operates in every nation. It zealously guards the sanctity of vaccines. Questioning these vaccines is on the same level as a Vatican bishop questioning the sanctity of the sacrament of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity stating publicly that he will not take a vaccine is committing career suicide. A: Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. There are several reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor who is famous can draw a huge amount of publicity if he says ANYTHING. In 1992, I was present at your demonstration against the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One or two actors spoke against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard pressed to find an actor who has spoken out in any way against the medical cartel. Q: Within the National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, what is the basic frame of mind? A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing they think about is challenging the status quo. They are already in an intramural war for that money. They don't need more trouble. This is a very insulated system. It depends on the idea that, by and large, modern medicine is very successful on every frontier. To admit systemic problems in any area is to cast doubt on the whole enterprise. You might therefore think that NIH is the last place one should think about holding demonstrations. But just the reverse is true. If five thousand people showed up there demanding an accounting of the actual benefits of that research system, demanding to know what real health benefits have been conferred on the public from the billions of wasted dollars funneled to that facility, something might start. A spark might go off. You might get, with further demonstrations, all sorts of fall-out. Researchers -- a few -- might start leaking information. Q: A good idea. A: People in suits standing as close to the buildings as the police will allow. People in business suits, in jogging suits, mothers and babies. Well-off people. Poor people. All sorts of people. Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number of vaccines given to babies these days? A: It is a travesty and a crime. There are no real studies of any depth which have been done on that. Again, the assumption is made that vaccines are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines given together are safe as well. But the truth is, vaccines are not safe. Therefore the potential damage increases when you give many of them in a short time period. Q: Then we have the fall flu season. A: Yes. As if only in the autumn do these germs float in to the US from Asia. The public swallows that premise. If it happens in April, it is a bad cold. If it happens in October, it is the flu. Q: Do you regret having worked all those years in the vaccine field? A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a little less. And I work in other ways. I give out information to certain people, when I think they will use it well. Q: What is one thing you want the public to understand? A: That the burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license them for public use. Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for proof you need well-designed long-term studies. You need extensive follow-up. You need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their babies and what happens to them after vaccination. You need all these things. The things that are not there. Q: The things that are not there. A: Yes. Q: To avoid any confusion, I'd like you to review, once more, the disease problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how that happens. A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful outcomes. One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version of the disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn't get THAT disease, but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he develops another condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition could be autism, what's called autism, or it could be some other disease like meningitis. He could become mentally disabled. Q: Is there any way to compare the relative frequency of these different outcomes? A: No. Because the follow-up is poor. We can only guess. If you ask, out of a population of a hundred thousand children who get a measles vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many develop other problems from the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is what I'm saying. Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don't get facts you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to enforce the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece together a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have been harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death. The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.In the US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.They are essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the researchers and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing. Q: Let me ask you this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you raised that child with good nutritious food and he exercised every day and he was loved by his parents, and he didn't get the measles vaccine, what would be his health status compared with the average child in Boston who eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day and gets the measles vaccine? A: Of course there are many factors involved, but I would bet on the better health status for the first child. If he gets measles, if he gets it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much lighter than the measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first child every time. Q: How long did you work with vaccines? A: A long time. Longer than ten years. Q: Looking back now, can you recall any good reason to say that vaccines are successful? A: No, I can't. If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination. I would move out of the state if I had to. I would change the family name. I would disappear. With my family. I'm not saying it would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the system with grace, if you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare, in every state, based on religious and/or philosophic views. But if push came to shove, I would go on the move. Q: And yet there are children everywhere who do get vaccines and appear to be healthy. A: The operative word is " appear. " What about all the children who can't focus on their studies? What about the children who have tantrums from time to time? What about the children who are not quite in possession of all their mental faculties? I know there are many causes for these things, but vaccines are one cause. I would not take the chance. I see no reason to take the chance. And frankly, I see no reason to allow the government to have the last word. Government medicine is, from my experience, often a contradiction in terms. You get one or the other, but not both. Q: So we come to the level playing field. A: Yes. Allow those who want the vaccines to take them. Allow the dissidents to decline to take them. But, as I said earlier, there is no level playing field if the field is strewn with lies. And when babies are involved, you have parents making all the decisions. Those parents need a heavy dose of truth. What about the child I spoke of who died from the DPT shot? What information did his parents act on? I can tell you it was heavily weighted. It was not real information. Q: Medical PR people, in concert with the press, scare the hell out of parents with dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't get shots. A: They make it seem a crime to refuse the vaccine. They equate it with bad parenting. You fight that with better information. It is always a challenge to buck the authorities. And only you can decide whether to do it. It is every person's responsibility to make up his mind. The medical cartel likes that bet. It is betting that the fear will win. Dr. Mark Randall is the pseudonym of a vaccine researcher who worked for many years in the labs of major pharmaceutical houses and the US government's National Institutes of Health. Mark retired during the last decade. He says he was " disgusted with what he discovered about vaccines. " As you know, since the beginning of nomorefakenews, I have been launching an attack against non-scientific and dangerous assertions about the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Mark has been one of my sources. He is a little reluctant to speak out, even under the cover of anonymity, but with the current push to make vaccines mandatory -- with penalties like quarantine lurking in the wings -- he has decided to break his silence. He lives comfortably in retirement, but like many of my long-time sources, he has developed a conscience about his former work. Mark is well aware of the scope of the medical cartel and its goals of depopulation, mind control, and general debilitation of populations. To learn more about Jon Rappoport and his work as a journalist, you can visit his site here: NoMoreFakeNews.com. Thank you once again to Jon for giving us permission to share this interview on our website. If you haven't already done so, you can read a true story of one family's loss due to a lethal vaccine infection here: Death By Lethal Vaccine Injection > > > > > > Oh my!..... > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much for the link. > > > > > EXACTLY!!!! And that's why i've encouraged speaking about vaccines on > > this group as i do believe they are causing most all the pschy > > problems we are dealing with. They are creating this ever growing > > problem with thinking disorders WITH THE VACCINES!!!!!!!!!!!!! They > > know exactly what their doing and their doing it on purpose! One > > recent discovery of mine is the ingredient in the vaccine that i > > believe pushed my son over the edge. I think it was the DPT or the DT > > vax, but it has polysorbate 80 or something like that and what this > > does is help the toxins in the vaccines to bust through the blood > > brain barrier reeking havoc on the central nervous system, which > > translates into BRAIN DAMAGE and BIG $$$$$$ for you know who! > > > > Connie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Micki,Dr. Ben Kim posted this interview on his site with Jon's permission.I presume that will be OK, provided it is posted with credits and links to Dr. Ben Kim and Jon Rappoport.It is shocking I agree...Take care.Stephmicki <mouster71@...> wrote: Steph, Very interesting.. may I forward this on to my healthy eating group, I know some will be interested in this interview. I can’t believe there are so many containments in the vaccines itself. I never thought of that, just thought it was the mercury and crap we had to worry about. hugs Micki Health Eating and Living Together he2gether_/ My brother's online store check it out http://mcgregorgifts.ecrater.com/ From: SSRI medications [mailto:SSRI medications ] On Behalf Of alfred8991 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 10:41 AM SSRI medications Subject: Vaccines Seems like a flawed concept no matter how you look at it Micki... This whistleblower explains best. Steph http://drbenkim.com/articles-vaccine-risks.htm Home » Common Health Concerns » Health Warnings Jon Rappoport Interviews a Retired Vaccine Researcher By Dr. Ben Kim on May 24, 2006 * Health Warnings * Children's Health Issues * Healthy Pregnancy Preface: One of our newsletter subscribers sent me the following interview that a journalist named Jon Rappoport did with a retired vaccine researcher a few years ago. Many thanks to Jon for giving us permission to share this interview with our subscribers. - Ben Kim *** Q: You were once certain that vaccines were the hallmark of good medicine. A: Yes I was. I helped develop a few vaccines. I won't say which ones. Q: Why not? A: I want to preserve my privacy. Q: So you think you could have problems if you came out into the open? A: I believe I could lose my pension. Q: On what grounds? A: The grounds don't matter. These people have ways of causing you problems, when you were once part of the Club. I know one or two people who were put under surveillance, who were harassed. Q: Harassed by whom? A: The FBI. Q: Really? A: Sure. The FBI used other pretexts. And the IRS can come calling too. Q: So much for free speech. A: I was "part of the inner circle." If now I began to name names and make specific accusations against researchers, I could be in a world of trouble. Q: What is at the bottom of these efforts at harassment? A: Vaccines are the last defense of modern medicine. Vaccines are the ultimate justification for the overall "brilliance" of modern medicine. Q: Do you believe that people should be allowed to choose whether they should get vaccines? A: On a political level, yes. On a scientific level, people need information, so that they can choose well. It's one thing to say choice is good. But if the atmosphere is full of lies, how can you choose? Also, if the FDA were run by honorable people, these vaccines would not be granted licenses. They would be investigated to within an inch of their lives. Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall decline of illnesses was not due to vaccines. A: I know. For a long time, I ignored their work. Q: Why? A: Because I was afraid of what I would find out. I was in the business of developing vaccines. My livelihood depended on continuing that work. Q: And then? A: I did my own investigation. Q: What conclusions did you come to? A: The decline of disease is due to improved living conditions. Q: What conditions? A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher food. A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are healthy, you don't contract the diseases as easily. Q: What did you feel when you completed your own investigation? A: Despair. I realized I was working a sector based on a collection of lies. Q: Are some vaccines more dangerous than others? A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But some lots of a vaccine are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine. As far as I'm concerned, all vaccines are dangerous. Q: Why? A: Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process that tends to compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease they are supposed to prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones they are supposed to prevent. Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that vaccines have been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases? A: Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a vaccine suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone assumes that the vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine can harm the immune system itself. And if it causes other diseases -- say, meningitis -- that fact is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine can do that. The connection is overlooked. Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox in England. A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get another picture. Q: Which is? A: There were cities in England where people who were not vaccinated did not get smallpox. There were places where people who were vaccinated experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox was already on the decline before the vaccine was introduced. Q: So you're saying that we have been treated to a false history. A: Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a history that has been cooked up to convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective. Q: Now, you worked in labs. Where purity was an issue. A: The public believes that these labs, these manufacturing facilities are the cleanest places in the world. That is not true. Contamination occurs all the time. You get all sorts of debris introduced into vaccines. Q: For example, the SV40 monkey virus slips into the polio vaccine. A: Well yes, that happened. But that's not what I mean. The SV40 got into the polio vaccine because the vaccine was made by using monkey kidneys. But I'm talking about something else. The actual lab conditions. The mistakes. The careless errors. SV40, which was later found in cancer tumors -- that was what I would call a structural problem. It was an accepted part of the manufacturing process. If you use monkey kidneys, you open the door to germs which you don't know are in those kidneys. Q: Okay, but let's ignore that distinction between different types of contaminants for a moment. What contaminants did you find in your many years of work with vaccines? A: All right. I'll give you some of what I came across, and I'll also give you what colleagues of mine found. Here's a partial list. In the Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio vaccine, we found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called "brain-eating" amoeba. Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the rotavirus vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various micro-organisms in the anthrax vaccine. I've found potentially dangerous enzyme inhibitors in several vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus in the MMR vaccine. Q: Let me get this straight. These are all contaminants which don't belong in the vaccines. A: That's right. And if you try to calculate what damage these contaminants can cause, well, we don't really know, because no testing has been done, or very little testing. It's a game of roulette. You take your chances. Also, most people don't know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus vaccines, rubella and hep A and measles vaccines have been made with aborted human fetal tissue. I have found what I believed were bacterial fragments and poliovirus in these vaccines from time to time -- which may have come from that fetal tissue. When you look for contaminants in vaccines, you can come up with material that IS puzzling. You know it shouldn't be there, but you don't know exactly what you've got. I have found what I believed was a very small "fragment" of human hair and also human mucus. I have found what can only be called "foreign protein," which could mean almost anything. It could mean protein from viruses. Q: Alarm bells are ringing all over the place. A: How do you think I felt? Remember, this material is going into the bloodstream without passing through some of the ordinary immune defenses. Note from Ben Kim: Please don't overlook this point: when you inject any substance into your circulation via muscle tissue or blood vessel, your body's primary defense mechanisms are bypassed. These mechanisms include your skin, hair in your nasal passageway, adenoid tissues that line your pharynx (tonsils), and specialized membranes that line your nose, digestive tract (including your mouth and anal region), genitourinary tract, and vaginal canal. All of these mechanisms exist to protect you against harmful substances and pathogens. This is why it's not wise to remove tonsils without first looking to address the food and lifestyle choices that contribute to a chronic cough and sore throat. This is why you should not dry out the mucosal linings of the vaginal tract or anal region with soap - plain water is adequate. And this is why you must do everything that you can to promote a healthy digestive system if you want to have a strong first line of defense against harmful substances and pathogens. Q: How were your findings received? A: Basically, it was, don't worry, this can't be helped. In making vaccines, you use various animals' tissue, and that's where this kind of contamination enters in. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the standard chemicals like formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum which are purposely put into vaccines. Q: This information is pretty staggering. A: Yes. And I'm just mentioning some of the biological contaminants. Who knows how many others there are? Others we don't find because we don't think to look for them. If tissue from, say, a bird is used to make a vaccine, how many possible germs can be in that tissue? We have no idea. We have no idea what they might be, or what effects they could have on humans. Q: And beyond the purity issue? A: You are dealing with the basic faulty premise about vaccines. That they intricately stimulate the immune system to create the conditions for immunity from disease. That is the bad premise. It doesn't work that way. A vaccine is supposed to "create" antibodies which, indirectly, offer protection against disease. However, the immune system is much larger and more involved than antibodies and their related "killer cells." Q: The immune system is? A: The entire body, really. Plus the mind. It's all immune system, you might say. That is why you can have, in the middle of an epidemic, those individuals who remain healthy. Q: So the level of general health is important. A: More than important. Vital. Q: How are vaccine statistics falsely presented? A: There are many ways. For example, suppose that 25 people who have received the hepatitis B vaccine come down with hepatitis. Well, hep B is a liver disease. But you can call liver disease many things. You can change the diagnosis. Then, you've concealed the root cause of the problem. Q: And that happens? A: All the time. It HAS to happen, if the doctors automatically assume that people who get vaccines DO NOT come down with the diseases they are now supposed to be protected from. And that is exactly what doctors assume. You see, it's circular reasoning. It's a closed system. It admits no fault. No possible fault. If a person who gets a vaccine against hepatitis gets hepatitis, or gets some other disease, the automatic assumption is, this had nothing to do with the disease. Q: In your years working in the vaccine establishment, how many doctors did you encounter who admitted that vaccines were a problem? A: None. There were a few who privately questioned what they were doing. But they would never go public, even within their companies. Q: What was the turning point for you? A: I had a friend whose baby died after a DPT shot. Q: Did you investigate? A: Yes, informally. I found that this baby was completely healthy before the vaccination. There was no reason for his death, except the vaccine. That started my doubts. Of course, I wanted to believe that the baby had gotten a bad shot from a bad lot. But as I looked into this further, I found that was not the case in this instance. I was being drawn into a spiral of doubt that increased over time. I continued to investigate. I found that, contrary to what I thought, vaccines are not tested in a scientific way. Q: What do you mean? A: For example, no long-term studies are done on any vaccines. Long-term follow-up is not done in any careful way. Why? Because, again, the assumption is made that vaccines do not cause problems. So why should anyone check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all bad reactions are said to occur very soon after the shot is given. But that does not make sense. Q: Why doesn't it make sense? A: Because the vaccine obviously acts in the body for a long period of time after it is given. A reaction can be gradual. Deterioration can be gradual. Neurological problems can develop over time. They do in various conditions, even according to a conventional analysis. So why couldn't that be the case with vaccines? If chemical poisoning can occur gradually, why couldn't that be the case with a vaccine which contains mercury? Q: And that is what you found? A: Yes. You are dealing with correlations, most of the time.Correlations are not perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose children have suffered neurological damage during a one-year period after having a vaccine, this should be sufficient to spark off an intense investigation. Q: Has it been enough? A: No. Never. This tells you something right away. Q: Which is? A: The people doing the investigation are not really interested in looking at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. So, when they do investigate, they invariably come up with exonerations of the vaccines. They say, "This vaccine is safe." But what do they base those judgments on? They base them on definitions and ideas which automatically rule out a condemnation of the vaccine. Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has failed. Where people have come down with the disease against which they were vaccinated. A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the evidence is simply ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say anything at all, that this is just an isolated situation, but overall the vaccine has been shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vaccine campaigns where damage and disease have occurred, you realize that these are NOT isolated situations. Q: Did you ever discuss what we are talking about here with colleagues, when you were still working in the vaccine establishment? A: Yes I did. Q: What happened? A: Several times I was told to keep quiet. It was made clear that I should go back to work and forget my misgivings. On a few occasions, I encountered fear. Colleagues tried to avoid me. They felt they could be labeled with "guilt by association." All in all, though, I behaved myself.I made sure I didn't create problems for myself. Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given? A: First of all, there is no "if." They do harm. It becomes a more difficult question to decide whether they do harm in those people who seem to show no harm. Then you are dealing with the kind of research which should be done, but isn't. Researchers should be probing to discover a kind of map, or flow chart, which shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment they enter. This research has not been done. As to why they are given, we could sit here for two days and discuss all the reasons. As you've said many times, at different layers of the system people have their motives. Money, fear of losing a job, the desire to win brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided idealism, unthinking habit, and so on. But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel, vaccines are a top priority because they cause a weakening of the immune system. I know that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical cartel, at the highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm them, to weaken them. To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long conversation with a man who occupied a high government position in an African nation. He told me that he was well aware of this. He told me that WHO is a front for these depopulation interests. There is an underground, shall we say, in Africa, made up of various officials who are earnestly trying to change the lot of the poor. This network of people knows what is going on. They know that vaccines have been used, and are being used, to destroy their countries, to make them ripe for takeover by globalist powers. I have had the opportunity to speak with several of these people from this network. Q: Is Thabo Mbeki, the president of South Africa, aware of the situation? A: I would say he is partially aware. Perhaps he is not utterly convinced, but he is on the way to realizing the whole truth. He already knows that HIV is a hoax. He knows that the AIDS drugs are poisons which destroy the immune system. He also knows that if he speaks out, in any way, about the vaccine issue, he will be branded a lunatic. He has enough trouble after his stand on the AIDS issue. Note from Ben Kim: if you would like to read my take on HIV and AIDS, view the following article: AIDS: The Biggest Medical Mistake of All Time? Q: This network you speak of. A: It has accumulated a huge amount of information about vaccines. The question is, how is a successful strategy going to be mounted? For these people, that is a difficult issue. Q: And in the industrialized nations? A: The medical cartel has a stranglehold, but it is diminishing. Mainly because people have the freedom to question medicines. However, if the choice issue [the right to take or reject any medicine] does not gather steam, these coming mandates about vaccines against biowarefare germs are going to win out. This is an important time. Q: The furor over the hepatits B vaccine seems one good avenue. A: I think so, yes. To say that babies must have the vaccine-and then in the next breath, admitting that a person gets hep B from sexual contacts and shared needles -- is a ridiculous juxtaposition. Medical authorities try to cover themselves by saying that 20,000 or so children in the US get hep B every year from "unknown causes," and that's why every baby must have the vaccine. I dispute that 20,00 figure and the so-called studies that back it up. Q: Wakefield, the British MD who uncovered the link between the MMR vaccine and autism, has just been fired from his job in a London hospital. A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great service. His correlations between the vaccine and autism are stunning. Perhaps you know that Tony Blair's wife is involved with alternative health. There is the possibility that their child has not been given the MMR. Blair recently side-stepped the question in press interviews, and made it seem that he was simply objecting to invasive questioning of his "personal and family life." In any event, I believe his wife has been muzzled. I think, if given the chance, she would at least say she is sympathetic to all the families who have come forward and stated that their children were severely damaged by the MMR. Q: British reporters should try to get through to her. A: They have been trying. But I think she has made a deal with her husband to keep quiet, no matter what. She could do a great deal of good if she breaks her promise. I have been told she is under pressure, and not just from her husband. At the level she occupies, MI6 and British health authorities get into the act. It is thought of as a matter of national security. Q: Well, it is national security, once you understand the medical cartel. A: It is global security. The cartel operates in every nation. It zealously guards the sanctity of vaccines. Questioning these vaccines is on the same level as a Vatican bishop questioning the sanctity of the sacrament of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity stating publicly that he will not take a vaccine is committing career suicide. A: Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. There are several reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor who is famous can draw a huge amount of publicity if he says ANYTHING. In 1992, I was present at your demonstration against the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One or two actors spoke against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard pressed to find an actor who has spoken out in any way against the medical cartel. Q: Within the National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, what is the basic frame of mind? A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing they think about is challenging the status quo. They are already in an intramural war for that money. They don't need more trouble. This is a very insulated system. It depends on the idea that, by and large, modern medicine is very successful on every frontier. To admit systemic problems in any area is to cast doubt on the whole enterprise. You might therefore think that NIH is the last place one should think about holding demonstrations. But just the reverse is true. If five thousand people showed up there demanding an accounting of the actual benefits of that research system, demanding to know what real health benefits have been conferred on the public from the billions of wasted dollars funneled to that facility, something might start. A spark might go off. You might get, with further demonstrations, all sorts of fall-out. Researchers -- a few -- might start leaking information. Q: A good idea. A: People in suits standing as close to the buildings as the police will allow. People in business suits, in jogging suits, mothers and babies. Well-off people. Poor people. All sorts of people. Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number of vaccines given to babies these days? A: It is a travesty and a crime. There are no real studies of any depth which have been done on that. Again, the assumption is made that vaccines are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines given together are safe as well. But the truth is, vaccines are not safe. Therefore the potential damage increases when you give many of them in a short time period. Q: Then we have the fall flu season. A: Yes. As if only in the autumn do these germs float in to the US from Asia. The public swallows that premise. If it happens in April, it is a bad cold. If it happens in October, it is the flu. Q: Do you regret having worked all those years in the vaccine field? A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a little less. And I work in other ways. I give out information to certain people, when I think they will use it well. Q: What is one thing you want the public to understand? A: That the burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license them for public use. Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for proof you need well-designed long-term studies. You need extensive follow-up. You need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their babies and what happens to them after vaccination. You need all these things. The things that are not there. Q: The things that are not there. A: Yes. Q: To avoid any confusion, I'd like you to review, once more, the disease problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how that happens. A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful outcomes. One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version of the disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn't get THAT disease, but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he develops another condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition could be autism, what's called autism, or it could be some other disease like meningitis. He could become mentally disabled. Q: Is there any way to compare the relative frequency of these different outcomes? A: No. Because the follow-up is poor. We can only guess. If you ask, out of a population of a hundred thousand children who get a measles vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many develop other problems from the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is what I'm saying. Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don't get facts you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to enforce the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece together a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have been harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death. The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.In the US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.They are essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the researchers and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing. Q: Let me ask you this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you raised that child with good nutritious food and he exercised every day and he was loved by his parents, and he didn't get the measles vaccine, what would be his health status compared with the average child in Boston who eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day and gets the measles vaccine? A: Of course there are many factors involved, but I would bet on the better health status for the first child. If he gets measles, if he gets it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much lighter than the measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first child every time. Q: How long did you work with vaccines? A: A long time. Longer than ten years. Q: Looking back now, can you recall any good reason to say that vaccines are successful? A: No, I can't. If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination. I would move out of the state if I had to. I would change the family name. I would disappear. With my family. I'm not saying it would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the system with grace, if you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare, in every state, based on religious and/or philosophic views. But if push came to shove, I would go on the move. Q: And yet there are children everywhere who do get vaccines and appear to be healthy. A: The operative word is "appear." What about all the children who can't focus on their studies? What about the children who have tantrums from time to time? What about the children who are not quite in possession of all their mental faculties? I know there are many causes for these things, but vaccines are one cause. I would not take the chance. I see no reason to take the chance. And frankly, I see no reason to allow the government to have the last word. Government medicine is, from my experience, often a contradiction in terms. You get one or the other, but not both. Q: So we come to the level playing field. A: Yes. Allow those who want the vaccines to take them. Allow the dissidents to decline to take them. But, as I said earlier, there is no level playing field if the field is strewn with lies. And when babies are involved, you have parents making all the decisions. Those parents need a heavy dose of truth. What about the child I spoke of who died from the DPT shot? What information did his parents act on? I can tell you it was heavily weighted. It was not real information. Q: Medical PR people, in concert with the press, scare the hell out of parents with dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't get shots. A: They make it seem a crime to refuse the vaccine. They equate it with bad parenting. You fight that with better information. It is always a challenge to buck the authorities. And only you can decide whether to do it. It is every person's responsibility to make up his mind. The medical cartel likes that bet. It is betting that the fear will win. Dr. Mark Randall is the pseudonym of a vaccine researcher who worked for many years in the labs of major pharmaceutical houses and the US government's National Institutes of Health. Mark retired during the last decade. He says he was "disgusted with what he discovered about vaccines." As you know, since the beginning of nomorefakenews, I have been launching an attack against non-scientific and dangerous assertions about the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Mark has been one of my sources. He is a little reluctant to speak out, even under the cover of anonymity, but with the current push to make vaccines mandatory -- with penalties like quarantine lurking in the wings -- he has decided to break his silence. He lives comfortably in retirement, but like many of my long-time sources, he has developed a conscience about his former work. Mark is well aware of the scope of the medical cartel and its goals of depopulation, mind control, and general debilitation of populations. To learn more about Jon Rappoport and his work as a journalist, you can visit his site here: NoMoreFakeNews.com. Thank you once again to Jon for giving us permission to share this interview on our website. If you haven't already done so, you can read a true story of one family's loss due to a lethal vaccine infection here: Death By Lethal Vaccine Injection > > > > > > Oh my!..... > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much for the link. > > > > > EXACTLY!!!! And that's why i've encouraged speaking about vaccines on > > this group as i do believe they are causing most all the pschy > > problems we are dealing with. They are creating this ever growing > > problem with thinking disorders WITH THE VACCINES!!!!!!!!!!!!! They > > know exactly what their doing and their doing it on purpose! One > > recent discovery of mine is the ingredient in the vaccine that i > > believe pushed my son over the edge. I think it was the DPT or the DT > > vax, but it has polysorbate 80 or something like that and what this > > does is help the toxins in the vaccines to bust through the blood > > brain barrier reeking havoc on the central nervous system, which > > translates into BRAIN DAMAGE and BIG $$$$$$ for you know who! > > > > Connie > > > Sent from . A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 My youngest is 23, but in Ontario I think they still give diptheria, tetanus and polio at 2, 4, 6 and 18 months. Measles, mumps and rubella at a year. DPT again at 5. Since children don't get measles or mumps anymore, they have to be reinnoculated every ten years. I wonder if it would just be better to get the mumps and measles in childhood. Get them when you're an adult and they can be fatal. Unfortunately, it is law here that your children be innoculated. They can't go to school without their immunization records, so parents have NO choice. I was terrified with my two youngest were babies and innoculated. Their reactions were so severe and I was terrified of brain damage, particularly at the 18 month level. It was what they were putting into the diptheria one that was causing problems. I know people say that the polio shot may have caused fibro, but I am definitely glad I had those shots. Polio was a horrible epidemic that maimed, paralyzed and killed thousands. I just don't think immunizations should be forced on people. HelenCJ <alliekeel@...> wrote: Hello! I don't have any children, but I was wondering what vaccines children are innoculated with these days?My husband just started a new job and is going through Hepatitis shots. I never had them in any point in my life. I'm now 45.As per discussion of the polio vaccine, I went to look in my school year book where my mother had written down all my vaccines I had and their dates. I had the polio vaccine and sugar cube in 1962, 1963, a Polio B vaccine in 1967, and a DTP in 1979. Did I get enough POLIO vaccine MOTHER??????? I certainly hope MOTHERS of today are a little more With IT in watching what gets injected into their children.Anyway, I still think this viral link to Fibromyalgia and vaccinations is a very warranted study. Look at all the Gulf War Syndrome patients there are. And, boy, did they get plenty of vaccines!Just a thought on all of this.CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 The conclusion was it ‘aggravated’ not caused the autism : ‘A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries caused by vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying illness that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was " significantly aggravated " by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her family should therefore be compensated.’ http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index.htm s. fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C. Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM oregondc Subject: Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 C'mon the girl had 5 vaccines in Jul 2000 then went into a high fever and encephalopathy 2 days later that deteriorated into autistic behaviour. Aggravated.... hmmmm The vaccines are not safe and never have been. To attempt to sweep under the rug the dangers of the vaccinations is ludicrous. Post 911 the Pentagon vaccinated 40, 000 people for smallpox, of which 1000 had adverse reactions including 1 death. The program was stopped, .. read... Times mag for the article. Vaccinations aren't harmful ? Gimme a break. Try telling the family of the deceased that vaccinations are not harmful. Fundenberg study over a 10 year period showed a 9x increase in Alzhiemer's for people receiving 5 consecutive flu shots and recently the CDC came out saying they realize the vaccinations are pretty much worthless BUT people should get them anyways despite the contaimenents such as mercury, anti freeze etc, etc, etc (eFluxMedia.com 02-12-08) Hmm could this be harmful to me? Pediatric cancer increasing exponentially.... wonder why... seems to coincide pretty congruently with the rise in number of vaccinations hmmmmm... Ever wonder why the government is attempting to seal all the records of the vaccination/compensation victims? http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?125225. Bird flu? Big scare... but guess what Rumsfields Pharma got 200 mil for vaccinations that were unproven and not needed Japan went from infant mortality rate 17th in the world to #1 by passing a law that children youngrer than 2 could not be vaccinated. Ridiculous to not consider the dangers. Does the benefit outweigh the risks... that should be a decision, not a mandate. Should the vaccinators be held accountable when things go wrong ....you betcha. Danno Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Just a random association here... My 32 year old daughter in law died last fall succumbing to Signet cell carcinoma of the stomach. We have a friend in Chicago who’s 30-something niece was dx’d with the same cancer. The oncologist said that they are seeing an explosion of stomach cancer in younger women which used to be a older smoking, drinking, male disease. They don’t know why but wouldn’t it be wise to look to all sorts of lifestyle factors? I.e. Deficiency of EFA’s and an exponential increase in vaccines. E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com From: " D Beebe, D.C. " <daniel.beebe@...> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:16:28 -0700 Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...> Cc: oregondc < > Subject: Re: Vaccines C'mon the girl had 5 vaccines in Jul 2000 then went into a high fever and encephalopathy 2 days later that deteriorated into autistic behaviour. Aggravated.... hmmmm The vaccines are not safe and never have been. To attempt to sweep under the rug the dangers of the vaccinations is ludicrous. Post 911 the Pentagon vaccinated 40, 000 people for smallpox, of which 1000 had adverse reactions including 1 death. The program was stopped, .. read... Times mag for the article. Vaccinations aren't harmful ? Gimme a break. Try telling the family of the deceased that vaccinations are not harmful. Fundenberg study over a 10 year period showed a 9x increase in Alzhiemer's for people receiving 5 consecutive flu shots and recently the CDC came out saying they realize the vaccinations are pretty much worthless BUT people should get them anyways despite the contaimenents such as mercury, anti freeze etc, etc, etc (eFluxMedia.com 02-12-08) Hmm could this be harmful to me? Pediatric cancer increasing exponentially.... wonder why... seems to coincide pretty congruently with the rise in number of vaccinations hmmmmm... Ever wonder why the government is attempting to seal all the records of the vaccination/compensation victims? http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?125225. Bird flu? Big scare... but guess what Rumsfields Pharma got 200 mil for vaccinations that were unproven and not needed Japan went from infant mortality rate 17th in the world to #1 by passing a law that children youngrer than 2 could not be vaccinated. Ridiculous to not consider the dangers. Does the benefit outweigh the risks... that should be a decision, not a mandate. Should the vaccinators be held accountable when things go wrong ....you betcha. Danno [From OregonDCs] Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 All I forwarded was the conclusion that the vaccine was an ‘aggravation’ of an underlying condition not ‘cause’ of the condition. This is what the facts proved. It would be interesting to know more about the underlying medical condition. The father, a medical neurologist , appeared to be happy with the conclusion so that his child could be compensated under the National Vaccine Compensation Act . The act was set up because indeed people have been injured by vaccines. The problem though is deciding who is injured from the vaccine vs. something else. s. fuchs dc From: D Beebe, D.C. [mailto:daniel.beebe@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:16 PM Sharron Fuchs Cc: oregondc Subject: Re: Vaccines C'mon the girl had 5 vaccines in Jul 2000 then went into a high fever and encephalopathy 2 days later that deteriorated into autistic behaviour. Aggravated.... hmmmm The vaccines are not safe and never have been. To attempt to sweep under the rug the dangers of the vaccinations is ludicrous. Post 911 the Pentagon vaccinated 40, 000 people for smallpox, of which 1000 had adverse reactions including 1 death. The program was stopped, .. read... Times mag for the article. Vaccinations aren't harmful ? Gimme a break. Try telling the family of the deceased that vaccinations are not harmful. Fundenberg study over a 10 year period showed a 9x increase in Alzhiemer's for people receiving 5 consecutive flu shots and recently the CDC came out saying they realize the vaccinations are pretty much worthless BUT people should get them anyways despite the contaimenents such as mercury, anti freeze etc, etc, etc (eFluxMedia.com 02-12-08) Hmm could this be harmful to me? Pediatric cancer increasing exponentially.... wonder why... seems to coincide pretty congruently with the rise in number of vaccinations hmmmmm... Ever wonder why the government is attempting to seal all the records of the vaccination/compensation victims? http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?125225. Bird flu? Big scare... but guess what Rumsfields Pharma got 200 mil for vaccinations that were unproven and not needed Japan went from infant mortality rate 17th in the world to #1 by passing a law that children youngrer than 2 could not be vaccinated. Ridiculous to not consider the dangers. Does the benefit outweigh the risks... that should be a decision, not a mandate. Should the vaccinators be held accountable when things go wrong ....you betcha. Danno Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Your point is well taken, Sharon ... and, after my length of time in health(?) care, what can be seen is the semantical manner of avoiding responsibility while covering the collective a**e*. Couldn't it be called 'cya'? Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 CC: From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:55:52 -0700Subject: RE: Vaccines All I forwarded was the conclusion that the vaccine was an ‘aggravation’ of an underlying condition not ‘cause’ of the condition. This is what the facts proved. It would be interesting to know more about the underlying medical condition. The father, a medical neurologist , appeared to be happy with the conclusion so that his child could be compensated under the National Vaccine Compensation Act . The act was set up because indeed people have been injured by vaccines. The problem though is deciding who is injured from the vaccine vs. something else. s. fuchs dc From: D Beebe, D.C. [mailto:daniel.beebeverizon (DOT) net] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:16 PMSharron FuchsCc: oregondcSubject: Re: Vaccines C'mon the girl had 5 vaccines in Jul 2000 then went into a high fever and encephalopathy 2 days later that deteriorated into autistic behaviour. Aggravated.... hmmmm The vaccines are not safe and never have been. To attempt to sweep under the rug the dangers of the vaccinations is ludicrous. Post 911 the Pentagon vaccinated 40, 000 people for smallpox, of which 1000 had adverse reactions including 1 death. The program was stopped, .. read... Times mag for the article. Vaccinations aren't harmful ? Gimme a break. Try telling the family of the deceased that vaccinations are not harmful. Fundenberg study over a 10 year period showed a 9x increase in Alzhiemer's for people receiving 5 consecutive flu shots and recently the CDC came out saying they realize the vaccinations are pretty much worthless BUT people should get them anyways despite the contaimenents such as mercury, anti freeze etc, etc, etc (eFluxMedia.com 02-12-08) Hmm could this be harmful to me? Pediatric cancer increasing exponentially.... wonder why... seems to coincide pretty congruently with the rise in number of vaccinations hmmmmm... Ever wonder why the government is attempting to seal all the records of the vaccination/compensation victims? http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?125225. Bird flu? Big scare... but guess what Rumsfields Pharma got 200 mil for vaccinations that were unproven and not needed Japan went from infant mortality rate 17th in the world to #1 by passing a law that children youngrer than 2 could not be vaccinated. Ridiculous to not consider the dangers. Does the benefit outweigh the risks... that should be a decision, not a mandate. Should the vaccinators be held accountable when things go wrong ....you betcha. Danno Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I did not read it as a cya – I read it as a great thing to admit that there was some relationship and thus the child could be compensated. s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:13 PM Sharron Fuchs Cc: oregondc Subject: RE: Vaccines Your point is well taken, Sharon ... and, after my length of time in health(?) care, what can be seen is the semantical manner of avoiding responsibility while covering the collective a**e*. Couldn't it be called 'cya'? Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 CC: From: sharronf@... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:55:52 -0700 Subject: RE: Vaccines All I forwarded was the conclusion that the vaccine was an ‘aggravation’ of an underlying condition not ‘cause’ of the condition. This is what the facts proved. It would be interesting to know more about the underlying medical condition. The father, a medical neurologist , appeared to be happy with the conclusion so that his child could be compensated under the National Vaccine Compensation Act . The act was set up because indeed people have been injured by vaccines. The problem though is deciding who is injured from the vaccine vs. something else. s. fuchs dc From: D Beebe, D.C. [mailto:daniel.beebeverizon (DOT) net] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:16 PM Sharron Fuchs Cc: oregondc Subject: Re: Vaccines C'mon the girl had 5 vaccines in Jul 2000 then went into a high fever and encephalopathy 2 days later that deteriorated into autistic behaviour. Aggravated.... hmmmm The vaccines are not safe and never have been. To attempt to sweep under the rug the dangers of the vaccinations is ludicrous. Post 911 the Pentagon vaccinated 40, 000 people for smallpox, of which 1000 had adverse reactions including 1 death. The program was stopped, .. read... Times mag for the article. Vaccinations aren't harmful ? Gimme a break. Try telling the family of the deceased that vaccinations are not harmful. Fundenberg study over a 10 year period showed a 9x increase in Alzhiemer's for people receiving 5 consecutive flu shots and recently the CDC came out saying they realize the vaccinations are pretty much worthless BUT people should get them anyways despite the contaimenents such as mercury, anti freeze etc, etc, etc (eFluxMedia.com 02-12-08) Hmm could this be harmful to me? Pediatric cancer increasing exponentially.... wonder why... seems to coincide pretty congruently with the rise in number of vaccinations hmmmmm... Ever wonder why the government is attempting to seal all the records of the vaccination/compensation victims? http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?125225. Bird flu? Big scare... but guess what Rumsfields Pharma got 200 mil for vaccinations that were unproven and not needed Japan went from infant mortality rate 17th in the world to #1 by passing a law that children youngrer than 2 could not be vaccinated. Ridiculous to not consider the dangers. Does the benefit outweigh the risks... that should be a decision, not a mandate. Should the vaccinators be held accountable when things go wrong ....you betcha. Danno Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i’m Talkathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Wiggle room. Lots of wiggle room in this country. , DC, DABCO, LLC > > The conclusion was it 'aggravated' not caused the autism : > > > > 'A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries caused by > vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying illness > that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was " significantly > aggravated " by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her > family should therefore be compensated.' > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index. ht > m > > > > s. fuchs dc > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C. > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM > oregondc > Subject: Vaccines > > > > Hi Doc's > > > > Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court > of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism > way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder > why? > > > > Dr B > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 This was a victory for the child. They found a relationship. They could have said no relationship but they didn’t .. It didn’t ‘cause’ it but it ‘aggravated’ it so now the child can get compensation. Without knowing any of the facts we can’t say anything else. We fight these battles in auto cases all the time. This is a victory ! s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of hillcrestchiro Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Vaccines Wiggle room. Lots of wiggle room in this country. , DC, DABCO, LLC > > The conclusion was it 'aggravated' not caused the autism : > > > > 'A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries caused by > vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying illness > that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was " significantly > aggravated " by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her > family should therefore be compensated.' > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index. ht > m > > > > s. fuchs dc > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C. > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM > oregondc > Subject: Vaccines > > > > Hi Doc's > > > > Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court > of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism > way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder > why? > > > > Dr B > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I agree that it is a victory for the child but by " aggravating " a " pre-existing condition " they, in effect, created " wiggle room " to keep from opening the door all the way. Like I said, there is a lot of wiggle room in this country. Just look at the insurance industry or big pharma. , DC, DABCO, LLC > > > > The conclusion was it 'aggravated' not caused the autism : > > > > > > > > 'A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries > caused by > > vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying > illness > > that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was " significantly > > aggravated " by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that > her > > family should therefore be compensated.' > > > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index. > <http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index ..> > > ht > > m > > > > > > > > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: <mailto:% 40> > [mailto: <mailto:% 40> ] > > On > > Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C. > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM > > oregondc > > Subject: Vaccines > > > > > > > > Hi Doc's > > > > > > > > Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the > Court > > of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's > autism > > way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I > wonder > > why? > > > > > > > > Dr B > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 What does it say when such a small concession of semantics is considered such a 'big win'? Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:59:17 -0700Subject: RE: Vaccines This was a victory for the child. They found a relationship. They could have said no relationship but they didn’t . It didn’t ‘cause’ it but it ‘aggravated’ it so now the child can get compensation. Without knowing any of the facts we can’t say anything else. We fight these battles in auto cases all the time. This is a victory ! s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of hillcrestchiroSent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Vaccines Wiggle room. Lots of wiggle room in this country. , DC, DABCO, LLC>> The conclusion was it 'aggravated' not caused the autism :> > > > 'A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries caused by> vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying illness> that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was "significantly> aggravated" by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her> family should therefore be compensated.'> > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index.ht> m> > > > s. fuchs dc> > > > ________________________________> > From: [mailto: ] On> Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C.> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM> oregondc> Subject: Vaccines> > > > Hi Doc's> > > > Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court> of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism> way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder> why?> > > > Dr B> It’s a talkathon – but it’s not just talk. Check out the i’m Talkathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Well said Dan, Keep in mind that mandated vaccines violate the basic tenets of informed consent. The right that everyone has and that right is to say no to any medical procedure that carriers with it a risk. An individuals right to autonomy and self determination cannot be trump by the many who would have that individual succumb to this or that medical procedure in the name of the "common good." The sacrifice of the "few" in hopes of benefiting the "many" is bioethical wrong and has historically been rejected time and time again and for very good reason. Vern Saboe Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 What do you say when you get called to testify in an auto case – do you stretch things when you know darn well there were contributing underlying pre-existing factors or do you say straight up there were underlying factors and the auto accident aggravated the underlying condition ? I know the answer. The panel found a relationship that the vaccine aggravated an underlying condition – are they liars ? This is huge for the child and family because now she can be compensated. s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:05 PM Sharron Fuchs; oregondc Subject: RE: Vaccines What does it say when such a small concession of semantics is considered such a 'big win'? Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: sharronf@... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:59:17 -0700 Subject: RE: Vaccines This was a victory for the child. They found a relationship. They could have said no relationship but they didn’t . It didn’t ‘cause’ it but it ‘aggravated’ it so now the child can get compensation. Without knowing any of the facts we can’t say anything else. We fight these battles in auto cases all the time. This is a victory ! s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of hillcrestchiro Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Vaccines Wiggle room. Lots of wiggle room in this country. , DC, DABCO, LLC > > The conclusion was it 'aggravated' not caused the autism : > > > > 'A federal program intended to compensate victims of injuries caused by > vaccines concluded last November that Hannah Poling's underlying illness > that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was " significantly > aggravated " by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her > family should therefore be compensated.' > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/06/vaccines.autism/index. ht > m > > > > s. fuchs dc > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of D Beebe, D.C. > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:16 AM > oregondc > Subject: Vaccines > > > > Hi Doc's > > > > Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court > of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism > way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder > why? > > > > Dr B > It’s a talkathon – but it’s not just talk. Check out the i’m Talkathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Not exactly, one can refuse on religious and medical reasoning . Because of the ‘common good’ of vaccines ( not necessarily my opinion, although I am not opposed to vaccination) came the understanding that some harm was caused and thus the Compensation Act was formed. s. fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Vern Saboe Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 5:51 AM oregondc; D Beebe, D.C. Subject: Re: Vaccines Well said Dan, Keep in mind that mandated vaccines violate the basic tenets of informed consent. The right that everyone has and that right is to say no to any medical procedure that carriers with it a risk. An individuals right to autonomy and self determination cannot be trump by the many who would have that individual succumb to this or that medical procedure in the name of the " common good. " The sacrifice of the " few " in hopes of benefiting the " many " is bioethical wrong and has historically been rejected time and time again and for very good reason. Vern Saboe Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Well not exactly, First your correct Oregon has both a medical and religious exemption however the medical exemption must come from a medical physician not the parents which is very, very rare to obtain by a consumer/parent. The medical exemption was also struck down by the US Supreme Court many years ago as I recall and so the safest (pun intended) route is for parents to claim a religious exemption. However with that said currently parents and children/young adults are not being told about this exemption they are only being told that if they don't get their "required shots" they cannot attend school/college....and of course their is the wonderful comments during the "well baby" visits to the MD, "you don't want ny to die of whopping cough do you???" Vern Saboe Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 We have always been honorary “Christian Scientists for a Day” when we signed the “I don’t want my kid to have vaccines” waiver for school. Now they are countering this with a requirement that you prove that you are of that religion. E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com From: Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 12:21:06 -0700 oregondc < >, Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...> Subject: Re: Vaccines Well not exactly, First your correct Oregon has both a medical and religious exemption however the medical exemption must come from a medical physician not the parents which is very, very rare to obtain by a consumer/parent. The medical exemption was also struck down by the US Supreme Court many years ago as I recall and so the safest (pun intended) route is for parents to claim a religious exemption. However with that said currently parents and children/young adults are not being told about this exemption they are only being told that if they don't get their " required shots " they cannot attend school/college....and of course their is the wonderful comments during the " well baby " visits to the MD, " you don't want ny to die of whopping cough do you??? " Vern Saboe [From OregonDCs] Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Most people are smart enough to find out the correct information especially if they object to begin with. Some people have no objection at all and I wouldn’t criticize them for their decision. Here is the State of Oregon link : http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/oregon.htm s. fuchs dc From: Vern Saboe [mailto:vsaboe@...] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:21 PM oregondc; Sharron Fuchs Subject: Re: Vaccines Well not exactly, First your correct Oregon has both a medical and religious exemption however the medical exemption must come from a medical physician not the parents which is very, very rare to obtain by a consumer/parent. The medical exemption was also struck down by the US Supreme Court many years ago as I recall and so the safest (pun intended) route is for parents to claim a religious exemption. However with that said currently parents and children/young adults are not being told about this exemption they are only being told that if they don't get their " required shots " they cannot attend school/college....and of course their is the wonderful comments during the " well baby " visits to the MD, " you don't want ny to die of whopping cough do you??? " Vern Saboe Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Most people have absolutely no clue and subsequently provide "blind consent" rather than making a true informed choice. Vern Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I don’t believe that. Who knows the truth , (as in ‘true’ informed consent) ? Us, do we know the truth ? Many people, especially those in the Wellness world, are darn smart. And some of those smart people allow themselves and their children to be vaccinated. s.fuchs dc From: Vern Saboe [mailto:vsaboe@...] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:03 PM oregondc; Sharron Fuchs Subject: Re: Vaccines Most people have absolutely no clue and subsequently provide " blind consent " rather than making a true informed choice. Vern Vaccines Hi Doc's Anyone know that the independent Office of Special Masters of the Court of Federal Appeals conceded that vaccines caused Hannah Poling's autism way back in Apr this year. Didn't really make the headlines... I wonder why? Dr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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