vaccines

[Guest guest]

On Aug 26, 2010, at 9:58 PM, sunrose101@... wrote: Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1 We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the numerous others were unknown then too. Prayer is the most helpful. Francine My friend in H.S. would disagree with you. Her brother got German measles (rubella) and ended up brain damaged from the fever. We lost a lot of kids to whooping cough when I was a child, not to mention the polio epidemic that filled Babylands (children's cemeteries) all over the country and left the little girl down the street from me on crutches and braces. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE MMR VACCINE THAT CAUSES AUTISM. I cannot stress this enough. The British dr. who said this was found to have fudged his research to give just that exact result, that it caused autism. He lied. And the rumor has gone viral in the community of parents of autistic kids and typical kids, and just will not die. Not having a child vaccinated puts not only that child at risk, but every child he/she comes into contact with at risk as well. A person thus decides not only for his/her own child, but also for all other children his/her own child meets. Smallpox was eradicated because *everyone* got the vaccination against it. Measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, and myriad other diseases will suffer the same fate.....but only if everyone, every single person, gets their kids vaccinated against these killer diseases.I will continue to say this until it becomes no longer necessary to do so. Annie annie@...---A person should be like a watch--open-faced, busy hands, well-regulated, and full of good works. --- Roy B. Zuck

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

How did I know You'd disagree? Don't You remember the polio epidemic caused by vaccines? And did You read my experience with polio? And watching vaccine regression?

I find the repetitive denial of the experience of thousands of parents who have watched their children regress after vaccination, to be insensitive at best, and deliberate, blatant lying at worst.

Have You ever looked at the ingredients in vaccines? Wondered where all the aborted babiess go? Thought about the effects of injecting aluminum into newborn babies, children, and adults, not to mention the other 'ingredients' in vaccines? Do You know what an aluminum adjuvant is and why it is there? And I don't need to mention mercury.

I respectfully suggest that parents put 'vaccine ingredients' in search and read the list before going ahead and vaccinating. Be informed.

And for the strong at heart, there is this brief film, lest You think that these things can't be true:

This is painful to watch, so if You do, be ready. This is not so much about vaccination as the callous use of children and adults ... I don't even know how to finish the sentence. Vaccination is simply more widespread and 'milder' (if You can say there are degrees to all this) than the subjects in this video.

Sincerely,

Francine

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

Re: vaccines

On Aug 26, 2010, at 9:58 PM, sunrose101@... wrote:

Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1

We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the numerous others were unknown then too.

Prayer is the most helpful.

Francine

My friend in H.S. would disagree with you. Her brother got German measles (rubella) and ended up brain damaged from the fever. We lost a lot of kids to whooping cough when I was a child, not to mention the polio epidemic that filled Babylands (children's cemeteries) all over the country and left the little girl down the street from me on crutches and braces. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE MMR VACCINE THAT CAUSES AUTISM. I cannot stress this enough. The British dr. who said this was found to have fudged his research to give just that exact result, that it caused autism. He lied. And the rumor has gone viral in the community of parents of autistic kids and typical kids, and just will not die. Not having a child vaccinated puts not only that child at risk, but every child he/she comes into contact with at risk as well. A person thus decides not only for his/her own child, but also for all other children his/her own child meets. Smallpox was eradicated because *everyone* got the vaccination against it. Measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, and myriad other diseases will suffer the same fate.....but only if everyone, every single person, gets their kids vaccinated against these killer diseases.

I will continue to say this until it becomes no longer necessary to do so.

Annie annie@...

---

A person should be like a watch--open-faced, busy hands, well-regulated, and full of good works. --- Roy B. Zuck

[Guest guest]

Opinions were asked for. And a range of opinions can be helpful. From personal experience I feel advising vaccinations are shaky ground, given the experience of thousands of parents.

A Shot In The Dark was written long before the autism epidemic, so this is not a new story, just horribly more prevalent.

Sincerely,

Francine

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

vaccines

oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5 and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any feedback would be appreciated?

[Guest guest]

Opinions were asked for. And a range of opinions can be helpful. From personal experience I feel advising vaccinations are shaky ground, given the experience of thousands of parents.

A Shot In The Dark was written long before the autism epidemic, so this is not a new story, just horribly more prevalent.

Sincerely,

Francine

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

vaccines

oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5 and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any feedback would be appreciated?

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I know there is alot of controversy about to vaccine or not to. I have

> followed some of McCarthy apperances on tv and her most recent was

> about the resignition of the director of the CDC and that she believes

> that we are vaccinating our kids to soon. She was not opposed to the

> whole vaccination, she feels that there is hard evidence to support

> waiting to vaccinate. I was wondering on anyones thoughts to this. She

> talked about a safer vaccine schedule, has anyone done this. Just trying

> to get some feedback.

>

> I have a son who has autism, he is now 6 years old. He is making great

> progress but still in his autism world. I just recently had my third

> child who is now 2 months. I am hesitant to vaccinate him so early, if

> there is more and more evidence support the link between autism and

> vaccines.

>

jenny mcarthy is not an expert on autism she is an actress.anything she says

should be taken with a grain of salt..remember she is trying to sell books

[Guest guest]

On Aug 27, 2010, at 12:09 PM, sunrose101@... wrote: Dear Annie, How did I know You'd disagree? Don't You remember the polio epidemic caused by vaccines? And did You read my experience with polio? And watching vaccine regression? 1. I remember the polio epidemic *before* vaccines. 2. You were lucky. 3. I believe that some kids are sensitive to vaccines, but not to the point of autism. Vaccine sensitivity does not equal autism. Autism does evince itself around the same time as kids get their basic vaccines, though. This can cause a parent looking for answers to see cause and effect where there is none. I find the repetitive denial of the experience of thousands of parents who have watched their children regress after vaccination, to be insensitive at best, and deliberate, blatant lying at worst. Sticks and stones, and all that. My two never were vaccinated (one because there were no MMR vaccines and she's not autistic, one who got the diseases...but was diagnosed long before then as autistic). And I hold that dying from a preventable disease is much, much worse than a dx of autism. Have You ever looked at the ingredients in vaccines? Wondered where all the aborted babiess go? Thought about the effects of injecting aluminum into newborn babies, children, and adults, not to mention the other 'ingredients' in vaccines? Do You know what an aluminum adjuvant is and why it is there? And I don't need to mention mercury. I researched vaccine compounds a few years ago, when this brouhaha came up. And, even though I don't think you were here yet, I posted what I found. I am not in the habit of writing about things about which I am uninformed. Aborted babies is a straw man, and I will not get into that argument save to say that I am pro-choice and that hopefully aborted fetuses go to stem cell research and applications, of which I am in favor. Aluminum adjuvants (there are two) in vaccines, added to boost the immune system and make the vaccine more effective, has been found harmless, unless you're a mouse, ( Offic, MD, Rita K. Jew, PharmD in Pediatrics Vol. 112 No. 6 December 2003, pp. 1394-1397). In fact, according to the studies you'd be more in danger from egg proteins than from adjuvants. And please don't mention mercury. The British study on the adverse effects of mercury (i.e. thimerosol) in the MMR vaccine was proven false because the researcher fudged his results, and mercury hasn't been in childhood vaccines since 1999. I respectfully suggest that parents put 'vaccine ingredients' in search and read the list before going ahead and vaccinating. Be informed. Better yet, put "aluminum adjuvant in vaccines" in google, and look only at the scientific study results, both abstracts and articles. And for the strong at heart, there is this brief film, lest You think that these things can't be true:

This is painful to watch, so if You do, be ready. This is not so much about vaccination as the callous use of children and adults ... I don't even know how to finish the sentence. Vaccination is simply more widespread and 'milder' (if You can say there are degrees to all this) than the subjects in this video.I've seen a dancing baby on youtube, but that doesn't mean it's real. I've seen singing dogs there, but that doesn't mean all dogs sing. And just so you know, I'm a Presbyterian Elder (we are fully ordained), sing in my church's praise band, sponsor a dance for autistic, developmentally challenged and intellectually challenged adults as a personal ministry, cook for my church's Alpha course, am a graduate of all four Disciple courses, and haven't missed a Sunday in years. Annie annie@...---A person should be like a watch--open-faced, busy hands, well-regulated, and full of good works. --- Roy B. Zuck

[Guest guest]

On Aug 27, 2010, at 12:09 PM, sunrose101@... wrote: Dear Annie, How did I know You'd disagree? Don't You remember the polio epidemic caused by vaccines? And did You read my experience with polio? And watching vaccine regression? 1. I remember the polio epidemic *before* vaccines. 2. You were lucky. 3. I believe that some kids are sensitive to vaccines, but not to the point of autism. Vaccine sensitivity does not equal autism. Autism does evince itself around the same time as kids get their basic vaccines, though. This can cause a parent looking for answers to see cause and effect where there is none. I find the repetitive denial of the experience of thousands of parents who have watched their children regress after vaccination, to be insensitive at best, and deliberate, blatant lying at worst. Sticks and stones, and all that. My two never were vaccinated (one because there were no MMR vaccines and she's not autistic, one who got the diseases...but was diagnosed long before then as autistic). And I hold that dying from a preventable disease is much, much worse than a dx of autism. Have You ever looked at the ingredients in vaccines? Wondered where all the aborted babiess go? Thought about the effects of injecting aluminum into newborn babies, children, and adults, not to mention the other 'ingredients' in vaccines? Do You know what an aluminum adjuvant is and why it is there? And I don't need to mention mercury. I researched vaccine compounds a few years ago, when this brouhaha came up. And, even though I don't think you were here yet, I posted what I found. I am not in the habit of writing about things about which I am uninformed. Aborted babies is a straw man, and I will not get into that argument save to say that I am pro-choice and that hopefully aborted fetuses go to stem cell research and applications, of which I am in favor. Aluminum adjuvants (there are two) in vaccines, added to boost the immune system and make the vaccine more effective, has been found harmless, unless you're a mouse, ( Offic, MD, Rita K. Jew, PharmD in Pediatrics Vol. 112 No. 6 December 2003, pp. 1394-1397). In fact, according to the studies you'd be more in danger from egg proteins than from adjuvants. And please don't mention mercury. The British study on the adverse effects of mercury (i.e. thimerosol) in the MMR vaccine was proven false because the researcher fudged his results, and mercury hasn't been in childhood vaccines since 1999. I respectfully suggest that parents put 'vaccine ingredients' in search and read the list before going ahead and vaccinating. Be informed. Better yet, put "aluminum adjuvant in vaccines" in google, and look only at the scientific study results, both abstracts and articles. And for the strong at heart, there is this brief film, lest You think that these things can't be true:

This is painful to watch, so if You do, be ready. This is not so much about vaccination as the callous use of children and adults ... I don't even know how to finish the sentence. Vaccination is simply more widespread and 'milder' (if You can say there are degrees to all this) than the subjects in this video.I've seen a dancing baby on youtube, but that doesn't mean it's real. I've seen singing dogs there, but that doesn't mean all dogs sing. And just so you know, I'm a Presbyterian Elder (we are fully ordained), sing in my church's praise band, sponsor a dance for autistic, developmentally challenged and intellectually challenged adults as a personal ministry, cook for my church's Alpha course, am a graduate of all four Disciple courses, and haven't missed a Sunday in years. Annie annie@...---A person should be like a watch--open-faced, busy hands, well-regulated, and full of good works. --- Roy B. Zuck

[Guest guest]

Yes I remember that book " A Shot in the Dark " it is pretty old. I got

interested in shots and read it not so much about autism but because my

son Marty suddenly developed epilepsy after his series of three doses

of the DPT, learned information that the P in the shot can cause

uncontrollable epilepsy like he has had all of his life. P is for

Pertussis or whooping cough. We tried to file for the federal

compensation act thingy that I think is still in place but since he did

not have a high fever the night of the shot or the other criteria. All

I know is we could not control the confounded seizures with anything

his whole life, none of the drugs worked and over time he got the

autism, etc....

I notice now when a child gets the DPT they say something like, " Do you

have a history of seizures in your family? " stuff like that, I also have

heard statistics that it only happens to one in 300,000 children...sigh,

not even sure if he is that one.

It is really sad and tragic if it is the case that he got his problems

from the vaccination, but I have learned that there is a risk to

everything in life, and a greater risk to him if he got whooping

cough... I think I had it as a kid but didn't die as many did. My mom

told me yesterday that when we were growing up nobody had health

insurance and were never sick, well at least my three brothers and I

were not, but that couldn't be entirely true since I did have to get my

tonsils out, had a terrible case of measles and had to stay in my

bedroom with the shades shut for days, used to think the sun would make

you blind when you had the measles. But we all lived with no bad

affects, again the more fortunate statistic.

Oh yes and polio, they did not have the shot yet when I was a kid and

when my legs ached at night my parents freaked, now we know that is when

a child is growing too fast...thousands of children died from polio and

got life long disabilities like living in an iron lung forever.

When I have learned over time is simply mature wisdom. My son Jeff is a

mathematician and he has taught me this; Study the probabilities,

chances are very good your child will be fine from the shots and

certainly they will be in much better shape than they would be in not

getting the diseases that the vaccines protect against. Hmm, kind of a

run on sentence but you get my drift.

I don't know anything that would be worse than your child getting a

disease and maybe dying or getting permanent disabilities from a virus

that could have been avoided. Because you are going to have fear either

way you look at it...have to look at what are your best chances.

I must admit I have not always been so stable and balance on this and

other things also, such as I did not get the flu shot myself till two

years ago, for me, my husband, or my disabled son, but now we get them

and the swine flu last year, and my son has the pneumonia shot also.

Your always going to hear the worst case scenarios on pretty much every

thing, but a life cannot be lived by fear but must be lived by faith,

that is the way I choose to go with it...all of my grandkids have their

vaccinations in spite of having an uncle with seizures.....

Thank you for letting me share, just some things to think on. I know it

is tough to be a parent, lots of tough decisions to make, but one best

not run amok with paranoia and fear about things...many that cannot be

proven.

Carolyn in OR ;0)

sunrose101@... wrote:

>

>

> Opinions were asked for. And a range of opinions can be helpful.

> From personal experience I feel advising vaccinations are shaky

> ground, given the experience of thousands of parents.

>

> A Shot In The Dark was written long before the autism epidemic, so

> this is not a new story, just horribly more prevalent.

>

> Sincerely,

> Francine

>

> Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

> Spirit with Spirit can speak.

> Closer is Love than breathing,

> Nearer than hands and feet.

>

> (with appreciation for Tennyson)

>

> vaccines

>

>

> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> feedback would be appreciated?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, me again. I think I got over my fears about things when my son Marty

had a collapsed lung a few years ago from pneumonia and he had to have

about one of the worst surgeries there is to fix his lung, the doctor

had to go in through his back and scrape all the scar tissue off from

around it so it could work again...otherwise it would have stayed

collapsed and he would have died. Every time I had to sign a consent

form for this or that in order to save his life I just had to do it and

not let fear rule me.

He had to have blood transfusions and when I signed the consent form for

them they said in " rare " cases people could have severe allergic

reactions to other people's blood! I didn't know that, on and on it went

and didn't stop for several years, many trips in and out of the

hospital. The last time about a year ago he had it so bad, he had MRSA

in his lung and had to have 10 days of IV infusions of the strongest

antibiotics known to man, and he lived and his tests today show no more

MRSA....

I am just saying life cannot be lived by fear, it doesn't do any good

for anybody and so you might as well let it go. Life should be lived by

faith! There really is a God in Heaven and He loves us, and He will

guide us and however the outcome we still have no power of our own. That

is what everybody is REALLY afraid of.

Just had to add that, the fear thing. I think most of the worries

mothers have are because of fear and fear is tormenting, so a person has

to overcome it...somehow someway. We went through the storm and through

the fire and we are still here, through the above trials and many

others, so many others.....makes me tired to remember them.

But my son sits peacefully in his chair, all is well in our world, and

we are going to have dinner. My daughter made roast beef last night and

gave us the leftovers...woo hoo. so we'll sit down to dinner in front of

the Yankees game, what could be better?

Carolyn again.....;o)

Carolyn wrote:

>

>

> Yes I remember that book " A Shot in the Dark " it is pretty old. I got

> interested in shots and read it not so much about autism but because my

> son Marty suddenly developed epilepsy after his series of three doses

> of the DPT, learned information that the P in the shot can cause

> uncontrollable epilepsy like he has had all of his life. P is for

> Pertussis or whooping cough. We tried to file for the federal

> compensation act thingy that I think is still in place but since he did

> not have a high fever the night of the shot or the other criteria. All

> I know is we could not control the confounded seizures with anything

> his whole life, none of the drugs worked and over time he got the

> autism, etc....

>

> I notice now when a child gets the DPT they say something like, " Do you

> have a history of seizures in your family? " stuff like that, I also have

> heard statistics that it only happens to one in 300,000 children...sigh,

> not even sure if he is that one.

>

> It is really sad and tragic if it is the case that he got his problems

> from the vaccination, but I have learned that there is a risk to

> everything in life, and a greater risk to him if he got whooping

> cough... I think I had it as a kid but didn't die as many did. My mom

> told me yesterday that when we were growing up nobody had health

> insurance and were never sick, well at least my three brothers and I

> were not, but that couldn't be entirely true since I did have to get my

> tonsils out, had a terrible case of measles and had to stay in my

> bedroom with the shades shut for days, used to think the sun would make

> you blind when you had the measles. But we all lived with no bad

> affects, again the more fortunate statistic.

>

> Oh yes and polio, they did not have the shot yet when I was a kid and

> when my legs ached at night my parents freaked, now we know that is when

> a child is growing too fast...thousands of children died from polio and

> got life long disabilities like living in an iron lung forever.

>

> When I have learned over time is simply mature wisdom. My son Jeff is a

> mathematician and he has taught me this; Study the probabilities,

> chances are very good your child will be fine from the shots and

> certainly they will be in much better shape than they would be in not

> getting the diseases that the vaccines protect against. Hmm, kind of a

> run on sentence but you get my drift.

>

> I don't know anything that would be worse than your child getting a

> disease and maybe dying or getting permanent disabilities from a virus

> that could have been avoided. Because you are going to have fear either

> way you look at it...have to look at what are your best chances.

>

> I must admit I have not always been so stable and balance on this and

> other things also, such as I did not get the flu shot myself till two

> years ago, for me, my husband, or my disabled son, but now we get them

> and the swine flu last year, and my son has the pneumonia shot also.

>

> Your always going to hear the worst case scenarios on pretty much every

> thing, but a life cannot be lived by fear but must be lived by faith,

> that is the way I choose to go with it...all of my grandkids have their

> vaccinations in spite of having an uncle with seizures.....

>

> Thank you for letting me share, just some things to think on. I know it

> is tough to be a parent, lots of tough decisions to make, but one best

> not run amok with paranoia and fear about things...many that cannot be

> proven.

>

> Carolyn in OR ;0)

>

> sunrose101@... <mailto:sunrose101%40aol.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Opinions were asked for. And a range of opinions can be helpful.

> > From personal experience I feel advising vaccinations are shaky

> > ground, given the experience of thousands of parents.

> >

> > A Shot In The Dark was written long before the autism epidemic, so

> > this is not a new story, just horribly more prevalent.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Francine

> >

> > Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

> > Spirit with Spirit can speak.

> > Closer is Love than breathing,

> > Nearer than hands and feet.

> >

> > (with appreciation for Tennyson)

> >

> > vaccines

> >

> >

> > oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> > youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> > that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> > and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> > feedback would be appreciated?

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was thinking also that if a lot of children didn't get the

vaccinations when they were children then THEY could get these diseases

and pass them on to their babies, because time goes so fast a

generation could already be doing that! It would be really easy as you

can become a mother quite young.

I have seen ads on TV saying mothers are now giving their babies

whooping cough! They are saying all mothers need the shot. Which makes

me think, my daughter Tara has bee sick for a month and is on her second

dose of antibiotic and she doesn't seem to be getting much better, she

is 40, I know she had her shots as a baby but who knows does she have

whooping cough, she coughs so bad she throws up. Maybe her shots wore

off....anyway thankfully ALL three of her children are vaccinated.

Something to think about if mothers don't take their kids in to get

their shots, then they will NEVER get them....and you are putting your

grandchildren at risk.

Carolyn

tsm919@... wrote:

>

>

> This is shaky ground and advising someone to skip a vaccination is not

> necessarily the answer. It is also advice that can be medically

> dangerous. I had the MMR as a child and am fine. All 3 of my children

> had it also. The problem w not vaccinating is that the unvaccinated

> puts everyone else at risk. These diseases are not eradicated and for

> many children can cause serious complications and even be fatal

> especially measles, mumps and rubella. We've seen a resurgence in

> whooping cough recently. These diseases are still alive and well and

> we need to protect our babies from them.

>

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *From: * sunrose101@...

> *Sender: * Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> *Date: *Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:58:50 -0400

> **<Autism and Aspergers Treatment >

> *Reply* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> *Subject: *Re: vaccines

>

>

>

> Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1

>

> We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the

> numerous others were unknown then too.

>

> Prayer is the most helpful.

>

> Francine

>

> Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

> Spirit with Spirit can speak.

> Closer is Love than breathing,

> Nearer than hands and feet.

>

> (with appreciation for Tennyson)

>

> vaccines

>

>

> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> feedback would be appreciated?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here! Here! Marilyn, I agree with your post, like your attitude. I was

thinking that Scarlet Fever is caused by the strep infection isn't it,

when not treated with antibiotics it can go to the heart valves. My son

Marty used to get strep throat as a kid, he was a carrier so when he

started to get sick I had to make the doctor do a throat culture because

he didn't have the usual symptoms yet. I just knew it. More than once he

had to go on amoxicillin.

But here is something to add to the mix, I got allergic to amoxicillin a

few years ago, and had anaphalatic shock and had to go to the hospital

in an ambulance! Shish! So don't take that anymore needless to say, was

even afraid of taking any antibiotic ever again but finally had to and

conquered my fear, it was hard but a friend of mine got bacteria in her

brain and then in her heart from an abscessed tooth and was left with

seizures so when I needed clindamycin for my tooth I took it, more than

once...

I agree about the immigrants, we have hundreds of them here in Oregon.

We have a law they have to be vaccinated before they can go to school

though thank goodness!

I do wonder what in the world causes autism and wish the reason would be

found, probably environmental of some kind, who knows at this stage.

Plastics? Won't know till scientists figure it out, I mean scientists

not people with really really strong opinions.....they think the louder

they shout at others the truer it gets but I have a news flash, I went

to college once and in a class I took on nutrition I learned it was NOT

against the law to LIE. A lot of health food propaganda and all sorts of

other propaganda it is NOT against the law to spread!

My tuition was worth it learning that one thing. Really I did believe if

it was written quoting doctors, etc. then it was true.

NOT.

Carolyn

marilyn wrote:

> We got the MMR, we just didn't get it as one vaccine. I'm 50 and I got

> Measles, Mumps and Reubella Vaccines as a child. They just weren't

> lumped in one shot. But the vaccines certainly existed.

>

> And prayer does nothing to keep a child safe from infectious disease.

> God helps those who help themselves. I see His hand in giving us these

> vaccines to help protect our children against childhood diseases that

> used to maim and kill millions (I remember iron lungs for those who

> had polio, I remember when Scarlet Fever killed, when the Mumps could

> lead to deafness or loss of life). There is no such thing as a

> " normal " childhood disease or a " safe " childhood disease. Vaccines are

> important. WHEN to give them and how to space them is entirely

> different, but it's stupid to throw the baby out with the bathwater,

> so to speak. Why not just not get it? Because children still can and

> do die from these entirely preventable childhood diseases. If you want

> to risk your childs life, that's your choice. I hope they don't pay

> the price for your decision. Given the increased rate of immigrants in

> to the USA, our exposure to these diseases is more, not less, than 50

> years ago, since many of those moving here were not vaccinated.

>

> We all make the best choices we can. Knowing diseases can maim and

> kill vs vaccination against it? No brainer.

>

> BTW I have twins. They got vaccinated at the same time. One is

> Aspergers, one isn't. I don't regret vaccinating either of them. (I

> also don't believe vaccines are the root cause of autism--I just think

> people want a boogie man to blame, and they've picked that one).

>

> YMMV.

> Marilyn

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *From:* " sunrose101@... " <sunrose101@...>

> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> *Sent:* Thu, August 26, 2010 11:58:50 PM

> *Subject:* Re: vaccines

>

> Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1

> We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the

> numerous others were unknown then too.

> Prayer is the most helpful.

> Francine

>

>

>

> vaccines

>

> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> feedback would be appreciated?

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Carolyn,

Thank You for this thoughtful post.

i too was quite sick with the measles, with a cloth over the lamp. I remember how the lamp looked quite well.

The thing about this whole discussion is that the beliefs about sickness and the supposed protection from vaccinations rests on Pasteur's theory of germs causing sickness, a theory he recanted on his deathbod.

It is whether we are healthy or not that determines whether we appear to catch something from somebody else.

Have You looked at the list of vaccine ingredients?

For many of us -- regardless of autism -- the vaccines are far worse than the illness, so it's a different point of view.

We have had so many wonderful healings, as well as protection from illness that drugs feel foreign. I have not had a drug (aspirin being the last thing I took) since 1972. That is close to 40 years, so I know that I have not needed drugs for heath and vitality.

It's not about fear, but about a confidence in good.

with Love,

Francine

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

vaccines

>

>

> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> feedback would be appreciated?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Who are the 'experts' on autism but the parents. She's got a better track record with her son than the doctors do.

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

Re: vaccines

>

>

> I know there is alot of controversy about to vaccine or not to. I have

> followed some of McCarthy apperances on tv and her most recent was

> about the resignition of the director of the CDC and that she believes

> that we are vaccinating our kids to soon. She was not opposed to the

> whole vaccination, she feels that there is hard evidence to support

> waiting to vaccinate. I was wondering on anyones thoughts to this. She

> talked about a safer vaccine schedule, has anyone done this. Just trying

> to get some feedback.

>

> I have a son who has autism, he is now 6 years old. He is making great

> progress but still in his autism world. I just recently had my third

> child who is now 2 months. I am hesitant to vaccinate him so early, if

> there is more and more evidence support the link between autism and

> vaccines.

>

jenny mcarthy is not an expert on autism she is an actress.anything she says should be taken with a grain of salt..remember she is trying to sell books

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

So I was just lucky not to get polio and mono. Well I must be the luckiest person in the world since I've also had major healings of multiple broken bones -- twice -- with no painkillers, drugs, or intervention, except prayer, and no infection with the bad dogbite one. And these and the polio and mono experiences are only a few of my experiences.

In fact I could -- and probably will -- write my next book on all my good ,,'luck' -- for which I am profoundly grateful.

Only it really isn't luck at all, but a wonderful Help that is always at hand for all of us, all the time. For everyone. I was guided so beautifully to help my daughter that people used to ask me how I knew to do this or that that was working, to which I would find myself replying "God."

There is a saying that a closed fist cannot receive. This is true of a closed mind too.

I figure You must be speaking of Offit, also known as the most well paid spokesperson for the vaccine industry. Hmm. Think he might have a vested interest?

If You feel vaccines are so good, why weren't your kids vaccinated? The mmr isn't the only vaccination.

Unvaccinated people don't have to die of a disease; again, I'm referring You to Pasteur's words on the 'germ theory' he had so vigorously promulgated.

I am glad You are so active in your church, and am sure You are a great help to many. And being grounded in a religion that grew from wonderful God healings, why do You dismiss them as 'luck'?

Healings are wonderful, and show the loving Help that is always at hand.

with Love,

Francine

Speak with Him Thou for He hearest.

Spirit with Spirit can speak.

Closer is Love than breathing,

Nearer than hands and feet.

(with appreciation for Tennyson)

Re: vaccines

On Aug 27, 2010, at 12:09 PM, sunrose101@... wrote:

Dear Annie,

How did I know You'd disagree? Don't You remember the polio epidemic caused by vaccines? And did You read my experience with polio? And watching vaccine regression?

1. I remember the polio epidemic *before* vaccines. 2. You were lucky. 3. I believe that some kids are sensitive to vaccines, but not to the point of autism. Vaccine sensitivity does not equal autism. Autism does evince itself around the same time as kids get their basic vaccines, though. This can cause a parent looking for answers to see cause and effect where there is none.

I find the repetitive denial of the experience of thousands of parents who have watched their children regress after vaccination, to be insensitive at best, and deliberate, blatant lying at worst.

Sticks and stones, and all that. My two never were vaccinated (one because there were no MMR vaccin es and she's not autistic, one who got the diseases...but was diagnosed long before then as autistic). And I hold that dying from a preventable disease is much, much worse than a dx of autism.

Have You ever looked at the ingredients in vaccines? Wondered where all the aborted babiess go? Thought about the effects of injecting aluminum into newborn babies, children, and adults, not to mention the other 'ingredients' in vaccines? Do You know what an aluminum adjuvant is and why it is there? And I don't need to mention mercury.

I researched vaccine compounds a fe w years ago, when this brouhaha came up. And, even though I don't think you were here yet, I posted what I found. I am not in the habit of writing about things about which I am uninformed. Aborted babies is a straw man, and I will not get into that argument save to say that I am pro-choice and that hopefully aborted fetuses go to stem cell research and applications, of which I am in favor. Aluminum adjuvants (there are two) in vaccines, added to boost the immune system and make the vaccine more effective, has been found harmless, unless you're a mouse, ( Offic, MD, Rita K. Jew, PharmD in Pediatrics Vol. 112 No. 6 December 2003, pp. 1394-1397). In fact, according to the studies you'd be more in danger from egg proteins than from adjuvants. And please don't mention mercury. The British study on the adverse effects of mercury (i.e. thimerosol) in the MM R vaccine was proven false because the researcher fudged his results, and mercury hasn't been in childhood vaccines since 1999.

I respectfully suggest that parents put 'vaccine ingredients' in search and read the list before going ahead and vaccinating. Be informed.

Better yet, put "aluminum adjuvant in vaccines" in google, and look only at the scientific study results, both abstracts and articles.

And for the strong at heart, there is this brief film, lest You think that these things can't be true:

This is painful to watch, so if You do, be ready. This is not so much about vaccination as the callous use of children and adults ... I don't even know how to finish the sentence. Vaccination is simply more widespread and 'milder' (if You can say there are degrees to all this) than the subjects in this video.

I've seen a dancing baby on youtube, but that doesn't mean it's real. I've seen singing dogs there, but that doesn't mean all dogs sing.

And just so you know, I'm a Presbyterian Elder (we are fully ordained), sing in my church's praise band, sponsor a dance for autistic, developmental ly challenged and intellectually challenged adults as a personal ministry, cook for my church's Alpha course, am a graduate of all four Disciple courses, and haven't missed a Sunday in years.

Annie annie@...

---

A person should be like a watch--open-faced, busy hands, well-regulated, and full of good works. --- Roy B. Zuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carolyn ;-)There's a lot of propaganda out there, on both sides. The last place I'd trust for viable scientific information would be 99% of the websites in existence. People want something to blame. But focusing on one thing takes away the open mindedness of looking for real causes. Most of these websites have an agenda, often political, on both sides. Since I frankly don't trust 99% of anything coming out of the Relgious Right, I can discount a good proportion of it there. I think Christ as the most benevolent and compassionate of men and He must be horrified at what calls itself Christianity in too many cases these days. I see little benevolence and no compassion.No, I don't trust every word a doctor utters, no more than anyone else. I do trust that the majority of them

are hard working, studied their art and science, and want what is best for their patients. They are partners in health care. They know a lot. I know a lot. We work together to make educated decisions. I learned at a young age that medicine is often more art than science and educated guesses are mostly what we work with.I think environmental toxins combined with a paricualr DNA sequence are probably the root cause of much of what we now call Autism. I'm sure my husband would be diagnosed as HFA/Aspergers, so is it a wonder our son is? They are also both left-handed and have curly hair. Puberty is also onsetting very early in girls, do we blame vaccines for that? I think it's more likely the food supply. Are we supposed to stop eating? We all do the best we can with what we have. In other words, I don't believe there is a simple answer, ie don't vaccinate your child and all will be well. I don't think vaccines cause it, and I don't think not vacinnating prevents it. Because we simply do not yet know the cause(s). As to someone who's never been vaccinated and who has escaped major illness--you can thank God all you like. I say you've just been lucky. I know just as many Christians (and others from other faiths) who can tell horrific stories of major illness and disease. A good friend of mine, devout since her youth, is wheel chair bound with a rare disease call Ehlers-Danlos. No cure. There have been prayers and fasts galore for her good

health. How DARE anyone think they are more blessed or more deserving than she. Yet she is pain 24/7/365. She lives with a morphine pump. 3 other friends, all devout, are battling breast cancer. One is terminal end-stage. Claiming one is "blessed" because they have enjoyed good health is the HEIGHT of insensitive. It's like being at the scene of a school bus crash, where half the kids died. The parents of surviving children run around claiming they were "blessed" and their children are alive. WHAT horrific, insensitive message does that send to the parents whose child died? It's a stupid, specious argument. I'm sure God does bless us each in His own way, in His own time. But here's a newsflash--you are no more special than any of the rest of us. Stuff happens. It's part of the human condition.BTW, it was a doctor who told me any of us can develop an allergy to anything at any time. So your amoxycillin episode wasn't unusual. But does

that mean it should be eliminated from the planet? of course not. I'm getting sick and tired of the Vaccine bogeyman. Countless children will pay a serious price for their parents decisions. Make whatever decision you think is best for your child. But don't hand out medical advice to other people unless you hold an M.D. A parent should discuss the decision to vaccinate or not with their spouse and their doctor and make an educated decision. But don't take the word of strangers on the internet, from EITHER side of the discussion. And most certainly don't take the word of a vapid pseudo-celebrity on a talk show. Famous does not equate knowledgeable. MarilynFrom:

Carolyn <charper777@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 9:27:29 PMSubject: Re: vaccines

Here! Here! Marilyn, I agree with your post, like your attitude. I was thinking that Scarlet Fever is caused by the strep infection isn't it, when not treated with antibiotics it can go to the heart valves. My son Marty used to get strep throat as a kid, he was a carrier so when he started to get sick I had to make the doctor do a throat culture because he didn't have the usual symptoms yet. I just knew it. More than once he had to go on amoxicillin.But here is something to add to the mix, I got allergic to amoxicillin a few years ago, and had anaphalatic shock and had to go to the hospital in an ambulance! Shish! So don't take that anymore needless to say, was even afraid of taking any antibiotic ever again but finally had to and conquered my fear, it was hard but a friend of mine got bacteria in her brain and then in her heart from an abscessed tooth and was left with seizures so when I needed

clindamycin for my tooth I took it, more than once...I agree about the immigrants, we have hundreds of them here in Oregon. We have a law they have to be vaccinated before they can go to school though thank goodness!I do wonder what in the world causes autism and wish the reason would be found, probably environmental of some kind, who knows at this stage. Plastics? Won't know till scientists figure it out, I mean scientists not people with really really strong opinions.....they think the louder they shout at others the truer it gets but I have a news flash, I went to college once and in a class I took on nutrition I learned it was NOT against the law to LIE. A lot of health food propaganda and all sorts of other propaganda it is NOT against the law to spread!My tuition was worth it learning that one thing. Really I did believe if it was written quoting doctors, etc. then it was

true.NOT.Carolynmarilyn wrote:> We got the MMR, we just didn't get it as one vaccine. I'm 50 and I got > Measles, Mumps and Reubella Vaccines as a child. They just weren't > lumped in one shot. But the vaccines certainly existed.>> And prayer does nothing to keep a child safe from infectious disease. > God helps those who help themselves. I see His hand in giving us these > vaccines to help protect our children against childhood diseases that > used to maim and kill millions (I remember iron lungs for those who > had polio, I remember when Scarlet Fever killed, when the Mumps could > lead to deafness or loss of life). There is no such thing as a > "normal" childhood disease or a "safe" childhood disease. Vaccines are > important. WHEN to give them and how to space them is entirely > different, but it's stupid to throw the baby out with the

bathwater, > so to speak. Why not just not get it? Because children still can and > do die from these entirely preventable childhood diseases. If you want > to risk your childs life, that's your choice. I hope they don't pay > the price for your decision. Given the increased rate of immigrants in > to the USA, our exposure to these diseases is more, not less, than 50 > years ago, since many of those moving here were not vaccinated.>> We all make the best choices we can. Knowing diseases can maim and > kill vs vaccination against it? No brainer.>> BTW I have twins. They got vaccinated at the same time. One is > Aspergers, one isn't. I don't regret vaccinating either of them. (I > also don't believe vaccines are the root cause of autism--I just think > people want a boogie man to blame, and they've picked that one).>> YMMV.>

Marilyn>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> *From:* "sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment > *Sent:* Thu, August 26, 2010 11:58:50 PM> *Subject:* Re: vaccines>> Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1> We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the > numerous others were unknown then too.> Prayer is the most helpful.> Francine>>>> vaccines>> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my > youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems > that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5 > and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any > feedback would be appreciated?> ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

That right there is a flawed argument. Parents are experts on their Children. They are not necessarily experts on Autism. If they have studied it, done controlled studies, amassed data, done clinical research, THEN they might be able to claim to be experts on Autism. Otherwise, they are only experts on their children. Not Autism, and certainly not what is best for all children with Autism. MarilynFrom: "sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 10:37:47 PMSubject: Re: Re: vaccines

Who are the 'experts' on autism but the parents. She's got a better track record with her son than the doctors do.

[Guest guest]

please don't make the discussion personal.

Thank you

[moderator]

[Guest guest]

And like all other experts, we can sometimes be wrong.  We don't

have to follow what others tell us, but getting a second opinion is

usually a good idea.  It's much better to find out there are flaws

in your plans before you carry them out rather than after.  Living

with autism can teach you a few things, also.

On 28/08/2010 2:55 PM, marilyn wrote:

 

That right there is a flawed argument.

Parents are experts on their Children. They are not

necessarily experts on Autism. If they have studied it,

done controlled studies, amassed data, done clinical

research, THEN they might be able to claim to be experts

on Autism. Otherwise, they are only experts on their

children. Not Autism, and certainly not what is best for

all children with Autism.

 

Marilyn

From:

"sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>

To:

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Sent:

Fri, August 27, 2010 10:37:47 PM

Subject:

Re: Re: vaccines

 

Who are the 'experts' on autism but

the parents.  She's got a better track record

with her son than the doctors do.

[Guest guest]

I would just like to add to this that i am a mother to five children. Two with HFA/Asperger's and none of them have had the MMR or the HIB vaccine. I still have my aspergers children vaccination or not............... Sometimes life is just the way it is. I believe as previous poster has said its the food we eat (chemically improved) and the water we drink plus a comnbination of other factors such as genetics and even recognition of the condition. People with autism always existed its just that it wasnt diagnosed as often.

jess> We got the MMR, we just didn't get it as one vaccine. I'm 50 and I got > Measles, Mumps and Reubella Vaccines as a child. They just weren't > lumped in one shot. But the vaccines certainly existed.>> And prayer does nothing to keep a child safe from infectious disease. > God helps those who help themselves. I see His hand in giving us these > vaccines to help protect our children against childhood diseases that > used to maim and kill millions (I remember iron lungs for those who > had

polio, I remember when Scarlet Fever killed, when the Mumps could > lead to deafness or loss of life). There is no such thing as a > "normal" childhood disease or a "safe" childhood disease. Vaccines are > important. WHEN to give them and how to space them is entirely > different, but it's stupid to throw the baby out with the bathwater, > so to speak. Why not just not get it? Because children still can and > do die from these entirely preventable childhood diseases. If you want > to risk your childs life, that's your choice. I hope they don't pay > the price for your decision. Given the increased rate of immigrants in > to the USA, our exposure to these diseases is more, not less, than 50 > years ago, since many of those moving here were not vaccinated.>> We all make the best choices we can. Knowing diseases can maim and > kill vs vaccination against it? No

brainer.>> BTW I have twins. They got vaccinated at the same time. One is > Aspergers, one isn't. I don't regret vaccinating either of them. (I > also don't believe vaccines are the root cause of autism--I just think > people want a boogie man to blame, and they've picked that one).>> YMMV.> Marilyn>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> *From:* "sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment > *Sent:* Thu, August 26, 2010 11:58:50 PM> *Subject:* Re: vaccines>> Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1> We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the > numerous others were unknown then too.> Prayer is the most helpful.> Francine>>>>

vaccines>> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my > youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems > that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5 > and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any > feedback would be appreciated?> ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Okay I need to chime here. No one seems to be talking about the fact that there are children out there w/ ASD whom DID NOT pop outta mommy w/autism. Maybe no one here has heard of regressive autism. Funny how we have video of my child developing normally making all his milestones up until 13 months of age, then he received his MMR shot.... He had a fever that night and was sick for several days after. Well as most of you might guess he started regressing. It took us 4 months lata to understand what happened. So to ALL of you vaccine thumping people whom are brain washed and apparently DONT do your research, shame on you!!! I've been a stay @ home dad for 4 yrs with my

son. It's been more than a trying experience BUT it has opened my eyes to many of the things wrong on this planet. eVERYTHING is about money!!!! I live right down the road from aventis which is the worlds leading manufacturer of vaccines. If u thought the so called "swine flu" was anything more than a total SCAM then YOU have serious problems. I honestly don't even think it ever existed except in the media. : )Funny how they had to throw out millions of doses they never used. Why? Cause people were starting to catch on to the scam realizing that BIG PHARMA only wants ur money they care nothing about us sheeple!!!!I understand I'll get shit for posting this but it seems there isn't anyone whose keeping an open mind about this topic. I'm not a crazed parent looking to blame the boogey man... We ARE certain that genetics plays a role in autism ( my wifes side) and the other half of it ( vaccines) was the trigger.I could go deep into this subject.. But I'll leave it @ this..We will never vaccinate ourselves or our child!!! Get educated peopleAnother "crazed" vaccine hater. ; )Sent from my iPadOn Aug 28, 2010, at 12:53 AM, marilyn <onebusytwinmom@...> wrote:

Thanks Carolyn ;-)There's a lot of propaganda out there, on both sides. The last place I'd trust for viable scientific information would be 99% of the websites in existence. People want something to blame. But focusing on one thing takes away the open mindedness of looking for real causes. Most of these websites have an agenda, often political, on both sides. Since I frankly don't trust 99% of anything coming out of the Relgious Right, I can discount a good proportion of it there. I think Christ as the most benevolent and compassionate of men and He must be horrified at what calls itself Christianity in too many cases these days. I see little benevolence and no compassion.No, I don't trust every word a doctor utters, no more than anyone else. I do trust that the majority of them

are hard working, studied their art and science, and want what is best for their patients. They are partners in health care. They know a lot. I know a lot. We work together to make educated decisions. I learned at a young age that medicine is often more art than science and educated guesses are mostly what we work with.I think environmental toxins combined with a paricualr DNA sequence are probably the root cause of much of what we now call Autism. I'm sure my husband would be diagnosed as HFA/Aspergers, so is it a wonder our son is? They are also both left-handed and have curly hair. Puberty is also onsetting very early in girls, do we blame vaccines for that? I think it's more likely the food supply. Are we supposed to stop eating? We all do the best we can with what we have. In other words, I don't believe there is a simple answer, ie don't vaccinate your child and all will be well. I don't think vaccines cause it, and I don't think not vacinnating prevents it. Because we simply do not yet know the cause(s). As to someone who's never been vaccinated and who has escaped major illness--you can thank God all you like. I say you've just been lucky. I know just as many Christians (and others from other faiths) who can tell horrific stories of major illness and disease. A good friend of mine, devout since her youth, is wheel chair bound with a rare disease call Ehlers-Danlos. No cure. There have been prayers and fasts galore for her good

health. How DARE anyone think they are more blessed or more deserving than she. Yet she is pain 24/7/365. She lives with a morphine pump. 3 other friends, all devout, are battling breast cancer. One is terminal end-stage. Claiming one is "blessed" because they have enjoyed good health is the HEIGHT of insensitive. It's like being at the scene of a school bus crash, where half the kids died. The parents of surviving children run around claiming they were "blessed" and their children are alive. WHAT horrific, insensitive message does that send to the parents whose child died? It's a stupid, specious argument. I'm sure God does bless us each in His own way, in His own time. But here's a newsflash--you are no more special than any of the rest of us. Stuff happens. It's part of the human condition.BTW, it was a doctor who told me any of us can develop an allergy to anything at any time. So your amoxycillin episode wasn't unusual. But does

that mean it should be eliminated from the planet? of course not. I'm getting sick and tired of the Vaccine bogeyman. Countless children will pay a serious price for their parents decisions. Make whatever decision you think is best for your child. But don't hand out medical advice to other people unless you hold an M.D. A parent should discuss the decision to vaccinate or not with their spouse and their doctor and make an educated decision. But don't take the word of strangers on the internet, from EITHER side of the discussion. And most certainly don't take the word of a vapid pseudo-celebrity on a talk show. Famous does not equate knowledgeable. MarilynFrom:

Carolyn <charper777@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 9:27:29 PMSubject: Re: vaccines

Here! Here! Marilyn, I agree with your post, like your attitude. I was thinking that Scarlet Fever is caused by the strep infection isn't it, when not treated with antibiotics it can go to the heart valves. My son Marty used to get strep throat as a kid, he was a carrier so when he started to get sick I had to make the doctor do a throat culture because he didn't have the usual symptoms yet. I just knew it. More than once he had to go on amoxicillin.But here is something to add to the mix, I got allergic to amoxicillin a few years ago, and had anaphalatic shock and had to go to the hospital in an ambulance! Shish! So don't take that anymore needless to say, was even afraid of taking any antibiotic ever again but finally had to and conquered my fear, it was hard but a friend of mine got bacteria in her brain and then in her heart from an abscessed tooth and was left with seizures so when I needed

clindamycin for my tooth I took it, more than once...I agree about the immigrants, we have hundreds of them here in Oregon. We have a law they have to be vaccinated before they can go to school though thank goodness!I do wonder what in the world causes autism and wish the reason would be found, probably environmental of some kind, who knows at this stage. Plastics? Won't know till scientists figure it out, I mean scientists not people with really really strong opinions.....they think the louder they shout at others the truer it gets but I have a news flash, I went to college once and in a class I took on nutrition I learned it was NOT against the law to LIE. A lot of health food propaganda and all sorts of other propaganda it is NOT against the law to spread!My tuition was worth it learning that one thing. Really I did believe if it was written quoting doctors, etc. then it was

true.NOT.Carolynmarilyn wrote:> We got the MMR, we just didn't get it as one vaccine. I'm 50 and I got > Measles, Mumps and Reubella Vaccines as a child. They just weren't > lumped in one shot. But the vaccines certainly existed.>> And prayer does nothing to keep a child safe from infectious disease. > God helps those who help themselves. I see His hand in giving us these > vaccines to help protect our children against childhood diseases that > used to maim and kill millions (I remember iron lungs for those who > had polio, I remember when Scarlet Fever killed, when the Mumps could > lead to deafness or loss of life). There is no such thing as a > "normal" childhood disease or a "safe" childhood disease. Vaccines are > important. WHEN to give them and how to space them is entirely > different, but it's stupid to throw the baby out with the

bathwater, > so to speak. Why not just not get it? Because children still can and > do die from these entirely preventable childhood diseases. If you want > to risk your childs life, that's your choice. I hope they don't pay > the price for your decision. Given the increased rate of immigrants in > to the USA, our exposure to these diseases is more, not less, than 50 > years ago, since many of those moving here were not vaccinated.>> We all make the best choices we can. Knowing diseases can maim and > kill vs vaccination against it? No brainer.>> BTW I have twins. They got vaccinated at the same time. One is > Aspergers, one isn't. I don't regret vaccinating either of them. (I > also don't believe vaccines are the root cause of autism--I just think > people want a boogie man to blame, and they've picked that one).>> YMMV.>

Marilyn>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> *From:* "sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment > *Sent:* Thu, August 26, 2010 11:58:50 PM> *Subject:* Re: vaccines>> Why not just not get it, and certainly not the 3 in 1> We all grew up just fine without the mmr vaccine, and most of the > numerous others were unknown then too.> Prayer is the most helpful.>

Francine>>>> vaccines>> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my > youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems > that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5 > and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any > feedback would be appreciated?> ------------------------------------

Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: Autism and Aspergers Treatment/<*> Your email

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[Guest guest]

There are loopholes that force the schools to allow unvaccinated children into

school - these loopholes require no proof - they are religious or medically

excused - so anyone can say its againt my religion to have my child vaccinated.

I think you would be surprised how many kids who are in school are unvaccinated.

Suzanne

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

vaccines

>

> oldest has Aspergers and now I have to get the second MMR for my

> youngest (5) I am terrified to get the 3 in one shot but it seems

> that's all my doctors are offering, Do I get it being that she is 5

> and past that crutial 3 year old milestone????? Please help. Any

> feedback would be appreciated?

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I don't see anything "open-minded" about your post, whereas I think my post was even-handed. And don't assume we are sheeple or brainwashed or don't do our homework, just because we may draw different conclusions than you from the information out there. Given that I have a Masters Degree and an IQ of 130, I'm not an idiot. I didn't say I buy into everything the Gov't or the Doctors tell me, but I also don't buy into the hysteria of "its all the fault of vaccines". I don't accept Hysteria and POSTS LIKE THIS!!!!!! as facts. I deal in facts and hard evidence. There is no simple answer, and we don't know what the definitive answer is as to the cause(s) of Autism. It's entirely possible vaccines may play a role **in some cases** of autism--but there is no hard evidence. You yourself admitted it's half

genetic in your own case. Parents have to make educated choices. But given that the decision to vaccinate, or not, is a MEDICAL choice, it should be made between a family and their health care providers, not a bunch of hysterical screaming people online. You can hate vaccines all you like, and it's your choice. You don't have the right to name call or judge others who make different decisions. You are not God.It's impossible to know if a child has autism at birth. Symptoms don't show up until 15m+ of age, because that's when you start noticing that milestones are being missed. My son was always "normal" as far as milestones went. He's so high-functioning, we couldn't get a definitive diagnosis until he was 7. We always knew something was "off" but nothing anyone could really identify. (He has a gifted IQ but is socially clueless). He makes good eye contact. He has a good sense of humor. If you met him, you'd just think he's a bit quirky.

But we always knew, from infancy, that something was not quite right. But nothing you could put a finger on. I've now been dealing with Autism for close to 10 years. I'm not a moron, and I'm fairly well read on the subject, including any number of professional reference works. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, other than an expert on my own son, but I do grasp the basics. The important thing to also remember is here is that Autism is a SPECTRUM disorder. It runs a very wide range, from HFA (like my son) to non-verbal non-functional children. Just as there are probably several different causes of Autism, there are many different forms of Autism. One size does not fit all. So GFCF diet may work wonders for Kid A, and be useless for Kid B. Not vaccinating your child may be the right choice for your family, but you don't have the right to scare the pants off everyone else screaming it will harm ALL children, because it's simply not true,

and can cause harm. Again, parents need to do their research, talk to their doctors, and make the decision that is best for their own family. But they don't get to scare, threaten, yell at, or judge other parents who reach different decisions. That's those parents right and privilege. I don't understand this need to "blame" someone for "causing" autism, instead of simply focusing on helping our children. I know I only have so much energy and time in my day, and it's devoted to my children. I don't have the time or the energy to carry irrational anger. I need to devote what time and energy I do have to my son and daughter.Peace.MarilynFrom: <chrispix525@...>"Autism and Aspergers Treatment " <Autism and Aspergers Treatment >Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 6:42:39 AMSubject: Re: vaccines

Okay I need to chime here. No one seems to be talking about the fact that there are children out there w/ ASD whom DID NOT pop outta mommy w/autism. Maybe no one here has heard of regressive autism. Funny how we have video of my child developing normally making all his milestones up until 13 months of age, then he received his MMR shot.... He had a fever that night and was sick for several days after. Well as most of you might guess he started regressing. It took us 4 months lata to understand what happened. So to ALL of you vaccine thumping people whom are brain washed and apparently DONT do your research, shame on you!!! I've been a stay @ home dad for 4 yrs with my

son. It's been more than a trying experience BUT it has opened my eyes to many of the things wrong on this planet. eVERYTHING is about money!!!! I live right down the road from aventis which is the worlds leading manufacturer of vaccines. If u thought the so called "swine flu" was anything more than a total SCAM then YOU have serious problems. I honestly don't even think it ever existed except in the media. : )Funny how they had to throw out millions of doses they never used. Why? Cause people were starting to catch on to the scam realizing that BIG PHARMA only wants ur money they care nothing about us sheeple!!!!I understand I'll get shit for posting this but it seems there isn't anyone whose keeping an open mind about this topic. I'm not a crazed parent looking to blame the boogey man... We ARE certain that genetics plays a role in autism ( my wifes

side) and the other half of it ( vaccines) was the trigger.I could go deep into this subject.. But I'll leave it @ this..We will never vaccinate ourselves or our child!!! Get educated people

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree with that --getting a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion can sometimes be valuable. And we all do learn a lot, living with Autism. But as Autism is a spectrum disorder, none of us can claim to be an Autism Expert. Only an expert on our child, who has Autism. It's presumptuous for any of us to declare we know absolutely what is best for anyone else's child (Autistic or not). In the end, all we can each do is educate ourselves as best we can, and make the most informed decisions possible, for ourselves and our children. We are never going to get it right all the time. We are doing well if we get it right most of the time. But none of us has the right to judge or condemn other parents for their choices -- but neither do they have the right to judge or condemn us. Looking

at both sides of the argument (regardless of what argument it is) is the only way to make a truly informed choice. Facts and logic serve us best. Emotional grandstanding and hysterics don't serve anyone well. MarilynFrom: Riley <klriley@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Sat, August 28,

2010 3:38:59 AMSubject: Re: Re: vaccines

And like all other experts, we can sometimes be wrong. We don't

have to follow what others tell us, but getting a second opinion is

usually a good idea. It's much better to find out there are flaws

in your plans before you carry them out rather than after. Living

with autism can teach you a few things, also.

On 28/08/2010 2:55 PM, marilyn wrote:

That right there is a flawed argument.

Parents are experts on their Children. They are not

necessarily experts on Autism. If they have studied it,

done controlled studies, amassed data, done clinical

research, THEN they might be able to claim to be experts

on Autism. Otherwise, they are only experts on their

children. Not Autism, and certainly not what is best for

all children with Autism.

Marilyn

From:

"sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>

To:

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Sent:

Fri, August 27, 2010 10:37:47 PM

Subject:

Re: Re: vaccines

Who are the 'experts' on autism but

the parents. She's got a better track record

with her son than the doctors do.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Marilyn...I was going to respond the same as you (except my IQ isn't quite as high as yours LOL!). I am a teacher and my daughter is 16 with high-functioning Asperger's. I don't appreciate being called an idiot or that I didn't do my research. On the contrary, I research everything related to my childrens' health and well-being and the more I read, the more evidence I find that ignorance breeds ignorance. Thank you for your well voiced response. I applaud you! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: marilyn <onebusytwinmom@...>Sender: Autism and Aspergers Treatment Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:26:34 -0700 (PDT)<Autism and Aspergers Treatment >Reply Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: vaccines I don't see anything "open-minded" about your post, whereas I think my post was even-handed. And don't assume we are sheeple or brainwashed or don't do our homework, just because we may draw different conclusions than you from the information out there. Given that I have a Masters Degree and an IQ of 130, I'm not an idiot. I didn't say I buy into everything the Gov't or the Doctors tell me, but I also don't buy into the hysteria of "its all the fault of vaccines". I don't accept Hysteria and POSTS LIKE THIS!!!!!! as facts. I deal in facts and hard evidence. There is no simple answer, and we don't know what the definitive answer is as to the cause(s) of Autism. It's entirely possible vaccines may play a role **in some cases** of autism--but there is no hard evidence. You yourself admitted it's halfgenetic in your own case. Parents have to make educated choices. But given that the decision to vaccinate, or not, is a MEDICAL choice, it should be made between a family and their health care providers, not a bunch of hysterical screaming people online. You can hate vaccines all you like, and it's your choice. You don't have the right to name call or judge others who make different decisions. You are not God.It's impossible to know if a child has autism at birth. Symptoms don't show up until 15m+ of age, because that's when you start noticing that milestones are being missed. My son was always "normal" as far as milestones went. He's so high-functioning, we couldn't get a definitive diagnosis until he was 7. We always knew something was "off" but nothing anyone could really identify. (He has a gifted IQ but is socially clueless). He makes good eye contact. He has a good sense of humor. If you met him, you'd just think he's a bit quirky.But we always knew, from infancy, that something was not quite right. But nothing you could put a finger on. I've now been dealing with Autism for close to 10 years. I'm not a moron, and I'm fairly well read on the subject, including any number of professional reference works. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, other than an expert on my own son, but I do grasp the basics. The important thing to also remember is here is that Autism is a SPECTRUM disorder. It runs a very wide range, from HFA (like my son) to non-verbal non-functional children. Just as there are probably several different causes of Autism, there are many different forms of Autism. One size does not fit all. So GFCF diet may work wonders for Kid A, and be useless for Kid B. Not vaccinating your child may be the right choice for your family, but you don't have the right to scare the pants off everyone else screaming it will harm ALL children, because it's simply not true,and can cause harm. Again, parents need to do their research, talk to their doctors, and make the decision that is best for their own family. But they don't get to scare, threaten, yell at, or judge other parents who reach different decisions. That's those parents right and privilege. I don't understand this need to "blame" someone for "causing" autism, instead of simply focusing on helping our children. I know I only have so much energy and time in my day, and it's devoted to my children. I don't have the time or the energy to carry irrational anger. I need to devote what time and energy I do have to my son and daughter.Peace.MarilynFrom: <chrispix525@...>"Autism and Aspergers Treatment " <Autism and Aspergers Treatment >Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 6:42:39 AMSubject: Re: vaccines Okay I need to chime here. No one seems to be talking about the fact that there are children out there w/ ASD whom DID NOT pop outta mommy w/autism. Maybe no one here has heard of regressive autism. Funny how we have video of my child developing normally making all his milestones up until 13 months of age, then he received his MMR shot.... He had a fever that night and was sick for several days after. Well as most of you might guess he started regressing. It took us 4 months lata to understand what happened. So to ALL of you vaccine thumping people whom are brain washed and apparently DONT do your research, shame on you!!! I've been a stay @ home dad for 4 yrs with myson. It's been more than a trying experience BUT it has opened my eyes to many of the things wrong on this planet. eVERYTHING is about money!!!! I live right down the road from aventis which is the worlds leading manufacturer of vaccines. If u thought the so called "swine flu" was anything more than a total SCAM then YOU have serious problems. I honestly don't even think it ever existed except in the media. : )Funny how they had to throw out millions of doses they never used. Why? Cause people were starting to catch on to the scam realizing that BIG PHARMA only wants ur money they care nothing about us sheeple!!!!I understand I'll get shit for posting this but it seems there isn't anyone whose keeping an open mind about this topic. I'm not a crazed parent looking to blame the boogey man... We ARE certain that genetics plays a role in autism ( my wifesside) and the other half of it ( vaccines) was the trigger.I could go deep into this subject.. But I'll leave it @ this..We will never vaccinate ourselves or our child!!! Get educated people

[Guest guest]

Be aware. Many if not most people would like to say their answer is right and nobody elses. As result, always get multiple advices.

From: marilyn <onebusytwinmom@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 10:40:34 AMSubject: Re: Re: vaccines

I absolutely agree with that --getting a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion can sometimes be valuable. And we all do learn a lot, living with Autism. But as Autism is a spectrum disorder, none of us can claim to be an Autism Expert. Only an expert on our child, who has Autism. It's presumptuous for any of us to declare we know absolutely what is best for anyone else's child (Autistic or not). In the end, all we can each do is educate ourselves as best we can, and make the most informed decisions possible, for ourselves and our children. We are never going to get it right all the time. We are doing well if we get it right most of the time. But none of us has the right to judge or condemn other parents for their choices -- but neither do they have the right to judge or condemn us. Looking at both sides of the argument (regardless of what argument it is) is the

only way to make a truly informed choice. Facts and logic serve us best. Emotional grandstanding and hysterics don't serve anyone well.

Marilyn

From: Riley <klriley@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 3:38:59 AMSubject: Re: Re: vaccines

And like all other experts, we can sometimes be wrong. We don't have to follow what others tell us, but getting a second opinion is usually a good idea. It's much better to find out there are flaws in your plans before you carry them out rather than after. Living with autism can teach you a few things, also.On 28/08/2010 2:55 PM, marilyn wrote:

That right there is a flawed argument. Parents are experts on their Children. They are not necessarily experts on Autism. If they have studied it, done controlled studies, amassed data, done clinical research, THEN they might be able to claim to be experts on Autism. Otherwise, they are only experts on their children. Not Autism, and certainly not what is best for all children with Autism.

Marilyn

From: "sunrose101@..." <sunrose101@...>Autism and Aspergers Treatment Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 10:37:47 PMSubject: Re: Re: vaccines

Who are the 'experts' on autism but the parents. She's got a better track record with her son than the doctors do.