Folic Acid

[Guest guest]

Whopper, does it to me every time

rheumatic folic acid

> Hi,

> I am wondering if folic acid and possibly vitamin c (ascorbic acid) can

> make our pain and inflammation worse. I have been reading that

> homocyteine levels are beginning to be seen as more of a predictor of

> heart and vascular trouble than cholesterol levels.

> Folic acid drastically reduces homocyteine levels and quickly. Years

> ago, I read about a small town doctor who had been prescribing 800-1200

> mg of folic acid to every one of his patients and upon studying the

> results after fifty years, not one single person in his practice died of

> a cardiovascular problem. This is pretty amazing. Since I am starting

> to go through estrogen decrease, I thought I would take 1200 mg of folic

> acid. I did this for the last three days and I have had a lot of extra

> pain. I don't know if it is the Biaxin, the folic acid, or perhaps that

> big bite of whopper sandwich.

> What do you think?

> Love,

> Gloria

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[Guest guest]

>

>

> I've been exchanging messages with Jeani about Methotrexate. I take

> 5mg of Folic Acid per week, every Sunday. She however takes 2mg per

day

> and recently doubled the dose (i.e. from 14mg to 28mg per week (I

hope

> I've got that right)). This means I'm taking very little and she

takes a

> lot. Can anyone shed any light on this?

>

> na

>

> RA 2 years

> Methotrexate 10mg/week

> Diclofemac 100mg/day

Just for the record, I take 400mcg (micrograms) 3x/day which equals

1.2mg (milligrams)/day. I'm on 15mg of metho/week. I use OTC folic

acid. I don't take it on the day I take metho. If you're not having

side effects from the metho, your dosage should be fine. It's

usually given to ward off side effects.

Mark

Metho 15 mg/week

Lodine 400mg 3x/day

[Guest guest]

[i've been exchanging messages with Jeani about Methotrexate. I take

5mg of Folic Acid per week, every Sunday. She however takes 2mg per day

and recently doubled the dose (i.e. from 14mg to 28mg per week (I hope

I've got that right)). This means I'm taking very little and she takes a

lot. Can anyone shed any light on this?

na]

Hi, na,

I started taking 7.5 mg of MTX 6 weeks ago. My Dr. has me taking 1 mg Folic

Acid daily. Maybe that relates to the MTX level?

I'll probably find out, because my current dose isn't really doing anything.

And for those thinking about starting it, after the first week or so, no nausea

or major symptoms, except for some tiredness 2-3 days after taking it (3 doeses

of 2.5 mg, 12 hours apart), and some decrease in appetite (which unfortunately

doesn't last long enough, LOL!).

Geri

P since a child (46 years)

PA since a teenager

Fibro for at least 4, but maybe 25 years

[Guest guest]

Hi na

I take 5mg folic acid daily apart from friday when I take my Mtx. I did

reduce it at one time because the Rh nurse thought maybe the folic acid was

blocking the Mtx from working. But I'm back on it daily again now. I've

reduced my Mtx to 7.5mg weekly, so next time I see my Rh doc I may query as

to whether I still need to take so much. How are you doing on the Mtx?

BFN

Carol W.

rheumatic Folic Acid

>

>

>I've been exchanging messages with Jeani about Methotrexate. I take

>5mg of Folic Acid per week, every Sunday. She however takes 2mg per day

>and recently doubled the dose (i.e. from 14mg to 28mg per week (I hope

>I've got that right)). This means I'm taking very little and she takes a

>lot. Can anyone shed any light on this?

>

>na

>

>RA 2 years

>Methotrexate 10mg/week

>Diclofemac 100mg/day

>

>

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I went to an oncologist when I was suspected of having lymphoma (which I did

not).

The oncologist said that the folic acid rendered the methotrexate less

effective.

The rheumatologist still suggests using it, however.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol,

My Rheaumatologist told me the folic acid helped in the absorption of the

Methotrexate.

Bev

>I went to an oncologist when I was suspected of having lymphoma (which I

did

>not).

>The oncologist said that the folic acid rendered the methotrexate less

>effective.

>The rheumatologist still suggests using it, however.

>

>Carol

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Susie,

This is a low dose of Folic acid. Did the doctor prescribe

it or

is it over the counter? I was taking 1mg and had liver

toxicity, so they

increased my folic acid to 2mgs and I had no more problems.

Folic acid helps with mouth sores so maybe you should ask

if you should increase your folic acid. You're not even

taking 1/2 of a mg.

There are 1000 mcgs in 1mg, so I am at less than half your

mtx dose and

yet I am taking 5 times as much folic acid. BUT remember,

my blood tests

showed liver toxicity. I would think your doctor would at

least triple your

folic acid, maybe even more.

a

[ ] FOLIC ACID

I am taking the FOLIC ACID. The pills I have are 400 mcg.

How many of those should I be taking with the

Methotrexate?

Susie

[Guest guest]

It is over the counter. I asked her about prescribing some good kind,

today on phone. THey said that to just watch it and they would when I

came back at end of Nov.

a wrote:

> Susie,

> This is a low dose of Folic acid. Did the doctor prescribe

> it or

> is it over the counter? I was taking 1mg and had liver

> toxicity, so they

> increased my folic acid to 2mgs and I had no more problems.

> Folic acid helps with mouth sores so maybe you should ask

> if you should increase your folic acid. You're not even

> taking 1/2 of a mg.

> There are 1000 mcgs in 1mg, so I am at less than half your

> mtx dose and

> yet I am taking 5 times as much folic acid. BUT remember,

> my blood tests

> showed liver toxicity. I would think your doctor would at

> least triple your

> folic acid, maybe even more.

> a

>

> [ ] FOLIC ACID

>

>

> I am taking the FOLIC ACID. The pills I have are 400 mcg.

> How many of those should I be taking with the

> Methotrexate?

> Susie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Watch what? Was it to much trouble for them to pick up the

phone

and call in a prescription?

a

[ ] FOLIC ACID

>

>

> I am taking the FOLIC ACID. The pills I have are 400

mcg.

> How many of those should I be taking with the

> Methotrexate?

> Susie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do they expect you to walk around with bloody gums for a

MONTH?

I think I'm REALLY cranky and I'd better go to bed.

a

Re: [ ] FOLIC ACID

It is over the counter. I asked her about prescribing some

good kind,

today on phone. THey said that to just watch it and they

would when I

came back at end of Nov.

a wrote:

> Susie,

> This is a low dose of Folic acid. Did the doctor

prescribe

> it or

> is it over the counter? I was taking 1mg and had liver

> toxicity, so they

> increased my folic acid to 2mgs and I had no more

problems.

> Folic acid helps with mouth sores so maybe you should

ask

> if you should increase your folic acid. You're not

even

> taking 1/2 of a mg.

> There are 1000 mcgs in 1mg, so I am at less than half

your

> mtx dose and

> yet I am taking 5 times as much folic acid. BUT

remember,

> my blood tests

> showed liver toxicity. I would think your doctor would

at

> least triple your

> folic acid, maybe even more.

> a

>

[Guest guest]

> Andy,

> Did you mean to say give 1600 mcg of Folic Acid several times a day?

You can divide the doses. It is OK to give more or less any amount,

but for a small child that is probably enough in a day.

>If

> so, what would the cap on the dosage be?

I don't know that there is one, but 1600 mcg a day should be enough.

>Just wanting to be clear.

> Thank you,

> Jil

[Guest guest]

hugsfam5@... wrote:

>Can one overdo it on folic acid? Or does the body just get rid of what it

>doesn't need if there is excess?

>Thank you,

>Michele

>

>

If you do a search, there's not much there on effects of

over-supplementation of folic acid, only on the effects of insufficient

folate (neuroal tube defects, cardiovascular problems). What little

research there is appears a bit troubling, yet US Public Health has had

all our food fortified with it. I don't believe this is the case in

Europe. The sulfur and folate metabolic pathways are closely

interrelated and we know something's not quite right with the sulfur one

in autism, so I would just be cautious/observant if you supplement with

folic acid.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with their protocol...how much folic acid was he

getting?

Thanks, Michele

In a message dated 5/2/03 9:11:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

robbiev911@... writes:

<< My son was fine in this regard til pfieffer came into

picture NOW hes got high homo and high tri glys. He

was better BEFORE THEIR PROTOCALL11111 >>

[Guest guest]

I guess I'm trying to figure out what the sulfur detoxification system has to do

with the methylation system of the body, and the methylation/neurotransmitter

system in the brain.

My doctor told me yesterday that autistic children are almost ALL

" APO E4 " . He said that the the APO system has two allelles, and that

the difference between them is one has alanine (amino acid) and the other

has " cysteine...I think that's the amino acid he mentioned " .

He said that the only difference between these two amino acids is one

sulfur atom.

He said that APO E4 was allowing the mercury toxicity, the inability to handle

the mercury in the vaccines, for autistic children.

You all may be way ahead of me on this one, and it's probably all in Andy's

book that I haven't gotten to read yet.

But here is that " sulfur " question, again.

I know that has to do with the epson salts that everyone is recommending.

Methylation must be adding sulfur atoms(???, I need to look this up again),

but how could adding sulfur atoms, and increasing them, which is good for

detoxification, but sounds like it must be increasing methylation, be bad for

people with chemical sensitivities or low histamine or over-production of

neurotransmitters?

I did read on the neuroscienceinc site that GABA is helpful with overproduction

of neurotransmitters. Maybe you increase GABA, don't worry about

" over-methylation " , and go ahead and add sulfur atoms and methyl groups with

methionine, Sam-e, methyl B12, and epson salts. Increasing glutathione and

cysteine might increase detoxification without increasing methyl groups,

unless there is a loop-back.

Does anyone know if " methylation " is a " beside the point " process, and that

neurotransmitters by themselves (the amino acid precursors), and the sulfur

(sulfate) and glutathione detoxification processes (epson salt) by themselves

are all one needs to address. Maybe methylation is beside the point.

I thought histamine was beside the point, yet I read that it is a necessary

brain chemical (amino acid).

Re: [ ] Re: OT ; SENSORY LEARNING INSTITUTE

> a,

> Chelation and detox can also undo the ait gains and usually the ait has

to

> be repeated. Better to detox first then do ait. I have the info

somewhere

in

> my files written by an md as to the reasons why. If I find it ,I'll pass

it

> on to you.

> R

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> I guess I'm trying to figure out what the sulfur detoxification

system has to do

> with the methylation system of the body,

Very little. There are certain specific connections which are mostly

not what people discuss on this list or in other venues.

>and the methylation/neurotransmitter

> system in the brain.

>

> My doctor told me yesterday that autistic children are almost ALL

> " APO E4 " . He said that the the APO system has two allelles, and

that

> the difference between them is one has alanine (amino acid) and the

other

> has " cysteine...I think that's the amino acid he mentioned " .

> He said that the only difference between these two amino acids is

one

> sulfur atom.

> He said that APO E4 was allowing the mercury toxicity, the inability

to handle

> the mercury in the vaccines, for autistic children.

>

> You all may be way ahead of me on this one, and it's probably all in

Andy's

> book that I haven't gotten to read yet.

> But here is that " sulfur " question, again.

> I know that has to do with the epson salts that everyone is

recommending.

>

> Methylation must be adding sulfur atoms(???,

No, it is adding methyl groups which do not contain sulfur.

>I need to look this up again),

> but how could adding sulfur atoms, and increasing them, which is

good for

> detoxification, but sounds like it must be increasing methylation,

be bad for

> people with chemical sensitivities or low histamine or

over-production of

> neurotransmitters?

>

> I did read on the neuroscienceinc site that GABA is helpful with

overproduction

> of neurotransmitters. Maybe you increase GABA, don't worry about

" over-methylation " , and go ahead and add sulfur atoms and methyl

groups with

> methionine, Sam-e, methyl B12, and epson salts. Increasing

glutathione and

> cysteine might increase detoxification without increasing methyl

groups,

> unless there is a loop-back.

>

> Does anyone know if " methylation " is a " beside the point " process,

and that

> neurotransmitters by themselves (the amino acid precursors), and the

sulfur

> (sulfate) and glutathione detoxification processes (epson salt) by

themselves

> are all one needs to address. Maybe methylation is beside the

point.

> I thought histamine was beside the point, yet I read that it is a

necessary

> brain chemical (amino acid).

This is all so far off point that there isn't much useful to say other

than " forget about it. " Start again with a clean slate.

Andy . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen

I take 1mg. of folic acid once a day. When I was on mtx. my

doctor told me to take it. I am no longer on mtx. but my doctor told me to

continue to take it & gives me a prescription for it. Hope this helps.

nn

[Guest guest]

I take Folic Acid daily. I was prescribed 5 mg a day for

Methytetrahydrafolate disorder that was found while in ICU for a clot in my lung

five years ago.

Praise God for making me a walking miracle! Since folate is water soluable you

can't OD on it. What your body doesn't need gets put out as waste. Most

stores carry 400mcg BUT you can take 14 of those and it will be sufficient.

1000mcg

= 1mg. Thus you're okay with 5mg a day.

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dish, up to four rooms, over 200 channels. Christmas special on now. Let this

be a Christmas the whole family will enjoy and remember you for through out the

year. Accept no imitations.

[Guest guest]

My doctor prescribed folic acid when he gave me MTX. It's 1 mg

daily. I thought the main side effect it is supposed to help with

is hair loss. I did fine the first 10 months or so and I know I

have a clogged drain every morning from my hair. I have an appt

next week and am planning to ask about this. Not sure about other

MTX side effects. Other than this recent hair loss I haven't had

side effects from it.

> ,

>

> I read with interest the article you posted regarding folic acid

> administration while taking MTX. I am on MTX weekly and I started

taking extra B vitamins

> after reading several articles on the web about how folic acid

could possibly

> diminish the side effects of MTX. (At the same time I never

thought of the

> cardiac implications of MTX and RA.)

>

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it

would make

> no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My

multivitamin has

> 400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400

micrograms. That

> is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

>

> Kathy

>

> In a message dated 07/07/2004 12:50:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> 1.. Griffith SM, Fisher J, e S et al. Do patients with

rheumatoid

> arthritis established on methotrexate and folic acid 5 mg daily

need to

> continue folic acid supplements long term?

> Rheumatology2000;39:1102-9.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I was on mtx, my rheumy recommended taking 1 mg of folic acid. I'm

not taking mtx any more, but I still take folic acid because I'm on

metformin for diabetes, and it's recommended for that, too. With mtx,

it just minimizes the side effects for most people without undoing what

the mtx does. Anyway, that's my understanding.

Sue

On Wednesday, July 7, 2004, at 07:21 PM, daffy11149@... wrote:

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it would

> make

> no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My

> multivitamin has

> 400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400

> micrograms. That

> is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

[Guest guest]

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it

would make

> no difference).

Folic acid is a must with MTX.

S.

[Guest guest]

I agree about the folic acid. It is a must. I take 1 mg. tabs twice

daily.

Libby

On Jul 7, 2004, at 10:17 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:

>

>

>> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it

> would make

>> no difference).

>

> Folic acid is a must with MTX.

>

> S.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

There is a lot of evidence that suggests that low dose MTX therapy in RA

should be supplemented with folic acid. The main arguments for folic

acid supplementation are these (from the article I posted a few minutes

ago):

" CONCLUSION: For longterm, low dose MTX therapy, there are now at least

3 reasons to consider supplementation with folic acid (a low cost

prescription): (1) to prevent MTX toxicity, (2) to prevent or treat

folate deficiency, and (3) to prevent hyperhomocysteinemia, considered

by many investigators to be a risk factor for cardiovascular disease.

PMID: 9517760 "

It's been a controversial issue for years since some researchers and

physicians believe that folic acid can interfere with the efficacy of

the MTX. Others argue that the action of MTX in RA is not significantly

impaired by folic acid.

The common dosage in the US for folic acid supplementation with MTX is 1

mg per day. It's more common in the UK to use 5 mg per day. There are

some who advise not taking the folic acid on the same day as the MTX and

still others who suggest taking the folic acid in a weekly dose the day

after MTX administration.

Although I don't have hard numbers, in our group, it seems that the

majority taking MTX are supplementing with folic acid and, most often,

they use 1 mg per day.

I'll tell you where to go!

Mayo Clinic in Rochester

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

s Hopkins Medicine

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

[ ] Folic Acid

> ,

>

> I read with interest the article you posted regarding folic acid

> administration while taking MTX. I am on MTX weekly and I started

taking extra B vitamins

> after reading several articles on the web about how folic acid could

possibly

> diminish the side effects of MTX. (At the same time I never thought of

the

> cardiac implications of MTX and RA.)

>

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it would

make

> no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My

multivitamin has

> 400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400

micrograms. That

> is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

>

> Kathy

>

> In a message dated 07/07/2004 12:50:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> 1.. Griffith SM, Fisher J, e S et al. Do patients with

rheumatoid

> arthritis established on methotrexate and folic acid 5 mg daily need

to

> continue folic acid supplements long term?

> Rheumatology2000;39:1102-9.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

[Guest guest]

-------------- Original message from daffy11149@...: --------------

> ,

>

> I read with interest the article you posted regarding folic acid

> administration while taking MTX. I am on MTX weekly and I started taking

extra B

> vitamins

> after reading several articles on the web about how folic acid could

possibly

> diminish the side effects of MTX. (At the same time I never thought of the

> cardiac implications of MTX and RA.)

>

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it would

make

> no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My multivitamin

has

> 400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400 micrograms.

That

> is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

>

> Kathy

>

> In a message dated 07/07/2004 12:50:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> 1.. Griffith SM, Fisher J, e S et al. Do patients with rheumatoid

> arthritis established on methotrexate and folic acid 5 mg daily need to

> continue folic acid supplements long term?

> Rheumatology2000;39:1102-9.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i take 1mg. of folic acid. and it helped me with the side effects. mike

daffy11149@... wrote:,

I read with interest the article you posted regarding folic acid

administration while taking MTX. I am on MTX weekly and I started taking extra B

vitamins

after reading several articles on the web about how folic acid could possibly

diminish the side effects of MTX. (At the same time I never thought of the

cardiac implications of MTX and RA.)

Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it would make

no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My multivitamin has

400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400 micrograms. That

is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

Kathy

In a message dated 07/07/2004 12:50:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

writes:

1.. Griffith SM, Fisher J, e S et al. Do patients with rheumatoid

arthritis established on methotrexate and folic acid 5 mg daily need to

continue folic acid supplements long term?

Rheumatology2000;39:1102-9.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

[Guest guest]

I saw my rheumy today and mentioned I was having some hair loss. I've

been on 17.5 mgs weekly of mtx and 1mg daily of folic acid for over a

year and the hair loss just started about a month ago. He said to

double the folic acid I was taking. We'll see if that helps.

Jennie

,

>

> I read with interest the article you posted regarding folic acid

> administration while taking MTX. I am on MTX weekly and I started

taking extra B vitamins

> after reading several articles on the web about how folic acid

could possibly

> diminish the side effects of MTX. (At the same time I never thought

of the

> cardiac implications of MTX and RA.)

>

> Is anyone else on the list taking folic acid? (My doctor said it

would make

> no difference).The article mentioned 5 mg of Folic Acid. My

multivitamin has

> 400 micrograms and the extra B vitamins I take has another 400

micrograms. That

> is a far cry from 5 mg!! This must be a perscription only dose.

>

> Kathy

>

> In a message dated 07/07/2004 12:50:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> 1.. Griffith SM, Fisher J, e S et al. Do patients with

rheumatoid

> arthritis established on methotrexate and folic acid 5 mg daily

need to

> continue folic acid supplements long term?

> Rheumatology2000;39:1102-9.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

>

>

>