MTX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/16/2001 1:06:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

pjteach@... writes:

<< Someone on the

web suggested taking my MTX before going to bed, so I can sleep it off. >>

That's how I do mine Peggy - On a Sat. night so I have Sunday to recoup.

It's been working out pretty well. If I did it during the week I think I'd

have trouble at work the next day.

[Guest guest]

Babs wrote: " ...I do believe the mtx was a huge help to me at the

time and definitely assisted in easing the start of my AP

treatment... "

When I first started the AP a couple of months ago I was in terrible

pain. My PA was definitely spiralling downward and I was very

worried I would soon have serious damage. I was also so desperate

for relief from pain that I decided to take prednisone along with the

minocin & ibuprofen. My plan was to try to knock out the flare and

then to stop taking the prednisone eventually. I was able to wean

down from an initial 5 day dose of 20 mgs/day prednisone, to approx 3

mgs/day intermittently (3 days on 3 days off). 7 days ago I stopped

needing the prednisone entirely, although I'm still taking

ibuprofen. I don't know if the minocin has started to work or if the

prednisone is responsible (or maybe a bit of both), but I feel so

good now, compared to where I was 2 months ago. My shoulder is still

sore, but nothing like it was before and my morning and evening

stiffness/soreness is minimal. I can also walk easily again -- no

sore hips & legs and my hands feel normal again. So my conclusion is

that the prednisone definitely helped and I'd take it again on a

short term, low dose basis if necessary, while I wait to see if the

AP will work. I would also consider mtx if I was in worse shape.

Sharon

> I have seen posts from at least 10

> people who combined MTX with Minocin or Doxycycline and were

> evetually able to wean off of the MTX because the antibiotic began

> to work. Some PA or RA can be so aggressive that bone damage will

> occur very rapidly and it's necessary to take a strong DMARD that

> acts quickly more quickly than minocin to prevent this. Once bone

> damage occurs it is impossible to reverse it (except with surgery).

>

>

> I agree with Sharon. I was on methotrexate prior to AP. Other

than

> prednisone, it really did help get my RA under control at the

time. I was

> still on Mtx when I started Minocin - was weaned off. This worked

very well

> for me. Although it was the toxic effects of mtx and some negative

side

> effects that spurred me to search alternative treatment, I do

believe the mtx

> was a huge help to me at the time and definitely assisted in easing

the start

> of my AP treatment.

>

> Babs

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When first diagnosed (Feb 99) I was placed on MTX, Pred, Sulfasalazine, and a

couple of others which don't come to mind right at the moment. I did get a

little better with them, however, I did not feel I was progressing AND I did not

like all of the negative press I found regarding their side effects (some of

which I experienced). I searched for alternative methods, found the AP which I

started in Oct of 99. I think the doc let me start the AP to placate me. They

were pushing additional drugs on me but I didn't want to take any more of them.

I moved and got a new RD a few months later...she wanted to increase the MTX but

I objected...she said... " ...well, I'll write the prescription for the higher

amount but it's up to you. " ....I kind of took that as permission to start

weaning myself off the MTX and Sulfa which I did over a period of months...I

waited for the ax to fall but I actually seemed to be getting better quicker

once I dropped them....a year later I had a new RD and I explained I was now

only on Mino and pred...she asked why we had stopped the other drugs and I told

her " we " wanted to try an alternative method of treatment....she couldn't deny

that I was doing fairly well so she didn't push the arguement for the higher

power drugs...she did want me to start celebrex though to control the limited

inflammation I was experiencing...I obeyed and was actually glad I did...it

really seemed to help.

Over the next six months I weaned myself off prednisone (something my doc

again never knew). I have continued to get better.

OK...the p.s....a few months ago my back began to hurt a bit as well as one

of my shoulders...I've had to start up on prednisone again to try and get the

inflammation down. I am planning on cutting it back down a bit in the near

future and wean off completely...just want to treat this as naturally as

possible....is it the RA or just old age?.....don't know...but it's there...

Overall..I believe the AP has done me tons more good than the traditional

methods.

Tony

Re: Dr. Emil Wirostko's Death

Sharon wrote:

I have seen posts from at least 10

people who combined MTX with Minocin or Doxycycline and were

evetually able to wean off of the MTX because the antibiotic began

to work. Some PA or RA can be so aggressive that bone damage will

occur very rapidly and it's necessary to take a strong DMARD that

acts quickly more quickly than minocin to prevent this. Once bone

damage occurs it is impossible to reverse it (except with surgery).

I agree with Sharon. I was on methotrexate prior to AP. Other than

prednisone, it really did help get my RA under control at the time. I was

still on Mtx when I started Minocin - was weaned off. This worked very well

for me. Although it was the toxic effects of mtx and some negative side

effects that spurred me to search alternative treatment, I do believe the mtx

was a huge help to me at the time and definitely assisted in easing the start

of my AP treatment.

Babs

[Guest guest]

Hi Roseanne,

I agree with you - most DMARDs have long lists of terrible &

frightening side effects. I think that the reason most of us

decided to try the AP was to try to avoid those drugs. But after

reading many posts on the subject and researching the topic, my

conclusion is that the damage from RA & PA can be even more

destructive in the short term than the DMARDs. I think it's a

question paying close attention to the pace/progress of one's

disease. Very aggressive cases may need DMARDs. If a very painful

downward spiral is escalating and bone damage seems likely, I'd opt

for the DMARD in the short term. I've heard from many people that

extensive bone damage can happen very quickly, in a matter of just a

few weeks. It reminds me a bit of the stock market. It's hard to

speculate with accuracy and corrective action may not be possible.

I prefer to err on the side of caution and try to knock out flares

before they've gone too far. Of course I hope that the AP will work

and I'll soon be able to eliminate all other drugs. Meanwhile, my

short-term, low-dose course of prednisone seems to have done the

trick and I still feel so much better than I did before -- with only

ibuprofen. Every day I feel a bit better and need less ibuprofen...

Sharon

> Hello everybody, I'm sorry that some of the newcomers feel that

anything

> other than antibiotic therapy, is crusaded against here. I've

been part of

> this group for quite a while, sometimes lurking and sometimes

posting. I

> know that none of the precious helpful people here mean to make

you feel out

> in the cold. I also know that many people here are still

suffering with the

> effects of prednisone and MTX etc.. That is why alot of us are

here-to

> support those starting Ap therapy and to support those continuing

with the

> Ap through herxes and the 2 steps forward and 1 step back

approach. We

> know, all too well, the damage done by some of these other drugs

and when

> someone mentions starting one of them, you may see several posts,

really

> just meant to educate you on the dangers of these drugs. I'm sure

none of us

> meant to make you feel like suffering is a better choice. We just

know what

> it feels like to suffer low white blood cell counts years and

years after

> discontinuing MTX and prednisone is a whole different story of

life long

> side affects. Doctors don't tell you those things though, so we

try to

> educate the newcomers on the long term side affects of these

drugs. We are

> not trying to make anybody feel like they should hide in a cave if

they use

> another drug- HAHAHA. We don't want to hide the well known truths

about

> these drugs either though. I thank God that we have this group for

> antibiotic therapy and I thank God for the caring people who take

the time

> to respond every day to my posts and others.

> ~Roseanne~

[Guest guest]

I believe you are referring to folic acid.

Good luck with the MTX. I hope it brings you wonderful relief.

Kathy

> I remember reading something about taking a supplement with Mtx... but can't

> seem to find that in the archives..c ould someone help me? I start Mtx

> tom.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Take folic acid 1 mg everyday with MTX. I think that's what you're looking

for. Your rheumy should prescribe it for you.

Carol in Vancouver, Washington

In a message dated 2/28/03 6:06:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

> I remember reading something about taking a supplement with Mtx... but can't

> seem to find that in the archives..c ould someone help me? I start Mtx

> tom.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , I have to take folic acid every day. I take the methotrexate every

Monday. Maureen

Boyd <celticangyl@...> wrote:I remember reading something

about taking a supplement with Mtx... but can't seem to find that in the

archives..c ould someone help me? I start Mtx tom.

[Guest guest]

At 04:19 PM 2/28/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>I remember reading something about taking a supplement with Mtx... but

>can't seem to find that in the archives..c ould someone help me? I start

>Mtx tom.

Hi ,

You should be taking a folic acid supplement with methotrexate. Ask your

rheumatologist how much.

Elfstrom

[Guest guest]

hi,

maybe u mean folic acid. I take 400 mcg folic acid every week along with MTX.

Ghaida

[Ed. Note: I suggest you double check that with your rheumatologist Ghaida. Most

doctors recommend 1000 mcg DAILY (ie; 1 mg daily) of Folic acid while on MTX.

Ron]

Boyd <celticangyl@...> wrote:I remember reading something

about taking a supplement with Mtx... but can't seem to find that in the

archives..c ould someone help me? I start Mtx tom.

[Guest guest]

can't i get that over the counter?

----- Original Message -----

From: <cacombe@...>

> Take folic acid 1 mg everyday with MTX. I think that's what you're looking

> for. Your rheumy should prescribe it for you.

> Carol in Vancouver, Washington

[Guest guest]

I am SOOO frightened... supposed to start it this morning, but I'm afraid...

but I'm going to. My state insurance ran out yesterday, and new ins won't

kick in until April 1 (with no preexisting stuff thank goodness) and I only

have a lil of my vioxx left.. this could be a painful time!

[Guest guest]

,

I was the same way about the MTX...I kept it in my medicine cabinet for a long

time before getting the nerve to take it...it isn't bad at all. I am tired the

next day but other than that all is fine. I have had some mouth ulcers but the

meds the doctor gave me made them easy to deal with. So...good luck.

Robin, Penny, Chance, Heidi, and Hope (Florida)

http://www.geocities.com/goldens4life2000/index.html

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/28/2003 4:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

> I remember reading something about taking a supplement with Mtx... but can't

seem to find that in the archives..c ould

> someone help me? I start Mtx tom

I was going to try MTX and my doctor wanted my to take Folic acid with it. I

decided to go with the Embrel and start it in two days.

Janet

[Guest guest]

You might be able to get folic acid over the counter, but I'm not sure. Its

not a very expensive prescription even without insurance, possibly $8-10 for

30 1-mg tablets. If you find it over-the-counter, I don't what strength would

be available, if you can get it by itself, or how expensive it would be.

1000 mcg over-the-counter would be equivalent to 1 mg of prescription

strength.

Carol in Vancouver, Washington

In a message dated 3/1/03 7:52:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

> can't i get that over the counter?

>

[Guest guest]

my dermie wants me to try this, then see how it goes and incorporate enbrel

too

Re: [ ] mtx

> In a message dated 2/28/2003 4:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

>

> > I remember reading something about taking a supplement with Mtx... but

can't seem to find that in the archives..c ould

> > someone help me? I start Mtx tom

>

> I was going to try MTX and my doctor wanted my to take Folic acid with it.

I decided to go with the Embrel and start it in two days.

> Janet

>

>

>

> Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at:

> http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member

aka(raharris@...).

>

> In August 2001 list member Jack aka(Cornishpro@...) began to

conduct extensive research which he publishes as the Psoriatic Arthritic

Research Newsletter monthly in our emails and digest format. Many thanks to

Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage.

>

> Also remember that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of

information (Over two years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse

them at your convenience.

>

> Let's hear from some of you lurkers out there! If you have a comment or

question chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can

help you out with an educated guess for an answer. If not we can at least

steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to for the

answers.

>

> Blessings and Peace,

>

> Atwood-Stack, Founder

> Alan , Web & List Editor

> Jack , Newsletter Editor

> Pat Bias, List Editor

> Ron Dotson, List Editor

> and many others who help moderate (thank you!)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I found it today, 250 tablets for 4.99 and it was buy one get one... I have

to take 2.5 of them to equal the 1 mg, they're small so that's ok... so I

take them everyday to ease the possible side effects correct?

-

[Guest guest]

Robin,

That is because the Folic Acid helps the liver to metabolize the MTX much

easier. And yes, they should tell people that the Folic Acid makes the

taking of the MTX easier. Glad that it is helping you and hope that others

try it as well.

In a message dated 3/3/03 1:13:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

robinanne53@... writes:

> Hi there,

> I was getting sick on mtx....not everytime, but now and then. My doctor

> told me to take 5 folic acid pills the day following the MTX and he said I

> should feel much better. I have done that the last couple weekends, and he

> was right....no reaction to the MTX at all. Wish he would have told me

> about that sooner!!!!

> Robin (the other one-from California)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I was getting sick on mtx....not everytime, but now and then. My doctor told me

to take 5 folic acid pills the day following the mtx and he said I should feel

much better. I have done that the last couple weekends, and he was right....no

reaction to the mtx at all. Wish he would have told me about that sooner!!!!

Robin (the other one-from California)

------------------------

moderator 2 cents: Robin you might want to ask your Rheumy why he said 5 the day

after when the majority of Rheumys say to take one folic acid daily except for

the day you take your mtx. The folic acid counteracts the mtx I wonder if it has

a chance to work when you follow it by 5 folic acids. The once daily are

prescription strentgh of 1mg and maybe you are taking a lower strength of folic

acid?

PatB

[Guest guest]

Mtx really isn't anything to be afraid of. You won't be sick for long if at

all. I have read lots of people take Folic Acid with it. I'm going to ask my

dr. if he'll write a prescription for Folic Acid since I don't want to have to

gulp a bunch of over the counter pills. Boyd <celticangyl@...>

wrote:I am SOOO frightened... supposed to start it this morning, but I'm

afraid...

but I'm going to. My state insurance ran out yesterday, and new ins won't

kick in until April 1 (with no preexisting stuff thank goodness) and I only

have a lil of my vioxx left.. this could be a painful time!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/03 12:13:13 PM Central Standard Time,

robinanne53@... writes:

> The folic acid counteracts the mtx I wonder if it has a chance to work when

> you follow it by 5 folic acids PatB

> From what I have read the mechanism by which MTX works for psoriasis is

> different from how it works for cancer chemotherapy so that taking folic

> acid does not reduce the effectiveness of MTX in treating psoriasis as it

> would cancer. It is fine to take folic acid at the same time as MTX to

> avoid the side effects and does not reduce its effectiveness for psor.

> Orin

[Guest guest]

so far so good.... no sickness, no tiredness... just achiness for a few

hours after taking each dose... other than that... not bad... but then

again, on a beginning dose and skin already clearing up!!!

Re: [ ] mtx

>

> Mtx really isn't anything to be afraid of. You won't be sick for long if

at all. I have read lots of people take Folic Acid with it. I'm going to

ask my dr. if he'll write a prescription for Folic Acid since I don't want

to have to gulp a bunch of over the counter pills. Boyd

<celticangyl@...> wrote:I am SOOO frightened... supposed to start

it this morning, but I'm afraid...

> but I'm going to. My state insurance ran out yesterday, and new ins won't

> kick in until April 1 (with no preexisting stuff thank goodness) and I

only

> have a lil of my vioxx left.. this could be a painful time!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am so happy to read this... hopefully this will be your answer to all you are

going through with the PA and P for a while. I wish you the best!

In a message dated 3/4/2003 9:31:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

> so far so good.... no sickness, no tiredness... just achiness for a few

> hours after taking each dose... other than that... not

> bad... but then

> again, on a beginning dose and skin already clearing up!!!

[Guest guest]

awww thanks... it wasn't the exact route I wanted as you know... but I'm

willing to walk down this path for a while to see what it has to offer me.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!! Thanks again for the encouragement.

Re: [ ] mtx

> Hi ,

>

> I am so happy to read this... hopefully this will be your answer to all

you are going through with the PA and P for a while. I wish you the best!

>

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2003 9:31:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

celticangyl@... writes:

>

> > so far so good.... no sickness, no tiredness... just achiness for a few

> > hours after taking each dose... other than that... not

> > bad... but then

> > again, on a beginning dose and skin already clearing up!!!

>

>

> Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at:

> http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member

aka(raharris@...).

>

> In August 2001 list member Jack aka(Cornishpro@...) began to

conduct extensive research which he publishes as the Psoriatic Arthritic

Research Newsletter monthly in our emails and digest format. Many thanks to

Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage.

>

> Also remember that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of

information (Over two years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse

them at your convenience.

>

> Let's hear from some of you lurkers out there! If you have a comment or

question chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can

help you out with an educated guess for an answer. If not we can at least

steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to for the

answers.

>

> Blessings and Peace,

>

> Atwood-Stack, Founder

> Alan , Web & List Editor

> Jack , Newsletter Editor

> Pat Bias, List Editor

> Ron Dotson, List Editor

> and many others who help moderate (thank you!)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

didn't i just read recently one of the members having troubles with her

period while on mtx?? i have not had a period in 2 years. i was told it was

because

of my birth control. yesterday i had a big screaming fit. could not control

myself. today i started my period. i was at work, was on the phone with my

chiropractor's office and told them i had to hang up because i was going to cry.

i went to the bathroom and was crying and shaking for about 10 minutes. my pcp

thinks i should be seen. of coarse they do not have contract with my

insurance anymore. i called my rheumi and no response, my gyne will see me in a

week.

kathy in il

[Guest guest]

It was Susie (Elf), Kathy.

I hope the rheumatologist will call back tomorrow and see you

immediately.

I saw your other post regarding folic acid. Why doesn't she want you to

take it with your MTX?

Re: [ ] MTX

> didn't i just read recently one of the members having troubles with

her

> period while on mtx?? i have not had a period in 2 years. i was told

it was because

> of my birth control. yesterday i had a big screaming fit. could not

control

> myself. today i started my period. i was at work, was on the phone

with my

> chiropractor's office and told them i had to hang up because i was

going to cry.

> i went to the bathroom and was crying and shaking for about 10

minutes. my pcp

> thinks i should be seen. of coarse they do not have contract with my

> insurance anymore. i called my rheumi and no response, my gyne will

see me in a week.

> kathy in il