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said:

> I hope to be able to intertwine our programs for maximum language

training.

> The Lovaas format gives him the language, hopefully the S/P technique will

> help him understand and use the language spontaneously/functionally.

Dear and others, I recently watched a workshop of Dr. Carbone's

and the family was telling him that they were unsure if the child was

" comprehending " what was being taught. How Dr. Carbone responded really

made since to me...

He said: (not an exact quote!!) Do not view what we teach cognitively(in

our heads) but view it behaviorally (skills we need in life). As a

behavioralist, it is easier to view teaching as a set of behaviors that need

to be taught to be successful in life, instead of seeing if the child is

getting the cognitive understanding and concept meaning of a skill being

taught.

If you view things behaviorally, you need to think about how many skills you

are required to do in a classroom at one time (listening, looking, doing,

listening more, etc.).

Cognitive problems can not be taught. But good behavior teaching will

improve cognitive understanding.

In all actuality, if the problem is in the cognitive understanding, it is

the child's problem (behavioralist do not like to view things in this

light). If it is viewed in a functional behavioral aspect, the problem can

be solved in the teaching itself.

I do not want to confuse the issue but I would like the listers here to

understand that through our teaching and technique, cognitive abilities will

improve. Trying to figure out what is going on in that little head will

only confuse the issues. So try to look at your teaching in black and

white. Either he has is or he does not. If he does not, take a look at how

the skill is being taught, make sure you know the goal you are actually

looking for, and then take a look at how the skill is being taught (not

whether the child is getting it cognitively.)

I hope this helps and I hope that I have not blotched up Dr. Carbone's

explanation too much!

Rhonda

bbird098@...

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  • 8 months later...

<< I have been considering ritalin. >>

which promises permanent brain damage in return for temporary benefit -

perhaps why it is so popular with the same MD's who shoot kids full of

mercury.

Andy

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<< We had the mercury blood test done last week and it was negative for

mercury. >>

this test is always negative. Then the people somehow magically all have a

spontaneous remission after mercury detox.

Andy

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<< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

other than mercury? >>

Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

Andy

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<< Previous testing through the Great Plains Lab also

showed low levels of glutathione. >>

Testing through GP always shows that. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes it is

the opposite.

Andy

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Ok, so first I should do the hair test? and current hair would be

sufficient? Can you tell me what you mean about the download thing. And

where do I call?

Do you recommend any other testing?

Thank you so much for this information.

Carol Goodson

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Can someone give me some stats about how many people have done the treatments

to remove the mercury and what kind of results they are seeing. Also, what

regimen do you recommend following? Is this something I can just do, or do I

need a doctor? Should I start my son on DMSA. He is already taking 5000 IU

of cod liver oil a day, and melatonin at night.

Thanks,

Carol

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No I don't, but I suspect it may have something to do with a post I saw from

Amy about counting how many results are above or below reference ranges.

Re: [ ] introduction

<< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

other than mercury? >>

Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

Andy

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Andy,

Would you please explain what you mean by the counting rules?

Neena Garza

ngarza@...

Re: [ ] introduction

><< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

>months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

>other than mercury? >>

>

>Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

>can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>

>Andy

>

>

>

>

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Carol,

A blood test for mercury NOW will not in any way tell you if you son was

toxic during infancy when he would have been exposed if he recived

thimerosal containing vaccines. It will only tell you current exposure,

like if he had just eaten a tuna fish sandwitch. Half life of mercury in the

blood is approximately 50 days, them it becomes bound to the fatty tissues

in the body and will no longer be detected in the blood. The blood test was

a total was of money and time, unless they gave your child a chelating agent

before the test.

Lyn

[ ] introduction

> Hi,

>

> I am new here. My son is 5.9 years old. His development seemed quite

normal

> up to around 18 months. He was at his worst around 3. We learned he had

> severe milk allergy around 4. We had him tested also for gluten and

casein

> peptides -- negative. He started special ed at 4 with a diagnosis of

> language disorder. He does have sensory issues and I would say mild

autism

> (whatever that means). He has a recent medical diagnosis of PDD.

Although

> other professional evaluators disagree, and say he is NOT PDD and that is

a

> mislabeling. I have kept these labels out of his school paperwork. He is

> very intelligent. His language is now considered within normal range. At

5

> years old, he reads at a third grade level (completely self taught and

with

> comprehension). He no longer has an IEP and I am fearful of how he will

> handle himself socially. He definitely has problems with attention and

> focus, and I have been considering ritalin.

>

> We had the mercury blood test done last week and it was negative for

mercury.

> I refused his Kindergarten boosters with a religeous exemption.

>

> I am wondering what my next step should be. I have had little to no

support

> from doctors and insurance companies. But I plan to continue with

testing.

> I do not believe that my son was born with these issues.

>

> I also had an MRI done a couple of months ago, and was told it was

normal.

>

> Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

> months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for

something

> other than mercury?

>

> In reading the article at the ARI site regarding mercury poisoning, I find

> alot of my son there. Previous testing through the Great Plains Lab also

> showed low levels of glutathione.

>

> Is there a class action suit going on against the manufacturer of the Hep

B?

>

> Sorry for so many questions. Thanks.

>

> Carol Goodson

>

>

>

>

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> Andy,

In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have been hearing

about Doctor's data.

Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

>

> Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

> can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>

> Andy

>

>

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What part of Iowa are you in?

Re: [ ] introduction

>

>

>

>> Andy,

>

>In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

>numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

>

>Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have been

hearing

>about Doctor's data.

>

>

>Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

>>

>>

>> Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules

you

>> can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>>

>> Andy

>>

>>

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<< Would you please explain what you mean by the counting rules? >>

Statistical rules to interpret the Doctor's Data or Great Smokies hair

element analysis tests and decide if your kid is toxic. They can be

downloaded from the same place as the FAQ's. They are straightforward enough

you can sit down with the test results and the rules and decide what you

think.

Andy

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See message #5580 for counting rules for Great Smokies, and Andy's

opinion of them (OK, but report not as understandable and it's more

expensive)

>

>

>

> > Andy,

>

> In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you

read the

> numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

>

> Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have

been hearing

> about Doctor's data.

>

>

> Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

> >

> >

> > Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting

rules you

> > can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is

irrelevant.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> >

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<< In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data? >>

I believe it is reliable. The way they report the data makes it much more

difficult to interpret using the " counting rules " approach. Doctor's Data is

also a bit cheaper.

Andy

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June,

I salute you for being an active supporter of your grandchild's progress! So

nice to hear of a grandmother who cares enough about what her grandchild is

going through that she joins this e-mail list :). Many others could learn

from you.

Gaylen

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  • 2 weeks later...

>

>

>Hello. I am new to this list & new to the world of autism: dx of my

>2 1/2 yo son in 4/00. We are setting up a behavioral program as I

>type. I'm very excited. But after skimming some of the posts to

>this list, I am learning how very much more there is for me to

>learn. So lets start with an extrememly basic question (please don't

>laugh). What is a mand? Is it a " communication event " from the

>child? Also, I know about Lovaas & DTT. But I haven't learned a lot

>about Dr. Carbone, S/P, . Is there a place (web site, etc.)

>where I can get a good understanding of these people & theories?

>

Dear ,

I promise not to laugh at any of your questions, other than the one can you

trust most school districts. Of course that is not fair, because this may

not be the case in your area, and also it is too cynical for a parent of a

newly diagnosed child. ;-)

A mand is a request. It stems from the word, DEMAND or even perhaps, or

also COMMAND. Certainly my son is into those kinds of requesting. ;-)

It is a verbal behavior term which is a form or flavor of ABA. I like to

say that ABA is like a country, potentially powerful, a great ally to its

citizens and has many dialects. Verbal Behavior is a type of dialect in ABA

teaching. It is a communication event, although we do not call it that in

ABA, however for all practical purposes it starts a process or is an event

that allows the listener to react and ideally meet the child's needs.

Dr. Carbone is a professional in the field, a Ph.D., who specializes in

the Verbal Behavior dialect of ABA and works mostly with children with

autism, although addresses the needs of children and older individuals with

developmental disabilities as well or has in the past. He is a consultant,

so booked up, I would'nt bother, and works with a few schools and is

involved in the Jericho School in Florida on some level. He also is a

popular and highly in demand speaker, and is probably doing that more than

anything else at this point. He is one of many, although a limited many who

is a very dedicated professional in the field of autism who believes

language is first and foremost and everything else is taught simultaneously

and at a different pace and rate than most DTT and other kinds of ABA, but

follows the principles of ABA. He also deviates a tiny bit from some of his

colleagues in minor ways, but is knowledgable and intelligent. Most of the

parents who are working with him directly have been pleased with his

services. I would think he probably is way over extended at this point, but

this is my little commentary I am famous for, and could be jealousy

talking. Probably not. LOL

Actually, S/P stands for Sundberg and Partington, VB professionals who have

made the literature of this form of ABA understandable and implementable by

the general public, IF well understood, ideally supported and supervised by

somebody who is in the know and used judiously and I hope I spelled that

right. They wrote a book that is a bible on this list and is immensely

helpful. If you do not own it, buy it from DIFFERENT ROADS TO LEARNING.

I do not have the number on me right this second, probably because I am in

my nightgown, but she sells it and ships it out incredibly fast. I make no

commission unfortunately, so that is not why I am saying use her. She is a

fellow parent and a great person though, so feel free to purchase good ABA

materials from her. And all is really is the form of ABA that

utilizes DTT, both at the table or on the floor, trampoline, back yard,

living room couch and anywhere, as long as you follow the steps and have a

target in mind and get some where using the general definitions of DTT.

NET stands for Natural Environment Teaching and it means generalizing and

using the real world to either teach or more often expand and explore

concepts you are introducing more formally, especially as language gets a

bit stronger and you want to have some opportunities that you can not

manage in your house at the table. Bringing a large wild animal to your

house is tricky.

And the clean up is awful. Don't bother, just drive on over to your local

zoo. LOL

I hope your preschool is of benefit. Please do read everything you can

here. Depending on your families needs, supports, funding sources if any,

ability to involve other tutor/therapists, etc., you may want to think hard

about your glorified daycare. Some of the preschool places offer a nice

balance of socialization, push without too much pressure. But too many

offer a lack of structure and have low expectations for participation OR

the readiness of the child and their receptive and expressive abilities.

This may not be your problem, but do consider if his time can be better

utilized. It might be a nice break for you though and it may allow you to

have time to focus on other needs, so you can better focus on his program

with ABA, etc., after and really work on that more intensely, so you have

to consider yourself too.

Good Luck. We are rooting for you.

Jennie, mom of older kid by far...

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Hi ,

Any questions you have on here are very important. Never feel like others

might laugh at you. I have learned so much from this list I can't tell you.

Since ABA DTT is rather new to me too, only 3 months into it, I too have had

questions and gotten great answers on here.

I can add to what Jennie sent you in that I attended a workshop of Dr Mark

Sundbergs in March of this year. That is how I met Krista,(Dr Sundberg

recommended I talk with her) the therapist training me in ABA DTT. I have

to tell you his workshop was one of the greatest things I have ever done. He

too, like Dr Carbone, is totally committed to autism. I was fortunate enough

to talk with Mark for a bit privately and realized what a compassionate,

intelligent and committed man he is. That aside I do have his address,

website URL and the names of books you should have.

Mark L. Sunberg, Ph.D.

Behavior Analysts, Inc

3329 road

Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

www.corteks.com/stars

Books to get

The Assessment of Basic Language and learning skills (ABLLS)

W. Partington, PH.D and Mark L. Sundberg, PH.D

( this is a must pair of books, packaged together, since this is how you

track your child's progress)

Teaching Language to Children with Autism or Other Developmental

Disabilities

Mark Sundberg and Partington

Also make sure you get

A Work in Progress

Ron Leaf and McEachin, editors

I can't imagine life using ABA without this book. Everyone at the Sundberg

workshop told me this book was a must as also the ABLLS is. This book will

explain to you different things about Autism, plans, ideas, and about

everything you can imagine.

Mark Sundberg travels a great deal all over,doing workshops. I am from

Michigan and attended his workshop when my son had just been diagnosed. I

recommend you find out where he is (I know he is in Kalamazoo MI in a few

weeks)and try to go to his workshops. It will open your eyes to a great deal

of things.

As for school, please read all you can to prepare yourself on what may

happen. I never dreamed we would have to fight for a good education for my 5

year old son in public school. But we are now in the throws of it. As Jennie

said, preschool is nice for social interaction with " typical " peers, but a

great deal of time in it is time you lose to work with him and make

tremendous progress. Are you the one being trained to work with him using

ABA?

I hope some of this helped and look forward to hearing how things are going.

[ ] Introduction

>

> Hello. I am new to this list & new to the world of autism: dx of my

> 2 1/2 yo son in 4/00. We are setting up a behavioral program as I

> type. I'm very excited. But after skimming some of the posts to

> this list, I am learning how very much more there is for me to

> learn. So lets start with an extrememly basic question (please don't

> laugh). What is a mand? Is it a " communication event " from the

> child? Also, I know about Lovaas & DTT. But I haven't learned a lot

> about Dr. Carbone, S/P, . Is there a place (web site, etc.)

> where I can get a good understanding of these people & theories?

>

> My son is verbal, and is starting a regular " preschool " (glorified

> babysitting) on Monday w/ a shadow. I'm very excited about getting

> our program started, but my head is spinning from the brief training

> we did today. Thanks for your patience with a newcomer.

>

>

>

>

> VISIT www./community/ for informative FILES, LINKS page,

and ARCHIVE searches. You will need your password for egroups to use these

services.

>

>

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Are you a member of the me-list?

http://www.addr.com/~me-list

If you are, go to the me-list files page.

http://people.sca.uqam.ca/~sqa/prive/

The user and passwords are availabe on me-list posts.

If not, you should become a member to discuss setting up your program on

the me-list too.

> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:11:16 -0000

> From: " " <JulsFish@...>

>Subject: Introduction

>

>Hello. I am new to this list & new to the world of autism: dx of my

>2 1/2 yo son in 4/00. We are setting up a behavioral program as I

>type. I'm very excited. But after skimming some of the posts to

>this list, I am learning how very much more there is for me to

>learn. So lets start with an extrememly basic question (please don't

>laugh). What is a mand? Is it a " communication event " from the

>child? Also, I know about Lovaas & DTT. But I haven't learned a lot

>about Dr. Carbone, S/P, . Is there a place (web site, etc.)

>where I can get a good understanding of these people & theories?

>

--

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and Atmospheric Sciences et de l'atmosphère

University of Quebec at Montreal Universite du Quebec a Montreal

P.O.Box 8888, Stn " Downtown " B.P. 8888, Succ. " Centre-ville "

Montreal, Qc, Canada Montreal, Qc, Canada

H3C 3P8 H3C 3P8

Courier: Messagerie:

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Room PK-6425 or PK-6151 Salle PK-6425 ou PK-6151

Montreal, Qc, Canada Montreal, Qc, Canada

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Office 514-987-3000 ext 3304# Bureau

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E-Mail zwack.peter@... Addresse electronique

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ative | C | Centre

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Research in | R | Recherche en

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  • 6 months later...
Guest guest

welcome ruby, i'm kathy 41 in il . currently on enbrel, just gave up relefan

and about to begin methotrexate. home on disability right now going on my 4th

month, don't know how i will survive going back full time. also can't sit on

the floor anymore. having alot of trouble with steps too.

kathy

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Guest guest

Hi Ruby;

I was also diagnosed with RA 2+ years ago. I am 33 mother of 2 beautiful

daughters (like i'd actually say they were ugly lol). I too was to the point

I couldn't walk up and down stairs, sit on the floor even going to the

bathroom was a challenge. Please try to keep your spirits up even though it

is difficult if not impossible at times. My advice is keep looking for that

" perfect " doctor. They can really make a difference. I am currently on

Methotrexate, celebrex and folic acid. I have had great results from the

Methotrexate. I can walk and kinda run around with my kids and get up and

down off the floor (although it's not really graceful). If you ever need to

vent or talk just drop me a line.

Tammy in Missouri

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Guest guest

Kathy,Ruby, et. a.,

Sit on the floor-what a wonderful memory. Really, I've have gotten the

impression that we were all very active, busy people-pre-RA. As I was

laying in bed this morning after having managed a shower and washing my

hair, changing my abdominal bandaging and waiting for the Excedrin to kick

in for my fever, I was remembering just a few short years ago how I would be

out at a PTO meeting or other-always on the board of everything till 11 PM,

then couldn't go right to sleep and up again at 6:30, in the barn milking

goats with my son. " Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never

end! " Pardon me, I tend to think in song! Now I go to bed by 9 P.M., don't

volunteer for anything, am a terrible wife and mother and let the rest of

the family handle the early AM stuff. I hate it. My life was stolen as was

yours.

Temple

Kuddle Kritters Farm

3 Fox Haven Way

Chelmsford, MA 01824

dat2352@...

http://www.homestead.com/kuddlekrittersfarm/index.html

http://www.homestead.com/kuddlekraft/index.html

http://www.homestead.com/kuddlekrittersdairygoats/index.html

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Guest guest

Hi Ruby,

Welcome to this group. You will hear alot of great information and

receive tons of support. I 37 with 2 great kids. I work full time and

have experienced alot of pain in my hands, knees, feet, elbows and

neck over the last few months. I was diagnosed with RA on Feb. 19th

of this year. I went for my first Rheumy appointment on the 13th of

March, he told me I definantly have RA and tested positive for Lupus

and could possibly have Sjogrens. He put me on Relafen(750MG 3X a

day) He took some more blood and I go back on the 27th to see what my

prognosis is. I am praying that I dont have lupus or sjogrens, RA is

difficult enough to deal with. He said that my RA is slow

progression, but this past week i have been in pain every day. I was

using Aleve before the Relafen, and was told it takes a while to

build up in your system. Sometimes I am not even sure it is working

or am i just having a really bad flare. My Rheumy said he would not

put me on predisone, but probally MTX. I just want to feel better. I

am so tired of hurting, but I feel like I am a major whimp, because

most of the people on this list have been dealing with this for

years. I guess i have no room to complain. I just dont want to give

up the things i like to do like crocheting and quilting or my job.

But i am afraid i will. Take care,

a R

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Guest guest

Welcome Ruby,

I'm on enbrel & mtx also. I just started the mtx. I also take vioxx,

trazadone, fosamax and vicodan along with a few supplements. I know the

frustration of finding a good doctor. I have a web page for the group with

lots of links to information on the net. Here are the ones for finding a doctor

that is found on my page at:

http://rheumatoid.arthritis.freehosting.net

This link is at the bottom of each email for easy reference. I am planning on

relocating to Stuart, which is very close to you, so I may ask you for

references for a good doctor!

a

AMA Physician Select AMA Physician Select provides information on virtually

every licensed physician in the United States and its possessions, including

more than 650,000 doctors of medicine (MD) and doctors of osteopathy or

osteopathic medicine (DO).

American College of Rheumatology Physician finder

The Right Doctor For You It's one of the most critical decisions we make.

Our lives may even depend on it. Even so, choosing a doctor isn't usually met

with any more attention than choosing a hairstylist or a plumber from the yellow

pages.

DocFinder Association of State Medical Board Executive Directors

The Doctor Directory Find a physician anywhere in the U.S.

----- Original Message -----

From: petrapuma@...

Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:02 PM

Subject: [ ] Introduction

Im new to the list. I'm 30 years old I've had RA for 3 years now & getting

worse. I have seen numerous rhuematologists & been on numerous drugs. I'm not

happy with the doctors & right now my current mix is Enbrel, Prednisone,

hydroxychloriquin, naproxen(been off it for a while) & arthrotec with makes

me very sick to my stomach.

So any advice is wanted & appreciated. First, if anybody lives in West Palm

bch, Fl I need a new doctor, one I can trust. Any information anyone can

give me about this disease is helpful as none of the 5 doctors I've been to

over the years would take the time to explain what is going on with my body.

I'm alittle better since I persuaded my last doctor to put me on Enbrel but I

have terrible pain in my knees, the fill up with fluid so rapidly ( I can no

longer walk up stairs or sit on the floor) & I still have flairups in my

hands several times a week. I'm working part time because I can no longer

handle a full day. I look forward to reading the list daily.

Ruby

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