Butter

[Guest guest]

--, warm milk is separated(with a centrifuge) right after

straining. Straining comes after milking and hopefully fairly soon.

Then everything is refrigerated(milk and cream) and butter can be

made later when you get enuf cream to make the amount of butter your

churn can handle.

Of course you then wash and dry the separator with about 20 gallons

of water and 15 minutes or more of your spare time.Slightly sour

cream can be mixed with sweet cream to make butter or you can make

sweet cream butter( sweet cream has a titrable acidity <0.17 , I

believe are the specs for sweet cream). When milk starts to sour it

tastes like the cow smells it seems to me. And that flavor will

POSSIBLY carry over into the butter.That's my organoleptic opinion!

Dennis

- In , " laurainnewjersey "

<laurabusse@j...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> we have been discussing this over on rawdairy for a few days now.

>

> here's what we've learned:

>

> that 'gamey' taste is very prevalent in the amish/mennonite

butter.

> this is because they don't refrigerate their cream while they're

>

[Guest guest]

My dairy farmer said once that she separates the cream from the milk while

it is still warm because it separates better when it is warm. She does use

a separator, too, and her cream is really thick - like you have to scoop it

with a spoon. There may be some practicle reasons such as this why the

Amish/Mennonite farmers make their butter while everything is still warm.

Commercial dairies with more modern equipment are able to cool the milk down

very quickly right after milking - I think the cooling begins in the pipes

before it even reaches the tank - and this helps also to keep the flavor

more mild. Of course, they aren't concerned with separating their milk as

they sell in bulk to the processor.

Vivian

[Guest guest]

> My dairy farmer said once that she separates the cream from the

milk while

> it is still warm because it separates better when it is warm.

><><><><><><<>><><<>Ditto.

She does use

> a separator, too, and her cream is really thick - like you have to

scoop it

> with a spoon. There may be some practicle reasons such as this

why the

> Amish/Mennonite farmers make their butter while everything is

still warm.

>

<><<><><><<><>Cream needs to be above 55F to make butter. To store

it, keep it under 40F. Ever taste homemade ice cream that tastes

buttery? This happens when you start cranking the ice cream mix

when the mix is too warm, ie >55F.

> Commercial dairies with more modern equipment are able to cool the

milk down

> very quickly right after milking - I think the cooling begins in

the pipes

<><><><><><><><Only because the milk is approx. 105F and the pipes

are cooler. The milk does go straight to a cooling tank with an

agitator which doesn't always get turned on as it's supposed to.

Operator problems!

> before it even reaches the tank - and this helps also to keep the

flavor

> more mild. Of course, they aren't concerned with separating their

milk as

> they sell in bulk to the processor.

>

><><>>However they are concerned about keeping it from souring.

Vivian

[Guest guest]

> My dairy farmer said once that she separates the cream from the

milk while

> it is still warm because it separates better when it is warm. She

does use

> a separator, too, and her cream is really thick -

<><><><><><><What is the temp of this thick cream? 40F? or 105F?

Thick 40F cream does not separate(centrifuge) very well or maybe not

at all. Dennis

like you have to scoop it

> with a spoon. There may be some practicle reasons such as this

why the

> Amish/Mennonite farmers make their butter while everything is

still warm.

>

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

straining? milk is strained? for what?

so the cows are milked, the warm milked is strained and then

cetrifuged? i presume the amish and mennonites let time separate

it 'the old fashioned way' without centrifuging it.

you sound very technical...are you a farmer with all the latest

technology?

i should know what oganoleptic means but i forget.

thanks, dennis.

laura

> --, warm milk is separated(with a centrifuge) right after

> straining. Straining comes after milking and hopefully fairly soon.

> Then everything is refrigerated(milk and cream) and butter can be

> made later when you get enuf cream to make the amount of butter

your

> churn can handle.

> Of course you then wash and dry the separator with about 20 gallons

> of water and 15 minutes or more of your spare time.Slightly sour

> cream can be mixed with sweet cream to make butter or you can make

> sweet cream butter( sweet cream has a titrable acidity <0.17 , I

> believe are the specs for sweet cream). When milk starts to sour

it

> tastes like the cow smells it seems to me. And that flavor will

> POSSIBLY carry over into the butter.That's my organoleptic opinion!

> Dennis

[Guest guest]

....so THAT'S how they get the cream so thick. i was wondering about

that; it never gets that thick when it sits atop the milk, even if it

sits there in the fridge for 2 weeks.

laura

> My dairy farmer said once that she separates the cream from the

milk while

> it is still warm because it separates better when it is warm. She

does use

> a separator, too, and her cream is really thick - like you have to

scoop it

> with a spoon. There may be some practicle reasons such as this why

the

> Amish/Mennonite farmers make their butter while everything is still

warm.

>

> Commercial dairies with more modern equipment are able to cool the

milk down

> very quickly right after milking - I think the cooling begins in

the pipes

> before it even reaches the tank - and this helps also to keep the

flavor

> more mild. Of course, they aren't concerned with separating their

milk as

> they sell in bulk to the processor.

> Vivian

[Guest guest]

Vivian,

i plan to make butter soon cuz i can't find any raw butter that

actually tastes good, without that funny taste from souring.

to prevent any souring at all, i was going to make as soon possible

after getting fresh milk, separate the cream, keep it cold, and make

the butter while the cream is cold.

what will happen if i do that?

i was going to put it in a bowl and mix it with a hand mixer like i

was making whipped cream, but just keep going til it turns into

butter.

it WILL turn into butter, right? or will i have to keep whipping it

til it gets over 55 degrees?

thanks.

laura

Cream needs to be above 55F to make butter. To store

> it, keep it under 40F. Ever taste homemade ice cream that tastes

> buttery? This happens when you start cranking the ice cream mix

> when the mix is too warm, ie >55F.

However they are concerned about keeping it from souring.

> Vivian

[Guest guest]

I make raw butter every week and i never heard about this temp. thing. I

take my cream from the fridge and put it straight into the food processor

and it works great. I wosh it in there to but adding fresh water and then

draining over and over (can't get all the water out this way though).

Anyway, maybe it warms up in the processor. I prefer the butter that is made

from very fresh cream. Definitely sweet.

Elaine

> to prevent any souring at all, i was going to make as soon possible

> after getting fresh milk, separate the cream, keep it cold, and make

> the butter while the cream is cold.

>

> what will happen if i do that?

>

> i was going to put it in a bowl and mix it with a hand mixer like i

> was making whipped cream, but just keep going til it turns into

> butter.

>

> it WILL turn into butter, right? or will i have to keep whipping it

> til it gets over 55 degrees?

>

> thanks.

>

> laura

>

> Cream needs to be above 55F to make butter. To store

>> it, keep it under 40F. Ever taste homemade ice cream that tastes

>> buttery? This happens when you start cranking the ice cream mix

>> when the mix is too warm, ie >55F.

>

> However they are concerned about keeping it from souring.

>

>> Vivian

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

We go for the best unsalted, cultured butter we can find ... which unfortunately

is neither pasture fed nor organic but tastes superior than any other. Following

is an interesting post on the subject of cultured butter excerpted from HGTV:

" Dear Lynne: Why is butter salted? What is cultured butter? How long can I keep

butter? And is any butter worth $5 a pound? -- Inquiring Minds Need to Know

Dear Inquiring Minds: You are covering the waterfront. Five dollars a pound

makes sense only if you think the butter is extraordinary. If so, consider it an

affordable luxury -- several extra dollars every few weeks deliver small

pleasures every day. Store butter tightly wrapped up to two weeks in the

refrigerator, one year in the freezer.

Salting butter delays spoilage and covers its flavor as rancidity develops.

Unsalted butter smells sour or " cheesy " when rancid, which is why professional

cooks prefer it. They know immediately when their butter is " off. "

The European tradition of cultured butter evolved naturally from times when raw

cream was churned into butter. The cream contained lactic-acid-producing

bacteria that is naturally present in raw milk, but now is added to the

pasteurized cream everyone uses. This bacteria and other cultures " ripen " the

cream, coaxing out nutlike, floral aromas and flavors.

Taste is everything in butter, and each cultured butter is an individual. These

brands get consistently high marks: America's Organic Valley European-Style

Cultured Butter, Plugra (which I find lacking taste but others love), Vermont

Butter and Cheese Company Butter, France's President Unsalted Butter and the

beloved Beurre d'Isigny. "

Cheers ... & Carey

[Guest guest]

Kieth, what is HGTV?

but i need another list to subscribe to like i need a hole in the head.

laura

--- In , Waymark <kwaymark@s...>

wrote:

> We go for the best unsalted, cultured butter we can find ... which

unfortunately is neither pasture fed nor organic but tastes superior

than any other. Following is an interesting post on the subject of

cultured butter excerpted from HGTV:

[Guest guest]

$5 a pound LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pay $10-12 a pound for my raw butter.

>Five dollars a pound

> makes sense only if you think the butter is extraordinary. If so, consider

> it an affordable luxury -- several extra dollars every few weeks deliver

> small pleasures every day.

[Guest guest]

On Thursday, May 5, 2005, at 10:38 AM, Elaine wrote:

> I make raw butter every week and i never heard about this temp. thing.

> I

> take my cream from the fridge and put it straight into the food

> processor

> and it works great. I wosh it in there to but adding fresh water and

> then

> draining over and over (can't get all the water out this way though).

> Anyway, maybe it warms up in the processor. I prefer the butter that

> is made

> from very fresh cream. Definitely sweet.

> Elaine

I just received instructions from the gal that delivered my raw milk.

She said to put the milk in the fridge in a stainless steel bowl with

plastic wrap over it for a couple days and the cream would come to the

top. She said just scoop the cream off the top and then let it come to

room temperature and then put it in the mixer using the whisk and watch

for the butter to separate from the butter milk and when you see a ball

starting just stop the mixer and take the butter out and squeeze the

excess milk out and you have butter! Could it really be that easy?

Sandy

[Guest guest]

Dennis-

>

> <><><><><><><What is the temp of this thick cream? 40F? or 105F?

> Thick 40F cream does not separate(centrifuge) very well or maybe not

> at all. Dennis

**************

That thick cream is already separated and cooled (refrigerated). Sometimes

I buy a pint or so to make ice cream or larger quantities of whipped cream.

I usually have to dilute it a bit with milk to be able to use it. Haven't

bought any in a while and I'm curious if the season has anything to do with

the consistency of the cream.

Vivian

[Guest guest]

Vivian,

>

> i plan to make butter soon cuz i can't find any raw butter that

> actually tastes good, without that funny taste from souring.

>

> to prevent any souring at all, i was going to make as soon possible

> after getting fresh milk, separate the cream, keep it cold, and make

> the butter while the cream is cold.

*************

Hi ,

I've only made butter once or twice and I don't *remember* bothering to

bring the cream to room temp. Don't think you can hurt anything, though, so

give it a try cold and see how it goes.

I remember the butter I made tasting good when first made, but after a

couple days in the frige, it started getting cheesy, and that flavor just

got stronger as it aged. If/when I try again, I might try storing the

butter in small containers and putting the extra in the freezer and keeping

a small container in the refrigerator that is only one-three days worth

supply.

Have fun in the kitchen!

Vivian

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " laurainnewjersey " <laurabusse@...>

> Dennis,

>

> straining? milk is strained? for what?

*********

Mmmm, never asked for particulars, but always guessed it might be for bits

of fur or any other such things that might find their way into the milk.

Truly a guess. Anyone know for sure?

Vivian

[Guest guest]

If you wash your butter well it won't get that cheesy flavor.

Elaine

> I remember the butter I made tasting good when first made, but after a

> couple days in the frige, it started getting cheesy, and that flavor just

> got stronger as it aged. If/when I try again, I might try storing the

> butter in small containers and putting the extra in the freezer and keeping

> a small container in the refrigerator that is only one-three days worth

> supply.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vivian,

a dear soul here or on raw dairy (i think it was rawdairy actually)

and i hope she'll forgive me for forgetting her name, but she said

she makes butter just about every day, just enough for that day, and

that she shakes it in a jar for 10-15 min while her kids are playing

soccer and she is reading.

isn't that a good solution?

laura

> I remember the butter I made tasting good when first made, but

after a

> couple days in the frige, it started getting cheesy, and that

flavor just

> got stronger as it aged. If/when I try again, I might try storing

the

> butter in small containers and putting the extra in the freezer and

keeping

> a small container in the refrigerator that is only one-three days

worth

> supply.

>

> Have fun in the kitchen!

> Vivian

[Guest guest]

> > --, warm milk is separated(with a centrifuge) right after

> > straining. Straining comes after milking and hopefully fairly

soon.

> > Then everything is refrigerated(milk and cream) and butter can

be

> > made later when you get enuf cream to make the amount of butter

> your

> > churn can handle.

> > Of course you then wash and dry the separator with about 20

gallons

> > of water and 15 minutes or more of your spare time.Slightly sour

> > cream can be mixed with sweet cream to make butter or you can

make

> > sweet cream butter( sweet cream has a titrable acidity <0.17 ,

I

> > believe are the specs for sweet cream). When milk starts to

sour

> it

> > tastes like the cow smells it seems to me. And that flavor will

> > POSSIBLY carry over into the butter.That's my organoleptic

opinion!

> > Dennis

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

thanks for answering all my questions.

now, what is QC?

forgive my ignorance.

laura

Organoleptic is a " fancy " word used in QC to indicate flavor and

> aroma. Dennis

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/20/2005 9:32:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

writes:

Is it all right to use butter for cooking?

Butter is one of the better fats to use for cooking, although it is even

better if you add your fat/oil after cooking. Butter burns easily, so keep your

heat low.

It would be great if this group had a good file on oils. It's such a complex

topic, and there are so many different views on which oils are best to eat,

which are best to heat, etc. I read the Udo book, " Fats that Heal, Fats that

Kill " , but he sells his own oil, so I don't know if he is correct with

everything. He attributes the health of the horsemen of the Caucasus to mares'

milk,

and says cows' milk is inferior. He may be right about that, but I think it

is more the kefir that they used than the milk. I sure could be wrong, though.

Peg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/2005 3:57:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

writes:

The Weston Price Foundation takes a rather dim view of Udo's book.

I was fishing for that. I suspected he'd been debunked to an extent. Is

there a short explanation of why the Foundation disagrees with him, or what in

particular they think he is wrong about? Thank you.

Peg

[Guest guest]

On 7/21/05, pegkem@... <pegkem@...> wrote:

I read the Udo book, " Fats that Heal, Fats that

> Kill " , but he sells his own oil, so I don't know if he is correct with

> everything.

The Weston Price Foundation takes a rather dim view of Udo's book.

http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/fat_kills.html

[Guest guest]

On 7/21/05, pegkem@... <pegkem@...> wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 7/21/2005 3:57:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> The Weston Price Foundation takes a rather dim view of Udo's book.

>

>

>

> I was fishing for that. I suspected he'd been debunked to an extent. Is

> there a short explanation of why the Foundation disagrees with him, or what in

> particular they think he is wrong about? Thank you.

>

> Peg

The review I posted is very short and quickly lays out why they think

he is wrong. In a nutshell, way too much emphasis on PUFA's and

non-traditional oils. Coincidentally he apparently has sold vegetable

oils for some time.

Hope that helps.

[Guest guest]

Ann wrote:

>

>I can't have butter. I react to it.

==>You can probably have ghee or butter oil which have the proteins

in butter removed, which is what you are reacting to - see the

Butter, Butter Oil & Ghee Folder in our files to find out more about

it and how to make it from regular unsalted butter.

>I assume that means coconut oil. Anything else I should know?

==>Ensure you are eliminating all " bad " oils and fats which act like

plastic in the body and are very toxic, including margarines and

vegetables oils, except extra virgin olive oil. You do need the kind

of saturated fats contained in butter, lard and other similar

saturated fats which provide different benefits than coconut oil,

i.e. that is in addition to coconut oil.

>I also have gas and indigestion from hamburger, because I never eat

red meat, though I gave it a try. I assume I> shouldn't add red meat.

==>That doesn't mean you are allergic to it. When candida is killed

off it releases a lot of carbon dioxide which causes gas and

indigestion. Maybe you need to eat it with more fat to help

digestion, and you might need digestive enzymes such as Betaine HCl

with pepsin - see the Digestion Folder for how to test for low

stomach acid and how to regulate how many digestive enzymes to take.

>>I'd really rather not. Or, do you recommend slowly adding it until

my body adjusts? How do I know the difference between something my

body is allergic to and something it's just not used to?

==>If you are having difficulty digesting " good " hamburger, which is

from cows that have been fed their normal diet (organic or certified

organic), and not grains or soy, and the cows haven't been given

antibiotics, growth hormones, vaccines, pesticide-laden foods, etc.

then there is no reason it would cause an allergy.

==>Allergies are very misunderstood because healing reactions are the

same symptoms as allergic reactions, so people mistakenedly believe

they are allergic to " good " foods when the good foods are merely

helping their body heal, causing healing reactions. You can eat

other red meats if you do not feel comfortable with beef, such as

bison, which I find is delicious and more tasty than beef. But you

could introduce beef slowly and see how it goes. The same goes for

reactions to any really good foods - start with smaller amounts and

gradually increase them. The same also goes for taking supplements,

herbs or anything for that matter. If you get sick taking a normal

amount cut back and gradually increase it.

==>I had an interesting experience with this concept when I was given

herbs to heal my ulcers. I took two capsules, which was the normal

dose, but it made me violently ill. My naturopath said it is too

strong for you right now, but start with a pinch and gradually

increase it, taking plenty of time. I did that and within 2 months I

was finally about to take a normal dose. Viola!

Luv, Bee

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info Kayla. I've never heard of Rumiano, but I'm in

the northeast so that might be why.

I went to pick up some Kerrygold today and they're still out! Its

been over a week!

There are dozens of other imported butters at Wegmans (Danish, French,

English), and I didn't know which to choose from. I ended up picking

on that was packaged in wax paper that I could see a nice yellow color

though - it also happened to be the most expensive one on the shelf.

(Figures.) It says its naturally churned with crystal sea salt. I'll

post when I try it to let you know if its any good.

Are there any other known grass-fed brands of butter out there?

-Lana