Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 > Reviewer: Byrnes (see more about me) from Honolulu, HI United States > This book is well-written and provides an excellent synopsis of Dr. Weston Price's research into traditional diets from many peoples around the world. Dr. Schmid writes lucidly and shows the benefits and limitations of traditional diets in treating various diseases. > The book goes wrong, like so many others, in its demonization of saturated fat. Schmid is simply wrong about saturated fats causing heart disease, cancer, and ill health in general. He is also wrong in asserting that our ancestors did not eat a lot of saturated fat. This is strange coming from someone who is so obviously familiar with Price's research which showed every population group to be eating diets rich in saturated fats and these people, as Schmid knows, were supremely healthy. Kris: I wonder if Dr. Byrnes was reading an older edition of the book? I have the 1997 version and I don't see this demonization of saturated fat in my copy. Like so many of us I think Dr. Schmidt's thinking has evolved. He was after all a major exhibitor at the Wise Traditions conference in D.C. in April. Just to quote a couple places from the book: " Excessive amounts of fat in America's meat and Dairy animals do contribute to the development of disease. But confusion has resulted from a failure to recognize that the inferior quality of modern animals and their fats is the real problem " p 13 Regarding Atkins' diet: " The Quality of the animal-source foods used is nevertheless an important issue. The Atkins diet in particular stresses the use of fatty foods; the book present evidence that refined carbohydrates rather than animal fats are the villains in the American diet. There is truth in this, but as we have seen, fats in modern commercial animals and milk products are very different in quantity and kind from those in animals living under more natural conditions. " p.88 " Adequate amounts of fat-soluble nutrients of animal origin and sufficient raw foods must be included and the bulk of the diet consists of vegetables, grains, and fish. Varying amount of other animal-source foods are recommended, depending on the availability of meats, eggs, and dairy foods of sufficient quality. " p. 101 I still say this book is a good summary of a lots of the ideas we have been discussing, especially if you are trying to get a reluctant family member to read something. I notice that the book is not listed on the WAP website, either as recommended or not recommended. I wonder about that. You might want to check out his short course on nutrition at his website: http://www.drrons.com/nutrition_short_course.html " Now, what were the foods that were considered most important for woman and men who wished to conceive a child, for pregnant women, and for growing children? Price studied this in great depth. His answer, based on his careful observations, is that two different groups of foods were considered absolutely essential in every culture throughout the world. Those two groups are: 1.. Seafood; fish and shellfish, and 2.. Meats, especially organ meats, from wild animals, or grass-fed domestic animals. " A third group was considered essential in the few cultures that kept dairy animals, and that group was milk, cheese, and butter from grass-fed animals. " So those are the foods that native people everywhere said were most important for their strength and health, and for making perfect babies. We know now that these foods all are incredibly rich in fat soluble vitamins A, D, and E, in essential fatty acids, and in EPA and DHA, as well as a host of other nutrients that I'll detail later. " This is confusing for many people. We've been told by the processed food industry , by the supposed scientists they employ, and by the media they advertise in, that animal fats are bad for us. Let's set aside their propaganda, and look at it objectively. " Let me put it in a commonsense way: It all depends on the quality of the animal. That's to say that the quality of the food that comes from an animal depends on the quality of the animal's life. The animal's food and environment completely determines the quality of the food that comes from the animal -not to mention the chemicals it may have been fed, sprayed with, and injected with. " Cows, steers, goats, and sheep are ruminants. They're designed by nature to eat grass. Meat, raw milk, eggs, and butter from healthy, grass fed organic animals are wonderful foods. Fish is wonderful food, although care should be taken to secure fish from relatively unpolluted waters. The fatty part of all these foods carries essential nutrients! These foods, together with fresh organic vegetables and fruits, and in some cultures whole grains, constitute the primitive diet. What emerges is that it's not animal fats that are causing our modern problems. It's refined foods. We actually suffer from a lack of the nutrients our ancestors got from healthy animal fats. " Peace, Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio If you want to hear the good news about butter check out this website: http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 What type of cows does your farmer have? And would all Holsteins be considered modern? Astrid ----- Original Message ----- From: soilfertility <ynos@...> < > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Bread And Related Issues > --- In @y..., " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chi, why ask " what kind of cow do you have " ? > > In other words I find it hard to believe milk from > > Jersey's is the only acceptable milk! Dennis > > Hi Dennis: > I asked the farmer what kind of cow he had to make sure he didn't > have holsteins. I wouldn't drink milk from a modern holstein. > Btw, my farmer does not have Jerseys, so I agree with your statement. > Chi > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 --- In @y..., " Astrid Froese " <astrid.froese@s...> wrote: > What type of cows does your farmer have? And would all Holsteins be > considered modern? > Hi Astrid: Answers: 1/ Canadienne 2/ Yes, unless they are over 70 years old. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 soilfertility wrote: > I am not concerned with phytic acid. I am not concerned with what is > in my food, I am concerned with what isn't in my food. But if phytic acid limits what you get from food, eating food with it defeats the purpose of eating high soil fertility food. Also, do you think then it's safe to eat lots of trans fatty acids as long as you get whatever you think is important to get? Roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 biophile410 wrote: > 4. How does one test for insulin resistance (which I believe he may have)? Fasting insulin level test can be used for that, according to http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/14/insulin.htm Roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 > But if phytic acid limits what you get from food, eating > food with it defeats the purpose of eating high soil fertility > food. Also, do you think then it's safe to eat lots of trans > fatty acids as long as you get whatever you think > is important to get? Hi Roman: The main message I got from reading " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " was that it wasn't what what in our food that killed us, but rather that it was what wasn't in our food that killed us. Thus, unlike most people, I am not concerned with what is known to be in my food, but rather what is not known to absent from my food. Do you think the 14 isolated, healthy groups of people Price found were concerned with what was in their food? Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 Robin, It doesn't look like anyone has answered your question. Phytates are substances that bind tightly with minerals in the shell of a seed to protect that seed until it is the right conditions for sprouting, that is it makes the seed keep for a long time. But since it binds the minerals they are not available as nutrients in that food/grain unless the seed is treated in such a way that it thinks it is time to sprout - i.e. soaking in water in a warm place. I would presume that the whey with its lactic acid provides a healthy satisfactory condition for the soaking Peace, Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio If you want to hear the good news about butter check out this website: http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <Nest4Robin@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Bread and related issues > Ahhh, I don't know what a phylate is...so what is it? > Robin > > <<so > people were thinking along those lines too even if they didn't know what > a phytate > was.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 --- Grain sorghum(milo) doesn't cross-pollinate with wheat. The milo I referred to was a hybrid milo though. I'd rather have a non-hybrid grain, if, for no other reason than being able to plant my own seeds (grown previous season). Milo is not hard to grow. It is grown in Kansas using row crop machinery and a combine ($375) to harvest. Or you could harvest small amounts by hand with a knife for chickens. It is very very itchy to harvest though using a combine w/o an air conditioned cab. $375 combines are mostly not air conditioned. Dennis In @y..., Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...> wrote: > > ??? Does sorghum hybrid with wheat??? If so this is bad news for some of us > ... I have > some sorghum grains and it sure LOOKS different from wheat. Is it hard to > grow? I have a bunch > of land I'll need to plant with something when I get the chickens moved. > > I agree about fresh grain though. And fresh grinding. I get my sorghum > flour very fresh and > freeze it, and it really tastes good. I ground some fresh wheat flour once > and it wasn't bad -- > though I personally don't dislike the taste of wheat, it dislikes ME. > > -- Heidi > > At 10:10 PM 6/24/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >--- I'm wondering if you folks who dislike the taste of wheat flour > >have used fresh wheat in your products. I realize age of wheat > >probably doesn't change the gluten profile significantly however the > >flavor of fresh wheat is much different than old warehoused grain. I > >grew a little hybrid, no chemicals added, grain sorghum (milo) a few > >years ago, and noticed it tasted sweet and had a good enough flavor, > >that I kept eating it thruout the day while harvesting. Since you > >mentioned it Heidi, I've been wanting to grind some and make some of > >your bread/pastry products. I'd also like to grow some non-hybrid milo > >this summer to bake with later but have to find some seed soonest to > >do it. Anyway thanks Heidi for your modified recipes and others too. > >Just wondering about your wheat quality cause fresh wheat berries have > >a very tasty nutty flavor. Dennis > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 At 10:42 PM 7/1/2002 +0000, you wrote: >--- Grain sorghum(milo) doesn't cross-pollinate with wheat. The milo >I referred to was a hybrid milo though. I'd rather have a non-hybrid >grain, if, for no other reason than being able to plant my own seeds >(grown previous season). Milo is not hard to grow. It is grown in >Kansas using row crop machinery and a combine ($375) to harvest. Or >you could harvest small amounts by hand with a knife for chickens. It >is very very itchy to harvest though using a combine w/o an air >conditioned cab. $375 combines are mostly not air conditioned. >Dennis Dennis: Ok, you got me REAL curious. You can buy a combine for $375? I can't buy a rototiller for that. Or you mean you can rent one? Or it comes with a driver? I don't think my little garden could hold any kind of combine. What is milo? Why would you feed it to chickens? I eat the sorghum, the chickens can have something yecchy, like wheat :-) Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Well, if you don't want to know, then don't read the next sentence. It's a combination of glandular (pituitary and hypothalamus, in this case) extracts, most likely bovine source. Roman > > > I am > > working on healing my thyroid through proper food preparation and > > supplementation. I'm really hoping that I will eventually be able to > > get off my medication. If anyone else has any information at all > > that might help me, please pass it along. > > Check out > https://www.dcnutrition.com/products/Detail.CFM?RecordNumber=240 -- > the product is made by a much praised Biotics Research. > > Roman > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 --- Milo and grain sorghum are the same grains, in Kansas and elsewhere, too I think. But that's why I was asking about them earlier cause I hadn't heard of baking with milo. We have customers which send grain sorghum (cracked and enriched) to developing nations, however I didn't think they'd be baking with it. You can plant the milo seeds by broadcasting on spring soil w/o even rototilling if you wanted. The seed would come up similar to and compete with the native plants unless you're too far north. Or you could plant wheat in fall to have a winter covercrop and broadcast the milo in spring. I'm not quite sure of the timing in the north and there might be a better covercrop. And like I mentioned, you could harvest small amounts of milo by hand somewhat easily. I don't feed milo to the layers cause it is a little low in protein and therefore has to be supplemented to prevent hens from molting. I get along ok feeding straight whole wheat and table scraps to them during summer months when they're free rangeing in the pasture/ fields. Yes an old combine here can be $300- $400 here but you wouldn't want one for a garden most likely. Can you identify grain sorghum berries? they are about BB size(.177 caliber), round and are orange/red in color. The main reason it's fed to chickens is it's usually less expensive than other grains. Dennis In @y..., Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...> wrote: > At 10:42 PM 7/1/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >--- Grain sorghum(milo) doesn't cross-pollinate with wheat. The milo > >I referred to was a hybrid milo though. I'd rather have a non-hybrid > >grain, if, for no other reason than being able to plant my own seeds > >(grown previous season). Milo is not hard to grow. It is grown in > >Kansas using row crop machinery and a combine ($375) to harvest. Or > >you could harvest small amounts by hand with a knife for chickens. It > >is very very itchy to harvest though using a combine w/o an air > >conditioned cab. $375 combines are mostly not air conditioned. > >Dennis > > Dennis: > > Ok, you got me REAL curious. You can buy a combine for $375? I can't buy a > rototiller for > that. Or you mean you can rent one? Or it comes with a driver? I don't > think my little garden could > hold any kind of combine. > > What is milo? Why would you feed it to chickens? > > I eat the sorghum, the chickens can have something yecchy, like wheat :-) > > > Heidi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 At 05:43 AM 7/2/2002 +0000, you wrote: >--- >Milo and grain sorghum are the same grains, in Kansas and elsewhere, >too I think. But that's why I was asking about them earlier cause I >hadn't heard of baking with milo. We have customers which send grain >sorghum (cracked and enriched) to developing nations, however I didn't >think they'd be baking with it. In a lot of countries, wheat is a new thing (and I guess it doesn't grow well everywhere either). They sell sorghum flour in 25 lb bags in Indian grocery stores, I'm told. I like it a LOT better than whole wheat flour (which never tasted good to me, even if I could eat it). Sorghum and millet and tapioca are the staple flours around the world. > You can plant the milo seeds by >broadcasting on spring soil w/o even rototilling if you wanted. The >seed would come up similar to and compete with the native plants >unless you're too far north. Or you could plant wheat in fall to have >a winter covercrop and broadcast the milo in spring. I'm not quite >sure of the timing in the north and there might be a better covercrop. It sounds like a good one for the chicken garden. We are late planting there (we made a new garden because we need a new chicken area). I can't let the chickens loose because there is something in our yard they keep eating that makes them sick then they die. Sad. I was thinking about Fava beans as an overcrop (would it hurt the chickens to eat the leftovers in the spring?). They add nitrogen to the soil and they taste great, and you can broadcast them too. >And like I mentioned, you could harvest small amounts of milo by hand >somewhat easily. I don't feed milo to the layers cause it is a little >low in protein and therefore has to be supplemented to prevent hens >from molting. Is molting from low protein? Mine seem to do it in the fall (when the weather starts turning cold) which strikes me as bad timing, but I thought they were getting enough to eat. >I get along ok feeding straight whole wheat and table >scraps to them during summer months when they're free rangeing in the >pasture/ fields. Yes an old combine here can be $300- $400 here but >you wouldn't want one for a garden most likely. Can you identify >grain sorghum berries? they are about BB size(.177 caliber), round >and are orange/red in color. The main reason it's fed to chickens is >it's usually less expensive than other grains. Less expensive? Sheesh, maybe I should start buying it at the feed store. It's rather pricey the way I get it. I got a jar of it whole because I wanted to see what it looks like. I don't think it's sold for human consumption -- is there anything about " feed sorghum " that would make it unfit for eating by a human? What I bought isn't orange/red though, it's kind of off-white. Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 --- I'm not familiar with fava beans. Worse case is you'd have to crack or sprout them, I suppose. I'm not sure whether they'd harm the chickens though. I'm not an expert on molting of hens however when they're stressed to some point they stop laying. Ambient temperature, day length, and diet are factors I'm aware of that can cause molting. Some breeds handle the " stresses " better than others. And once they molt it can take quite a while getting them back into production. I forgot sorghum can be a chalky white too. Rather than buying from an unknown co-mingled source (a feed store) for human consumption, I'd recommend finding that " local farmer " at harvest time.Or import from the midwest from a known source, so to speak. Dennis In @y..., Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...> wrote: > At 05:43 AM 7/2/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >--- > >Milo and grain sorghum are the same grains, in Kansas and elsewhere, > >too I think. But that's why I was asking about them earlier cause I > >hadn't heard of baking with milo. We have customers which send grain > >sorghum (cracked and enriched) to developing nations, however I didn't > >think they'd be baking with it. > > In a lot of countries, wheat is a new thing (and I guess it doesn't grow well > everywhere either). They sell sorghum flour in 25 lb bags in Indian > grocery stores, I'm told. I like it a LOT better than whole wheat > flour (which never tasted good to me, even if I could eat it). Sorghum and > millet and tapioca are the staple flours around the world. > > > > <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Clipped by Dennis>>>>><><<<<<><><>>>>>>>>>> > > Heidi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Hi, I'm fairly new to this group and have really enjoyed reading all the posts. I have been trying to convert to the Nourishing Traditions/Whole Foods way of life -- but am amazed at the amount of re-learning I am having to do. I first heard about Sally Fallon through my farmer husband who attended an ACRES workshop in Minneapolis a number of years ago where she was a seminar speaker. He was really blown away by her talk. Then as I began searching for answers to health problems while constantly being told by doctors that NUTRTION DOESN'T MATTER -- her name and WAP came up again and I remembered how impressed my husband was by Sally. So I looked up the WAP site and have been hooked ever since. I live in an interesting spot to try to convert to this diet -- in the midst of large agriculture farming and feedlots, but enough pockets of old way of life left to find people who still do things traditionally or remember when it was done traditionally. Also, a fairly successful organic grain mill very close by started by local Mennonite farmers. So, I have access to a milk goat and organic grains running out my ears, but not much else so far. Nearest health food store is 50 miles away and sells no organic vegetables--more into tofu and vitamins. I'm trying to grow a big garden this summer but we are in the midst of a terrible drought and it is hard. Also, a huge lack of understanding since most people (99%) here go by the party line of local extension (state agriculture university) which promotes pasturizing everything, irradiation of meat, the food pyramid, etc. And extension agents are not bad people -- truly concerned for safety and welfare of citizens they serve -- but not about to preach anything that is not status quo and in fact would lecture me BIG TIME for drinking raw milk much less offering it to my child. If native nutrition group is really serious about changing the way this country runs its agriculture -- convincing the extension people would be a necessary first step. They are the ones that do the teaching and are listened to with respect around here. Concerning Dennis and Heidi's discussion of grain sorghum/milo -- fascinating to me since it is one of the major crops my farm farmily grows. We are growing a food-grade grain sorghum for the first time this year -- a yellow/white variety. I'll be interested to see how it turns out and I will definitely want to try baking with it. As Dennis said not many people here consider milo a food for humans -- mostly fed to livestock. And, I'll agree, boy, is it itchy to harvest. Well, I've run on enough for an introductory post and will keep listening and try to jump in to give a perspective of what's going on in industrial agriculture land. I've got lots to learn and unlearn but have been very encouraged by what changes I've made so far. Lori in windy western Kansas trying to garden and farm and milk her goat daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 On Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:55:13 -0000 " biophile410 " <biophile410@...> writes: Yes, I overstated the case; my BF and I had an argument which led to my post. He actually does respect my opinions, and with more and better cooking (as Heidi suggests) his habits will improve. The thing that gets me is the rest of the world. I dare not tell my family that he has a heart condition (even though he's had it since birth). My parents are scientists; my younger brother's in medical school. A conversation we had about coconut oil made me feel like I was doing something evil. My dad's on cholesterol lowering medication. My mother gets upset that I cook my own egg in butter. I suppose this is why I live on the left coast. ******When dealing with family members who are scientifically oriented, interested in the academic enterprise, and at least claim to be somewhat grounded in rational thinking, I just hand them a book and ask them to read it and tell me specifically with citations why this author is wrong. I don't do it in a challenging way. I act like I'm the dummy and I need their wise counsel to know how to evaluate the material. I'll go even further and tell them I respect their commitment to the scientific method, precise thinking and not giving in to emotional and/or anecdotal arguments. If they don't read the book then I say something like " well I appreciate what you have to say but until someone makes a thorough refutation of this author I'm going to continue with what I'm doing since he makes some powerful arguments. I thought you were open minded and into ferreting out the truth no matter where it lay which is why I asked your opinion. Perhaps I was wrong. " Watch their response. Often this is enough to propel them back into the book in question. Sometimes it just leads to more gibberish about how they already know, they don't need to read it, etc., etc. Which means they aren't really independent thinkers but rather people (despite their educational credentials) who take things without much proof. There is a word for that but for fear of offending anyone I won't use it. At this point I just mentally wash my hands of these folks and realize they are probably stuck, at least for the moment, in their rather shaky paradigm. But since since I was friendly and cordial throughout the whole exchange nothing is lost, no tension arises, and they tend to leave me alone. We even laugh at times when the differences are obvious (like at social gatherings) and I have to gently remind them sometimes to " mind their own plate. " If they do read it, again watch their response. If dogmatic and emotional, gently remind them of their commitment to the *scientific* method, not closed minded emotional arguments. You won't win them over but you will at least keep them in check. Then I will say something like " until you refute this with something other than emotionalism I think I will keep doing what I'm doing. I appreciate all your training and credentials but I know you can do better than this. " Again, it won't win them over but it will keep you from having to play defense all the time or feeling like you are the strange one. On the other hand, if they show interest, you may *over a period of time* eventually have a convert. *Gently* feed them more material, constantly playing the dummy, asking for their opinion, *until* one day they are interested in pursuing these matters on their own. It takes time and a lot of patience, and they may never get there (unless they get really sick - which often has a way of opening up minds in a hurry), but sometimes they do and it is quite gratifying. Bianca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 bianca3@... wrote: > Which means > they aren't really independent thinkers but rather people (despite their > educational credentials) who take things without much proof. There is a > word for that but for fear of offending anyone I won't use it. Sheeple? ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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