Re: Fw: herring in sour cream

[Guest guest]

Kris-

>My mistake. I didn't mean 'kippered' herring - that's the stuff in a can. I

>mean herring in a jar in wine or sour cream that you find in the

>refrigerated section of the grocery store.

Ah, you mean pickled herring in cream sauce. If you can find raw herring

to pickle (something I have yet to manage) then yes, pickling the herring

per the NT recipe and then putting it in cream sauce should work fine. I

don't think those herrings are pickled in cream sauce, just mixed in

post-pickling. I'd _love_ to find fresh herring, because pickled herring

and pickled herring in cream sauce are two of my favorite foods.

-

[Guest guest]

I hadn't thought to look in NT. I see the recipe below pickled herring, for

mustard herring (I think it was called) uses a soak in vinegar to turn the

raw herring white, which is what you get in pickled herring. I imagine you'd

have to live close to the right seacoast to get fresh herring.

Peace,

Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

< >

Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 11:18 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: herring in sour cream

> Kris-

>

> >My mistake. I didn't mean 'kippered' herring - that's the stuff in a can.

I

> >mean herring in a jar in wine or sour cream that you find in the

> >refrigerated section of the grocery store.

>

> Ah, you mean pickled herring in cream sauce. If you can find raw herring

> to pickle (something I have yet to manage) then yes, pickling the herring

> per the NT recipe and then putting it in cream sauce should work fine. I

> don't think those herrings are pickled in cream sauce, just mixed in

> post-pickling. I'd _love_ to find fresh herring, because pickled herring

> and pickled herring in cream sauce are two of my favorite foods.

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:18 PM 6/7/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Ah, you mean pickled herring in cream sauce. If you can find raw herring

>to pickle (something I have yet to manage) then yes, pickling the herring

>per the NT recipe and then putting it in cream sauce should work fine. I

>don't think those herrings are pickled in cream sauce, just mixed in

>post-pickling. I'd _love_ to find fresh herring, because pickled herring

>and pickled herring in cream sauce are two of my favorite foods.

>

>-

I never thought much about it, but herring here is mostly sold (often live) for

fish bait. It's pretty easy to get a bucket of it. Although I don't know if it's

really " herring " or if all little fish used for bait are generically called

herring. Anyway, you might try a local (or Internet) bait shop.

They sell smelt a lot for eating -- I've always wondered if you could make it

into an " anchovy " like ferment. (Aren't anchovies fermented?). Smelt and herring

and anchovies always looked a lot alike to me, maybe they pickle similarly also?

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

Kris-

>I imagine you'd

>have to live close to the right seacoast to get fresh herring.

You'd think Manhattan would be close enough, but maybe there's just not

much demand for fresh herring. They always tell me " maybe next week "

except when they say " maybe next month " or " fresh herring? you mean pickled? " .

-

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>I never thought much about it, but herring here is mostly sold (often

>live) for fish bait. It's pretty easy to get a bucket of it. Although I

>don't know if it's really " herring " or if all little fish used for bait

>are generically called herring. Anyway, you might try a local (or

>Internet) bait shop.

I don't know, somehow I don't think the fish used for bait are really going

to be food grade. The idea just doesn't appeal, you know? <g> Anyway,

there might not be a single bait shop in all of Manhattan, whereas there

are loads of fish markets and even a few good ones.

-

[Guest guest]

At 03:01 PM 6/8/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>I don't know, somehow I don't think the fish used for bait are really going

>to be food grade. The idea just doesn't appeal, you know? <g> Anyway,

>there might not be a single bait shop in all of Manhattan, whereas there

>are loads of fish markets and even a few good ones.

Well, no, I wouldn't eat the frozen ones! They are distinctly unappatizing. But

if they are live and swimming around in a tank, what's the difference? Many of

the sports fishing boats have " live bait " tanks. But I've never been to

Manhattan, I suppose the sports fishing isn't done much there? Seems like being

on the water would incline one to fish sometimes. But if the water is very

polluted I suppose you wouldn't want to eat the fish out of it.

Also, doesn't Manhattan have some non-Europeans living in it? <g> Specifically

Japanese non-Europeans -- Uwajimaya's here has fish like you can't believe, and

they have many species that you just don't find in the usual stores. And the

fish are often still swimming around, or very very fresh. We also have some

ethnic stores that specialize in Eastern-European foods, and they have a lot of

strange seafoods. A lot of those stores will also do special orders. I'd guess

that if you ask they'll order some.

Or get some frozen:

http://www.lakesuperiorfish.com/order_ffr_herring_fillets.html

Oh well. Sorry to be pestiferous. Whenever someone says " I can't get something "

I take it as a personal challenge ... I made some pickled salmon with dill and

it tastes about like pickled herring to me, so you can tell I don't know the

difference.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

>

> You'd think Manhattan would be close enough, but maybe there's just not

> much demand for fresh herring. They always tell me " maybe next week "

> except when they say " maybe next month " or " fresh herring? you mean

pickled? " .

>

> -

You might do better in a Scandinavian market in Brooklyn.

Peace,

Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio

[Guest guest]

Kris-

>You might do better in a Scandinavian market in Brooklyn.

Good point, except that I already travel all over the landscape getting

food as it is, so Brooklyn just seems like too much. Maybe I'll try

sometime, though, and who knows, I might love the pickled herring so much

that I'll do it regularly.

-

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>But if they are live and swimming around in a tank, what's the difference?

Well, what they've been fed, and how disease-free they are, I guess.

-

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>Herring are just netted from the ocean, so no one knows what they've been

>eating.

There aren't any farmed herring? I'd think standards for bait aren't very

high.

>The frozen fish are often frozen right on the boat, so they are a lot

>fresher than the so-called " fresh " fish.

And yet somehow the fish frozen on the boat often taste off too, at least

here where I live. I buy it pretty often because there's a vendor who

sells out of a truck much more cheaply than I can get fish in a store, but

still, even though he's selling direct from the fisherman and it's supposed

to be frozen right on the boat, it's not always very good.

-

[Guest guest]

At 01:32 AM 6/9/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

>>But if they are live and swimming around in a tank, what's the difference?

>

>Well, what they've been fed, and how disease-free they are, I guess.

>

>-

Hmmm. I wonder if anyone checks? In the Sound, a lot of the fish is known to

have high levels of toxins (from heavy metals etc. they dumped at the turn of

the century). People fish for all kinds of stuff there though. I don't know if

anyone sells it commercially or not. Copper River Salmon -- they advertise where

those come from -- but I've never seen much information about other seafood. It

opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, so to speak, like knowing where your beef

came from.

Herring are just netted from the ocean, so no one knows what they've been

eating. They are pretty low down on the food chain though, so they should be

" cleaner " than salmon. The thing I'd think about is how fresh they are -- most

of the fish in the fish department here are REAL old. I usually buy frozen or

the Costco specials. The frozen fish are often frozen right on the boat, so they

are a lot fresher than the so-called " fresh " fish.

Of course, I'm speaking as a person who has no problem going down to the beach

and digging up clams either -- clams CAN have toxins too and are generally more

problematic than fish. I've always thought wild seafood in general is a lot

cleaner than " raised " food in general. Fish are usually pretty healthy: they can

get parasites, which is a good reason to freeze or marinate them unless you know

what you are doing, and they can get things like mercury concentrations (which I

don't think are checked for in general) but generally a fish is a fish.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

At 03:32 AM 6/9/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

>>Herring are just netted from the ocean, so no one knows what they've been

>>eating.

>

>There aren't any farmed herring? I'd think standards for bait aren't very

>high.

I don't know about the standards -- sports fishermen can be VERY picky. They

farm a lot of things nowadays, but last I looked, there were tons of herring and

anchovies, so it's cheaper to just net some. Some sports fishermen even net

their own.

>>The frozen fish are often frozen right on the boat, so they are a lot

>>fresher than the so-called " fresh " fish.

>

>And yet somehow the fish frozen on the boat often taste off too, at least

>here where I live. I buy it pretty often because there's a vendor who

>sells out of a truck much more cheaply than I can get fish in a store, but

>still, even though he's selling direct from the fisherman and it's supposed

>to be frozen right on the boat, it's not always very good.

Finding a good fish vendor is difficult! I'm spoiled because we used to catch

our own, and store bought just isn't the same. When I want GOOD fish I go to the

Japanese store: the Japanese have a reputation for being picky about seafood

being FRESH, and the store reflects it. However, it is NOT cheap there. There

are also packed frozen fish destined for the Japanese market, and they are

excellent too. I've talked to people who go down to the docks and buy right off

the boat, which they say is cheaper, but it sounds like too much work. Costco

fish has always been very good though, and it is amazingly cheap.

You can often buy from " distributors " if you can buy in bulk. They don't usually

sell retail, but a lot of them will, esp. if you are nice and don't take too

much of their time and pay cash. So you can order, say, 30lbs of berries in a

big box (if you like berries, like me) for $30, which is really cheap. If you

offer to buy a whole case of something, most of them can special order it --

profit margins are really small in the food business, and losses are high, and

the difference between " retail " and " wholesale " is BIG. Having a business

license helps: it doesn't matter what the business license is FOR, mind you,

just that they don't want to get in trouble with the tax people.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...