Re: Repairing spinal problems

[Guest guest]

At 04:26 PM 7/12/02 +0000, you wrote:

>My husband has recently been diagnosed as having some

>arthritic changes of the vertebrae in his neck.  He's started a

>chiropractic regimen to address the underlying cause (chronic

>misalignment resulting from scoliosis and one leg being shorter

>than the other), but I'm on a quest for info to see if it's possible to

>reverse the damage that's been done.  He has some abnormal

>bone growth and has lost 10% of the range of motion of his neck

>- the vertebrae are out of alignment, and bone has started to

>grow around the overhanging edges.  The chiropractor was

>surprised he wasn't in worse shape than he is, considering how

>out of whack things are with the rest of his bones.  She thinks the

>degeneration can be halted by getting the rest of his body back in

>alignment, but I want to know if it's possible for his body to repair

>the damage.   

>

>She's going to be giving him nutritional suggestions, but in case

>we think they're horse puckey (i.e. politically correct, no saturated

>fat, etc.), I want to find as much as I can about helping this kind of

>situation with traditional nutrition, superfoods, and the like.  We

>don't know her very well yet, but I was slightly encouraged by the

>books on the shelf in her office (no NT or WAP, though), and I

>know her kids went through Waldorf schools so maybe she

>doesn't toe the party line about nutrition.  I don't know if the

>Wulzen anti-stiffness factor of raw milk helps this kind of

>problem, I was under the impression that was helpful

>specifically for cartilage lubrication (which is not his problem). 

>How can bone be encouraged to return to normal?  I had a bone

>spur on my heel as a teenager, which went away without

>surgery, but how that happened I don't know.  It just disappeared.

>

>She wants him to take glucosamine/chondroitin, any thoughts or

>experiences on that would be appreciated.  She says she's seen

>dramatic improvements with taking that in high doses for several

>months and then switching to a maintenance dose.

>

>Thanks.

>Aubin 

Hi Aubin,

My husband also has scoliosis and leg length inequality from getting hit on

his

motorcycle in '85. He has a chimney business. Don't know how he does it (dr.

says he's unable to work, social insecurity cut him off). All I can figure is

Edgar Cayce said keeping the muscles strong around a scoliosis spine helps.

Last year he developed carpal tunnel in on arm and tendonitis in the other

along with the back and leg usual. Desperate and without insurance I came

across neurostructual therapy on Dr. Mercola's site. Search NST at mercola.com

to find practitioners.Luckily there was one in the county and I gave 3

sessions

to him for his birthday. I could tell his spine straightened and his hips

lined

up better. His arms got better too. He won't take supplements. Milk is helping

it seems even though he hasn't commented. Glucosamine I'd stay away from. It

can produce full blown diabetes in hypoglycemics. The medical remedy for

scoliosis is spinal fusion which my husband says no way they're fusing my

central nervous system.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita,

Where did you read about the glucosamine and hypoglycemia connection?

Aubin,

At the moment I am getting informed about magnesium supplementation.

I read how well the muscles in your body function has a lot to do

with your magnesium level, as well, if not more that the calcium

level. The neck is a common area for pain to manifest itself when

Mag. is low. Do a little hunting around for magnesium inforamtion.

Better yet do a search on magnesium right here on .

Information on some of the best mag. web site are located in the more

current messages.

I always suggest checking digestion for any chronic illness. In my

personal experience and humble opinion digestion is the key to better

health.

Sheila

-- In @y..., Wanita Sears <wanitawa@b...> wrote:

> At 04:26 PM 7/12/02 +0000, you wrote:

> >My husband has recently been diagnosed as having some

> >arthritic changes of the vertebrae in his neck.  He's started a

> >chiropractic regimen to address the underlying cause (chronic

> >misalignment resulting from scoliosis and one leg being shorter

> >than the other), but I'm on a quest for info to see if it's

possible to

> >reverse the damage that's been done.  He has some abnormal

> >bone growth and has lost 10% of the range of motion of his neck

> >- the vertebrae are out of alignment, and bone has started to

> >grow around the overhanging edges.  The chiropractor was

> >surprised he wasn't in worse shape than he is, considering how

> >out of whack things are with the rest of his bones.  She thinks

the

> >degeneration can be halted by getting the rest of his body back in

> >alignment, but I want to know if it's possible for his body to

repair

> >the damage.   

> >

> >She's going to be giving him nutritional suggestions, but in case

> >we think they're horse puckey (i.e. politically correct, no

saturated

> >fat, etc.), I want to find as much as I can about helping this

kind of

> >situation with traditional nutrition, superfoods, and the like. 

We

> >don't know her very well yet, but I was slightly encouraged by the

> >books on the shelf in her office (no NT or WAP, though), and I

> >know her kids went through Waldorf schools so maybe she

> >doesn't toe the party line about nutrition.  I don't know if the

> >Wulzen anti-stiffness factor of raw milk helps this kind of

> >problem, I was under the impression that was helpful

> >specifically for cartilage lubrication (which is not his

problem). 

> >How can bone be encouraged to return to normal?  I had a bone

> >spur on my heel as a teenager, which went away without

> >surgery, but how that happened I don't know.  It just disappeared.

> >

> >She wants him to take glucosamine/chondroitin, any thoughts or

> >experiences on that would be appreciated.  She says she's seen

> >dramatic improvements with taking that in high doses for several

> >months and then switching to a maintenance dose.

> >

> >Thanks.

> >Aubin 

>

> Hi Aubin,

> My husband also has scoliosis and leg length inequality from

getting hit on

> his

> motorcycle in '85. He has a chimney business. Don't know how he

does it (dr.

> says he's unable to work, social insecurity cut him off). All I can

figure is

> Edgar Cayce said keeping the muscles strong around a scoliosis

spine helps.

> Last year he developed carpal tunnel in on arm and tendonitis in

the other

> along with the back and leg usual. Desperate and without insurance

I came

> across neurostructual therapy on Dr. Mercola's site. Search NST at

mercola.com

> to find practitioners.Luckily there was one in the county and I

gave 3

> sessions

> to him for his birthday. I could tell his spine straightened and

his hips

> lined

> up better. His arms got better too. He won't take supplements. Milk

is helping

> it seems even though he hasn't commented. Glucosamine I'd stay away

from. It

> can produce full blown diabetes in hypoglycemics. The medical

remedy for

> scoliosis is spinal fusion which my husband says no way they're

fusing my

> central nervous system.

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

aubinparrish wrote:

> She thinks the

> degeneration can be halted by getting the rest of his body back in

> alignment, but I want to know if it's possible for his body to repair

> the damage.

I've talked to two chiropractors who practive what is called Upper cervical

specific therapy. From talking to them, I would say that the body is indeed

able to repair that kind of damage. In fact, I go to one those two chiros,

and he told me he had a patient with some bone growth (I think he said if I

haven't dreamt that up), and with time the growth went away. Where do you

live? This doctor is in Roseville, CA

> How can bone be encouraged to return to normal? I had a bone

> spur on my heel as a teenager, which went away without

> surgery, but how that happened I don't know. It just disappeared.

I've read and heard of cases when magnesium supplementation eliminated bone

spurs.

> She wants him to take glucosamine/chondroitin, any thoughts or

> experiences on that would be appreciated. She says she's seen

> dramatic improvements with taking that in high doses for several

> months and then switching to a maintenance dose.

That's true. They stimulate cartilage growth, and in arthritis cartilage is

damaged, which leads to pain. Doses need to be quite high, and it does take

several months.

Roman

[Guest guest]

> I've talked to two chiropractors who practive what is called

Upper cervical

> specific therapy. From talking to them, I would say that the body

is indeed

> able to repair that kind of damage. In fact, I go to one those two

chiros,

> and he told me he had a patient with some bone growth (I think

he said if I

> haven't dreamt that up), and with time the growth went away.

Where do you

> live? This doctor is in Roseville, CA

We're near Roseville! Actually, we live in the Sierra foothills, and

the chiro he's seeing right now is in Folsom. Please let me

know the name of the one in Roseville, maybe we can get a

consultation going between the two docs. So far, we like this

woman, it will be interesting to see what suggestions she has

after coming up with a personalized plan.

> I've read and heard of cases when magnesium

supplementation eliminated bone

> spurs.

Interesting. She said at the first appt. that she would like him to

start taking a cal/mag supplement, and was going to do more

research for him over this weekend on specific nutrition. We do

have a nutrient-dense diet, but after having less than ideal

nutrition for most of his life (as in, SAD), I'm sure supplements

will be needed to address deficiencies. How does raw cow's

milk fit into the magnesium picture?

> That's true. They stimulate cartilage growth, and in arthritis

cartilage is

> damaged, which leads to pain. Doses need to be quite high,

and it does take

> several months.

She wanted him on high doses for at least 4 months and then

re-evaluate. I will definitely look into Wanita's warning about it

impacting the pancreas and insulin levels. He's never had any

signs of having blood sugar or insulin problems, but I still want

to know more. Will ask the chiro what she knows about that. If I

sound a little bit in the dark, it's because so far there have only

been 3 sessions with her, the first one to evaluate and do x-rays,

2nd one she gave him her interpretation of the x-rays, 3rd one

was just adjustment, and next week we will schedule a longer

one to talk more in depth. Thanks, Roman.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> Edgar Cayce said keeping the muscles strong around a

scoliosis spine helps.

He will be starting exercises specifically to strengthen the

muscles involved, but she wants him to exercise 2 hours a day,

and he already works at least 10 hours a day, so that's going to

be a challenge.

> across neurostructual therapy on Dr. Mercola's site. Search

NST at mercola.com

> to find practitioners.

I will look into that.

> Glucosamine I'd stay away from. It

> can produce full blown diabetes in hypoglycemics.

Thanks for the heads up, I will see what more I can find about

that. He does not seem to be prone to any problems like that,

not hypoglycemic, but still something to be aware of, I appreciate

it the warning.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

>The neck is a common area for pain to manifest itself when

> Mag. is low. Do a little hunting around for magnesium

inforamtion.

> Better yet do a search on magnesium right here on

.

Thanks. I haven't been able to keep up with all the conversations

on this list recently, but I'll go back and look at those posts.

> I always suggest checking digestion for any chronic illness. In

my

> personal experience and humble opinion digestion is the key

to better

> health.

I agree, digestion is key. He doesn't have symptoms of

compromised digestion, but I suppose there aren't always

dramatic symptoms until deficiencies start to show up in other

parts of the body. How would you suggest " checking " digestion?

He does have a very stressful job and doesn't get enough

exercise, and we're working on making some changes in those

areas, but his scoliosis and difference in leg length seem to be

the underlying mechanical factors.

Thanks again.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> As far as food goes alfalfa I'd say sprouts for the

> most concentrated nutrition helps. Husband will eat. :-)

Sally specifically warns against alfalfa sprouts in NT, saying

" Tests have shown that alfalfa sprouts inhibit the immune

system and can contribute to inflammatory arthritis and lupus.

Alfalfa seeds contain an amino acid called canavanine that can

be toxic to man and animals when taken in quantity. " My

husband detests the things, anyway.

>Yucca root and

> bromelian in pineapples are the best anti inflammatories.

Yucca is a precursor

> to synthetic cortisone and flushes uric acid buildup out.

Yes, I've seen references to yucca in conjuntion with other

joint/bone supplements elsewhere. Didn't know about the

pineapple. Thanks.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Since glucosamine and chondrotin have been proven to work, it seems

reasonable to give them a try, if a monitoring of insulin resistance

is adhered too.

Here is what Dr. Mercola says about it:

(A recent past report in JAMA confirms that glucosamine does work for

osteoarthritis. An editorial in the Lancet (Volume 354, Number 9176

July, 31 1999) suggested last year that glucosamine might help raise

insulin resistance. This report confirms the Lancet report so it

would seem prudent to monitor blood sugar levels in anyone taking

glucosamine regularly. A normal fasting blood sugar is an incredibly

powerful test. The normal should be 87. Any values over 100 are

suspicious of pre-diabetes. Any value over 120 is diabetes in my book

until proven otherwise. "

I can not comment on Dr. Mercols's fasting blood sugar values. I

don't know much about blood sugar.

All my best,

Sheila

I have personally had great success with glucosamine and chondrotin

and also with bromalian.

It is great to know about the yucca root. Thanks Wanita.

Sheila

-- In @y..., Wanita Sears <wanitawa@b...> wrote:

> At 07:41 PM 7/12/02 +0000, Sheila wrote:

> >Wanita,

> >Where did you read about the glucosamine and hypoglycemia

connection?

>

> I was on a list few years back and a glucosamine inquiry came up.

Three people

> posted that they had had 3 different pancreatic reactions to taking

> glucosamine. One was pancreatitis making her insulin dependent for

life,

> another knew she was hypoglycemic and went to diabetes, another

diabetic with

> glucosamine having to be stopped to regulate her insulin.

Glucosamine is

> glucose and protein.

>

> >

> >Aubin,

> >At the moment I am getting informed about magnesium

supplementation.

> >I read how well the muscles in your body function has a lot to do

> >with your magnesium level, as well, if not more that the calcium

> >level. The neck is a common area for pain to manifest itself when

> >Mag. is low. Do a little hunting around for magnesium inforamtion.

> >Better yet do a search on magnesium right here on native-

nutrition.

> >Information on some of the best mag. web site are located in the

more

> >current messages.

> > I always suggest checking digestion for any chronic illness. In

my

> >personal experience and humble opinion digestion is the key to

better

> >health.

> >Sheila

>

> I agree on the magnesium helping the calcium to not settle to

produce

> arthritis. My husband's scoliosis was showing arthritis in two of

his three

> spinal curves 8 years ago. As far as food goes alfalfa I'd say

sprouts for the

> most concentrated nutrition helps. Husband will eat. :-) Yucca root

and

> bromelian in pineapples are the best anti inflammatories. Yucca is

a precursor

> to synthetic cortisone and flushes uric acid buildup out.

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

Aubin,

Don't let the Chiroprator neglect the muscles. They aren't schooled

on muscles - just bones, so unless they have a massage therapist on

staff, they don't provide it or usually even suggest it. Without

massage, you really aren't treating the entire problem. If the

muscles are contracting/spasming (they usually are), he really will

need some massage along with the Chiro treatments. Bone and muscle

go hand-in-hand, so if the bones are out of alignment, the muscles

are being pulled, too. It's also great for stress.

I don't know anyone that doesn't come away from the Chiro without the

diagnosis of one leg being longer than the other. I'm not saying

this isn't true in these cases, it's just not an uncommon thing.

It's due to the hips being rotated slightly. Very rarely is it due

to an anatomical abnormality.

Good luck!

<My husband has recently been diagnosed as having some arthritic

changes of the vertebrae in his neck. He's started a chiropractic

regimen to address the underlying cause (chronic misalignment

resulting from scoliosis and one leg being shorter than the other),

but I'm on a quest for info to see if it's possible to reverse the

damage that's been done. He has some abnormal bone growth and has

lost 10% of the range of motion of his neck - the vertebrae are out

of alignment, and bone has started to grow around the overhanging

edges. The chiropractor was surprised he wasn't in worse shape than

he is, considering how out of whack things are with the rest of his

bones. She thinks the degeneration can be halted by getting the rest

of his body back in alignment, but I want to know if it's possible

for his body to repair the damage.

Aubin>

[Guest guest]

> Aubin,

>

> Don't let the Chiroprator neglect the muscles. They aren't

schooled

> on muscles - just bones, so unless they have a massage

therapist on

> staff, they don't provide it or usually even suggest it.

She does have a massage therapist on staff, and my husband is

scheduled for massages there as well. I don't know what

technique they use. My step-father is also a massage therapist,

and he works on us when we see him, but he lives a couple

hours away so it's not very often.

> I don't know anyone that doesn't come away from the Chiro

without the

> diagnosis of one leg being longer than the other.

Yeah, I'm sure most people are not symetrical, but his legs are

different by a whole inch. He's known about that and the

scoliosis since he was a child, but never had pain significant

enough to cause him to seek professional help until recently (he

puts off those kind of things and just ignores discomfort).

Thank you.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

> Since glucosamine and chondrotin have been proven to work,

it seems

> reasonable to give them a try, if a monitoring of insulin

resistance

> is adhered too.

I agree, and we will talk with the chiro about monitoring his

blood.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

>

> From what I've read, milk is a poor source of magnesium.

NT lists dairy, nuts, vegies, fish & other seafood and meat as

sources, and especially stocks as a source of usable mag, that

deficiences are common due to soil depletion, and to avoid high

carb levels and oxalic and phytic acids. But I also read

elsewhere that protein inhibits absorption of mag - don't know if

that's related to the tired old line regarding protein leaching

calcium, based on studies done with isolated protein powders.

That was in Prescription for Nutritional Healing, which I have

mixed feelings about (I see Dr. Byrnes uses it as a study guide

in his correspondence nutrition courses, but I've found things in

there that are not really in line with WAPF-type philosophy). I find

it frustrating to try to track down what is actually the truth about all

this stuff, when there's so much conflicting info out there.

> As far as a food supplement is concerned, consider products

from NutraStar

> (www.nutrastar.com). They are based on stabilized rice bran.

I heard that woman on Cary Nosler's radio show recently, what

she said seemed sound to me. I've used stabilized rice bran for

my horses in the past. I'm pursuing that avenue as well. Thank

you.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> For my own case, switching to raw

> foods stopped my problems with indigestion - all those

symptoms disappeared

> instantly.

Thanks Mark. We have actually talked this week about

increasing his raw and fermented intake to try maximizing his

digestion - even supplements won't do him any good if his guts

aren't up to par.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> I don't claim to know all about it, but I'd agree with that. From

what I've

> heard, read, and experienced, NST or Bowen therapy is better

at releasing

> muscle tension than massage. There's a very good Bowen

therapist in Auburn,

> which is close to where you live, right, Aubin?

Yes, that is nearby, and I'll look into those two things as well.

At this point my husband is looking at all these things he

" should " be doing to fix this, and wondering where the 20 more

hours a week it's going to require is coming from. Stress

management is something we definitely need to address, as

well. He's a business owner, and at this stage it's demanding

many more hours than most people work, and to just drop hours

from his work schedule at this point would mean throwing away

years of effort, but it doesn't do any of us any good if he works

himself into a wheelchair. It's my job to help him remember that,

not always easy with a hyperactive work ethic.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

> Our back and stomach muscles don't get nearly the strength

training they need!

True, and his job is physically demanding but does not do

anything to strengthen those muscles.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

Hi Aubin,

I have had exellent results dissolving stress by using yoga breathing

exercises and mediation for 20 minutes two times a day. The breathing

exercises are very powerful, yet extremely easy to do and take very

little time. I know your husband is pressed for time.

Some hospitals and clinics offer classes in meditation and other

stress reduction methods. Insurance will often cover these classes.

I'm sure you know, physical pain, as well as a tight business

schedule, will take their toll on the emotional health of body and

spirit. These metnods of relieving stress will stand your husband in

good stead during his healing. Maybe you could learn them together.

Just my suggestion.

Sheila

> >>

> >> > Aubin,

> >> >

> >> > Don't let the Chiroprator neglect the muscles.

> >> They aren't schooled

> >> > on muscles - just bones, so unless they have a

> >> massage therapist on

> >> > staff, they don't provide it or usually even

> >> suggest it.  Without

> >> > massage, you really aren't treating the entire

> >> problem.  If the

> >> > muscles are contracting/spasming (they usually

> >> are), he really will

> >> > need some massage along with the Chiro treatments.

> >>  Bone and muscle

> >> > go hand-in-hand, so if the bones are out of

> >> alignment, the muscles

> >> > are being pulled, too.  It's also great for

> >> stress.

> >> >

> >> > I don't know anyone that doesn't come away from

> >> the Chiro without the

> >> > diagnosis of one leg being longer than the other.

> >> I'm not saying

> >> > this isn't true in these cases, it's just not an

> >> uncommon thing.

> >> > It's due to the hips being rotated slightly.  Very

> >> rarely is it due

> >> > to an anatomical abnormality.

> >> >

> >> > Good luck!

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >__________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

> These metnods of relieving stress will stand your husband in

> good stead during his healing. Maybe you could learn them

together.

> Just my suggestion.

Thanks, Sheila, good suggestion. He used to do yoga, and also

knows some mental relaxation techniques that worked for him,

but has backslid on those over the past couple of years with the

other demands on his time. I'm working on getting him to take at

least 10 minutes a day to try to get back into some of that, it can

only help. If I could get him to do it while in the sunlight, even

better, since he's practically a cave-dweller with working such

long hours.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

Hi,

If he gets little or no sunshine, he needs vitamin D from high

quality cod liver oil, for everything that ails him. It can be taken

in a capsule if he doesn't like the taste of the oil. Radiant Life

has a very fine CLO. Sally Fallon uses it and I figure that speaks

volumes. You may get their catalog by calling (413)662-9535 of log on

at www.radiantlife.com. Maybe you already have this information, but

thought it worth mentioning just in case you didn't.

Sheila

> > These metnods of relieving stress will stand your husband in

> > good stead during his healing. Maybe you could learn them

> together.

> > Just my suggestion.

>

> Thanks, Sheila, good suggestion. He used to do yoga, and also

> knows some mental relaxation techniques that worked for him,

> but has backslid on those over the past couple of years with the

> other demands on his time. I'm working on getting him to take at

> least 10 minutes a day to try to get back into some of that, it can

> only help. If I could get him to do it while in the sunlight, even

> better, since he's practically a cave-dweller with working such

> long hours.

>

> Aubin

[Guest guest]

> Sheila,

>

> I just contacted Radiant Life and they said they don't sell CLO.

The Radiant Life company that carries CLO (and a bunch of

other great stuff) has a website at http://www.4radiantlife.com/ , if

you leave off the " 4 " you get a different company.

> at www.radiantlife.com. Maybe you already have this

information, but

> thought it worth mentioning just in case you didn't.

> Sheila

Another good suggestion. I take CLO (in pills, the taste makes

me gag), and give it to my son, but getting my husband to take

pills means I have to remember it for him. I guess I'm going to

have to start putting them out for him.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

Hi Aubin,

I am sorry I missed the " 4 " in the www.4radiantlife.com web site. My

mistake!

I hope you will give them a call. The catalog is interesting and the

products are excellent.

Sheila

> > Sheila,

> >

> > I just contacted Radiant Life and they said they don't sell CLO.

>

> The Radiant Life company that carries CLO (and a bunch of

> other great stuff) has a website at http://www.4radiantlife.com/ ,

if

> you leave off the " 4 " you get a different company.

>

>

> > at www.radiantlife.com. Maybe you already have this

> information, but

> > thought it worth mentioning just in case you didn't.

> > Sheila

>

> Another good suggestion. I take CLO (in pills, the taste makes

> me gag), and give it to my son, but getting my husband to take

> pills means I have to remember it for him. I guess I'm going to

> have to start putting them out for him.

>

> Aubin