RE: NT and depression

[Guest guest]

At 02:45 PM 8/4/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

> >I know if my compost container has

> >acid/lacto in it (kefir) it does not stink.

>

>Just a little OT note: something's wrong in your compost container if it

>stinks without kefir. Are you perhaps dumping meat or fat into it?

>

>-

Well, I use the word " compost " loosely. It is everyone's leftovers -- I

don't have a garbage

disposal. True vegie compost I toss separate -- it is dryer and doesn't

ferment, also

does not attract rats. The stuff in the bucket is destined for the worm

bin, and they

eat anything! Yep, it has fat and meat. After the worms get through with

it, then

it is really compost.

I'm not sure if the lacto-ferment will be good for worms though. That will

be interesting.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

> ---Isn't it necessary to gradually cut down on the sweeteners and

> caffein?

I'd say with caffeine it's good to taper off gradually, since stopping cold

turkey can definitely give headaches. And you don't need to worry about

substituting some other food to take the place of caffeine.

With sugar I think it is important to focus first on getting the good foods,

which satisfy your appetite and your body, so you don't feel deprived.

>A few months ago I tried to stop lots of the sugars (pop and

> white flour) and started getting fuzzy brain feeling, or so it seems

> like the worst description of the feeling. So I gave up(started

> eating white flour and drinking pop again) and that fuzzy feeling has

> gone away. I'm not sure if the processed CHO's are the problem but I

> know I consume lots of them relative to protein and fat . They provide

> quick energy (what is it 9kcal/gram)on hot days when it's very

> convenient to grab a pop instead of cooking.

If you think in these terms, pop will win every time. If you understand how

the pop is causing your need for 'quick energy' it may help to make

'cooking' more appealing.

>Any ideas for gradual

> elimination of sugars? How about watering the sodas down? And if you

> completely quit sugars/ processed CHO's OR reduce processed CHO's what

> do you replace them with for " brain food " ?

Whole foods are perfectly able to provide brain food, but it does take some

thought and planning to get a better balance of CHO, protein and fat. For

example, if you want orange juice in the morning, make it a small 4 oz

glass, and have it with 1 slice of good whole grain bread with butter and

cheese and an egg gently fried in butter.

If we have sandwiches for lunch I make them open face with one slice of good

buttered bread, piled with something like tuna salad made with real mayo,

along with a veggie fo some sort. And then round out the meal with a

smoothie made with whole milk kefir with a bit of banana, coconut milk,

frozen strawberries sweetened with stevia. It definitely makes life easier

of you like fermented veggies.

When you eat like this the refined stuff has less appeal.

Kris

>Are we back to

> MCT,avocadoes, coconut, liver, whole milk,butter,squash,cucumbers,

> raw meat, and eggs? I will add I wasn't eating all these to replace

> pop and white flour a few months ago. The brain needs energy? to

> function!! I quickly tired of that lousy feeling and I needed energy

> cause I had/have lots of work to do. I've read this sight for 3 or

> more months since last " trying " the reduced processed CHO's so I'll

> do it again when the weather cools. I could be more informed now than

> then. Thanks. Dennis

>

[Guest guest]

---Interesting. Last Friday evening at 9:45 I felt " kind of " like I

described below. I perked some weak coffee with decaff and

caffeinated and drank 3 swallows. 30 minutes later I felt great! I

usually stay up 'til 1:30 AM and wake up around 6:30 or 7:00 AM

feeling only " somewhat " rested. So I probably need more sleep as well.

The caffein is possibly part of the problem. Although it may have

just dilated vessels increasing flow/nutrients everywhere. I only

mention this because it's somewhat on topic and because Tim earlier

mentioned something about getting into " Lean mean, fighting machine "

shape for the busy summer season using the NT diet. That sounded good

to me. At that time the discussion was about consumption of raw

meats I think.. I added sun tea to the diet this weekend. I'm not

quite sure how to approach the potential gluten problem. Guess I'll

see what happens changing beverages and start keeping a food eaten

log, as much as I hate to. And spend more quality time in the kitchen

preparing proteins and saturated animal fats(and avocados and coconut

oil) and unprocessed CHO's. Thank you for the input. Dennis

In @y..., ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

> Hmm, this is a really awful suggestion, but if it comes down to it,

try

> coffee? Wouldn't want to get in that _habit_, BUT, you need less

sugar per

> brain-energy dose. Coffee lasts a lot longer than sugar in those

terms, and

> so perhaps it is better to have one or two coffees than 5 or 6

sodas.

>

> chris

>

> In a message dated 8/2/02 7:24:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dkemnitz2000@y... writes:

>

> > ---Isn't it necessary to gradually cut down on the sweeteners and

> > caffein? A few months ago I tried to stop lots of the sugars

(pop and

> > white flour) and started getting fuzzy brain feeling, or so it

seems

> > like the worst description of the feeling. So I gave up(started

> > eating white flour and drinking pop again) and that fuzzy

feeling has

> > gone away. I'm not sure if the processed CHO's are the problem

but I

> > know I consume lots of them relative to protein and fat . They

provide

> > quick energy (what is it 9kcal/gram)on hot days when it's very

> > convenient to grab a pop instead of cooking. Any ideas for

gradual

> > elimination of sugars? How about watering the sodas down? And if

you

> > completely quit sugars/ processed CHO's OR reduce processed CHO's

what

> > do you replace them with for " brain food " ? Are we back to

> > MCT,avocadoes, coconut, liver, whole

milk,butter,squash,cucumbers,

> > raw meat, and eggs? I will add I wasn't eating all these to

replace

> > pop and white flour a few months ago. The brain needs energy? to

> > function!! I quickly tired of that lousy feeling and I needed

energy

> > cause I had/have lots of work to do. I've read this sight for 3

or

> > more months since last " trying " the reduced processed CHO's so

I'll

> > do it again when the weather cools. I could be more informed now

than

> > then. Thanks. Dennis

> >

>

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It

is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

enemies of the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis,

Remember that thread with Tim and my input. Must admit I'm not in the fight

all

the time but if it wasn't for the increased raw, protein and fat including the

coconut milk and avocado I should be depressed worse than ever before with

whats gone on in my life over the last 6 months but it threatens and goes as

quickly. Maybe an attitude adjustment with the diet. The coconut milk has

helped me give up sugar and grains 95% of the time. Know I harp on this but

its

been what showed most improvement. :-) I haven't quit my coffee but drink

organic only through unbleached filters. Usually black but delicious with

coconut milk. Herb tea at night. This summer in the waves of nearly 100 degree

heat my feet did not swell for the first time in years or did Iget brain

fog in

the last few hours of work. I did try quark at Tim's suggestion and it sat in

me like lead so cheese is still out. Have added kefir recently besides yogurt

and lots of butter on all carbs with better results in digestion. Don't

have it

yet as brain fog still from time to time.

Wanita

At 10:38 PM 8/5/02 +0000, you wrote:

>---Interesting.  Last Friday  evening at 9:45 I felt " kind of " like  I

>described below. I perked some weak coffee with decaff and

>caffeinated and drank 3 swallows.  30 minutes later I felt great! I

>usually stay up 'til 1:30 AM and wake up around 6:30 or 7:00 AM

>feeling only " somewhat " rested. So I probably need more sleep as well.

>The caffein is possibly part of the problem.  Although it may have

>just dilated vessels increasing flow/nutrients everywhere. I only

>mention this because it's somewhat on topic and because Tim earlier

>mentioned something about getting into  " Lean mean, fighting machine "

>shape for the busy summer season using the NT diet. That sounded good

>to me. At that time the discussion was about consumption of raw  

>meats I think..    I added sun tea  to the diet this weekend. I'm not

>quite sure how to approach the potential gluten problem.  Guess I'll

>see what happens changing beverages and start keeping a food eaten

>log, as much as I hate to.  And spend more quality time in the kitchen

>preparing proteins and saturated animal fats(and avocados and coconut

>oil)  and unprocessed CHO's. Thank you for the input.  Dennis

>

>

>

>

>In @y..., ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

>> Hmm, this is a really awful suggestion, but if it comes down to it,

>try

>> coffee?  Wouldn't want to get in that _habit_, BUT, you need less

>sugar per

>> brain-energy dose.  Coffee lasts a lot longer than sugar in those

>terms, and

>> so perhaps it is better to have one or two coffees than 5 or 6

>sodas.

>>

>> chris

>>

>> In a message dated 8/2/02 7:24:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>> dkemnitz2000@y... writes:

>>

>> > ---Isn't it necessary to gradually cut down on the sweeteners and

>> >  caffein?  A few months ago I tried to stop lots of the sugars

>(pop and

>> >  white flour) and started getting fuzzy brain feeling, or so it

>seems

>> >  like the worst description of the feeling.  So I gave up(started

>> >  eating white flour and drinking pop again)  and that fuzzy

>feeling has

>> >  gone away.  I'm not sure if  the processed CHO's are the problem

>but I

>> >  know I consume lots of them relative to protein and fat . They

>provide

>> >  quick energy (what is it 9kcal/gram)on hot days when it's very

>> >  convenient to grab a pop instead of cooking.  Any ideas for

>gradual

>> >  elimination of sugars? How about watering the sodas down?  And if

>you

>> >  completely quit sugars/ processed CHO's OR reduce processed CHO's

>what

>> >  do you replace them with for " brain food " ?  Are we back to

>> >  MCT,avocadoes,  coconut, liver, whole

>milk,butter,squash,cucumbers,

>> >  raw meat,  and eggs? I will add I wasn't eating all these to

>replace

>> >  pop and white flour a few months ago. The brain needs energy? to

>> >  function!! I quickly tired of that lousy feeling and I needed

>energy

>> >  cause I had/have lots of work to do. I've read this sight for 3

>or

>> >  more months since last " trying " the reduced processed CHO's so 

>I'll

>> >  do it again when the weather cools.  I could be more informed now

>than

>> >  then. Thanks. Dennis

>> > 

>>

>>

>> ____

>>

>> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion?  It

>is a

>> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

>birds, and

>> animals, for serpents and for demons.  The thought of them and the

>sight of

>> them make the tears of the saint flow.  And this immense and intense

>> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

>unable to

>> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

>creature. 

>> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

>enemies of the

>> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>>

>> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 01:55 AM 8/4/02 -0400, you wrote:

>-

>

>>I just finished reading about food combining.  It says

>>that we shouldn't be eating fruits with proteins and

>>fats.  That they should be eaten alone.  The reason is

>>that when combined with protein and fat, the fruit

>>ferments in the stomach, causing distress (gas, etc.)

That would negate historical use of pemmican, all current trail mixes, real

mincemeat, apples with nut butter or grapes and cheese. I have seen that

vegetables and fruit together are not good. Affects me with Asian sweet and

sours, chicken, cranberry sauce or pork chops, applesauce with potato and a

vegetable. Even dessert with a meal.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Dear Dennis,

I could share my experience with cutting out white sugar in my diet. Don't know

if this will help or not.

I received some nutrition recommendations from a doctor in Sacramento that seem

to be compatible with NT suggestions.

The diet is specifically for strengthening the liver. Eat your heaviest meals

early in the day. Protiens and dairy along with vegtables and grains before

3pm. Eat limited amounts of sweet fruits and natural sweeteners like Rapadura

and honey after 3pm. Grains and vegtables may be eaten at either time of the

day.

I have been eating along these guidelines for 8 weeks. My hypoglycemia symptoms

seem to have gone away. My moods are much more even. Depression does not seem

to be as severe as it was when I ate all the refined foods. (I am hoping for

continued success at the 6 month and 1 year mark.)

I resist the urge for sweets early in the day (even with all the treats in my

office) and if I still need something sweet I wait until 3, eat my grains and

veggies and reward myself with a biscuit from the NT cookbook with homemade

butter and some honey (store bought organic butter is fine), or I will eat a

piece of fruit. I also popped some popcorn, melted butter and added a

tablespoon of honey to the butter and then spread it on the popcorn as a treat

after my dinner meal. (I do eat some dairy like cream or butter in small amounts

with sweets after 3 so the sugar doesn't go into the bloodstream as fast).

For drinks, I make up my own tea's specifically to strengthen my liver function.

ie. dandelion root, licorice (which has a sweet taste), & yarrow. I also use

hibiscus and rosehips good for better kidney function. I mix and match so I

don't use just one tea combination every day. I also made the beet Kvass from

NT and I love having it in the morning and evening.

I'm very new to this listserve and only recently gotten into using the NT

cookbook. By limiting my sweets to a certain part of the day, I was able to cut

out white sugar completely from my diet, immediately, with no side effects. I

have never been into drinking soft drinks so that probably makes the issue a

little more difficult for you. See the beverage section in NT. I know there

are some great alternatives. I love all the food recommendations so it doesn't

feel like deprivation or punishment to me to eliminate white sugar & flour. I

find I don't crave sweets anymore. Best of luck.

Theresa (Portland OR)

-----Original Message-----

From: dkemnitz2000 [mailto:dkemnitz2000@...]

Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: NT and depression

---Isn't it necessary to gradually cut down on the sweeteners and

caffein? A few months ago I tried to stop lots of the sugars (pop and

white flour) and started getting fuzzy brain feeling, or so it seems

like the worst description of the feeling. So I gave up(started

eating white flour and drinking pop again) and that fuzzy feeling has

gone away. I'm not sure if the processed CHO's are the problem but I

know I consume lots of them relative to protein and fat . They provide

quick energy (what is it 9kcal/gram)on hot days when it's very

convenient to grab a pop instead of cooking. Any ideas for gradual

elimination of sugars? How about watering the sodas down? And if you

completely quit sugars/ processed CHO's OR reduce processed CHO's what

do you replace them with for " brain food " ? Are we back to

MCT,avocadoes, coconut, liver, whole milk,butter,squash,cucumbers,

raw meat, and eggs? I will add I wasn't eating all these to replace

pop and white flour a few months ago. The brain needs energy? to

function!! I quickly tired of that lousy feeling and I needed energy

cause I had/have lots of work to do. I've read this sight for 3 or

more months since last " trying " the reduced processed CHO's so I'll

do it again when the weather cools. I could be more informed now than

then. Thanks. Dennis

In @y..., " alecwood " <bill@o...> wrote:

> --- In @y..., " Katanne1890 " <katanne1890@m...>

wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > I have extensive experience in myself, and 100's of others, with

> seeing a complete turn around in depression, psychosis, neurosis,

and

> panic disorders, as well as physical disorders through nutrition.

> >

> > The main culprits are sugar, corn and grains (all grains).

> However, at a certain point other foods can also trigger problems.

> >

> > Sugar was first introduced to France in about the 1600's, and was

> only used as a drug, it also was known to be " mind altering. "

> >

> ><><<><><>Much of Kat's clipped here by Dennis<>><><><><><><><><><

> >

Hope this helps

> >

> > Kat

> > http://www.katking.com

> >

>

> If you are a real sugar addict, giving it up makes you feel awfull

> for a week to several weeks. Perhaps many people give up because

they

> think they are doing the wrong thing. You have to stick it out even

> if you need to call in sick at work. Sometimes you are weaker than

> the worst case of the flu.