How many carbs do you eat?

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

I started the NT and depression thread the other day. Last weekend I cut out

grains and just ate meat, fish, veggies, kefir, yogurt and coconut oil &

milk. After only two days (w/annoying but not too bad Herxheimer reaction) I

was feeling calmer and experiencing less digestive trouble. Then my boss

ordered a pizza and made me take some (when he's feeling generous he pouts if

you say no). I was gonna take some and throw it out when he wasn't looking

but I was hungry and ate it. Whammo, gas/bloating comes right back. I'm

thinking wheat may be a problem for me. So anyway, I got back on the wagon

and I haven't had any grains since. I feel more grounded now.

What I'm wondering is how many carbs do you eat? I just bought Life Without

Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72 a day. That's what, a cup and a half

of brown rice? Two potatoes? I'm sure I'll experiment but I'd be interested

to know what fellow listees do, since Sally Fallon doesn't specifically say

what proportion of fat/protein/carbos to eat.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I was just guessing about the rice, I don't know how many carbo grams there

are. It's just that I've always been a carbo hound, though I know they're

giving me trouble. It will be tough giving up many things, though I think

I'll be able to do it. Actually cutting down on potatoes will hurt a lot

more than losing rice or noodles.

In a message dated 8/9/2002 4:43:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> A cup and a half of brown rice sounds like a lot more than 72 grams of

> carbs to me, but I could be wrong -- I don't have any grains on hand to

> check. <g> At any rate, a gram is not a gram is not a gram, so to

> speak. Getting your grams from certain fruits and vegetables will likely

> give you far more nutrition than getting them from rice.

>

> I get some carbs from dairy, some from low-carb vegetables, some from a

> little fruit, mostly berries, which I mostly ferment. I personally have to

>

> eat much less than 72 grams of carbs per day, though.

[Guest guest]

-

>What I'm wondering is how many carbs do you eat? I just bought Life Without

>Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72 a day. That's what, a cup and a half

>of brown rice? Two potatoes?

A cup and a half of brown rice sounds like a lot more than 72 grams of

carbs to me, but I could be wrong -- I don't have any grains on hand to

check. <g> At any rate, a gram is not a gram is not a gram, so to

speak. Getting your grams from certain fruits and vegetables will likely

give you far more nutrition than getting them from rice.

I get some carbs from dairy, some from low-carb vegetables, some from a

little fruit, mostly berries, which I mostly ferment. I personally have to

eat much less than 72 grams of carbs per day, though.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>It's just that I've always been a carbo hound, though I know they're

>giving me trouble. It will be tough giving up many things, though I think

>I'll be able to do it. Actually cutting down on potatoes will hurt a lot

>more than losing rice or noodles.

I was a carbo hound too. The key isn't to look at it as some sort of test

of willpower, because you'll always lose in the end that way. Animal foods

are the key, particularly saturated animal fat. Reduce your carbs

(especially sugar and starches!) as you increase your fat intake and you

should find that you're not driven nuts by cravings. Don't just boost your

fat while expecting the carbs to take care of themselves, though, because

even with a lot of fat, starches and sugars can continue stimulating

appetite, and the resulting insulin surges will store instead of

metabolizing the fats. It's important to change them together. My

hypoglycemia and carb cravings have been about as bad as anyone's, but as

long as I eat plenty of fat, carbs simply aren't a problem.

-

[Guest guest]

according to Dr. Sears' listing of the " zone block " measurement system in an

appendix in the Soy Zone, a cup and a half of brown rice should be about 75g

of carbs, cooked. So was right on the mark.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I find that, eaten alone, soaked oats is the best carb source, which agrees

with a study I just read that found that out of complex carb " energy " bars,

oat-based had the lowest glycemic index. When I eat soaked wheat meal

pancakes, freshly ground in a coffee grinder with the bran included, soaked

for 24 hours in yoghurt, it seems I can even put syrup or honey on them and

not feel a carb overload but actually feel really good. I wonder if it's the

bran?

However, if I eat more than a piece or two very thinly sliced pieces of the

100% whole wheat sourdough bread I buy at the store, sometimes I feel a

little sluggish. Also, if I eat bananas, which are pretty sugar-dense, I eat

half of one with a meal, feeling a carb-overload if I eat a whole one,

especially if there is any other source of carbs in the meal.

I think it varies from person to person whether grains can be tolerated or

how much carbs to eat-- a good reason for Sally not to put a definitive

answer to it.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> I just bought Life Without Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72

> a day. That's what, a cup and a half of brown rice?

A cup and a half of cooked brown rice is about 68 g of carbs

according to USDA site:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/list_nut.pl

[Guest guest]

At 04:59 PM 8/9/02 -0400, you wrote:

>I was just guessing about the rice, I don't know how many carbo grams there

>are.  It's just that I've always been a carbo hound, though I know they're

>giving me trouble.  It will be tough giving up many things, though I think

>I'll be able to do it.  Actually cutting down on potatoes will hurt a lot

>more than losing rice or noodles.

>

I haven't given up potatoes and have fell in love with sweet potatoes with

none

of the effects I get if I have rice or pasta once in a while (family asking

less and less so my slower changes with them are working). The key is the

gluten and processing I think. Any mentioned if loaded with butter have no

effect. Grease your carbs as the book Lights Out says. Butter your veggies,

have cream or nut butter with your fruit. I don't see how carbs can be kept as

low as Life Without Bread says with NT's raw dairy providing a portion of the

animal fat and all the probiotics.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

At 04:34 PM 8/9/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>I started the NT and depression thread the other day. Last weekend I cut out

>grains and just ate meat, fish, veggies, kefir, yogurt and coconut oil &

>milk. After only two days (w/annoying but not too bad Herxheimer reaction) I

>was feeling calmer and experiencing less digestive trouble. Then my boss

>ordered a pizza and made me take some (when he's feeling generous he pouts if

>you say no). I was gonna take some and throw it out when he wasn't looking

>but I was hungry and ate it. Whammo, gas/bloating comes right back. I'm

>thinking wheat may be a problem for me. So anyway, I got back on the wagon

>and I haven't had any grains since. I feel more grounded now.

I did about the same thing. I ate some pizza (nothing else to eat all day,

and hey, they served it to me? what could I do?) and went into a major

anxiety attack for the rest of the day. A few other things will cause me to

bloat (raw non-gluten cookie dough being one of them!), but nothing has

ever effected my mood that bad. I wish I'd known when I was 17 how many of

my mood swings were from gluten! I have not had ANY mood swings since going GF.

>What I'm wondering is how many carbs do you eat? I just bought Life Without

>Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72 a day. That's what, a cup and a half

>of brown rice? Two potatoes? I'm sure I'll experiment but I'd be interested

>to know what fellow listees do, since Sally Fallon doesn't specifically say

>what proportion of fat/protein/carbos to eat.

Schwartzbein has some good thoughts about that ( " The Schwarzbein

Principle " ). Her take is that it is different for each person, but you DO

have to regulate how much you eat because most people can't trust their

appetites around carbs. I sure believe that, for me! Also that carbs, fat,

and protein should always be combined, which also works real well for me.

So here are my rules, for what they are worth:

1. Fill up on protein, fat, and lean vegies ( " lean " meaning " non-starchy " ).

2. Eat a regulated amount of carbs. For me that is 1/2 cup of something

starchy (potato, rice, gf pasta), or 1 cup of fruit. (that is about 30 g of

carb for rice, 13 g for potato, or 30 g for cherries: it's not exact, but

it's close enough for my reckoning).

3. Eat 4-5 meals a day.

Also keep in mind that fermented carbs aren't the same as non-fermented,

even though the carbs are still listed as carbs. They don't affect the

blood sugar the same way. I think. In kefir, for instance, the lactose is

converted to lactic acid and polysaccharides. The lactic acid goes to the

liver, and probably gets converted to glucose, but it doesn't seem to cause

the sugar highs (or lows) that I would get from eating glucose.

Polysaccharides probably get broken down into sugars too, but it's a slower

release kind of energy, I think. And fruit sugar acts different than cane

sugar or starch. And starches combined with protein and fat are different

that starches alone.

All of which boils down to you have to figure out what works for you. I try

to find *meals* that " set right " and I feel good after. I find if I don't

eat my kimchi with the meal then it doesn't set right too, so there is

probably an acid/base or probiotic component too.

One BIG thing: find foods you CAN eat in NOT-moderation. I make HUGE

salads, or a big bowl of tomato-feta-oliveoil-garlic-green bean thing, or a

big mess of fried greens. Half a potato makes a big mess of hash browns

too. We eat big chunks of chicken and smoked salmon. I don't miss the

starches: actually everyone around here eats them less now, since I've

added more to the meals. I think people " fill up " on starches primarily

because there is nothing else to eat! It has been hard finding ways to

balance the meals without relying on pasta or rice, but since we've started

doing that, the meals just taste a whole lot better.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> -

>

> >What I'm wondering is how many carbs do you eat? I just bought Life

Without

> >Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72 a day. That's what, a cup and a

half

> >of brown rice? Two potatoes?

>

> A cup and a half of brown rice sounds like a lot more than 72 grams of

> carbs to me, but I could be wrong --

A cup and a half of cooked brown rice is 68 gm of carb according to

Nutrition Analysis Tool at http://www.nat.uiuc.edu/nat.pdl

Kris

[Guest guest]

> I started the NT and depression thread the other day. Last weekend I cut

out

> grains and just ate meat, fish, veggies, kefir, yogurt and coconut oil &

> milk. After only two days (w/annoying but not too bad Herxheimer

reaction) I

> was feeling calmer and experiencing less digestive trouble. Then my boss

> ordered a pizza and made me take some (when he's feeling generous he pouts

if

> you say no). I was gonna take some and throw it out when he wasn't

looking

> but I was hungry and ate it. Whammo, gas/bloating comes right back. I'm

> thinking wheat may be a problem for me. So anyway, I got back on the

wagon

> and I haven't had any grains since. I feel more grounded now.

>

> What I'm wondering is how many carbs do you eat? I just bought Life

Without

> Bread, and Dr. Lutz suggests about 72 a day. That's what, a cup and a

half

> of brown rice? Two potatoes? I'm sure I'll experiment but I'd be

interested

> to know what fellow listees do, since Sally Fallon doesn't specifically

say

> what proportion of fat/protein/carbos to eat.

, I think it is more helpful to keep in mind what counts as a unit of

carb - usually thought of as 12 -15 gm of carb. That's 1 or 2 units at a

meal. That means that a quarter cup of cooked rice is a unit - at ~12 gm

Carb. 1 cup of uncooked brown rice has 142 gm carb!

Kris

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think the reason Sally doesn't give fat/protein/carb ratios could be

because different native groups had different ratios depending on where

they lived, climate, food available, etc... My understanding is that

Weston Price found healthy native-groups' diets had many things in

common, but a standard ratio of fat/protein/carbs wasn't one of them,

e.g., the Eskmos vs the Swiss mountain-folks.

> I'm sure I'll experiment but I'd be

> interested to know what fellow listees do, since Sally Fallon doesn't

> specifically say what proportion of fat/protein/carbos to eat.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

>

> I think the reason Sally doesn't give fat/protein/carb ratios could

be

> because different native groups had different ratios depending on

where

> they lived, climate, food available, etc... My understanding is

that

> Weston Price found healthy native-groups' diets had many things in

> common, but a standard ratio of fat/protein/carbs wasn't one of

them,

> e.g., the Eskmos vs the Swiss mountain-folks.

>

>

I once asked Sally if the WAPF made a recommendation on fat /

protein /carbs percentage. She replied that it is different for each

individual but made this general recommendation: 15% to 20% of

calories from protein. Pointing out that some people have problems

with vitamin A deficiency when protein exceeds 20%. Also 30% of

calories from fat are the MINIMUM, NOT the maximum, also saying that

many (or most people) need moreespecially if diabetic or some other

condition. Of course this is from memory. I didn't save the message.

After purchasing NT I found this on page 64. " The proportion of

animal foods, grains, dairy products, fruits and fats you choose will

depend on your ethnic heritage, your constitution, your age, your

occupation, the climate in which you live and your specific food

sensitivities and allergies. "

Although Sally or the foundation does not take an official position

on the subject there are articles on WAP web site by other

contributors, such as Tom Cowan M.D, that recommend following a low

carb diet for specific conditions such as this one for chronic

fatigue.

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/ask_chronic_fatigue.html

For hypothyroidism recommendation: " In particular pay attention to

the advice in Nourishing Traditions on soaking grains, using only

healthy fats and oils and avoiding goitrogens, such as soy foods and

raw cabbage. Avoiding excess carbohydrates, as suggested in The

Schwarzbein Principle, will also help wake up your metabolism. "

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/ask_hypo.htm

And this recommendation for cholesterol:

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/ask_cholesterol.html

As for me. I am still trying to figure it all out since changing my

diet a year ago. If Sally came here and posted a daily food log that

she personally follows it may not work for me.

>

>

> > I'm sure I'll experiment but I'd be

> > interested to know what fellow listees do, since Sally Fallon

doesn't

> > specifically say what proportion of fat/protein/carbos to eat.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>A cup and a half of cooked brown rice is about 68 g of carbs

>according to USDA site:

Oh, cooked! That makes sense. A cup and a half of dry rice is what I was

thinking of. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " L123 M123 " <lm324@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 8:14 AM

Subject: Re: How many carbs do you eat?

> My understanding is that

> Weston Price found healthy native-groups' diets had many things in

> common, but a standard ratio of fat/protein/carbs wasn't one of them,

> e.g., the Eskmos vs the Swiss mountain-folks.

That said, there seemed to be a strong correlation between carbohydrate

consumption and tooth decay. For example, the Swiss averaged about one

cavity per person, while in some of the African tribes it was lower than one

in every five people.