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Re: gingered carrots revisited

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At 11:17 PM 8/2/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Can I cut down on the salt used with the

>next jars that I make or will that up-set the culturing?

Some people use kefir whey and less salt. I use a bit of

vinegar too. The idea is to get the " good " bacteria going

as fast as possible, and salt is only one means to that end.

Adding acid works too, or juice from the last batch.

Mine isn't very salty, but I don't measure any more. My

kimchi is much less sour than the commercial kind, it is

almost " sweet/sour " , I think.

Heidi

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Thanks Heidi,

I know you don't measure, but aprox. how much is a bit of vinegar?

Do you reduce the amount of salt to vinegar then? I also have kefir, do

you know how much I should use in it instead of salt? I would think

you'd need a little pouch for it, or your kefir grains would be a pain

to pick out of the stuff.

Robin

<<Some people use kefir whey and less salt. I use a bit of vinegar too.

The idea is to get the " good " bacteria going as fast as possible, and

salt is only one means to that end. Adding acid works too, or juice from

the last batch.

Mine isn't very salty, but I don't measure any more. My kimchi is much

less sour than the commercial kind, it is almost " sweet/sour " , I think.

Heidi>>

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At 09:10 AM 8/3/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Thanks Heidi,

> I know you don't measure, but aprox. how much is a bit of vinegar?

About 1-2 Tbls. Vinegar per batch. (a batch is 2 heads of cabbage for me).

I salt the quartered

cabbage and let it set overnight to soften, then wash off the salt, so I

don't add more

salt later. The cabbage absorbs some of the salt, and it seems to be just

the right

amount. This is Nappa cabbage though, I don't think it would work as well

with regular

cabbage unless it was grated first.

The vinegar is purely an insurance. I don't think it is technically

necessary, but,

I've had no mold problems.

>Do you reduce the amount of salt to vinegar then? I also have kefir, do

>you know how much I should use in it instead of salt?

You just add some kefir *whey*. You can add the grains too, but I think the

whey

works better (it can permeate the mix). Likely half a cup per batch would

do fine.

Some people just pour it mixed with half water over the whole vegies. For

instance,

if you are making fermented green beans, you can cut the beans and put them

in a jar (no mashing). Then make a mix of water and whey (and salt if you

like, but

with the whey you probably don't need it). And close the jar.

The whey, if you use that much, is already acidic so you don't need vinegar.

I don't use whey, usually, because my kefir doesn't like to separate so it's

more work to get the whey.

Adding whey and salt and vinegar is a bit like wearing a belt and suspenders --

any of the three would 'work' by itself. If it does not 'work', then after

3 days

your mix will be foul smelling or moldy. If it does work, it will smell

heavenly

and sour. I try not to taste anything on day 2 (when it may be iffy). But

I haven't had anything " not work " so far except one batch of beets that

got a little mold (that one had no vinegar).

> I would think

>you'd need a little pouch for it, or your kefir grains would be a pain

>to pick out of the stuff.

I don't think it would be good for the grains either. Dom does use it

in his kefir-kraut though. I think the whey is easier. Kefir whey is

much better, I think, than yogurt-whey (tougher!).

Heidi

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Thanks Heidi,

In the NT recipes I did, they use both whey and salt. Do you think

that is to much together like, wearing a belt and suspenders at the same

time? My whey wasn't kefir whey and I'm not really sure how to obtain

kefir whey. I make kefir now and the taste has grown on me so much that

I can't imagine a day going by without drinking some. I did use napa in

my kimchee and let if sit overnight in some salt water. RInsed and

dried them the next day when I made the kimchee. It turned out well,

but I need to acquire a taste for the flavor of it like I have the

kefir.

Thanks again,

Robin

<<About 1-2 Tbls. Vinegar per batch. (a batch is 2 heads of cabbage for

me). I salt the quartered

cabbage and let it set overnight to soften, then wash off the salt, so I

don't add more

salt later. The cabbage absorbs some of the salt, and it seems to be

just the right

amount. This is Nappa cabbage though, I don't think it would work as

well with regular

cabbage unless it was grated first.

The vinegar is purely an insurance. I don't think it is technically

necessary, but,

I've had no mold problems.

>>Do you reduce the amount of salt to vinegar then? I also have kefir,

do you know how much I should use in it instead of salt?<<

You just add some kefir *whey*. You can add the grains too, but I think

the whey

works better (it can permeate the mix). Likely half a cup per batch

would do fine.

Some people just pour it mixed with half water over the whole vegies.

For instance,

if you are making fermented green beans, you can cut the beans and put

them in a jar (no mashing). Then make a mix of water and whey (and salt

if you like, but

with the whey you probably don't need it). And close the jar.

The whey, if you use that much, is already acidic so you don't need

vinegar. I don't use whey, usually, because my kefir doesn't like to

separate so it's more work to get the whey.

Adding whey and salt and vinegar is a bit like wearing a belt and

suspenders -- any of the three would 'work' by itself. If it does not

'work', then after 3 days

your mix will be foul smelling or moldy. If it does work, it will smell

heavenly

and sour. I try not to taste anything on day 2 (when it may be iffy).

But I haven't had anything " not work " so far except one batch of beets

that got a little mold (that one had no vinegar).

      >>I would think

you'd need a little pouch for it, or your kefir grains would be a pain

to pick out of the stuff.<<

I don't think it would be good for the grains either. Dom does use it in

his kefir-kraut though. I think the whey is easier. Kefir whey is much

better, I think, than yogurt-whey (tougher!).

Heidi>>

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> > I know you don't measure, but aprox. how much is a bit of

> vinegar?

>

> About 1-2 Tbls. Vinegar per batch. (a batch is 2 heads of cabbage

> for me).

Heidi,

What kind of vinegar do you use? I know that the only vinegar some

people will use (in general) is raw apple cider vinegar that has the

" mother. " Does it matter what kind?

Thanks,

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At 09:00 PM 8/3/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Thanks Heidi,

> In the NT recipes I did, they use both whey and salt. Do you think

>that is to much together like, wearing a belt and suspenders at the same

>time?

Robin:

Well, I DO use both. I use baking soda AND baking powder in some recipes too.

So shoot me. If it works, do it. It's decidedly not a moral issue and it's

not illegal either :-)

I'm not against salt though: some people are. In which case you need whey.

>My whey wasn't kefir whey and I'm not really sure how to obtain

>kefir whey. I make kefir now and the taste has grown on me so much that

>I can't imagine a day going by without drinking some.

If you have kefir, just let it set: the whey is on the bottom if you have

kefir that separates.

You can strain it with a cheesecloth, or sometimes a fine strainer, or if I

feel like

cheating, a coffee filter works. My kefir doesn't separate well, too many

polysaccharides,

but I love the taste. Where did you get the whey from, if you didn't get it

from kefir?

> I did use napa in

>my kimchee and let if sit overnight in some salt water. RInsed and

>dried them the next day when I made the kimchee. It turned out well,

>but I need to acquire a taste for the flavor of it like I have the

>kefir.

I've tried a few different vegie combos. My husband likes green beans

cultured. I like kimchi

with lots of garlic and ginger. But from a probiotic standpoint, if you

have kefir, you have

lots of good lactos. I just like kimchi, always have.

You don't have to dry the napa, just rinse it. There are lots of ways to make

lacto-vegies: I hear in Korea every person does it a different way.

Heidi

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At 10:59 PM 8/3/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi,

>What kind of vinegar do you use? I know that the only vinegar some

>people will use (in general) is raw apple cider vinegar that has the

> " mother. " Does it matter what kind?

>

>Thanks,

>

I'm just looking for a little " acid " , so I don't really care. Shoot,

the whole point of making kimchi is to get live bacteria. I think

lactobacilli are better bacteria than the aceto kind -- aceto bacteria

eat alchohol, and there is SOME of that in your gut, but not as

much as there is carb stuff.

I do try to avoid anything with preservatives in it though:

preservatives kill the germs, y'know.

Heidi

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