protein and insulin

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/02 7:49:39 AM, writes:

> So

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>if something like meat produces insulin, but does not produce

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>high or low blood sugar, then it must be producing the right amount

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>of insulin to balance glucagon or whatever.

Protein can provoke an insulin response, albeit not as high as most carbs.

However, protein also provokes a glucagon response. The identical effect of

of high blood amino acid levels on both glucagon and insulin secretion makes

sense if you consider the concomitant effects these two hormones have on

blood glucose levels. If during absorption of a protein rich meal the rise in

blood amino acids stimulated only insulin secretion hypoglycemia might

result. Because little carbohydrate is available for absorption following a

high protein meal, the amino acid induced increase in insulin secretion would

drive too much glucose into the cells, causing a sudden, inappropriate drop

in the plasma glucose level. However the simultaneous increase in glucagon

secretion elicited by elevated amino acid levels increases hepatic glucose

production. Since the hyperglycemic ellects of glucagon counteracct the

hypoglycemic effects of insulin, the net result is maintenance of normal

glucose levels during absorption of a high protein meal. The hormonal effects

of carbs and protein are not just the same. Remember too that most of the

time protein is accompanied by fat which provokes no insulin response. As

long as one has a functioning pancreas (beta cells) I can't imagine a problem

of too little insulin as a response to a low carb diet -- the body can 1)

convert incoming amino acids as well as the glycerol backbone of

Triglycerides to glucose and in response to a rise in blood glucose, the

pancreas will make insulin to put that glucose into cells; the brain doesn't

need insulin to make us of glucose 2) use ketones as another energy source

(they are not toxic no matter what you've read -- the heart, renal cortex and

resting muscle prefer them; recent evidence even suggests that the brain

likes them too. Low insulin is one the characteristics that distinguishes

long-lived people.

Namaste, Liz

<A HREF= " http://www.csun.edu/~ecm59556/Healthycarb/index.html " >

http://www.csun.edu/~ecm59556/Healthycarb/index.html</A>

[Guest guest]

Correct. And no one consumes a 100% carb diet as we have essential fats and essential amino acids we need. And, there are several studies (that I was part of) that showed a 40% drop in insulin while following a whole foods unrefined unprocessed higher carb diet with over 70% of the DB getting off their their medication for diabetes.However, that is not the point. We are discussing a CR person not an AL SAD eater.So, in a CR person, who is maintaining a low BMI and is in a neutral energy balance and/or a slight negative energy balance, store fat from a meal that is higher in carb.In your scenario, lets say I am consuming 1500 calories..in situation 1, I eat 3 meals of 500 calories. Situation B, I eat 5 meals of 300 calories.My RMR is 1200 and activity is 300 so burning 1500 calories. I

maintain a BMI of 18.5My average RMR + average Activity results in a per hour calorie burn of 62.5 calories (lets say 60 to make math easy)If I take one hour to eat a meal, at 3 - 500 calorie meals, there would be a temp excess of calories of 440 calories which would take me 7.3 hours to burn off. At 5-300 calorie meals, there would be a temporary excess of 240 calories, which would take me 4 hours to burn off.Either way, I am eating again before all the calories are burned off.At the end of the 24 hour day, me energy balance is even and i am still at a BMI of 18.5Why is one better or worse than the other (in a CR person).ThanksJeffFrom: citpeks

<citpeks@...>Subject: [ ] Protein and insulin Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 10:48 AM

Realistically, it is not possible to consider the protein insulin connection because a high protein diet with no carbohydrates or fat cannot be sustained. (See rabbit starvation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation)

However, the following article concludes "This study demonstrates that consumption of a diet with increased protein and a reduced CHO/protein ratio stabilizes blood glucose during nonabsorptive periods and reduces the postprandial insulin response."

Tony

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12566475

J Nutr. 2003 Feb;133(2):405-10.

Increased dietary protein modifies glucose and insulin homeostasis in adult women during weight loss.

Layman DK, Shiue H, Sather C, kson DJ, Baum J.

Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Urbana, IL 61801, USA. d-layman@...

Abstract

Amino acids interact with glucose metabolism both as carbon substrates and by recycling glucose carbon via alanine and glutamine; however, the effect of protein intake on glucose homeostasis during weight loss remains unknown. This study tests the hypothesis that a moderate increase in dietary protein with a corresponding reduction of carbohydrates (CHO) stabilizes fasting and postprandial blood glucose and insulin during weight loss. Adult women (n = 24; >15% above ideal body weight) were assigned to either a Protein Group [protein: 1.6 g/(kg. d); CHO <40% of energy] or CHO Group [protein: 0.8 g/(kg. d); CHO >55%]. Diets were equal in energy (7100 kJ/d) and fat (50 g/d). After 10 wk, the Protein Group lost 7.53 +/- 1.44 kg and the CHO Group lost 6.96 +/- 1.36 kg. Plasma amino acids, glucose and insulin were determined after a 12-h fast and 2 h after a 1.67 MJ test meal containing either 39 g CHO, 33 g protein and 13 g fat (Protein Group) or 57

g CHO, 12 g protein and 14 g fat (CHO Group). After 10 wk, subjects in the CHO Group had lower fasting (4.34 +/- 0.10 vs 4.89 +/- 0.11 mmol/L) and postprandial blood glucose (3.77 +/- 0.14 vs. 4.33 +/- 0.15 mmol/L) and an elevated insulin response to meals (207 +/- 21 vs. 75 +/- 18 pmol/L). This study demonstrates that consumption of a diet with increased protein and a reduced CHO/protein ratio stabilizes blood glucose during nonabsorptive periods and reduces the postprandial insulin response.

PMID: 12566475

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> & gt; & gt; Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates, by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored as fat.

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> & gt; While I understand the logic and application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

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> & gt; Protein which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in insulin as the insulin index showed.

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> & gt; Regards

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> & gt; Jeff

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